Jeep Toad
#221
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Toad
L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> You might notice that Bill uses links to back his theories, where
> wannabees like you just lie.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
the PDF...
You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
just how often you are.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> You might notice that Bill uses links to back his theories, where
> wannabees like you just lie.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
the PDF...
You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
just how often you are.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
#222
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Toad
L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> You might notice that Bill uses links to back his theories, where
> wannabees like you just lie.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
the PDF...
You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
just how often you are.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> You might notice that Bill uses links to back his theories, where
> wannabees like you just lie.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
the PDF...
You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
just how often you are.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
#223
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Toad
L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> You might notice that Bill uses links to back his theories, where
> wannabees like you just lie.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
the PDF...
You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
just how often you are.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> You might notice that Bill uses links to back his theories, where
> wannabees like you just lie.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
the PDF...
You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
just how often you are.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
#224
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Toad
mabar wrote:
> So far in this thread, nobody has answered Jeff's question: Why do
> semi-trucks use drum brakes?
>
> I also am curious - why do they use drums rather than disks?
This is one of those questions that has a bunch of answers which are all
more or less true.
Because the industry is traditional and doesn't like change, because
drums perform on Semi's pretty well in an overall sense, because
changing to discs requires a lot of new technology and new untested (in
trucking) systems which can fail until the bugs are worked out causing
law suits. In short because the industry is cheap and as stubborn as
Bill about adapting to new stuff.
Probably the major reason (and long winded one) though is mechanical;
Because air brake systems works backwards from how we are used to brakes
working...
The default state on a semi's brake system is LOCKED UP... Unlike
hydrolic systems where a lack of fluid will result in NO BRAKES, a lack
of air will result in total brakes. This is because air is used to push
against the heavy springs that are ALWAYS trying to push the brake shoes
against the drums. The air is used to compress these springs.
The mechanical advantage here is that in emergencies Semi's have brakes
even without a running motor OR air in the system. With no motor you can
still lightly brake a Semi to a safe stop. With no air it will come to a
more or less screeching halt, but at least it will stop.
The same could certainly be done using discs but would require a system
that is very different from our cars discs and thus lots of R&D dollars.
Drums have almost no advantages over discs, they are FAR heavier, FAR
less thermally efficient, they trap water, and heat, they have LESS
friction surface until they are just about locked up. and they use WAY
WAY more parts, they are manually adjusted (even automatic slack
adjusters must be manually adjusted occasionally!)
You asked :)
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> So far in this thread, nobody has answered Jeff's question: Why do
> semi-trucks use drum brakes?
>
> I also am curious - why do they use drums rather than disks?
This is one of those questions that has a bunch of answers which are all
more or less true.
Because the industry is traditional and doesn't like change, because
drums perform on Semi's pretty well in an overall sense, because
changing to discs requires a lot of new technology and new untested (in
trucking) systems which can fail until the bugs are worked out causing
law suits. In short because the industry is cheap and as stubborn as
Bill about adapting to new stuff.
Probably the major reason (and long winded one) though is mechanical;
Because air brake systems works backwards from how we are used to brakes
working...
The default state on a semi's brake system is LOCKED UP... Unlike
hydrolic systems where a lack of fluid will result in NO BRAKES, a lack
of air will result in total brakes. This is because air is used to push
against the heavy springs that are ALWAYS trying to push the brake shoes
against the drums. The air is used to compress these springs.
The mechanical advantage here is that in emergencies Semi's have brakes
even without a running motor OR air in the system. With no motor you can
still lightly brake a Semi to a safe stop. With no air it will come to a
more or less screeching halt, but at least it will stop.
The same could certainly be done using discs but would require a system
that is very different from our cars discs and thus lots of R&D dollars.
Drums have almost no advantages over discs, they are FAR heavier, FAR
less thermally efficient, they trap water, and heat, they have LESS
friction surface until they are just about locked up. and they use WAY
WAY more parts, they are manually adjusted (even automatic slack
adjusters must be manually adjusted occasionally!)
