What does the Mechanic get
#221
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
"Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4007d35e_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> You gotta walk a mile in my shoes before you characterize dealer
mechanics,
> Nate.
for claritity im not characterizing the mechanics. i dont like many of the
policies coming down from the man in the office whos never had his hands
greasy.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
news:4007d35e_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> You gotta walk a mile in my shoes before you characterize dealer
mechanics,
> Nate.
for claritity im not characterizing the mechanics. i dont like many of the
policies coming down from the man in the office whos never had his hands
greasy.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
#222
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
"Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4007d35e_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> You gotta walk a mile in my shoes before you characterize dealer
mechanics,
> Nate.
for claritity im not characterizing the mechanics. i dont like many of the
policies coming down from the man in the office whos never had his hands
greasy.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
news:4007d35e_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> You gotta walk a mile in my shoes before you characterize dealer
mechanics,
> Nate.
for claritity im not characterizing the mechanics. i dont like many of the
policies coming down from the man in the office whos never had his hands
greasy.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
#223
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
"Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4007d35e_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> You gotta walk a mile in my shoes before you characterize dealer
mechanics,
> Nate.
for claritity im not characterizing the mechanics. i dont like many of the
policies coming down from the man in the office whos never had his hands
greasy.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
news:4007d35e_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> You gotta walk a mile in my shoes before you characterize dealer
mechanics,
> Nate.
for claritity im not characterizing the mechanics. i dont like many of the
policies coming down from the man in the office whos never had his hands
greasy.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
#224
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Roughly 1/16/04 02:29, Old Crow's monkeys randomly typed:
No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
in a previous incarnation.
No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
in a previous incarnation.
#225
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Roughly 1/16/04 02:29, Old Crow's monkeys randomly typed:
No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
in a previous incarnation.
No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
in a previous incarnation.
#226
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Roughly 1/16/04 02:29, Old Crow's monkeys randomly typed:
No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
in a previous incarnation.
No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
in a previous incarnation.
#227
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Yeah, the name has changed, but there is still a network of factory dudes
that come around and try to take money away from us. Just today, as a
matter of fact, the factory dude tried to charge my shop back a few hundred
bucks because I replaced rod bearings while overhauling a Northstar engine.
He says to reuse the bearings. See what I have to put up with?
Jerry
"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:ryVNb.69060$sv6.145633@attbi_s52...
> Roughly 1/16/04 02:29, Old Crow's monkeys randomly typed:
> No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> > shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> > rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> > I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> > you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> > move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> > I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
>
> Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
> the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
> Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
> of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
> was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
> blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
> Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
> in a previous incarnation.
>
that come around and try to take money away from us. Just today, as a
matter of fact, the factory dude tried to charge my shop back a few hundred
bucks because I replaced rod bearings while overhauling a Northstar engine.
He says to reuse the bearings. See what I have to put up with?
Jerry
"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:ryVNb.69060$sv6.145633@attbi_s52...
> Roughly 1/16/04 02:29, Old Crow's monkeys randomly typed:
> No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> > shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> > rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> > I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> > you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> > move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> > I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
>
> Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
> the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
> Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
> of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
> was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
> blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
> Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
> in a previous incarnation.
>
#228
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Yeah, the name has changed, but there is still a network of factory dudes
that come around and try to take money away from us. Just today, as a
matter of fact, the factory dude tried to charge my shop back a few hundred
bucks because I replaced rod bearings while overhauling a Northstar engine.
He says to reuse the bearings. See what I have to put up with?
Jerry
"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:ryVNb.69060$sv6.145633@attbi_s52...
> Roughly 1/16/04 02:29, Old Crow's monkeys randomly typed:
> No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> > shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> > rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> > I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> > you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> > move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> > I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
>
> Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
> the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
> Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
> of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
> was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
> blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
> Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
> in a previous incarnation.
>
that come around and try to take money away from us. Just today, as a
matter of fact, the factory dude tried to charge my shop back a few hundred
bucks because I replaced rod bearings while overhauling a Northstar engine.
He says to reuse the bearings. See what I have to put up with?
Jerry
"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:ryVNb.69060$sv6.145633@attbi_s52...
> Roughly 1/16/04 02:29, Old Crow's monkeys randomly typed:
> No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> > shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> > rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> > I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> > you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> > move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> > I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
>
> Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
> the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
> Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
> of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
> was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
> blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
> Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
> in a previous incarnation.
>
#229
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Yeah, the name has changed, but there is still a network of factory dudes
that come around and try to take money away from us. Just today, as a
matter of fact, the factory dude tried to charge my shop back a few hundred
bucks because I replaced rod bearings while overhauling a Northstar engine.
