question on jeep dealer refusing service.
#161
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
Bob,
You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority of
buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem doing
so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or merely
wait for advertised specials.
My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as well,
and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying process. If
they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and make
it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers HAVE FUN
buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car salesman,
don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation because of
it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry attitude.
If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend time".
Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car dealers. I
never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
Think about it.
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>
> >Don't view
> >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> >It's not.
>
> Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
>
> ---
> Bob
You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority of
buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem doing
so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or merely
wait for advertised specials.
My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as well,
and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying process. If
they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and make
it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers HAVE FUN
buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car salesman,
don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation because of
it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry attitude.
If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend time".
Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car dealers. I
never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
Think about it.
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>
> >Don't view
> >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> >It's not.
>
> Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
>
> ---
> Bob
#162
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
L0nD0t.$t0we11 wrote:
> Roughly 4/17/04 14:28, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
>
>>It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
>>negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
>>that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
>>salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
>>negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
>>price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
>>negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
>>It's not.
>
>
> Then why is it I always want to just take the biggest baseball bat and
> smack the lying salesman and his manager over the head on my way to a
> competitor where none of these games are played and I *can* get a
> reasonable price.
>
>
>
>>There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
>>showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult.
>
>
> It is an insult to my intelligence and a waste of my time. And
> dealers who waste either can view the mistletoe on my coattails.
>
> You can bull as much as you want and claim this is all normal and
> proper... and it still is just the same bull *some* dealers try.
> Some don't. Those I patronize.
>
>
>
>
>>My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy.
>
>
> I always start light. It gets heavy as soon as I run into a
> bullshitting time waster.
>
>
>>Having less of an
>>adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable.
>
>
> Or I just avoid the dealers who waste my time. Makes it *very*
> enjoyable.
>
>
>>Also
>>consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
>>process
>
>
> Ah yes. The old head games. Suspect you would never sell me a car
> even if you offered it at 20% under your cost.
>
>
> by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
>
>>finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
>>Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
>>dealer.
>
>
> Why is that? I go in, I look at a few cars. If I'm interested, I
> begin the buying process. I know my freaking needs as well as
> preferences long before I start looking around. And if I *am*
> just looking around, I have the courtesy to tell the salesman
> so... and am willing to go hunt them down if I happen to think
> of a question.
>
> Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
>
>>If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
>>plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
>>in the newspaper.
>
>
> Oddly enough, it is my freaking money, and I am extremely aware
> of this. If you want it, you'd better figure out quickly that
> I'll spend serious money for what I want, but won't put up with
> head games for more than about the first 5 seconds. And I pretty
> have narrowed my choices down before I arrive and am already aware
> pretty much of how lively those particular models are moving off
> your lots and what manufacturer rebates are being offered, etc.
> before I walk in. And know already what my bank or credit union is
> willing to loan me for how much...on those rare occasions where I
> don't pay cash.
>
> And I'm not looking for friends...although I've become very good
> friends with particular dealer salesmen, repeat buying etc. And
> have followed salesmen to competitors where the vehicles are
> roughly similar. I don't really dislike car salesmen in general,
> just a far too common subset of same.
>
>
Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> Roughly 4/17/04 14:28, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
>
>>It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
>>negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
>>that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
>>salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
>>negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
>>price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
>>negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
>>It's not.
>
>
> Then why is it I always want to just take the biggest baseball bat and
> smack the lying salesman and his manager over the head on my way to a
> competitor where none of these games are played and I *can* get a
> reasonable price.
>
>
>
>>There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
>>showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult.
>
>
> It is an insult to my intelligence and a waste of my time. And
> dealers who waste either can view the mistletoe on my coattails.
>
> You can bull as much as you want and claim this is all normal and
> proper... and it still is just the same bull *some* dealers try.
> Some don't. Those I patronize.
>
>
>
>
>>My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy.
>
>
> I always start light. It gets heavy as soon as I run into a
> bullshitting time waster.
>
>
>>Having less of an
>>adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable.
>
>
> Or I just avoid the dealers who waste my time. Makes it *very*
> enjoyable.
>
>
>>Also
>>consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
>>process
>
>
> Ah yes. The old head games. Suspect you would never sell me a car
> even if you offered it at 20% under your cost.
>
>
> by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
>
>>finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
>>Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
>>dealer.