You asked :)
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
#225
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Toad
mabar wrote:
> So far in this thread, nobody has answered Jeff's question: Why do
> semi-trucks use drum brakes?
>
> I also am curious - why do they use drums rather than disks?
This is one of those questions that has a bunch of answers which are all
more or less true.
Because the industry is traditional and doesn't like change, because
drums perform on Semi's pretty well in an overall sense, because
changing to discs requires a lot of new technology and new untested (in
trucking) systems which can fail until the bugs are worked out causing
law suits. In short because the industry is cheap and as stubborn as
Bill about adapting to new stuff.
Probably the major reason (and long winded one) though is mechanical;
Because air brake systems works backwards from how we are used to brakes
working...
The default state on a semi's brake system is LOCKED UP... Unlike
hydrolic systems where a lack of fluid will result in NO BRAKES, a lack
of air will result in total brakes. This is because air is used to push
against the heavy springs that are ALWAYS trying to push the brake shoes
against the drums. The air is used to compress these springs.
The mechanical advantage here is that in emergencies Semi's have brakes
even without a running motor OR air in the system. With no motor you can
still lightly brake a Semi to a safe stop. With no air it will come to a
more or less screeching halt, but at least it will stop.
The same could certainly be done using discs but would require a system
that is very different from our cars discs and thus lots of R&D dollars.
Drums have almost no advantages over discs, they are FAR heavier, FAR
less thermally efficient, they trap water, and heat, they have LESS
friction surface until they are just about locked up. and they use WAY
WAY more parts, they are manually adjusted (even automatic slack
adjusters must be manually adjusted occasionally!)
You asked :)
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> So far in this thread, nobody has answered Jeff's question: Why do
> semi-trucks use drum brakes?
>
> I also am curious - why do they use drums rather than disks?
This is one of those questions that has a bunch of answers which are all
more or less true.
Because the industry is traditional and doesn't like change, because
drums perform on Semi's pretty well in an overall sense, because
changing to discs requires a lot of new technology and new untested (in
trucking) systems which can fail until the bugs are worked out causing
law suits. In short because the industry is cheap and as stubborn as
Bill about adapting to new stuff.
Probably the major reason (and long winded one) though is mechanical;
Because air brake systems works backwards from how we are used to brakes
working...
The default state on a semi's brake system is LOCKED UP... Unlike
hydrolic systems where a lack of fluid will result in NO BRAKES, a lack
of air will result in total brakes. This is because air is used to push
against the heavy springs that are ALWAYS trying to push the brake shoes
against the drums. The air is used to compress these springs.
The mechanical advantage here is that in emergencies Semi's have brakes
even without a running motor OR air in the system. With no motor you can
still lightly brake a Semi to a safe stop. With no air it will come to a
more or less screeching halt, but at least it will stop.
The same could certainly be done using discs but would require a system
that is very different from our cars discs and thus lots of R&D dollars.
Drums have almost no advantages over discs, they are FAR heavier, FAR
less thermally efficient, they trap water, and heat, they have LESS
friction surface until they are just about locked up. and they use WAY
WAY more parts, they are manually adjusted (even automatic slack
adjusters must be manually adjusted occasionally!)
You asked :)
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
#226
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Toad
mabar wrote:
> So far in this thread, nobody has answered Jeff's question: Why do
> semi-trucks use drum brakes?
>
> I also am curious - why do they use drums rather than disks?
This is one of those questions that has a bunch of answers which are all
more or less true.
Because the industry is traditional and doesn't like change, because
drums perform on Semi's pretty well in an overall sense, because
changing to discs requires a lot of new technology and new untested (in
trucking) systems which can fail until the bugs are worked out causing
law suits. In short because the industry is cheap and as stubborn as
Bill about adapting to new stuff.
Probably the major reason (and long winded one) though is mechanical;
Because air brake systems works backwards from how we are used to brakes
working...