He says to reuse the bearings. See what I have to put up with?
Jerry
"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:ryVNb.69060$sv6.145633@attbi_s52...
> Roughly 1/16/04 02:29, Old Crow's monkeys randomly typed:
> No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> > shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> > rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> > I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> > you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> > move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> > I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
>
> Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
> the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
> Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
> of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
> was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
> blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
> Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
> in a previous incarnation.
>
that come around and try to take money away from us. Just today, as a
matter of fact, the factory dude tried to charge my shop back a few hundred
bucks because I replaced rod bearings while overhauling a Northstar engine.
He says to reuse the bearings. See what I have to put up with?
Jerry
"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:ryVNb.69060$sv6.145633@attbi_s52...
> Roughly 1/16/04 02:29, Old Crow's monkeys randomly typed:
> No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a
> > shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would
> > rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership.
> > I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do
> > you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to
> > move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow.
> > I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.
>
> Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around
> the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in
> Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer
> of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and
> was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without
> blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to
> Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder
> in a previous incarnation.
>
#230
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
I dropped the engine in my Dad's garage. Used two floor jacks, lifting on
the body. Got everything undone except 4 of the 6 bolts holding the
subframe to the body. Lowered the jacks so the sub frame was sitting on the
floor, removed the last bolts and jacked the car up off of the subframe.
Rolled the car out on the 2 floor jacks. Worked quite well. Much easier
taking cars apart reversing the procedure used to build them. We've all
struggled to get a steering shaft reconnected to a rack with about 2 inches
to get your hand in. Went to disconnect the steering shaft and it was right
there if you looked from the correct angle. Obviously when they design
these things they make the initial assembly easiest and the inservice repair
access only just doable, if you know what I mean. Took everything out with
the engine, wiring harness, ps pump and hoses, ac comp etc. Like that
there's nothing to set up when you've reassembled. Plug everything in,
twist her tail and away you go. Drive for an hour and the ECM's relearned
what it needs to.
I actually prefer the looks of the first series to the newer ones, sort
of stood out a little more. the newer one is too easy to mistake for a
Maxima.
I sometimes get to hating our harsh winters up here, but I love the big
picture. Summers that can't be beat anywhere, lots of fresh air, lakes,
beaches, camping, fishing all an hour or less away yet have several live
theatres, opera, ballet anything you want in a small big city. Safe place
to raise a family too.
Oh yeah, you're right about the desk jockey thing. Every so often,
before I got back to fixing my own car and now my kid's I used to miss
turning a wrench. I would go lie under my coffee table till the feeling
passed.
Steve
"Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:40073835_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Thanks for the info on the Aurora. It is unusual, indeed, to experience
> those sorts of trans problems, and you are probably right concerning the
> root cause. Aurora was an awesome car to drive, they handle like they are
> on rails, but I never got attached to the way they look. Sometimes it
takes
> a couple of years for a new model to grow on me, but Aurora never did.
The
> later model Auroras are a little sleeker, but like all Oldsmobiles, they
are
> going away soon. Better get yours before they are gone for good.
>
> I was an Arizona native until 2001, when we loaded up the RV and moved to
> New Hampshire. I had never been here prior to moving, we just kind of
> looked at some statistics on education and health, and looked at the map,
> and decided New England was for us. I do miss Arizona's winter
wheeling...
> too hot in summer to do anything but go to the lake. I don't miss the
> pollution and crowded-ness of the Phoenix area, though. I have always
> wanted to visit Canada, and maybe now we will have a better opportunity,
> seeing that we are only a couple of hours from the border.
>
> I appreciate your open minded-ness, and the fact that you don't paint all
> dealership guys with the same brush. Being a mechanic has been good to
me,
> financially and otherwise. It afforded me the chance to pick where I
wanted
> to live in the country, for one thing. It gives me a lot of flexibility
> with my work hours, and I get to meet a lot of nice folks and drive their
> cars. I am getting a little older, and I sometimes think that I shouldn't
> be doing this anymore, but I can still outrun these little whippersnaps on
> these jobs, so as long as I am doing that, I suppose I will stay in the
> game. Still beats being a desk jockey, no offense.
>
> Out of curiosity, did you pull the engine on the Aurora, like you said, or
> did you drop it out the bottom? Kinda hard to drop it if you don't have a
> rack, but you never know.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> news:W7FNb.117697$ts4.55879@pd7tw3no...
