What does the Mechanic get
#181
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
"The best service"?? Yes, it is often the only place to have a
recall repaired, and have warrantee work done.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jerry Newton wrote:
>
> A dealership isn't always a model of efficiency. It is the place that you
> take your car to get the best service. It is where you go when your local
> mechanic tells you that he can't (or doesn't want to) do the job you have
> asked him to do. Although there are exceptions to every rule, overall, you
> will not find a better trained, better equipped mechanic than you will find
> at your dealership. I am sorry that you have such bad feelings about your
> dealer, and I certainly don't defend anyone that I don't know. I do,
> however, defend my occupation as a whole. Like I posted elsewhere in this
> thread, I don't begrudge anyone's method of making a living, nor how much of
> a living they make. Running a service department on the scale of 23 techs
> is not an inexpensive enterprise, and the cost at the cashier's cage is
> justifiable. It is what the market will bear. If that weren't true, then
> dealership service departments would cease to exist.
>
> Have a nice day.
>
> Jerry
recall repaired, and have warrantee work done.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jerry Newton wrote:
>
> A dealership isn't always a model of efficiency. It is the place that you
> take your car to get the best service. It is where you go when your local
> mechanic tells you that he can't (or doesn't want to) do the job you have
> asked him to do. Although there are exceptions to every rule, overall, you
> will not find a better trained, better equipped mechanic than you will find
> at your dealership. I am sorry that you have such bad feelings about your
> dealer, and I certainly don't defend anyone that I don't know. I do,
> however, defend my occupation as a whole. Like I posted elsewhere in this
> thread, I don't begrudge anyone's method of making a living, nor how much of
> a living they make. Running a service department on the scale of 23 techs
> is not an inexpensive enterprise, and the cost at the cashier's cage is
> justifiable. It is what the market will bear. If that weren't true, then
> dealership service departments would cease to exist.
>
> Have a nice day.
>
> Jerry
#182
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper without
affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
the end ill benefit from saving you money.
> I hope he makes 200k this year.
i hope youre talking NET. :-)
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper without
affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
the end ill benefit from saving you money.
> I hope he makes 200k this year.
i hope youre talking NET. :-)
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
#183
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper without
affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
the end ill benefit from saving you money.
> I hope he makes 200k this year.
i hope youre talking NET. :-)
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper without
affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
the end ill benefit from saving you money.
> I hope he makes 200k this year.
i hope youre talking NET. :-)
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
#184
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper without
affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
the end ill benefit from saving you money.
> I hope he makes 200k this year.
i hope youre talking NET. :-)
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper without
affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
the end ill benefit from saving you money.
> I hope he makes 200k this year.
i hope youre talking NET. :-)
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
#185
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Jerry,
On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was slow
engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first call
I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting it
precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they phoned
to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until monday
when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city of
650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined the
problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a week.
Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I think
they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they had
off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
Tightened them up and that worked well.
Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as far
as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again with
a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much as
I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for those
that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
whole industry.
The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access to
the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality repairs.
These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
Steve
"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
common
> problems.
>
> The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
that
> is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands of
> someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart, and
> sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
is
> pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown that
> there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech. If
> it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay for
> it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece rather
> than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
>
> Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
was
> likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to repair
> them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is usually
a
> bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
to
> the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results in
a
> backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
collect
> data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
repair
> instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this. They
> came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis is
> ongoing.
>
> Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there are
> guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
the
> lack of qualified techs.
>
> Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
howdy,
> how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
have
> the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
still
> do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are doing
a
> lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking. I
> have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
factory's
> expense.
>
> The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true professionals,
> and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in every
> shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that even
> the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
relative
> to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
make.
> There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
I
> don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
Francisco,
> to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You don't
> go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your Aurora,
> and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
North.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > Jerry,
> > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
years.
> > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years I've
> been
> > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> without
> > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
of
> > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> contact
> > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories with
> the
> > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
dealer
> > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out several
> > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put the
> > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> dash
> > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> replace
> > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
factory
> > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when I
> > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
brg
> > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> still
> > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> another
> > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when it
> > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
another
> > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A couple
> of
> > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace the
> > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> right,
> > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
been
> > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
$360
> > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
$60.
> > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
antiseize
> > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside of
> the
> > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> supposed
> > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
the
> > plugs.
> > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is no
> > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
elevated
> > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
to
> > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
about
> > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all these
> > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> warranty
> > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
it
> > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
that
> I
> > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> rattle
> > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
shifter
> > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up and
> > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search for
> the
> > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
engine
> > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
engine
> > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
manifold.
> > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > Steve
> > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > particular
> > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
This
> > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> special
> > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> work
> > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
take
> > it
> > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > >
> > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that is
> > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout while
> > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool with
> > which
> > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
three
> > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four brake
> > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
of
> > the
> > > iceberg.