>
>
> Why is that? I go in, I look at a few cars. If I'm interested, I
> begin the buying process. I know my freaking needs as well as
> preferences long before I start looking around. And if I *am*
> just looking around, I have the courtesy to tell the salesman
> so... and am willing to go hunt them down if I happen to think
> of a question.
>
> Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
>
>>If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
>>plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
>>in the newspaper.
>
>
> Oddly enough, it is my freaking money, and I am extremely aware
> of this. If you want it, you'd better figure out quickly that
> I'll spend serious money for what I want, but won't put up with
> head games for more than about the first 5 seconds. And I pretty
> have narrowed my choices down before I arrive and am already aware
> pretty much of how lively those particular models are moving off
> your lots and what manufacturer rebates are being offered, etc.
> before I walk in. And know already what my bank or credit union is
> willing to loan me for how much...on those rare occasions where I
> don't pay cash.
>
> And I'm not looking for friends...although I've become very good
> friends with particular dealer salesmen, repeat buying etc. And
> have followed salesmen to competitors where the vehicles are
> roughly similar. I don't really dislike car salesmen in general,
> just a far too common subset of same.
>
>
Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
#163
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
L0nD0t.$t0we11 wrote:
> Roughly 4/17/04 14:28, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
>
>>It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
>>negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
>>that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
>>salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
>>negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
>>price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
>>negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
>>It's not.
>
>
> Then why is it I always want to just take the biggest baseball bat and
> smack the lying salesman and his manager over the head on my way to a
> competitor where none of these games are played and I *can* get a
> reasonable price.
>
>
>
>>There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
>>showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult.
>
>
> It is an insult to my intelligence and a waste of my time. And
> dealers who waste either can view the mistletoe on my coattails.
>
> You can bull as much as you want and claim this is all normal and
> proper... and it still is just the same bull *some* dealers try.
> Some don't. Those I patronize.
>
>
>
>
>>My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy.
>
>
> I always start light. It gets heavy as soon as I run into a
> bullshitting time waster.
>
>
>>Having less of an
>>adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable.
>
>
> Or I just avoid the dealers who waste my time. Makes it *very*
> enjoyable.
>
>
>>Also
>>consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
>>process
>
>
> Ah yes. The old head games. Suspect you would never sell me a car
> even if you offered it at 20% under your cost.
>
>
> by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
>
>>finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
>>Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
>>dealer.
>
>
> Why is that? I go in, I look at a few cars. If I'm interested, I
> begin the buying process. I know my freaking needs as well as
> preferences long before I start looking around. And if I *am*
> just looking around, I have the courtesy to tell the salesman
> so... and am willing to go hunt them down if I happen to think
> of a question.
>
> Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
>
>>If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
>>plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
>>in the newspaper.
>
>
> Oddly enough, it is my freaking money, and I am extremely aware
> of this. If you want it, you'd better figure out quickly that
> I'll spend serious money for what I want, but won't put up with
> head games for more than about the first 5 seconds. And I pretty
> have narrowed my choices down before I arrive and am already aware
> pretty much of how lively those particular models are moving off
> your lots and what manufacturer rebates are being offered, etc.
> before I walk in. And know already what my bank or credit union is
> willing to loan me for how much...on those rare occasions where I
> don't pay cash.
>
> And I'm not looking for friends...although I've become very good
> friends with particular dealer salesmen, repeat buying etc. And
> have followed salesmen to competitors where the vehicles are
> roughly similar. I don't really dislike car salesmen in general,
> just a far too common subset of same.
>
>
Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> Roughly 4/17/04 14:28, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
>
>>It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
>>negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
>>that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
>>salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
>>negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
>>price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
>>negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
>>It's not.
>
>
> Then why is it I always want to just take the biggest baseball bat and
> smack the lying salesman and his manager over the head on my way to a
> competitor where none of these games are played and I *can* get a
> reasonable price.
>
>
>
>>There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
>>showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult.
>
>
> It is an insult to my intelligence and a waste of my time. And
> dealers who waste either can view the mistletoe on my coattails.
>
> You can bull as much as you want and claim this is all normal and
> proper... and it still is just the same bull *some* dealers try.
> Some don't. Those I patronize.
>
>
>
>
>>My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy.
>
>
> I always start light. It gets heavy as soon as I run into a
> bullshitting time waster.
>
>
>>Having less of an
>>adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable.
>
>
> Or I just avoid the dealers who waste my time. Makes it *very*
> enjoyable.
>
>
>>Also
>>consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
>>process
>
>
> Ah yes. The old head games. Suspect you would never sell me a car
> even if you offered it at 20% under your cost.