> > Jerry,
> > On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous
owner
> > got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was
> slow
> > engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first
> call
> > I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the
fluid
> > hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting
> it
> > precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they
> phoned
> > to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until
> monday
> > when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city
> of
> > 650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined
> the
> > problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a
> week.
> > Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week
later
> > parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts.
Wait
> > another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly
what
> > the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I
> think
> > they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit.
Another
> > wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they
> had
> > off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
> > When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
> > Tightened them up and that worked well.
> > Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in
the
> > indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
> > harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as
> far
> > as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been
removed
> > when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
> > Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most
favourite
> > car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again
> with
> > a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on,
yet
> > civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
> > actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me
and
> > helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
> > insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
> > cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
> > they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as
much
> as
> > I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
> > learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for
> those
> > that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to
the
> > whole industry.
> > The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access
> to
> > the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality
> repairs.
> > These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a
set
> > of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
> > rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool
and
> > this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
> > bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy
we
> > live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
> > let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
> > Steve
> > "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately
familiar
> > > with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
> > common
> > > problems.
> > >
> > > The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> > > woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
> > that
> > > is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands
> of
> > > someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart,
> and
> > > sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart.
Factory
> > is
> > > pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown
> that
> > > there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech.
> If
> > > it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay
> for
> > > it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece
> rather
> > > than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
> > >
> > > Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> > > common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> > > concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced,
it
> > was
> > > likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to
> repair
> > > them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is
> usually
> > a
> > > bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> > > component. That is so that they can return things (like your
transaxle)
> > to
> > > the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> > > failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this
results
> in
> > a
> > > backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> > > replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
> > collect
> > > data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
> > repair
> > > instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this.
> They
> > > came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> > > allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the
analysis
> is
> > > ongoing.
> > >
> > > Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> > > expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there
> are
> > > guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have
any
> > > business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> > > knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when
you
> > > lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some
of
> > > those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with
shop
> > > owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of
qualified
> > > techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic
of
> > the
> > > lack of qualified techs.
> > >
> > > Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
> > howdy,
> > > how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need
to
> > have
> > > the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> > > Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
> > still
> > > do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are
> doing
> > a
> > > lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking.
> I
> > > have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
> > factory's
> > > expense.
> > >
> > > The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true
> professionals,
> > > and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in
> every
> > > shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that
> even
> > > the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
> > relative
> > > to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> > > opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
> > make.
> > > There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I
get.
> > I
> > > don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
> > Francisco,
> > > to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled
to
> > > spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan
isn't
> > > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You
> don't
> > > go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power
to
> > > Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
> > >
> > > Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your
> Aurora,
> > > and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
> > North.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > > "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> > > news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > > > Jerry,
> > > > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
> > years.
> > > > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years
> I've
> > > been
> > > > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> > > without
> > > > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the
quality
> > of
> > > > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> > > contact
> > > > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories
> with
> > > the
> > > > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
> > dealer
> > > > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out
> several
> > > > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put
> the
> > > > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put
the
> > > dash
> > > > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> > > replace
> > > > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
> > factory
> > > > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose
when
> I
> > > > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the
clutch
> > brg
> > > > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200
and
> > > still
> > > > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> > > another
> > > > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years
when
> it
> > > > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
> > another
> > > > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A
> couple
> > > of
> > > > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace
> the
> > > > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't
seem
> > > right,
> > > > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires
had
> > been
> > > > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to
pay
> > $360
> > > > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires
for
> > $60.
> > > > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the
plugs,
> > > > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > > > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
> > antiseize
> > > > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside
> of
> > > the
> > > > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> > > supposed
> > > > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side
of
> > the
> > > > plugs.
> > > > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is
> no
> > > > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
> > elevated
> > > > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and
tried
> > to
> > > > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
> > about
> > > > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > > > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all
> these
> > > > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> > > warranty
> > > > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new,
but
> > it
> > > > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
> > that
> > > I
> > > > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the
dash
> > > rattle
> > > > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
> > shifter
> > > > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up
> and
> > > > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search
> for
> > > the
> > > > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
> > engine
> > > > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar)
and
> > > > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
> > engine
> > > > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
> > manifold.
> > > > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > > > Steve
> > > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > > > particular
> > > > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
> > This
> > > > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> > > special
> > > > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars
we
> > > work
> > > > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have
to
> > take
> > > > it
> > > > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > > > >
> > > > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that
> is
> > > > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout
> while
> > > > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool
> with
> > > > which
> > > > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
> > three
> > > > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four
> brake
> > > > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the
tip
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > iceberg.
> > > > >
> > > > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you
want
> to
> > > > work
> > > > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> > > manufacturers
> > > > > make changes every year to major components and
> electrical/electronic
> > > > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas
> station
> > > > guys,
> > > > > then learn it as we go.
> > > > >
> > > > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor,
there
> > are
> > > > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> > > defies
> > > > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges
customers
> > > > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
> > Perhaps
> > > > Lon
> > > > > can refresh our memories.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour.
> the
> > > > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including
> insurance
> > > and
> > > > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge
> $75
> > an
> > > > > hour.
> > > > > > they do it because they can.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
the body. Got everything undone except 4 of the 6 bolts holding the
subframe to the body. Lowered the jacks so the sub frame was sitting on the
floor, removed the last bolts and jacked the car up off of the subframe.
Rolled the car out on the 2 floor jacks. Worked quite well. Much easier
taking cars apart reversing the procedure used to build them. We've all
struggled to get a steering shaft reconnected to a rack with about 2 inches
to get your hand in. Went to disconnect the steering shaft and it was right
there if you looked from the correct angle. Obviously when they design
these things they make the initial assembly easiest and the inservice repair
access only just doable, if you know what I mean. Took everything out with
the engine, wiring harness, ps pump and hoses, ac comp etc. Like that
there's nothing to set up when you've reassembled. Plug everything in,
twist her tail and away you go. Drive for an hour and the ECM's relearned
what it needs to.
I actually prefer the looks of the first series to the newer ones, sort
of stood out a little more. the newer one is too easy to mistake for a
Maxima.
I sometimes get to hating our harsh winters up here, but I love the big
picture. Summers that can't be beat anywhere, lots of fresh air, lakes,
beaches, camping, fishing all an hour or less away yet have several live
theatres, opera, ballet anything you want in a small big city. Safe place
to raise a family too.
Oh yeah, you're right about the desk jockey thing. Every so often,
before I got back to fixing my own car and now my kid's I used to miss
turning a wrench. I would go lie under my coffee table till the feeling
passed.
Steve
"Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:40073835_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Thanks for the info on the Aurora. It is unusual, indeed, to experience
> those sorts of trans problems, and you are probably right concerning the
> root cause. Aurora was an awesome car to drive, they handle like they are
> on rails, but I never got attached to the way they look. Sometimes it
takes
> a couple of years for a new model to grow on me, but Aurora never did.
The
> later model Auroras are a little sleeker, but like all Oldsmobiles, they
are
> going away soon. Better get yours before they are gone for good.
>
> I was an Arizona native until 2001, when we loaded up the RV and moved to
> New Hampshire. I had never been here prior to moving, we just kind of
> looked at some statistics on education and health, and looked at the map,
> and decided New England was for us. I do miss Arizona's winter
wheeling...
> too hot in summer to do anything but go to the lake. I don't miss the
> pollution and crowded-ness of the Phoenix area, though. I have always
> wanted to visit Canada, and maybe now we will have a better opportunity,
> seeing that we are only a couple of hours from the border.
>
> I appreciate your open minded-ness, and the fact that you don't paint all
> dealership guys with the same brush. Being a mechanic has been good to
me,
> financially and otherwise. It afforded me the chance to pick where I
wanted
> to live in the country, for one thing. It gives me a lot of flexibility
> with my work hours, and I get to meet a lot of nice folks and drive their
> cars. I am getting a little older, and I sometimes think that I shouldn't
> be doing this anymore, but I can still outrun these little whippersnaps on
> these jobs, so as long as I am doing that, I suppose I will stay in the
> game. Still beats being a desk jockey, no offense.
>
> Out of curiosity, did you pull the engine on the Aurora, like you said, or
> did you drop it out the bottom? Kinda hard to drop it if you don't have a
> rack, but you never know.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> news:W7FNb.117697$ts4.55879@pd7tw3no...
> > Jerry,
> > On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous
owner
> > got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was
> slow
> > engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first
> call
> > I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the
fluid
> > hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting
> it
> > precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they
> phoned
> > to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until
> monday
> > when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city
> of
> > 650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined
> the
> > problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a
> week.
> > Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week
later
> > parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts.
Wait
> > another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly
what
> > the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I
> think
> > they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit.
Another
> > wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they
> had
> > off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
> > When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
> > Tightened them up and that worked well.
> > Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in
the
> > indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
> > harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as
> far
> > as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been
removed
> > when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
> > Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most
favourite
> > car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again
> with
> > a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on,
yet
> > civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
> > actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me
and
> > helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
> > insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
> > cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
> > they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as
much
> as
> > I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
> > learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for
> those
> > that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to
the
> > whole industry.
> > The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access
> to
> > the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality
> repairs.
> > These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a
set
> > of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
> > rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool
and
> > this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
> > bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy
we
> > live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
> > let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
> > Steve
> > "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately
familiar
> > > with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
> > common
> > > problems.
> > >
> > > The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> > > woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
> > that
> > > is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands
> of
> > > someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart,
> and
> > > sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart.
Factory
> > is
> > > pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown
> that
> > > there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech.
> If
> > > it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay
> for
> > > it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece
> rather
> > > than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
> > >
> > > Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> > > common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> > > concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced,
it
> > was
> > > likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to
> repair
> > > them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is
> usually
> > a
> > > bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> > > component. That is so that they can return things (like your
transaxle)
> > to
> > > the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> > > failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this
results
> in
> > a
> > > backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> > > replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
> > collect
> > > data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
> > repair
> > > instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this.
> They
> > > came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> > > allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the
analysis
> is
> > > ongoing.
> > >
> > > Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> > > expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there
> are
> > > guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have
any
> > > business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> > > knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when
you
> > > lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some
of
> > > those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with
shop
> > > owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of
qualified
> > > techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic
of
> > the
> > > lack of qualified techs.
> > >
> > > Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
> > howdy,
> > > how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need
to
> > have
> > > the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> > > Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
> > still
> > > do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are
> doing
> > a
> > > lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking.
> I
> > > have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
> > factory's
> > > expense.
> > >
> > > The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true
> professionals,
> > > and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in
> every
> > > shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that
> even
> > > the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
> > relative
> > > to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> > > opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
> > make.
> > > There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I
get.
> > I
> > > don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
> > Francisco,
> > > to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled
to
> > > spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan
isn't
> > > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You
> don't
> > > go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power
to
> > > Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
> > >
> > > Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your
> Aurora,
> > > and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
> > North.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > > "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> > > news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > > > Jerry,
> > > > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
> > years.
> > > > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years
> I've
> > > been
> > > > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> > > without
> > > > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the
quality
> > of
> > > > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> > > contact
> > > > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories
> with
> > > the
> > > > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
> > dealer
> > > > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out
> several
> > > > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put
> the
> > > > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put
the
> > > dash
> > > > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> > > replace
> > > > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
> > factory
> > > > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose
when
> I
> > > > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the
clutch
> > brg
> > > > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200
and
> > > still
> > > > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> > > another
> > > > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years
when
> it
> > > > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
> > another
> > > > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A
> couple
> > > of
> > > > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace
> the
> > > > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't
seem
> > > right,
> > > > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires
had
> > been
> > > > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to
pay
> > $360
> > > > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires
for
> > $60.
> > > > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the
plugs,
> > > > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > > > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
> > antiseize
> > > > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside
> of
> > > the
> > > > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> > > supposed
> > > > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side
of
> > the
> > > > plugs.
> > > > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is
> no
> > > > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
> > elevated
> > > > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and
tried
> > to
> > > > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
> > about
> > > > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > > > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all
> these
> > > > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> > > warranty
> > > > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new,
but
> > it
> > > > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
> > that
> > > I
> > > > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the
dash
> > > rattle
> > > > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
> > shifter
> > > > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up
> and
> > > > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search
> for
> > > the
> > > > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
> > engine
> > > > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar)
and
> > > > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
> > engine
> > > > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
> > manifold.
> > > > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > > > Steve
> > > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > > > particular
> > > > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
> > This
> > > > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> > > special
> > > > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars
we
> > > work
> > > > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have
to
> > take
> > > > it
> > > > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > > > >
> > > > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that
> is
> > > > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout
> while
> > > > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool
> with
> > > > which
> > > > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
> > three
> > > > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four
> brake
> > > > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the
tip
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > iceberg.
> > > > >
> > > > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you
want
> to
> > > > work
> > > > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> > > manufacturers
> > > > > make changes every year to major components and
> electrical/electronic
> > > > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas
> station
> > > > guys,
> > > > > then learn it as we go.
> > > > >
> > > > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor,
there
> > are
> > > > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> > > defies
> > > > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges
customers
> > > > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
> > Perhaps
> > > > Lon
> > > > > can refresh our memories.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour.
> the
> > > > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including
> insurance
> > > and
> > > > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge
> $75
> > an
> > > > > hour.
> > > > > > they do it because they can.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>