The default state on a semi's brake system is LOCKED UP... Unlike
hydrolic systems where a lack of fluid will result in NO BRAKES, a lack
of air will result in total brakes. This is because air is used to push
against the heavy springs that are ALWAYS trying to push the brake shoes
against the drums. The air is used to compress these springs.
The mechanical advantage here is that in emergencies Semi's have brakes
even without a running motor OR air in the system. With no motor you can
still lightly brake a Semi to a safe stop. With no air it will come to a
more or less screeching halt, but at least it will stop.
The same could certainly be done using discs but would require a system
that is very different from our cars discs and thus lots of R&D dollars.
Drums have almost no advantages over discs, they are FAR heavier, FAR
less thermally efficient, they trap water, and heat, they have LESS
friction surface until they are just about locked up. and they use WAY
WAY more parts, they are manually adjusted (even automatic slack
adjusters must be manually adjusted occasionally!)
You asked :)
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> So far in this thread, nobody has answered Jeff's question: Why do
> semi-trucks use drum brakes?
>
> I also am curious - why do they use drums rather than disks?
This is one of those questions that has a bunch of answers which are all
more or less true.
Because the industry is traditional and doesn't like change, because
drums perform on Semi's pretty well in an overall sense, because
changing to discs requires a lot of new technology and new untested (in
trucking) systems which can fail until the bugs are worked out causing
law suits. In short because the industry is cheap and as stubborn as
Bill about adapting to new stuff.
Probably the major reason (and long winded one) though is mechanical;
Because air brake systems works backwards from how we are used to brakes
working...
The default state on a semi's brake system is LOCKED UP... Unlike
hydrolic systems where a lack of fluid will result in NO BRAKES, a lack
of air will result in total brakes. This is because air is used to push
against the heavy springs that are ALWAYS trying to push the brake shoes
against the drums. The air is used to compress these springs.
The mechanical advantage here is that in emergencies Semi's have brakes
even without a running motor OR air in the system. With no motor you can
still lightly brake a Semi to a safe stop. With no air it will come to a
more or less screeching halt, but at least it will stop.
The same could certainly be done using discs but would require a system
that is very different from our cars discs and thus lots of R&D dollars.
Drums have almost no advantages over discs, they are FAR heavier, FAR
less thermally efficient, they trap water, and heat, they have LESS
friction surface until they are just about locked up. and they use WAY
WAY more parts, they are manually adjusted (even automatic slack
adjusters must be manually adjusted occasionally!)
You asked :)
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
#227
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Toad
The one instances where you found me to be wrong, was on the XJ
with a Chrysler and I said "I stand corrected":
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
>
> See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
> because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
> Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
> the PDF...
>
> You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
> mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
> just how often you are.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
with a Chrysler and I said "I stand corrected":
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
>
> See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
> because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
> Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
> the PDF...
>
> You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
> mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
> just how often you are.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
#228
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Toad
The one instances where you found me to be wrong, was on the XJ
with a Chrysler and I said "I stand corrected":
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
>
> See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
> because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
> Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
> the PDF...
>
> You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
> mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
> just how often you are.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
with a Chrysler and I said "I stand corrected":
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
>
> See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
> because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
> Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
> the PDF...
>
> You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
> mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
> just how often you are.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
#229
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Toad
The one instances where you found me to be wrong, was on the XJ
with a Chrysler and I said "I stand corrected":
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
>
> See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
> because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
> Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
> the PDF...
>
> You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
> mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
> just how often you are.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
with a Chrysler and I said "I stand corrected":
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> More like fantasys and your links OFTEN contradict your fantasys.
>
> See Chrysler 8.25 rear axle that you refused to believe existed simply
> because you didn't see their listing in a PDF you posted a dozen times.
> Despite the fact that they were stairing right at you on page three of
> the PDF...