>
>
> by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
>
>>finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
>>Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
>>dealer.
>
>
> Why is that? I go in, I look at a few cars. If I'm interested, I
> begin the buying process. I know my freaking needs as well as
> preferences long before I start looking around. And if I *am*
> just looking around, I have the courtesy to tell the salesman
> so... and am willing to go hunt them down if I happen to think
> of a question.
>
> Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
>
>>If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
>>plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
>>in the newspaper.
>
>
> Oddly enough, it is my freaking money, and I am extremely aware
> of this. If you want it, you'd better figure out quickly that
> I'll spend serious money for what I want, but won't put up with
> head games for more than about the first 5 seconds. And I pretty
> have narrowed my choices down before I arrive and am already aware
> pretty much of how lively those particular models are moving off
> your lots and what manufacturer rebates are being offered, etc.
> before I walk in. And know already what my bank or credit union is
> willing to loan me for how much...on those rare occasions where I
> don't pay cash.
>
> And I'm not looking for friends...although I've become very good
> friends with particular dealer salesmen, repeat buying etc. And
> have followed salesmen to competitors where the vehicles are
> roughly similar. I don't really dislike car salesmen in general,
> just a far too common subset of same.
>
>
Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
#164
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
L0nD0t.$t0we11 wrote:
> Roughly 4/17/04 14:28, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
>
>>It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
>>negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
>>that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
>>salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
>>negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
>>price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
>>negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
>>It's not.
>
>
> Then why is it I always want to just take the biggest baseball bat and
> smack the lying salesman and his manager over the head on my way to a
> competitor where none of these games are played and I *can* get a
> reasonable price.
>
>
>
>>There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
>>showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult.
>
>
> It is an insult to my intelligence and a waste of my time. And
> dealers who waste either can view the mistletoe on my coattails.
>
> You can bull as much as you want and claim this is all normal and
> proper... and it still is just the same bull *some* dealers try.
> Some don't. Those I patronize.
>
>
>
>
>>My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy.
>
>
> I always start light. It gets heavy as soon as I run into a
> bullshitting time waster.
>
>
>>Having less of an
>>adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable.
>
>
> Or I just avoid the dealers who waste my time. Makes it *very*
> enjoyable.
>
>
>>Also
>>consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
>>process
>
>
> Ah yes. The old head games. Suspect you would never sell me a car
> even if you offered it at 20% under your cost.
>
>
> by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
>
>>finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
>>Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
>>dealer.
>
>
> Why is that? I go in, I look at a few cars. If I'm interested, I
> begin the buying process. I know my freaking needs as well as
> preferences long before I start looking around. And if I *am*
> just looking around, I have the courtesy to tell the salesman
> so... and am willing to go hunt them down if I happen to think
> of a question.
>
> Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
>
>>If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
>>plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
>>in the newspaper.
>
>
> Oddly enough, it is my freaking money, and I am extremely aware
> of this. If you want it, you'd better figure out quickly that
> I'll spend serious money for what I want, but won't put up with
> head games for more than about the first 5 seconds. And I pretty
> have narrowed my choices down before I arrive and am already aware
> pretty much of how lively those particular models are moving off
> your lots and what manufacturer rebates are being offered, etc.
> before I walk in. And know already what my bank or credit union is
> willing to loan me for how much...on those rare occasions where I
> don't pay cash.
>
> And I'm not looking for friends...although I've become very good
> friends with particular dealer salesmen, repeat buying etc. And
> have followed salesmen to competitors where the vehicles are
> roughly similar. I don't really dislike car salesmen in general,
> just a far too common subset of same.
>
>
Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> Roughly 4/17/04 14:28, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
>
>>It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
>>negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
>>that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
>>salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
>>negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
>>price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
>>negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
>>It's not.
>
>
> Then why is it I always want to just take the biggest baseball bat and
> smack the lying salesman and his manager over the head on my way to a
> competitor where none of these games are played and I *can* get a
> reasonable price.
>
>
>
>>There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
>>showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult.
>
>
> It is an insult to my intelligence and a waste of my time. And
> dealers who waste either can view the mistletoe on my coattails.
>
> You can bull as much as you want and claim this is all normal and
> proper... and it still is just the same bull *some* dealers try.
> Some don't. Those I patronize.
>
>
>
>
>>My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy.
>
>
> I always start light. It gets heavy as soon as I run into a
> bullshitting time waster.
>
>
>>Having less of an
>>adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable.
>
>
> Or I just avoid the dealers who waste my time. Makes it *very*
> enjoyable.
>
>
>>Also
>>consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
>>process
>
>
> Ah yes. The old head games. Suspect you would never sell me a car
> even if you offered it at 20% under your cost.
>
>
> by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
>
>>finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
>>Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
>>dealer.
>
>
> Why is that? I go in, I look at a few cars. If I'm interested, I
> begin the buying process. I know my freaking needs as well as
> preferences long before I start looking around. And if I *am*
> just looking around, I have the courtesy to tell the salesman
> so... and am willing to go hunt them down if I happen to think
> of a question.
>
> Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
>
>>If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
>>plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
>>in the newspaper.
>
>
> Oddly enough, it is my freaking money, and I am extremely aware
> of this. If you want it, you'd better figure out quickly that
> I'll spend serious money for what I want, but won't put up with
> head games for more than about the first 5 seconds. And I pretty
> have narrowed my choices down before I arrive and am already aware
> pretty much of how lively those particular models are moving off
> your lots and what manufacturer rebates are being offered, etc.
> before I walk in. And know already what my bank or credit union is
> willing to loan me for how much...on those rare occasions where I
> don't pay cash.
>
> And I'm not looking for friends...although I've become very good
> friends with particular dealer salesmen, repeat buying etc. And
> have followed salesmen to competitors where the vehicles are
> roughly similar. I don't really dislike car salesmen in general,
> just a far too common subset of same.
>
>
Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
#165
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
L0nD0t.$t0we11 wrote:
> Roughly 4/17/04 14:28, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
>
>>It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
>>negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
>>that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
>>salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
>>negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
>>price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
>>negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
>>It's not.
>
>
> Then why is it I always want to just take the biggest baseball bat and
> smack the lying salesman and his manager over the head on my way to a
> competitor where none of these games are played and I *can* get a
> reasonable price.
>
>
>
>>There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
>>showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult.
>
>
> It is an insult to my intelligence and a waste of my time. And
> dealers who waste either can view the mistletoe on my coattails.
>
> You can bull as much as you want and claim this is all normal and
> proper... and it still is just the same bull *some* dealers try.
> Some don't. Those I patronize.
>
>
>
>
>>My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy.
>
>
> I always start light. It gets heavy as soon as I run into a
> bullshitting time waster.
>
>
>>Having less of an
>>adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable.
>
>
> Or I just avoid the dealers who waste my time. Makes it *very*
> enjoyable.
>
>
>>Also
>>consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
>>process
>
>
> Ah yes. The old head games. Suspect you would never sell me a car
> even if you offered it at 20% under your cost.
>
>
> by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
>
>>finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
>>Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
>>dealer.
>
>
> Why is that? I go in, I look at a few cars. If I'm interested, I
> begin the buying process. I know my freaking needs as well as
> preferences long before I start looking around. And if I *am*
> just looking around, I have the courtesy to tell the salesman
> so... and am willing to go hunt them down if I happen to think
> of a question.
>
> Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
>
>>If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
>>plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
>>in the newspaper.
>
>
> Oddly enough, it is my freaking money, and I am extremely aware
> of this. If you want it, you'd better figure out quickly that
> I'll spend serious money for what I want, but won't put up with
> head games for more than about the first 5 seconds. And I pretty
> have narrowed my choices down before I arrive and am already aware
> pretty much of how lively those particular models are moving off
> your lots and what manufacturer rebates are being offered, etc.
> before I walk in. And know already what my bank or credit union is
> willing to loan me for how much...on those rare occasions where I
> don't pay cash.
>
> And I'm not looking for friends...although I've become very good
> friends with particular dealer salesmen, repeat buying etc. And
> have followed salesmen to competitors where the vehicles are
> roughly similar. I don't really dislike car salesmen in general,
> just a far too common subset of same.
>
>
Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> Roughly 4/17/04 14:28, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
>
>>It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
>>negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
>>that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
>>salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
>>negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
>>price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
>>negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
>>It's not.
>
>
> Then why is it I always want to just take the biggest baseball bat and
> smack the lying salesman and his manager over the head on my way to a
> competitor where none of these games are played and I *can* get a
> reasonable price.
>
>
>
>>There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
>>showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult.
>
>
> It is an insult to my intelligence and a waste of my time. And
> dealers who waste either can view the mistletoe on my coattails.
>
> You can bull as much as you want and claim this is all normal and
> proper... and it still is just the same bull *some* dealers try.
> Some don't. Those I patronize.
>
>
>
>
>>My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy.
>
>
> I always start light. It gets heavy as soon as I run into a
> bullshitting time waster.
>
>
>>Having less of an
>>adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable.
>
>
> Or I just avoid the dealers who waste my time. Makes it *very*
> enjoyable.
>
>
>>Also
>>consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
>>process
>
>
> Ah yes. The old head games. Suspect you would never sell me a car
> even if you offered it at 20% under your cost.
>
>
> by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
>
>>finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
>>Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
>>dealer.
>
>
> Why is that? I go in, I look at a few cars. If I'm interested, I
> begin the buying process. I know my freaking needs as well as
> preferences long before I start looking around. And if I *am*
> just looking around, I have the courtesy to tell the salesman
> so... and am willing to go hunt them down if I happen to think
> of a question.
>
> Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
>
>>If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
>>plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
>>in the newspaper.
>
>
> Oddly enough, it is my freaking money, and I am extremely aware
> of this. If you want it, you'd better figure out quickly that
> I'll spend serious money for what I want, but won't put up with
> head games for more than about the first 5 seconds. And I pretty
> have narrowed my choices down before I arrive and am already aware
> pretty much of how lively those particular models are moving off
> your lots and what manufacturer rebates are being offered, etc.
> before I walk in. And know already what my bank or credit union is
> willing to loan me for how much...on those rare occasions where I
> don't pay cash.
>
> And I'm not looking for friends...although I've become very good
> friends with particular dealer salesmen, repeat buying etc. And
> have followed salesmen to competitors where the vehicles are
> roughly similar. I don't really dislike car salesmen in general,
> just a far too common subset of same.
>
>
Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
#166
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
A professional car salesman? Are amateur leagues? Can you not be in the
Olympics now cuz you've gone pro?!
Sorry....just read it and it sounded funny!!
You have to expect people to be quite defensive when dealing with salesmen!
Cuz basically they know they're going to be more than they should for the
vehicle.
sb
"cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> Bob,
>
> You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority of
> buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
doing
> so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or merely
> wait for advertised specials.
>
> My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
> negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as
well,
> and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying process.
If
> they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and
make
> it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers HAVE
FUN
> buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
> dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
>
> If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car salesman,
> don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation because
of
> it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry attitude.
> If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend time".
>
> Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car dealers.
I
> never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
>
> Think about it.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
> "RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> > <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Don't view
> > >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> > >It's not.
> >
> > Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
> >
> > ---
> > Bob
>
>
Olympics now cuz you've gone pro?!
Sorry....just read it and it sounded funny!!
You have to expect people to be quite defensive when dealing with salesmen!
Cuz basically they know they're going to be more than they should for the
vehicle.
sb
"cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> Bob,
>
> You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority of
> buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
doing
> so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or merely
> wait for advertised specials.
>
> My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
> negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as
well,
> and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying process.
If
> they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and
make
> it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers HAVE
FUN
> buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
> dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
>
> If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car salesman,
> don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation because
of
> it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry attitude.
> If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend time".
>
> Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car dealers.
I
> never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
>
> Think about it.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
> "RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> > <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Don't view
> > >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> > >It's not.
> >
> > Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
> >
> > ---
> > Bob
>
>
#167
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
A professional car salesman? Are amateur leagues? Can you not be in the
Olympics now cuz you've gone pro?!
Sorry....just read it and it sounded funny!!
You have to expect people to be quite defensive when dealing with salesmen!
Cuz basically they know they're going to be more than they should for the
vehicle.
sb
"cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> Bob,
>
> You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority of
> buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
doing
> so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or merely
> wait for advertised specials.
>
> My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
> negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as
well,
> and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying process.
If
> they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and
make
> it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers HAVE
FUN
> buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
> dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
>
> If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car salesman,
> don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation because
of
> it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry attitude.
> If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend time".
>
> Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car dealers.
I
> never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
>
> Think about it.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
> "RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> > <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Don't view
> > >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> > >It's not.
> >
> > Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
> >
> > ---
> > Bob
>
>
Olympics now cuz you've gone pro?!
Sorry....just read it and it sounded funny!!
You have to expect people to be quite defensive when dealing with salesmen!
Cuz basically they know they're going to be more than they should for the
vehicle.
sb
"cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> Bob,
>
> You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority of
> buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
doing
> so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or merely
> wait for advertised specials.
>
> My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
> negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as
well,
> and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying process.
If
> they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and
make
> it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers HAVE
FUN
> buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
> dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
>
> If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car salesman,
> don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation because
of
> it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry attitude.
> If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend time".
>
> Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car dealers.
I
> never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
>
> Think about it.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
> "RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> > <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Don't view
> > >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> > >It's not.
> >
> > Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
> >
> > ---
> > Bob
>
>
#168
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
A professional car salesman? Are amateur leagues? Can you not be in the
Olympics now cuz you've gone pro?!
Sorry....just read it and it sounded funny!!
You have to expect people to be quite defensive when dealing with salesmen!
Cuz basically they know they're going to be more than they should for the
vehicle.
sb
"cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> Bob,
>
> You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority of
> buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
doing
> so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or merely
> wait for advertised specials.
>
> My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
> negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as
well,
> and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying process.
If
> they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and
make
> it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers HAVE
FUN
> buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
> dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
>
> If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car salesman,
> don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation because
of
> it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry attitude.
> If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend time".
>
> Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car dealers.
I
> never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
>
> Think about it.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
> "RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> > <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Don't view
> > >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> > >It's not.
> >
> > Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
> >
> > ---
> > Bob
>
>
Olympics now cuz you've gone pro?!
Sorry....just read it and it sounded funny!!
You have to expect people to be quite defensive when dealing with salesmen!
Cuz basically they know they're going to be more than they should for the
vehicle.
sb
"cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> Bob,
>
> You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority of
> buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
doing
> so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or merely
> wait for advertised specials.
>
> My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
> negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as
well,
> and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying process.
If
> they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and
make
> it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers HAVE
FUN
> buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
> dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
>
> If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car salesman,
> don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation because
of
> it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry attitude.
> If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend time".
>
> Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car dealers.
I
> never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
>
> Think about it.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
> "RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> > <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Don't view
> > >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> > >It's not.
> >
> > Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
> >
> > ---
> > Bob
>
>
#169
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
A professional car salesman? Are amateur leagues? Can you not be in the
Olympics now cuz you've gone pro?!
Sorry....just read it and it sounded funny!!
You have to expect people to be quite defensive when dealing with salesmen!
Cuz basically they know they're going to be more than they should for the
vehicle.
sb
"cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> Bob,
>
> You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority of
> buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
doing
> so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or merely
> wait for advertised specials.
>
> My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
> negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as
well,
> and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying process.
If
> they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and
make
> it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers HAVE
FUN
> buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
> dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
>
> If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car salesman,
> don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation because
of
> it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry attitude.
> If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend time".
>
> Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car dealers.
I
> never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
>
> Think about it.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
> "RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> > <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Don't view
> > >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> > >It's not.
> >
> > Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
> >
> > ---
> > Bob
>
>
Olympics now cuz you've gone pro?!
Sorry....just read it and it sounded funny!!
You have to expect people to be quite defensive when dealing with salesmen!
Cuz basically they know they're going to be more than they should for the
vehicle.
sb
"cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> Bob,
>
> You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority of
> buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
doing
> so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or merely
> wait for advertised specials.
>
> My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
> negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as
well,
> and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying process.
If
> they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and
make
> it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers HAVE
FUN
> buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
> dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
>
> If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car salesman,
> don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation because
of
> it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry attitude.
> If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend time".
>
> Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car dealers.
I
> never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
>
> Think about it.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
> "RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> > <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Don't view
> > >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> > >It's not.
> >
> > Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
> >
> > ---
> > Bob
>
>
#170
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
In article <Vcngc.16958$0b4.23543@attbi_s51>, Kevin <Kevin@el.net> wrote:
<yawn deleted>
>
> Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
>Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
>
Bull. The salesman loves it. The sales managers hate it because it's clearly
known that the saleman has no control over the managers price until this
happens. Instant TO to either get what you want or you don't waste yours or
anybody elses time... That's the way to do it.
--
<html><form><input type crash></form></html>
nospam@zero.com Replace nospam with jetta to reply via e-mail
<yawn deleted>
>
> Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
>Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
>
Bull. The salesman loves it. The sales managers hate it because it's clearly
known that the saleman has no control over the managers price until this
happens. Instant TO to either get what you want or you don't waste yours or
anybody elses time... That's the way to do it.
--
<html><form><input type crash></form></html>
nospam@zero.com Replace nospam with jetta to reply via e-mail