> > >
> > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want to
> > work
> > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> manufacturers
> > > make changes every year to major components and electrical/electronic
> > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas station
> > guys,
> > > then learn it as we go.
> > >
> > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
are
> > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> defies
> > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > >
> > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
Perhaps
> > Lon
> > > can refresh our memories.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour. the
> > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including insurance
> and
> > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge $75
an
> > > hour.
> > > > they do it because they can.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was slow
engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first call
I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting it
precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they phoned
to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until monday
when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city of
650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined the
problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a week.
Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I think
they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they had
off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
Tightened them up and that worked well.
Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as far
as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again with
a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much as
I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for those
that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
whole industry.
The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access to
the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality repairs.
These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
Steve
"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
common
> problems.
>
> The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
that
> is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands of
> someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart, and
> sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
is
> pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown that
> there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech. If
> it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay for
> it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece rather
> than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
>
> Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
was
> likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to repair
> them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is usually
a
> bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
to
> the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results in
a
> backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
collect
> data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
repair
> instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this. They
> came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis is
> ongoing.
>
> Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there are
> guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
the
> lack of qualified techs.
>
> Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
howdy,
> how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
have
> the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
still
> do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are doing
a
> lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking. I
> have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
factory's
> expense.
>
> The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true professionals,
> and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in every
> shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that even
> the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
relative
> to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
make.
> There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
I
> don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
Francisco,
> to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You don't
> go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your Aurora,
> and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
North.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > Jerry,
> > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
years.
> > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years I've
> been
> > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> without
> > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
of
> > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> contact
> > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories with
> the
> > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
dealer
> > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out several
> > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put the
> > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> dash
> > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> replace
> > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
factory
> > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when I
> > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
brg
> > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> still
> > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> another
> > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when it
> > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
another
> > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A couple
> of
> > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace the
> > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> right,
> > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
been
> > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
$360
> > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
$60.
> > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
antiseize
> > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside of
> the
> > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> supposed
> > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
the
> > plugs.
> > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is no
> > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
elevated
> > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
to
> > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
about
> > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all these
> > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> warranty
> > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
it
> > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
that
> I
> > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> rattle
> > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
shifter
> > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up and
> > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search for
> the
> > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
engine
> > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
engine
> > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
manifold.
> > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > Steve
> > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > particular
> > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
This
> > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> special
> > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> work
> > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
take
> > it
> > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > >
> > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that is
> > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout while
> > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool with
> > which
> > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
three
> > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four brake
> > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
of
> > the
> > > iceberg.
> > >
> > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want to
> > work
> > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> manufacturers
> > > make changes every year to major components and electrical/electronic
> > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas station
> > guys,
> > > then learn it as we go.
> > >
> > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
are
> > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> defies
> > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > >
> > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
Perhaps
> > Lon
> > > can refresh our memories.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour. the
> > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including insurance
> and
> > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge $75
an
> > > hour.
> > > > they do it because they can.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
#186
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Jerry,
On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was slow
engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first call
I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting it
precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they phoned
to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until monday
when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city of
650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined the
problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a week.
Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I think
they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they had
off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
Tightened them up and that worked well.
Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as far
as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again with
a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much as
I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for those
that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
whole industry.
The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access to
the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality repairs.
These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
Steve
"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
common
> problems.
>
> The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
that
> is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands of
> someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart, and
> sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
is
> pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown that
> there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech. If
> it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay for
> it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece rather
> than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
>
> Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
was
> likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to repair
> them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is usually
a
> bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
to
> the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results in
a
> backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
collect
> data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
repair
> instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this. They
> came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis is
> ongoing.
>
> Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there are
> guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
the
> lack of qualified techs.
>
> Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
howdy,
> how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
have
> the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
still
> do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are doing
a
> lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking. I
> have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
factory's
> expense.
>
> The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true professionals,
> and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in every
> shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that even
> the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
relative
> to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
make.
> There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
I
> don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
Francisco,
> to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You don't
> go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your Aurora,
> and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
North.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > Jerry,
> > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
years.
> > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years I've
> been
> > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> without
> > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
of
> > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> contact
> > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories with
> the
> > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
dealer
> > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out several
> > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put the
> > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> dash
> > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> replace
> > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
factory
> > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when I
> > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
brg
> > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> still
> > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> another
> > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when it
> > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
another
> > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A couple
> of
> > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace the
> > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> right,
> > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
been
> > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
$360
> > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
$60.
> > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
antiseize
> > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside of
> the
> > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> supposed
> > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
the
> > plugs.
> > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is no
> > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
elevated
> > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
to
> > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
about
> > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all these
> > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> warranty
> > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
it
> > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
that
> I
> > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> rattle
> > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
shifter
> > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up and
> > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search for
> the
> > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
engine
> > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
engine
> > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
manifold.
> > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > Steve
> > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > particular
> > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
This
> > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> special
> > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> work
> > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
take
> > it
> > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > >
> > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that is
> > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout while
> > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool with
> > which
> > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
three
> > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four brake
> > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
of
> > the
> > > iceberg.
> > >
> > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want to
> > work
> > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> manufacturers
> > > make changes every year to major components and electrical/electronic
> > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas station
> > guys,
> > > then learn it as we go.
> > >
> > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
are
> > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> defies
> > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > >
> > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
Perhaps
> > Lon
> > > can refresh our memories.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour. the
> > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including insurance
> and
> > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge $75
an
> > > hour.
> > > > they do it because they can.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was slow
engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first call
I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting it
precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they phoned
to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until monday
when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city of
650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined the
problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a week.
Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I think
they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they had
off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
Tightened them up and that worked well.
Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as far
as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again with
a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much as
I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for those
that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
whole industry.
The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access to
the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality repairs.
These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
Steve
"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
common
> problems.
>
> The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
that
> is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands of
> someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart, and
> sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
is
> pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown that
> there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech. If
> it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay for
> it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece rather
> than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
>
> Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
was
> likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to repair
> them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is usually
a
> bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
to
> the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results in
a
> backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
collect
> data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
repair
> instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this. They
> came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis is
> ongoing.
>
> Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there are
> guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
the
> lack of qualified techs.
>
> Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
howdy,
> how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
have
> the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
still
> do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are doing
a
> lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking. I
> have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
factory's
> expense.
>
> The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true professionals,
> and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in every
> shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that even
> the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
relative
> to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
make.
> There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
I
> don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
Francisco,
> to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You don't
> go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your Aurora,
> and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
North.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > Jerry,
> > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
years.
> > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years I've
> been
> > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> without
> > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
of
> > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> contact
> > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories with
> the
> > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
dealer
> > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out several
> > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put the
> > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> dash
> > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> replace
> > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
factory
> > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when I
> > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
brg
> > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> still
> > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> another
> > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when it
> > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
another
> > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A couple
> of
> > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace the
> > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> right,
> > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
been
> > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
$360
> > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
$60.
> > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
antiseize
> > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside of
> the
> > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> supposed
> > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
the
> > plugs.
> > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is no
> > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
elevated
> > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
to
> > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
about
> > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all these
> > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> warranty
> > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
it
> > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
that
> I
> > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> rattle
> > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
shifter
> > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up and
> > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search for
> the
> > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
engine
> > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
engine
> > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
manifold.
> > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > Steve
> > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > particular
> > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
This
> > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> special
> > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> work
> > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
take
> > it
> > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > >
> > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that is
> > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout while
> > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool with
> > which
> > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
three
> > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four brake
> > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
of
> > the
> > > iceberg.
> > >
> > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want to
> > work
> > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> manufacturers
> > > make changes every year to major components and electrical/electronic
> > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas station
> > guys,
> > > then learn it as we go.
> > >
> > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
are
> > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> defies
> > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > >
> > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
Perhaps
> > Lon
> > > can refresh our memories.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour. the
> > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including insurance
> and
> > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge $75
an
> > > hour.
> > > > they do it because they can.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
#187
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Jerry,
On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was slow
engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first call
I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting it
precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they phoned
to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until monday
when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city of
650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined the
problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a week.
Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I think
they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they had
off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
Tightened them up and that worked well.
Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as far
as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again with
a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much as
I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for those
that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
whole industry.
The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access to
the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality repairs.
These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
Steve
"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
common
> problems.
>
> The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
that
> is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands of
> someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart, and
> sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
is
> pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown that
> there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech. If
> it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay for
> it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece rather
> than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
>
> Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
was
> likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to repair
> them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is usually
a
> bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
to
> the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results in
a
> backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
collect
> data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
repair
> instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this. They
> came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis is
> ongoing.
>
> Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there are
> guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
the
> lack of qualified techs.
>
> Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
howdy,
> how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
have
> the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
still
> do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are doing
a
> lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking. I
> have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
factory's
> expense.
>
> The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true professionals,
> and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in every
> shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that even
> the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
relative
> to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
make.
> There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
I
> don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
Francisco,
> to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You don't
> go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your Aurora,
> and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
North.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > Jerry,
> > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
years.
> > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years I've
> been
> > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> without
> > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
of
> > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> contact
> > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories with
> the
> > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
dealer
> > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out several
> > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put the
> > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> dash
> > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> replace
> > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
factory
> > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when I
> > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
brg
> > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> still
> > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> another
> > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when it
> > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
another
> > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A couple
> of
> > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace the
> > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> right,
> > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
been
> > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
$360
> > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
$60.
> > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
antiseize
> > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside of
> the
> > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> supposed
> > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
the
> > plugs.
> > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is no
> > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
elevated
> > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
to
> > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
about
> > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all these
> > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> warranty
> > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
it
> > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
that
> I
> > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> rattle
> > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
shifter
> > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up and
> > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search for
> the
> > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
engine
> > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
engine
> > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
manifold.
> > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > Steve
> > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > particular
> > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
This
> > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> special
> > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> work
> > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
take
> > it
> > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > >
> > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that is
> > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout while
> > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool with
> > which
> > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
three
> > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four brake
> > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
of
> > the
> > > iceberg.
> > >
> > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want to
> > work
> > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> manufacturers
> > > make changes every year to major components and electrical/electronic
> > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas station
> > guys,
> > > then learn it as we go.
> > >
> > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
are
> > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> defies
> > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > >
> > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
Perhaps
> > Lon
> > > can refresh our memories.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour. the
> > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including insurance
> and
> > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge $75
an
> > > hour.
> > > > they do it because they can.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was slow
engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first call
I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting it
precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they phoned
to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until monday
when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city of
650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined the
problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a week.
Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I think
they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they had
off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
Tightened them up and that worked well.
Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as far
as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again with
a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much as
I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for those
that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
whole industry.
The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access to
the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality repairs.
These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
Steve
"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
common
> problems.
>
> The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
that
> is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands of
> someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart, and
> sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
is
> pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown that
> there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech. If
> it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay for
> it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece rather
> than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
>
> Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
was
> likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to repair
> them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is usually
a
> bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
to
> the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results in
a
> backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
collect
> data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
repair
> instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this. They
> came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis is
> ongoing.
>
> Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there are
> guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
the
> lack of qualified techs.
>
> Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
howdy,
> how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
have
> the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
still
> do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are doing
a
> lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking. I
> have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
factory's
> expense.
>
> The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true professionals,
> and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in every
> shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that even
> the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
relative
> to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
make.
> There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
I
> don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
Francisco,
> to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You don't
> go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your Aurora,
> and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
North.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > Jerry,
> > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
years.
> > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years I've
> been
> > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> without
> > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
of
> > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> contact
> > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories with
> the
> > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
dealer
> > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out several
> > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put the
> > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> dash
> > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> replace
> > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
factory
> > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when I
> > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
brg
> > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> still
> > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> another
> > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when it
> > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
another
> > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A couple
> of
> > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace the
> > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> right,
> > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
been
> > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
$360
> > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
$60.
> > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
antiseize
> > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside of
> the
> > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> supposed
> > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
the
> > plugs.
> > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is no
> > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
elevated
> > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
to
> > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
about
> > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all these
> > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> warranty
> > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
it
> > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
that
> I
> > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> rattle
> > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
shifter
> > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up and
> > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search for
> the
> > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
engine
> > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
engine
> > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
manifold.
> > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > Steve
> > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > particular
> > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
This
> > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> special
> > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> work
> > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
take
> > it
> > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > >
> > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that is
> > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout while
> > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool with
> > which
> > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
three
> > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four brake
> > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
of
> > the
> > > iceberg.
> > >
> > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want to
> > work
> > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> manufacturers
> > > make changes every year to major components and electrical/electronic
> > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas station
> > guys,
> > > then learn it as we go.
> > >
> > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
are
> > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> defies
> > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > >
> > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
Perhaps
> > Lon
> > > can refresh our memories.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour. the
> > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including insurance
> and
> > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge $75
an
> > > hour.
> > > > they do it because they can.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
#188
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Yeah, it's that, too. Unless you don't want to have warranty service, or
your recall performed.
Jerry
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:40070E89.190B8103@***.net...
> "The best service"?? Yes, it is often the only place to have a
> recall repaired, and have warrantee work done.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
your recall performed.
Jerry
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:40070E89.190B8103@***.net...
> "The best service"?? Yes, it is often the only place to have a
> recall repaired, and have warrantee work done.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
#189
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Yeah, it's that, too. Unless you don't want to have warranty service, or
your recall performed.
Jerry
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:40070E89.190B8103@***.net...
> "The best service"?? Yes, it is often the only place to have a
> recall repaired, and have warrantee work done.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
your recall performed.
Jerry
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:40070E89.190B8103@***.net...
> "The best service"?? Yes, it is often the only place to have a
> recall repaired, and have warrantee work done.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
#190
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Yeah, it's that, too. Unless you don't want to have warranty service, or
your recall performed.
Jerry
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:40070E89.190B8103@***.net...
> "The best service"?? Yes, it is often the only place to have a
> recall repaired, and have warrantee work done.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
your recall performed.
Jerry
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:40070E89.190B8103@***.net...
> "The best service"?? Yes, it is often the only place to have a
> recall repaired, and have warrantee work done.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>