>
> You should take that as a clue, you can be utterly 180 degrees off the
> mark and you have no freakin idea. You would probably be surprised at
> just how often you are.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
#230
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Toad
That is so.... WRONG it's overwhelming! So I'll just eliminate the
maxies, for the others that may believe in this group, They use air
pressure to release the parking brakes they are not used in stopping! I
think that most people could tell by the number of gauges we have to
monitor that if a part like disk brakes could be used safely we would
have them on our half a million dollar tractors:
http://www.----------.com/kenworthdash.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> mabar wrote:
> > So far in this thread, nobody has answered Jeff's question: Why do
> > semi-trucks use drum brakes?
> >
> > I also am curious - why do they use drums rather than disks?
>
> This is one of those questions that has a bunch of answers which are all
> more or less true.
>
> Because the industry is traditional and doesn't like change, because
> drums perform on Semi's pretty well in an overall sense, because
> changing to discs requires a lot of new technology and new untested (in
> trucking) systems which can fail until the bugs are worked out causing
> law suits. In short because the industry is cheap and as stubborn as
> Bill about adapting to new stuff.
>
> Probably the major reason (and long winded one) though is mechanical;
> Because air brake systems works backwards from how we are used to brakes
> working...
>
> The default state on a semi's brake system is LOCKED UP... Unlike
> hydrolic systems where a lack of fluid will result in NO BRAKES, a lack
> of air will result in total brakes. This is because air is used to push
> against the heavy springs that are ALWAYS trying to push the brake shoes
> against the drums. The air is used to compress these springs.
>
> The mechanical advantage here is that in emergencies Semi's have brakes
> even without a running motor OR air in the system. With no motor you can
> still lightly brake a Semi to a safe stop. With no air it will come to a
> more or less screeching halt, but at least it will stop.
>
> The same could certainly be done using discs but would require a system
> that is very different from our cars discs and thus lots of R&D dollars.
> Drums have almost no advantages over discs, they are FAR heavier, FAR
> less thermally efficient, they trap water, and heat, they have LESS
> friction surface until they are just about locked up. and they use WAY
> WAY more parts, they are manually adjusted (even automatic slack
> adjusters must be manually adjusted occasionally!)
>
> You asked :)
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
maxies, for the others that may believe in this group, They use air
pressure to release the parking brakes they are not used in stopping! I
think that most people could tell by the number of gauges we have to
monitor that if a part like disk brakes could be used safely we would
have them on our half a million dollar tractors:
http://www.----------.com/kenworthdash.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> mabar wrote:
> > So far in this thread, nobody has answered Jeff's question: Why do
> > semi-trucks use drum brakes?
> >
> > I also am curious - why do they use drums rather than disks?
>
> This is one of those questions that has a bunch of answers which are all
> more or less true.
>
> Because the industry is traditional and doesn't like change, because
> drums perform on Semi's pretty well in an overall sense, because
> changing to discs requires a lot of new technology and new untested (in
> trucking) systems which can fail until the bugs are worked out causing
> law suits. In short because the industry is cheap and as stubborn as
> Bill about adapting to new stuff.
>
> Probably the major reason (and long winded one) though is mechanical;
> Because air brake systems works backwards from how we are used to brakes
> working...
>
> The default state on a semi's brake system is LOCKED UP... Unlike
> hydrolic systems where a lack of fluid will result in NO BRAKES, a lack
> of air will result in total brakes. This is because air is used to push
> against the heavy springs that are ALWAYS trying to push the brake shoes
> against the drums. The air is used to compress these springs.
>
> The mechanical advantage here is that in emergencies Semi's have brakes
> even without a running motor OR air in the system. With no motor you can
> still lightly brake a Semi to a safe stop. With no air it will come to a
> more or less screeching halt, but at least it will stop.
>
> The same could certainly be done using discs but would require a system
> that is very different from our cars discs and thus lots of R&D dollars.
> Drums have almost no advantages over discs, they are FAR heavier, FAR
> less thermally efficient, they trap water, and heat, they have LESS
> friction surface until they are just about locked up. and they use WAY
> WAY more parts, they are manually adjusted (even automatic slack
> adjusters must be manually adjusted occasionally!)
>
> You asked :)
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein