question on jeep dealer refusing service.
#181
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
And if you try to put a customer at ease....the neurotic ones just start
thinking you're trying to butter them up for the kill!!
I suppose it's any type of comission sales job (real estate/etc.) that would
do it.
If you're good at it you'll do good....but I've dealt with more pushy real
estate agents than car dealers.
The horrible part is when you get a salesperson that doesn't understand what
NO is.
Sure there are hesitant shoppers....and some do fall for coersion....but
there is beating a sale out of a person too (borderline harassment!).
I remember (don't mean to run on with this) walking in to a furniture
store - ya a furniture store! - and I SWEAR, every single salesperson in
that place (12 or so) locked eyes with me and you could see them circling
like sharks man. They would approach and I'd go the other way....they'd try
to cut me off and I'd squeeze between some tables to go the other....
then I'd put a dirty look on my face and try to fend them off with my shear
will power (and the look of constipation) and althought they backed off...I
think it was the Alpha's that still approached and sniffed me out!
I'm still traumatized over that!! haha
And because of the sleaze feeling I got, I left with only time lost and no
furniture bought!!
OH, it's like going to a club and you watch the hot chick come in....every
single guy stares her down and drools....funny stuff!!
"cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:5eqdnXEd9dXcPR_dRVn-sQ@bresnan.com...
> Yeah, I guess that "professional car salesman" does sound funny. :-)
Guys
> who've been selling cars for a year or longer would know what I'm talking
> about though. If you've survived that long in car sales, you are truly a
> professional.
>
> There is a high turnover in car sales. Not many people can handle the
high
> pressure, frequent rejection, and often unpredictable earnings of a
straight
> commission sales position. You'll talk to a lot of people who "once sold
> cars". In most cases, they did it unsuccessfully for 2-4 months. Due to
> the high turnover, there are some mediocre car 'salesman' out there with
> very little sales experience, terribly inadequate product knowledge, and
bad
> attitudes.
>
> Some people do come into my car store with a defensive or confrontational
> attitude. Sometimes my biggest challenge is establishing rapport and
> putting the customer at ease.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
>
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:byogc.107656$2oI1.38811@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com...
> > A professional car salesman? Are amateur leagues? Can you not be in
the
> > Olympics now cuz you've gone pro?!
> >
> > Sorry....just read it and it sounded funny!!
> >
> > You have to expect people to be quite defensive when dealing with
> salesmen!
> > Cuz basically they know they're going to be more than they should for
the
> > vehicle.
> >
> > sb
> > "cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
> > news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority
> of
> > > buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
> > doing
> > > so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or
> merely
> > > wait for advertised specials.
> > >
> > > My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
> > > negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as
> > well,
> > > and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying
process.
> > If
> > > they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and
> > make
> > > it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers
HAVE
> > FUN
> > > buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
> > > dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
> > >
> > > If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car
salesman,
> > > don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation
because
> > of
> > > it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry
> attitude.
> > > If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend
> time".
> > >
> > > Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car
> dealers.
> > I
> > > never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
> > >
> > > Think about it.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Dave Rose
> > > Cactus Cowboy
> > > Big Wonderful Wyoming
> > > '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> > > '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> > > '98 XJ Sport
> > > O|||||||O
> > >
> > > "RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> > > > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> > > > <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Don't view
> > > > >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing,
> etc.....
> > > > >It's not.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
thinking you're trying to butter them up for the kill!!
I suppose it's any type of comission sales job (real estate/etc.) that would
do it.
If you're good at it you'll do good....but I've dealt with more pushy real
estate agents than car dealers.
The horrible part is when you get a salesperson that doesn't understand what
NO is.
Sure there are hesitant shoppers....and some do fall for coersion....but
there is beating a sale out of a person too (borderline harassment!).
I remember (don't mean to run on with this) walking in to a furniture
store - ya a furniture store! - and I SWEAR, every single salesperson in
that place (12 or so) locked eyes with me and you could see them circling
like sharks man. They would approach and I'd go the other way....they'd try
to cut me off and I'd squeeze between some tables to go the other....
then I'd put a dirty look on my face and try to fend them off with my shear
will power (and the look of constipation) and althought they backed off...I
think it was the Alpha's that still approached and sniffed me out!
I'm still traumatized over that!! haha
And because of the sleaze feeling I got, I left with only time lost and no
furniture bought!!
OH, it's like going to a club and you watch the hot chick come in....every
single guy stares her down and drools....funny stuff!!
"cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:5eqdnXEd9dXcPR_dRVn-sQ@bresnan.com...
> Yeah, I guess that "professional car salesman" does sound funny. :-)
Guys
> who've been selling cars for a year or longer would know what I'm talking
> about though. If you've survived that long in car sales, you are truly a
> professional.
>
> There is a high turnover in car sales. Not many people can handle the
high
> pressure, frequent rejection, and often unpredictable earnings of a
straight
> commission sales position. You'll talk to a lot of people who "once sold
> cars". In most cases, they did it unsuccessfully for 2-4 months. Due to
> the high turnover, there are some mediocre car 'salesman' out there with
> very little sales experience, terribly inadequate product knowledge, and
bad
> attitudes.
>
> Some people do come into my car store with a defensive or confrontational
> attitude. Sometimes my biggest challenge is establishing rapport and
> putting the customer at ease.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
>
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:byogc.107656$2oI1.38811@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com...
> > A professional car salesman? Are amateur leagues? Can you not be in
the
> > Olympics now cuz you've gone pro?!
> >
> > Sorry....just read it and it sounded funny!!
> >
> > You have to expect people to be quite defensive when dealing with
> salesmen!
> > Cuz basically they know they're going to be more than they should for
the
> > vehicle.
> >
> > sb
> > "cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
> > news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority
> of
> > > buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
> > doing
> > > so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or
> merely
> > > wait for advertised specials.
> > >
> > > My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
> > > negotiator and I enjoy it. Most of my customers enjoy negotiating as
> > well,
> > > and readily accept that it's part of the traditional car buying
process.
> > If
> > > they're clearly uncomfortable, I'll do my best to put them at ease and
> > make
> > > it a fast and painless process. The vast majority of my customers
HAVE
> > FUN
> > > buying a vehicle from me and my store. Negotiating is fun when you're
> > > dealing with a professional like me and you have the right attitude.
> > >
> > > If you've had a prior bad experience with a car dealer or car
salesman,
> > > don't condemn the entire auto industry or the art of negotiation
because
> > of
> > > it. Don't go into a car store with a confrontational and angry
> attitude.
> > > If you do, you're sure to experience another "horrible way to spend
> time".
> > >
> > > Before I got into car sales, I bought numerous vehicles from car
> dealers.
> > I
> > > never had a bad experience. Why? My positive attitude as a buyer.
> > >
> > > Think about it.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Dave Rose
> > > Cactus Cowboy
> > > Big Wonderful Wyoming
> > > '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> > > '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> > > '98 XJ Sport
> > > O|||||||O
> > >
> > > "RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:men380ht4qjkcrivmhjtub92cf12ue049h@4ax.com...
> > > > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:28:50 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> > > > <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Don't view
> > > > >negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing,
> etc.....
> > > > >It's not.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, it is. And it is a horrible way to spend time.
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
#182
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
As a car salesman, there's nothing I like more than dealing with a well
informed customer. A copy of dealer invoice? Great!! I'll take that
anyday over the unrealistic knucklehead who tries to negiotate with ankle
shots $3,000 below our cost and then walks out in a huff, muttering
obscenities.
With the invoice shopper at least I know:
*I most likely have a serious buyer who knows exactly what they want.
*It'll probably be a skinny deal, but it'll be a deal if I do my job right.
*We'll probably get this deal done FAST!
Gotta love it!
BTW, I've held some very nice grosses and made sizeable commissions on
"invoice buyers" who've been extremely satisified with their purchase. It's
not always money!
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"Peter Parker" <nospam@zero.com> wrote in message
news:4082872c_2@nntp2.nac.net...
> In article <Vcngc.16958$0b4.23543@attbi_s51>, Kevin <Kevin@el.net> wrote:
> <yawn deleted>
> >
> > Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
> >Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> >
>
> Bull. The salesman loves it. The sales managers hate it because it's
clearly
> known that the saleman has no control over the managers price until this
> happens. Instant TO to either get what you want or you don't waste yours
or
> anybody elses time... That's the way to do it.
informed customer. A copy of dealer invoice? Great!! I'll take that
anyday over the unrealistic knucklehead who tries to negiotate with ankle
shots $3,000 below our cost and then walks out in a huff, muttering
obscenities.
With the invoice shopper at least I know:
*I most likely have a serious buyer who knows exactly what they want.
*It'll probably be a skinny deal, but it'll be a deal if I do my job right.
*We'll probably get this deal done FAST!
Gotta love it!
BTW, I've held some very nice grosses and made sizeable commissions on
"invoice buyers" who've been extremely satisified with their purchase. It's
not always money!
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"Peter Parker" <nospam@zero.com> wrote in message
news:4082872c_2@nntp2.nac.net...
> In article <Vcngc.16958$0b4.23543@attbi_s51>, Kevin <Kevin@el.net> wrote:
> <yawn deleted>
> >
> > Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
> >Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> >
>
> Bull. The salesman loves it. The sales managers hate it because it's
clearly
> known that the saleman has no control over the managers price until this
> happens. Instant TO to either get what you want or you don't waste yours
or
> anybody elses time... That's the way to do it.
#183
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
As a car salesman, there's nothing I like more than dealing with a well
informed customer. A copy of dealer invoice? Great!! I'll take that
anyday over the unrealistic knucklehead who tries to negiotate with ankle
shots $3,000 below our cost and then walks out in a huff, muttering
obscenities.
With the invoice shopper at least I know:
*I most likely have a serious buyer who knows exactly what they want.
*It'll probably be a skinny deal, but it'll be a deal if I do my job right.
*We'll probably get this deal done FAST!
Gotta love it!
BTW, I've held some very nice grosses and made sizeable commissions on
"invoice buyers" who've been extremely satisified with their purchase. It's
not always money!
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"Peter Parker" <nospam@zero.com> wrote in message
news:4082872c_2@nntp2.nac.net...
> In article <Vcngc.16958$0b4.23543@attbi_s51>, Kevin <Kevin@el.net> wrote:
> <yawn deleted>
> >
> > Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
> >Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> >
>
> Bull. The salesman loves it. The sales managers hate it because it's
clearly
> known that the saleman has no control over the managers price until this
> happens. Instant TO to either get what you want or you don't waste yours
or
> anybody elses time... That's the way to do it.
informed customer. A copy of dealer invoice? Great!! I'll take that
anyday over the unrealistic knucklehead who tries to negiotate with ankle
shots $3,000 below our cost and then walks out in a huff, muttering
obscenities.
With the invoice shopper at least I know:
*I most likely have a serious buyer who knows exactly what they want.
*It'll probably be a skinny deal, but it'll be a deal if I do my job right.
*We'll probably get this deal done FAST!
Gotta love it!
BTW, I've held some very nice grosses and made sizeable commissions on
"invoice buyers" who've been extremely satisified with their purchase. It's
not always money!
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"Peter Parker" <nospam@zero.com> wrote in message
news:4082872c_2@nntp2.nac.net...
> In article <Vcngc.16958$0b4.23543@attbi_s51>, Kevin <Kevin@el.net> wrote:
> <yawn deleted>
> >
> > Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
> >Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> >
>
> Bull. The salesman loves it. The sales managers hate it because it's
clearly
> known that the saleman has no control over the managers price until this
> happens. Instant TO to either get what you want or you don't waste yours
or
> anybody elses time... That's the way to do it.
#184
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
As a car salesman, there's nothing I like more than dealing with a well
informed customer. A copy of dealer invoice? Great!! I'll take that
anyday over the unrealistic knucklehead who tries to negiotate with ankle
shots $3,000 below our cost and then walks out in a huff, muttering
obscenities.
With the invoice shopper at least I know:
*I most likely have a serious buyer who knows exactly what they want.
*It'll probably be a skinny deal, but it'll be a deal if I do my job right.
*We'll probably get this deal done FAST!
Gotta love it!
BTW, I've held some very nice grosses and made sizeable commissions on
"invoice buyers" who've been extremely satisified with their purchase. It's
not always money!
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"Peter Parker" <nospam@zero.com> wrote in message
news:4082872c_2@nntp2.nac.net...
> In article <Vcngc.16958$0b4.23543@attbi_s51>, Kevin <Kevin@el.net> wrote:
> <yawn deleted>
> >
> > Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
> >Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> >
>
> Bull. The salesman loves it. The sales managers hate it because it's
clearly
> known that the saleman has no control over the managers price until this
> happens. Instant TO to either get what you want or you don't waste yours
or
> anybody elses time... That's the way to do it.
informed customer. A copy of dealer invoice? Great!! I'll take that
anyday over the unrealistic knucklehead who tries to negiotate with ankle
shots $3,000 below our cost and then walks out in a huff, muttering
obscenities.
With the invoice shopper at least I know:
*I most likely have a serious buyer who knows exactly what they want.
*It'll probably be a skinny deal, but it'll be a deal if I do my job right.
*We'll probably get this deal done FAST!
Gotta love it!
BTW, I've held some very nice grosses and made sizeable commissions on
"invoice buyers" who've been extremely satisified with their purchase. It's
not always money!
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"Peter Parker" <nospam@zero.com> wrote in message
news:4082872c_2@nntp2.nac.net...
> In article <Vcngc.16958$0b4.23543@attbi_s51>, Kevin <Kevin@el.net> wrote:
> <yawn deleted>
> >
> > Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
> >Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> >
>
> Bull. The salesman loves it. The sales managers hate it because it's
clearly
> known that the saleman has no control over the managers price until this
> happens. Instant TO to either get what you want or you don't waste yours
or
> anybody elses time... That's the way to do it.
#185
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
As a car salesman, there's nothing I like more than dealing with a well
informed customer. A copy of dealer invoice? Great!! I'll take that
anyday over the unrealistic knucklehead who tries to negiotate with ankle
shots $3,000 below our cost and then walks out in a huff, muttering
obscenities.
With the invoice shopper at least I know:
*I most likely have a serious buyer who knows exactly what they want.
*It'll probably be a skinny deal, but it'll be a deal if I do my job right.
*We'll probably get this deal done FAST!
Gotta love it!
BTW, I've held some very nice grosses and made sizeable commissions on
"invoice buyers" who've been extremely satisified with their purchase. It's
not always money!
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"Peter Parker" <nospam@zero.com> wrote in message
news:4082872c_2@nntp2.nac.net...
> In article <Vcngc.16958$0b4.23543@attbi_s51>, Kevin <Kevin@el.net> wrote:
> <yawn deleted>
> >
> > Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
> >Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> >
>
> Bull. The salesman loves it. The sales managers hate it because it's
clearly
> known that the saleman has no control over the managers price until this
> happens. Instant TO to either get what you want or you don't waste yours
or
> anybody elses time... That's the way to do it.
informed customer. A copy of dealer invoice? Great!! I'll take that
anyday over the unrealistic knucklehead who tries to negiotate with ankle
shots $3,000 below our cost and then walks out in a huff, muttering
obscenities.
With the invoice shopper at least I know:
*I most likely have a serious buyer who knows exactly what they want.
*It'll probably be a skinny deal, but it'll be a deal if I do my job right.
*We'll probably get this deal done FAST!
Gotta love it!
BTW, I've held some very nice grosses and made sizeable commissions on
"invoice buyers" who've been extremely satisified with their purchase. It's
not always money!
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"Peter Parker" <nospam@zero.com> wrote in message
news:4082872c_2@nntp2.nac.net...
> In article <Vcngc.16958$0b4.23543@attbi_s51>, Kevin <Kevin@el.net> wrote:
> <yawn deleted>
> >
> > Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
> >Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
> >
>
> Bull. The salesman loves it. The sales managers hate it because it's
clearly
> known that the saleman has no control over the managers price until this
> happens. Instant TO to either get what you want or you don't waste yours
or
> anybody elses time... That's the way to do it.
#186
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
Oh PLEEZEEE, give me a break! The last time I did a new vehicle
I walked in, asked if they would give me Bluebook wholesale for
my trade and the advertised price (last weeks paper) for a common
model with standard options. Cash for the difference, no
financing issues. They said sure.
Then the fun began. For openers, the way they figured it and the
way I figure it were $2200 apart. I had to "show" them how to
read the Naad (SP?) Bluebook, you know you really do have to add
and subtract for condition, mileage, and options? The salesman
didn't seem to know. Then they took my trade out for a test
drive. When they came back, they 'LOST' my keys. Multiple trips
by the salesman to the Manger's office. Every trick in the book.
Took an hour and twenty minutes to get the deal they agreed to in
the first 10 minutes. And $2200 difference in my net.
I actually teach neogotiation skills. The above description was
NOT negotation, there was no exchange of information or
positions. It was strictly a case of the dealer trying to back
out on a previously agreed on deal. And of course, I happily use
this example in the classes I teach. Am I one of your "10%" that
complains all the time? No, only when I am forced to deal with
unethical people.
For many people, buying a new car is similar to listening to
someone run their fingernails down the blackboard for several
hours. And the TV crews have a field day with hidden cams in the
finance office. Quit trying to defend yourself to this crew, you
won't get any sympathy.
cactuscowboy wrote:
> It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
> negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
> that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
> salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
> negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
> price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
> negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> It's not.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
> showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
> (very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
> money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
> friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
> they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
> that really matters.
>
> In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
> relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
> (They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
> my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
> the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
> friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
> dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
> at world and unhappy in general.
>
> Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
> are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
> long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
> customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
> credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........
>
> My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
> adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
> consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
> process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
> finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
> delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
> dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
> a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
> plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
> in the newspaper.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
>
>
> "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
> news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
>
>>Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>>
>>
>>>I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
>
> Perhaps
>
>>>you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>>
>> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
>> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
>> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>>
>> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
>> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
>> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
>> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Where I work, we
>>>don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
>
> they're
>
>>>located.
>>
>> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
>> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
>> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
>> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
>> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
>> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
>> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
>> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
>> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
>> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
>> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
>> salesman pisses him off the least.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>>
>> It ain't always money.
>>
>>>I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
>
> do
>
>>>all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
>
> friends
>
>>>and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
>
> community,
>
>>>giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
>
> fair,
>
>>>4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
>
> of
>
>>>state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
>>>local Wyoming economy.
>>
>> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
>> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
>> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
>> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
>> in a hurry.
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>>
>
>
>
I walked in, asked if they would give me Bluebook wholesale for
my trade and the advertised price (last weeks paper) for a common
model with standard options. Cash for the difference, no
financing issues. They said sure.
Then the fun began. For openers, the way they figured it and the
way I figure it were $2200 apart. I had to "show" them how to
read the Naad (SP?) Bluebook, you know you really do have to add
and subtract for condition, mileage, and options? The salesman
didn't seem to know. Then they took my trade out for a test
drive. When they came back, they 'LOST' my keys. Multiple trips
by the salesman to the Manger's office. Every trick in the book.
Took an hour and twenty minutes to get the deal they agreed to in
the first 10 minutes. And $2200 difference in my net.
I actually teach neogotiation skills. The above description was
NOT negotation, there was no exchange of information or
positions. It was strictly a case of the dealer trying to back
out on a previously agreed on deal. And of course, I happily use
this example in the classes I teach. Am I one of your "10%" that
complains all the time? No, only when I am forced to deal with
unethical people.
For many people, buying a new car is similar to listening to
someone run their fingernails down the blackboard for several
hours. And the TV crews have a field day with hidden cams in the
finance office. Quit trying to defend yourself to this crew, you
won't get any sympathy.
cactuscowboy wrote:
> It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
> negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
> that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
> salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
> negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
> price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
> negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> It's not.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
> showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
> (very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
> money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
> friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
> they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
> that really matters.
>
> In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
> relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
> (They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
> my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
> the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
> friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
> dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
> at world and unhappy in general.
>
> Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
> are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
> long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
> customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
> credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........
>
> My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
> adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
> consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
> process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
> finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
> delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
> dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
> a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
> plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
> in the newspaper.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
>
>
> "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
> news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
>
>>Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>>
>>
>>>I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
>
> Perhaps
>
>>>you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>>
>> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
>> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
>> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>>
>> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
>> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
>> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
>> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Where I work, we
>>>don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
>
> they're
>
>>>located.
>>
>> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
>> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
>> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
>> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
>> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
>> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
>> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
>> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
>> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
>> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
>> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
>> salesman pisses him off the least.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>>
>> It ain't always money.
>>
>>>I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
>
> do
>
>>>all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
>
> friends
>
>>>and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
>
> community,
>
>>>giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
>
> fair,
>
>>>4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
>
> of
>
>>>state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
>>>local Wyoming economy.
>>
>> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
>> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
>> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
>> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
>> in a hurry.
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>>
>
>
>
#187
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
Oh PLEEZEEE, give me a break! The last time I did a new vehicle
I walked in, asked if they would give me Bluebook wholesale for
my trade and the advertised price (last weeks paper) for a common
model with standard options. Cash for the difference, no
financing issues. They said sure.
Then the fun began. For openers, the way they figured it and the
way I figure it were $2200 apart. I had to "show" them how to
read the Naad (SP?) Bluebook, you know you really do have to add
and subtract for condition, mileage, and options? The salesman
didn't seem to know. Then they took my trade out for a test
drive. When they came back, they 'LOST' my keys. Multiple trips
by the salesman to the Manger's office. Every trick in the book.
Took an hour and twenty minutes to get the deal they agreed to in
the first 10 minutes. And $2200 difference in my net.
I actually teach neogotiation skills. The above description was
NOT negotation, there was no exchange of information or
positions. It was strictly a case of the dealer trying to back
out on a previously agreed on deal. And of course, I happily use
this example in the classes I teach. Am I one of your "10%" that
complains all the time? No, only when I am forced to deal with
unethical people.
For many people, buying a new car is similar to listening to
someone run their fingernails down the blackboard for several
hours. And the TV crews have a field day with hidden cams in the
finance office. Quit trying to defend yourself to this crew, you
won't get any sympathy.
cactuscowboy wrote:
> It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
> negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
> that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
> salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
> negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
> price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
> negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> It's not.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
> showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
> (very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
> money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
> friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
> they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
> that really matters.
>
> In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
> relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
> (They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
> my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
> the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
> friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
> dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
> at world and unhappy in general.
>
> Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
> are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
> long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
> customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
> credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........
>
> My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
> adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
> consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
> process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
> finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
> delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
> dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
> a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
> plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
> in the newspaper.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
>
>
> "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
> news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
>
>>Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>>
>>
>>>I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
>
> Perhaps
>
>>>you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>>
>> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
>> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
>> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>>
>> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
>> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
>> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
>> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Where I work, we
>>>don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
>
> they're
>
>>>located.
>>
>> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
>> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
>> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
>> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
>> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
>> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
>> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
>> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
>> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
>> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
>> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
>> salesman pisses him off the least.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>>
>> It ain't always money.
>>
>>>I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
>
> do
>
>>>all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
>
> friends
>
>>>and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
>
> community,
>
>>>giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
>
> fair,
>
>>>4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
>
> of
>
>>>state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
>>>local Wyoming economy.
>>
>> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
>> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
>> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
>> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
>> in a hurry.
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>>
>
>
>
I walked in, asked if they would give me Bluebook wholesale for
my trade and the advertised price (last weeks paper) for a common
model with standard options. Cash for the difference, no
financing issues. They said sure.
Then the fun began. For openers, the way they figured it and the
way I figure it were $2200 apart. I had to "show" them how to
read the Naad (SP?) Bluebook, you know you really do have to add
and subtract for condition, mileage, and options? The salesman
didn't seem to know. Then they took my trade out for a test
drive. When they came back, they 'LOST' my keys. Multiple trips
by the salesman to the Manger's office. Every trick in the book.
Took an hour and twenty minutes to get the deal they agreed to in
the first 10 minutes. And $2200 difference in my net.
I actually teach neogotiation skills. The above description was
NOT negotation, there was no exchange of information or
positions. It was strictly a case of the dealer trying to back
out on a previously agreed on deal. And of course, I happily use
this example in the classes I teach. Am I one of your "10%" that
complains all the time? No, only when I am forced to deal with
unethical people.
For many people, buying a new car is similar to listening to
someone run their fingernails down the blackboard for several
hours. And the TV crews have a field day with hidden cams in the
finance office. Quit trying to defend yourself to this crew, you
won't get any sympathy.
cactuscowboy wrote:
> It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
> negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
> that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
> salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
> negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
> price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
> negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> It's not.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
> showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
> (very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
> money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
> friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
> they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
> that really matters.
>
> In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
> relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
> (They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
> my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
> the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
> friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
> dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
> at world and unhappy in general.
>
> Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
> are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
> long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
> customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
> credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........
>
> My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
> adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
> consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
> process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
> finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
> delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
> dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
> a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
> plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
> in the newspaper.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
>
>
> "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
> news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
>
>>Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>>
>>
>>>I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
>
> Perhaps
>
>>>you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>>
>> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
>> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
>> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>>
>> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
>> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
>> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
>> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Where I work, we
>>>don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
>
> they're
>
>>>located.
>>
>> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
>> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
>> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
>> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
>> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
>> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
>> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
>> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
>> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
>> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
>> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
>> salesman pisses him off the least.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>>
>> It ain't always money.
>>
>>>I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
>
> do
>
>>>all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
>
> friends
>
>>>and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
>
> community,
>
>>>giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
>
> fair,
>
>>>4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
>
> of
>
>>>state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
>>>local Wyoming economy.
>>
>> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
>> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
>> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
>> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
>> in a hurry.
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>>
>
>
>
#188
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
Oh PLEEZEEE, give me a break! The last time I did a new vehicle
I walked in, asked if they would give me Bluebook wholesale for
my trade and the advertised price (last weeks paper) for a common
model with standard options. Cash for the difference, no
financing issues. They said sure.
Then the fun began. For openers, the way they figured it and the
way I figure it were $2200 apart. I had to "show" them how to
read the Naad (SP?) Bluebook, you know you really do have to add
and subtract for condition, mileage, and options? The salesman
didn't seem to know. Then they took my trade out for a test
drive. When they came back, they 'LOST' my keys. Multiple trips
by the salesman to the Manger's office. Every trick in the book.
Took an hour and twenty minutes to get the deal they agreed to in
the first 10 minutes. And $2200 difference in my net.
I actually teach neogotiation skills. The above description was
NOT negotation, there was no exchange of information or
positions. It was strictly a case of the dealer trying to back
out on a previously agreed on deal. And of course, I happily use
this example in the classes I teach. Am I one of your "10%" that
complains all the time? No, only when I am forced to deal with
unethical people.
For many people, buying a new car is similar to listening to
someone run their fingernails down the blackboard for several
hours. And the TV crews have a field day with hidden cams in the
finance office. Quit trying to defend yourself to this crew, you
won't get any sympathy.
cactuscowboy wrote:
> It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
> negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
> that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
> salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
> negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
> price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
> negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> It's not.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
> showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
> (very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
> money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
> friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
> they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
> that really matters.
>
> In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
> relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
> (They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
> my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
> the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
> friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
> dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
> at world and unhappy in general.
>
> Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
> are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
> long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
> customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
> credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........
>
> My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
> adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
> consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
> process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
> finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
> delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
> dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
> a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
> plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
> in the newspaper.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
>
>
> "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
> news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
>
>>Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>>
>>
>>>I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
>
> Perhaps
>
>>>you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>>
>> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
>> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
>> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>>
>> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
>> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
>> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
>> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Where I work, we
>>>don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
>
> they're
>
>>>located.
>>
>> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
>> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
>> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
>> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
>> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
>> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
>> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
>> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
>> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
>> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
>> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
>> salesman pisses him off the least.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>>
>> It ain't always money.
>>
>>>I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
>
> do
>
>>>all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
>
> friends
>
>>>and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
>
> community,
>
>>>giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
>
> fair,
>
>>>4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
>
> of
>
>>>state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
>>>local Wyoming economy.
>>
>> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
>> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
>> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
>> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
>> in a hurry.
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>>
>
>
>
I walked in, asked if they would give me Bluebook wholesale for
my trade and the advertised price (last weeks paper) for a common
model with standard options. Cash for the difference, no
financing issues. They said sure.
Then the fun began. For openers, the way they figured it and the
way I figure it were $2200 apart. I had to "show" them how to
read the Naad (SP?) Bluebook, you know you really do have to add
and subtract for condition, mileage, and options? The salesman
didn't seem to know. Then they took my trade out for a test
drive. When they came back, they 'LOST' my keys. Multiple trips
by the salesman to the Manger's office. Every trick in the book.
Took an hour and twenty minutes to get the deal they agreed to in
the first 10 minutes. And $2200 difference in my net.
I actually teach neogotiation skills. The above description was
NOT negotation, there was no exchange of information or
positions. It was strictly a case of the dealer trying to back
out on a previously agreed on deal. And of course, I happily use
this example in the classes I teach. Am I one of your "10%" that
complains all the time? No, only when I am forced to deal with
unethical people.
For many people, buying a new car is similar to listening to
someone run their fingernails down the blackboard for several
hours. And the TV crews have a field day with hidden cams in the
finance office. Quit trying to defend yourself to this crew, you
won't get any sympathy.
cactuscowboy wrote:
> It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
> negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
> that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
> salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
> negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
> price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
> negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> It's not.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
> showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
> (very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
> money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
> friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
> they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
> that really matters.
>
> In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
> relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
> (They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
> my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
> the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
> friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
> dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
> at world and unhappy in general.
>
> Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
> are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
> long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
> customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
> credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........
>
> My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
> adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
> consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
> process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
> finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
> delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
> dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
> a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
> plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
> in the newspaper.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
>
>
> "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
> news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
>
>>Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>>
>>
>>>I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
>
> Perhaps
>
>>>you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>>
>> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
>> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
>> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>>
>> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
>> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
>> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
>> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Where I work, we
>>>don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
>
> they're
>
>>>located.
>>
>> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
>> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
>> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
>> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
>> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
>> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
>> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
>> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
>> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
>> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
>> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
>> salesman pisses him off the least.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>>
>> It ain't always money.
>>
>>>I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
>
> do
>
>>>all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
>
> friends
>
>>>and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
>
> community,
>
>>>giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
>
> fair,
>
>>>4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
>
> of
>
>>>state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
>>>local Wyoming economy.
>>
>> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
>> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
>> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
>> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
>> in a hurry.
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>>
>
>
>
#189
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
Oh PLEEZEEE, give me a break! The last time I did a new vehicle
I walked in, asked if they would give me Bluebook wholesale for
my trade and the advertised price (last weeks paper) for a common
model with standard options. Cash for the difference, no
financing issues. They said sure.
Then the fun began. For openers, the way they figured it and the
way I figure it were $2200 apart. I had to "show" them how to
read the Naad (SP?) Bluebook, you know you really do have to add
and subtract for condition, mileage, and options? The salesman
didn't seem to know. Then they took my trade out for a test
drive. When they came back, they 'LOST' my keys. Multiple trips
by the salesman to the Manger's office. Every trick in the book.
Took an hour and twenty minutes to get the deal they agreed to in
the first 10 minutes. And $2200 difference in my net.
I actually teach neogotiation skills. The above description was
NOT negotation, there was no exchange of information or
positions. It was strictly a case of the dealer trying to back
out on a previously agreed on deal. And of course, I happily use
this example in the classes I teach. Am I one of your "10%" that
complains all the time? No, only when I am forced to deal with
unethical people.
For many people, buying a new car is similar to listening to
someone run their fingernails down the blackboard for several
hours. And the TV crews have a field day with hidden cams in the
finance office. Quit trying to defend yourself to this crew, you
won't get any sympathy.
cactuscowboy wrote:
> It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
> negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
> that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
> salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
> negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
> price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
> negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> It's not.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
> showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
> (very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
> money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
> friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
> they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
> that really matters.
>
> In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
> relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
> (They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
> my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
> the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
> friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
> dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
> at world and unhappy in general.
>
> Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
> are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
> long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
> customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
> credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........
>
> My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
> adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
> consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
> process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
> finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
> delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
> dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
> a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
> plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
> in the newspaper.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
>
>
> "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
> news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
>
>>Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>>
>>
>>>I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
>
> Perhaps
>
>>>you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>>
>> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
>> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
>> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>>
>> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
>> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
>> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
>> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Where I work, we
>>>don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
>
> they're
>
>>>located.
>>
>> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
>> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
>> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
>> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
>> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
>> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
>> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
>> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
>> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
>> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
>> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
>> salesman pisses him off the least.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>>
>> It ain't always money.
>>
>>>I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
>
> do
>
>>>all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
>
> friends
>
>>>and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
>
> community,
>
>>>giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
>
> fair,
>
>>>4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
>
> of
>
>>>state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
>>>local Wyoming economy.
>>
>> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
>> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
>> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
>> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
>> in a hurry.
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>>
>
>
>
I walked in, asked if they would give me Bluebook wholesale for
my trade and the advertised price (last weeks paper) for a common
model with standard options. Cash for the difference, no
financing issues. They said sure.
Then the fun began. For openers, the way they figured it and the
way I figure it were $2200 apart. I had to "show" them how to
read the Naad (SP?) Bluebook, you know you really do have to add
and subtract for condition, mileage, and options? The salesman
didn't seem to know. Then they took my trade out for a test
drive. When they came back, they 'LOST' my keys. Multiple trips
by the salesman to the Manger's office. Every trick in the book.
Took an hour and twenty minutes to get the deal they agreed to in
the first 10 minutes. And $2200 difference in my net.
I actually teach neogotiation skills. The above description was
NOT negotation, there was no exchange of information or
positions. It was strictly a case of the dealer trying to back
out on a previously agreed on deal. And of course, I happily use
this example in the classes I teach. Am I one of your "10%" that
complains all the time? No, only when I am forced to deal with
unethical people.
For many people, buying a new car is similar to listening to
someone run their fingernails down the blackboard for several
hours. And the TV crews have a field day with hidden cams in the
finance office. Quit trying to defend yourself to this crew, you
won't get any sympathy.
cactuscowboy wrote:
> It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
> negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
> that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
> salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
> negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
> price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
> negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
> It's not.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
> showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
> (very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
> money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
> friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
> they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
> that really matters.
>
> In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
> relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
> (They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
> my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
> the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
> friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
> dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
> at world and unhappy in general.
>
> Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
> are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
> long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
> customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
> credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........
>
> My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
> adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
> consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
> process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
> finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
> delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
> dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
> a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
> plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
> in the newspaper.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
>
>
> "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
> news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
>
>>Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>>
>>
>>>I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
>
> Perhaps
>
>>>you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>>
>> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
>> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
>> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>>
>> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
>> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
>> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
>> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Where I work, we
>>>don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
>
> they're
>
>>>located.
>>
>> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
>> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
>> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
>> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
>> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
>> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
>> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
>> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
>> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
>> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
>> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
>> salesman pisses him off the least.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>>
>> It ain't always money.
>>
>>>I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
>
> do
>
>>>all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
>
> friends
>
>>>and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
>
> community,
>
>>>giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
>
> fair,
>
>>>4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
>
> of
>
>>>state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
>>>local Wyoming economy.
>>
>> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
>> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
>> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
>> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
>> in a hurry.
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>>
>
>
>
#190
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
Roughly 4/17/04 21:10, Kevin's monkeys randomly typed:
>
> Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
> Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
>
A better way of putting it is that you are the newly minted
millionaire from backwoods Idaho who has bought a book on
how to beat the house at roulette and have just entered the
door of a casino without wondering how it manages to pay for
all those pretty lights and furnishings.
--
Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>
> Walk in with a printout showing true dealer cost from edmunds.com .
> Then you are in the drivers seat. The salesman hate that.
>
A better way of putting it is that you are the newly minted
millionaire from backwoods Idaho who has bought a book on
how to beat the house at roulette and have just entered the
door of a casino without wondering how it manages to pay for
all those pretty lights and furnishings.
--
Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate