What does the Mechanic get
#191
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
I can't speak for anyone else, but I also take personal responsibility for
what I do. You, as an owner, may have to talk to the service manager to get
your complaint heard, but if it has to do with something that I did as a
tech, I get to hear about it as soon as you leave his office, and probably
fix it for free, if indeed it is something that I missed or destroyed. In
that regard, I also do it for free if it isn't right, just like a certified
weldor. If there is a history of problems like that, I become unemployed.
I also find the fastest and easiest way to do things; that is my
livelihood, being able to do it faster and as good or better than the guy
next to me.
And, of course, Nathan, I meant NET. What else is there?
Jerry
"Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
news:xrENb.230249$Vu5.17034626@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
>
> certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
> point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
> inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
> either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
> responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
> the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper
without
> affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
> the end ill benefit from saving you money.
>
> > I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> i hope youre talking NET. :-)
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
>
>
>
what I do. You, as an owner, may have to talk to the service manager to get
your complaint heard, but if it has to do with something that I did as a
tech, I get to hear about it as soon as you leave his office, and probably
fix it for free, if indeed it is something that I missed or destroyed. In
that regard, I also do it for free if it isn't right, just like a certified
weldor. If there is a history of problems like that, I become unemployed.
I also find the fastest and easiest way to do things; that is my
livelihood, being able to do it faster and as good or better than the guy
next to me.
And, of course, Nathan, I meant NET. What else is there?
Jerry
"Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
news:xrENb.230249$Vu5.17034626@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
>
> certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
> point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
> inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
> either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
> responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
> the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper
without
> affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
> the end ill benefit from saving you money.
>
> > I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> i hope youre talking NET. :-)
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
>
>
>
#192
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
I can't speak for anyone else, but I also take personal responsibility for
what I do. You, as an owner, may have to talk to the service manager to get
your complaint heard, but if it has to do with something that I did as a
tech, I get to hear about it as soon as you leave his office, and probably
fix it for free, if indeed it is something that I missed or destroyed. In
that regard, I also do it for free if it isn't right, just like a certified
weldor. If there is a history of problems like that, I become unemployed.
I also find the fastest and easiest way to do things; that is my
livelihood, being able to do it faster and as good or better than the guy
next to me.
And, of course, Nathan, I meant NET. What else is there?
Jerry
"Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
news:xrENb.230249$Vu5.17034626@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
>
> certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
> point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
> inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
> either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
> responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
> the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper
without
> affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
> the end ill benefit from saving you money.
>
> > I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> i hope youre talking NET. :-)
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
>
>
>
what I do. You, as an owner, may have to talk to the service manager to get
your complaint heard, but if it has to do with something that I did as a
tech, I get to hear about it as soon as you leave his office, and probably
fix it for free, if indeed it is something that I missed or destroyed. In
that regard, I also do it for free if it isn't right, just like a certified
weldor. If there is a history of problems like that, I become unemployed.
I also find the fastest and easiest way to do things; that is my
livelihood, being able to do it faster and as good or better than the guy
next to me.
And, of course, Nathan, I meant NET. What else is there?
Jerry
"Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
news:xrENb.230249$Vu5.17034626@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
>
> certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
> point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
> inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
> either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
> responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
> the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper
without
> affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
> the end ill benefit from saving you money.
>
> > I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> i hope youre talking NET. :-)
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
>
>
>
#193
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
I can't speak for anyone else, but I also take personal responsibility for
what I do. You, as an owner, may have to talk to the service manager to get
your complaint heard, but if it has to do with something that I did as a
tech, I get to hear about it as soon as you leave his office, and probably
fix it for free, if indeed it is something that I missed or destroyed. In
that regard, I also do it for free if it isn't right, just like a certified
weldor. If there is a history of problems like that, I become unemployed.
I also find the fastest and easiest way to do things; that is my
livelihood, being able to do it faster and as good or better than the guy
next to me.
And, of course, Nathan, I meant NET. What else is there?
Jerry
"Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
news:xrENb.230249$Vu5.17034626@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
>
> certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
> point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
> inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
> either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
> responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
> the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper
without
> affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
> the end ill benefit from saving you money.
>
> > I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> i hope youre talking NET. :-)
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
>
>
>
what I do. You, as an owner, may have to talk to the service manager to get
your complaint heard, but if it has to do with something that I did as a
tech, I get to hear about it as soon as you leave his office, and probably
fix it for free, if indeed it is something that I missed or destroyed. In
that regard, I also do it for free if it isn't right, just like a certified
weldor. If there is a history of problems like that, I become unemployed.
I also find the fastest and easiest way to do things; that is my
livelihood, being able to do it faster and as good or better than the guy
next to me.
And, of course, Nathan, I meant NET. What else is there?
Jerry
"Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
news:xrENb.230249$Vu5.17034626@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job.
>
> certainly not.....but there are several differences which i would like to
> point out. if you hire me to do a job you are never paying for my own
> inefficiency. most of what i do is x-rayed by a CWI which means it is
> either absolutely _perfect_, or i dont get paid. being personally
> responsible if something goes wrong gives me even more incentive to ensure
> the job is done right. if i can find a way to do something cheaper
without
> affecting quality ill do it even if i lose money in the process because in
> the end ill benefit from saving you money.
>
> > I hope he makes 200k this year.
>
> i hope youre talking NET. :-)
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
>
>
>
#194
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Thanks for the info on the Aurora. It is unusual, indeed, to experience
those sorts of trans problems, and you are probably right concerning the
root cause. Aurora was an awesome car to drive, they handle like they are
on rails, but I never got attached to the way they look. Sometimes it takes
a couple of years for a new model to grow on me, but Aurora never did. The
later model Auroras are a little sleeker, but like all Oldsmobiles, they are
going away soon. Better get yours before they are gone for good.
I was an Arizona native until 2001, when we loaded up the RV and moved to
New Hampshire. I had never been here prior to moving, we just kind of
looked at some statistics on education and health, and looked at the map,
and decided New England was for us. I do miss Arizona's winter wheeling...
too hot in summer to do anything but go to the lake. I don't miss the
pollution and crowded-ness of the Phoenix area, though. I have always
wanted to visit Canada, and maybe now we will have a better opportunity,
seeing that we are only a couple of hours from the border.
I appreciate your open minded-ness, and the fact that you don't paint all
dealership guys with the same brush. Being a mechanic has been good to me,
financially and otherwise. It afforded me the chance to pick where I wanted
to live in the country, for one thing. It gives me a lot of flexibility
with my work hours, and I get to meet a lot of nice folks and drive their
cars. I am getting a little older, and I sometimes think that I shouldn't
be doing this anymore, but I can still outrun these little whippersnaps on
these jobs, so as long as I am doing that, I suppose I will stay in the
game. Still beats being a desk jockey, no offense.
Out of curiosity, did you pull the engine on the Aurora, like you said, or
did you drop it out the bottom? Kinda hard to drop it if you don't have a
rack, but you never know.
Jerry
"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:W7FNb.117697$ts4.55879@pd7tw3no...
> Jerry,
> On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
> got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was
slow
> engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first
call
> I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
> hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting
it
> precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they
phoned
> to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until
monday
> when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city
of
> 650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined
the
> problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a
week.
> Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
> parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
> another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
> the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I
think
> they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
> wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they
had
> off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
> When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
> Tightened them up and that worked well.
> Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
> indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
> harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as
far
> as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
> when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
> Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
> car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again
with
> a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
> civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
> actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
> helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
> insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
> cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
> they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much
as
> I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
> learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for
those
> that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
> whole industry.
> The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access
to
> the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality
repairs.
> These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
> of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
> rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
> this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
> bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
> live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
> let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
> Steve
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> > with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
> common
> > problems.
> >
> > The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> > woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
> that
> > is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands
of
> > someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart,
and
> > sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
> is
> > pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown
that
> > there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech.
If
> > it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay
for
> > it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece
rather
> > than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
> >
> > Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> > common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> > concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
> was
> > likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to
repair
> > them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is
usually
> a
> > bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> > component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
> to
> > the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> > failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results
in
> a
> > backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> > replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
> collect
> > data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
> repair
> > instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this.
They
> > came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> > allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis
is
> > ongoing.
> >
> > Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> > expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there
are
> > guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> > business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> > knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> > lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> > those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> > owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> > techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
> the
> > lack of qualified techs.
> >
> > Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
> howdy,
> > how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
> have
> > the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> > Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
> still
> > do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are
doing
> a
> > lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking.
I
> > have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
> factory's
> > expense.
> >
> > The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true
professionals,
> > and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in
every
> > shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that
even
> > the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
> relative
> > to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> > opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
> make.
> > There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
> I
> > don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
> Francisco,
> > to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> > spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You
don't
> > go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> > Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
> >
> > Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your
Aurora,
> > and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
> North.
> >
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> > news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > > Jerry,
> > > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
> years.
> > > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years
I've
> > been
> > > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> > without
> > > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
> of
> > > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> > contact
> > > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories
with
> > the
> > > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
> dealer
> > > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out
several
> > > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put
the
> > > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> > dash
> > > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> > replace
> > > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
> factory
> > > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when
I
> > > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
> brg
> > > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> > still
> > > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> > another
> > > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when
it
> > > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
> another
> > > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A
couple
> > of
> > > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace
the
> > > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> > right,
> > > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
> been
> > > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
> $360
> > > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
> $60.
> > > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
> antiseize
> > > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside
of
> > the
> > > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> > supposed
> > > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
> the
> > > plugs.
> > > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is
no
> > > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
> elevated
> > > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
> to
> > > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
> about
> > > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all
these
> > > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> > warranty
> > > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
> it
> > > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
> that
> > I
> > > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> > rattle
> > > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
> shifter
> > > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up
and
> > > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search
for
> > the
> > > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
> engine
> > > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
> engine
> > > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
> manifold.
> > > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > > Steve
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > > particular
> > > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
> This
> > > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> > special
> > > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> > work
> > > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
> take
> > > it
> > > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > > >
> > > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that
is
> > > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout
while
> > > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool
with
> > > which
> > > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
> three
> > > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four
brake
> > > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
> of
> > > the
> > > > iceberg.
> > > >
> > > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want
to
> > > work
> > > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> > manufacturers
> > > > make changes every year to major components and
electrical/electronic
> > > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas
station
> > > guys,
> > > > then learn it as we go.
> > > >
> > > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
> are
> > > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> > defies
> > > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > > >
> > > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
> Perhaps
> > > Lon
> > > > can refresh our memories.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour.
the
> > > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including
insurance
> > and
> > > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge
$75
> an
> > > > hour.
> > > > > they do it because they can.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
those sorts of trans problems, and you are probably right concerning the
root cause. Aurora was an awesome car to drive, they handle like they are
on rails, but I never got attached to the way they look. Sometimes it takes
a couple of years for a new model to grow on me, but Aurora never did. The
later model Auroras are a little sleeker, but like all Oldsmobiles, they are
going away soon. Better get yours before they are gone for good.
I was an Arizona native until 2001, when we loaded up the RV and moved to
New Hampshire. I had never been here prior to moving, we just kind of
looked at some statistics on education and health, and looked at the map,
and decided New England was for us. I do miss Arizona's winter wheeling...
too hot in summer to do anything but go to the lake. I don't miss the
pollution and crowded-ness of the Phoenix area, though. I have always
wanted to visit Canada, and maybe now we will have a better opportunity,
seeing that we are only a couple of hours from the border.
I appreciate your open minded-ness, and the fact that you don't paint all
dealership guys with the same brush. Being a mechanic has been good to me,
financially and otherwise. It afforded me the chance to pick where I wanted
to live in the country, for one thing. It gives me a lot of flexibility
with my work hours, and I get to meet a lot of nice folks and drive their
cars. I am getting a little older, and I sometimes think that I shouldn't
be doing this anymore, but I can still outrun these little whippersnaps on
these jobs, so as long as I am doing that, I suppose I will stay in the
game. Still beats being a desk jockey, no offense.
Out of curiosity, did you pull the engine on the Aurora, like you said, or
did you drop it out the bottom? Kinda hard to drop it if you don't have a
rack, but you never know.
Jerry
"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:W7FNb.117697$ts4.55879@pd7tw3no...
> Jerry,
> On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
> got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was
slow
> engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first
call
> I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
> hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting
it
> precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they
phoned
> to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until
monday
> when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city
of
> 650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined
the
> problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a
week.
> Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
> parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
> another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
> the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I
think
> they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
> wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they
had
> off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
> When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
> Tightened them up and that worked well.
> Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
> indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
> harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as
far
> as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
> when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
> Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
> car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again
with
> a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
> civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
> actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
> helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
> insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
> cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
> they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much
as
> I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
> learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for
those
> that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
> whole industry.
> The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access
to
> the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality
repairs.
> These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
> of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
> rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
> this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
> bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
> live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
> let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
> Steve
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> > with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
> common
> > problems.
> >
> > The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> > woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
> that
> > is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands
of
> > someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart,
and
> > sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
> is
> > pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown
that
> > there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech.
If
> > it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay
for
> > it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece
rather
> > than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
> >
> > Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> > common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> > concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
> was
> > likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to
repair
> > them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is
usually
> a
> > bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> > component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
> to
> > the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> > failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results
in
> a
> > backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> > replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
> collect
> > data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
> repair
> > instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this.
They
> > came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> > allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis
is
> > ongoing.
> >
> > Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> > expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there
are
> > guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> > business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> > knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> > lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> > those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> > owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> > techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
> the
> > lack of qualified techs.
> >
> > Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
> howdy,
> > how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
> have
> > the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> > Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
> still
> > do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are
doing
> a
> > lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking.
I
> > have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
> factory's
> > expense.
> >
> > The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true
professionals,
> > and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in
every
> > shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that
even
> > the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
> relative
> > to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> > opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
> make.
> > There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
> I
> > don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
> Francisco,
> > to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> > spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You
don't
> > go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> > Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
> >
> > Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your
Aurora,
> > and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
> North.
> >
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> > news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > > Jerry,
> > > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
> years.
> > > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years
I've
> > been
> > > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> > without
> > > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
> of
> > > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> > contact
> > > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories
with
> > the
> > > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
> dealer
> > > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out
several
> > > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put
the
> > > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> > dash
> > > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> > replace
> > > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
> factory
> > > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when
I
> > > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
> brg
> > > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> > still
> > > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> > another
> > > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when
it
> > > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
> another
> > > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A
couple
> > of
> > > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace
the
> > > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> > right,
> > > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
> been
> > > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
> $360
> > > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
> $60.
> > > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
> antiseize
> > > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside
of
> > the
> > > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> > supposed
> > > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
> the
> > > plugs.
> > > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is
no
> > > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
> elevated
> > > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
> to
> > > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
> about
> > > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all
these
> > > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> > warranty
> > > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
> it
> > > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
> that
> > I
> > > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> > rattle
> > > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
> shifter
> > > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up
and
> > > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search
for
> > the
> > > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
> engine
> > > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
> engine
> > > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
> manifold.
> > > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > > Steve
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > > particular
> > > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
> This
> > > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> > special
> > > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> > work
> > > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
> take
> > > it
> > > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > > >
> > > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that
is
> > > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout
while
> > > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool
with
> > > which
> > > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
> three
> > > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four
brake
> > > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
> of
> > > the
> > > > iceberg.
> > > >
> > > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want
to
> > > work
> > > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> > manufacturers
> > > > make changes every year to major components and
electrical/electronic
> > > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas
station
> > > guys,
> > > > then learn it as we go.
> > > >
> > > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
> are
> > > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> > defies
> > > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > > >
> > > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
> Perhaps
> > > Lon
> > > > can refresh our memories.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour.
the
> > > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including
insurance
> > and
> > > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge
$75
> an
> > > > hour.
> > > > > they do it because they can.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
#195
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Thanks for the info on the Aurora. It is unusual, indeed, to experience
those sorts of trans problems, and you are probably right concerning the
root cause. Aurora was an awesome car to drive, they handle like they are
on rails, but I never got attached to the way they look. Sometimes it takes
a couple of years for a new model to grow on me, but Aurora never did. The
later model Auroras are a little sleeker, but like all Oldsmobiles, they are
going away soon. Better get yours before they are gone for good.
I was an Arizona native until 2001, when we loaded up the RV and moved to
New Hampshire. I had never been here prior to moving, we just kind of
looked at some statistics on education and health, and looked at the map,
and decided New England was for us. I do miss Arizona's winter wheeling...
too hot in summer to do anything but go to the lake. I don't miss the
pollution and crowded-ness of the Phoenix area, though. I have always
wanted to visit Canada, and maybe now we will have a better opportunity,
seeing that we are only a couple of hours from the border.
I appreciate your open minded-ness, and the fact that you don't paint all
dealership guys with the same brush. Being a mechanic has been good to me,
financially and otherwise. It afforded me the chance to pick where I wanted
to live in the country, for one thing. It gives me a lot of flexibility
with my work hours, and I get to meet a lot of nice folks and drive their
cars. I am getting a little older, and I sometimes think that I shouldn't
be doing this anymore, but I can still outrun these little whippersnaps on
these jobs, so as long as I am doing that, I suppose I will stay in the
game. Still beats being a desk jockey, no offense.
Out of curiosity, did you pull the engine on the Aurora, like you said, or
did you drop it out the bottom? Kinda hard to drop it if you don't have a
rack, but you never know.
Jerry
"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:W7FNb.117697$ts4.55879@pd7tw3no...
> Jerry,
> On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
> got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was
slow
> engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first
call
> I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
> hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting
it
> precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they
phoned
> to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until
monday
> when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city
of
> 650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined
the
> problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a
week.
> Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
> parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
> another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
> the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I
think
> they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
> wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they
had
> off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
> When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
> Tightened them up and that worked well.
> Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
> indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
> harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as
far
> as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
> when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
> Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
> car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again
with
> a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
> civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
> actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
> helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
> insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
> cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
> they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much
as
> I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
> learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for
those
> that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
> whole industry.
> The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access
to
> the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality
repairs.
> These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
> of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
> rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
> this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
> bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
> live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
> let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
> Steve
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> > with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
> common
> > problems.
> >
> > The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> > woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
> that
> > is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands
of
> > someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart,
and
> > sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
> is
> > pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown
that
> > there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech.
If
> > it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay
for
> > it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece
rather
> > than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
> >
> > Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> > common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> > concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
> was
> > likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to
repair
> > them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is
usually
> a
> > bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> > component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
> to
> > the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> > failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results
in
> a
> > backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> > replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
> collect
> > data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
> repair
> > instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this.
They
> > came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> > allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis
is
> > ongoing.
> >
> > Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> > expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there
are
> > guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> > business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> > knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> > lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> > those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> > owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> > techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
> the
> > lack of qualified techs.
> >
> > Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
> howdy,
> > how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
> have
> > the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> > Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
> still
> > do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are
doing
> a
> > lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking.
I
> > have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
> factory's
> > expense.
> >
> > The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true
professionals,
> > and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in
every
> > shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that
even
> > the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
> relative
> > to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> > opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
> make.
> > There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
> I
> > don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
> Francisco,
> > to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> > spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You
don't
> > go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> > Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
> >
> > Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your
Aurora,
> > and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
> North.
> >
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> > news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > > Jerry,
> > > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
> years.
> > > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years
I've
> > been
> > > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> > without
> > > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
> of
> > > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> > contact
> > > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories
with
> > the
> > > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
> dealer
> > > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out
several
> > > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put
the
> > > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> > dash
> > > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> > replace
> > > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
> factory
> > > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when
I
> > > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
> brg
> > > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> > still
> > > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> > another
> > > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when
it
> > > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
> another
> > > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A
couple
> > of
> > > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace
the
> > > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> > right,
> > > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
> been
> > > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
> $360
> > > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
> $60.
> > > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
> antiseize
> > > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside
of
> > the
> > > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> > supposed
> > > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
> the
> > > plugs.
> > > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is
no
> > > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
> elevated
> > > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
> to
> > > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
> about
> > > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all
these
> > > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> > warranty
> > > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
> it
> > > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
> that
> > I
> > > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> > rattle
> > > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
> shifter
> > > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up
and
> > > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search
for
> > the
> > > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
> engine
> > > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
> engine
> > > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
> manifold.
> > > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > > Steve
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > > particular
> > > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
> This
> > > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> > special
> > > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> > work
> > > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
> take
> > > it
> > > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > > >
> > > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that
is
> > > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout
while
> > > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool
with
> > > which
> > > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
> three
> > > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four
brake
> > > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
> of
> > > the
> > > > iceberg.
> > > >
> > > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want
to
> > > work
> > > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> > manufacturers
> > > > make changes every year to major components and
electrical/electronic
> > > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas
station
> > > guys,
> > > > then learn it as we go.
> > > >
> > > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
> are
> > > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> > defies
> > > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > > >
> > > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
> Perhaps
> > > Lon
> > > > can refresh our memories.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour.
the
> > > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including
insurance
> > and
> > > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge
$75
> an
> > > > hour.
> > > > > they do it because they can.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
those sorts of trans problems, and you are probably right concerning the
root cause. Aurora was an awesome car to drive, they handle like they are
on rails, but I never got attached to the way they look. Sometimes it takes
a couple of years for a new model to grow on me, but Aurora never did. The
later model Auroras are a little sleeker, but like all Oldsmobiles, they are
going away soon. Better get yours before they are gone for good.
I was an Arizona native until 2001, when we loaded up the RV and moved to
New Hampshire. I had never been here prior to moving, we just kind of
looked at some statistics on education and health, and looked at the map,
and decided New England was for us. I do miss Arizona's winter wheeling...
too hot in summer to do anything but go to the lake. I don't miss the
pollution and crowded-ness of the Phoenix area, though. I have always
wanted to visit Canada, and maybe now we will have a better opportunity,
seeing that we are only a couple of hours from the border.
I appreciate your open minded-ness, and the fact that you don't paint all
dealership guys with the same brush. Being a mechanic has been good to me,
financially and otherwise. It afforded me the chance to pick where I wanted
to live in the country, for one thing. It gives me a lot of flexibility
with my work hours, and I get to meet a lot of nice folks and drive their
cars. I am getting a little older, and I sometimes think that I shouldn't
be doing this anymore, but I can still outrun these little whippersnaps on
these jobs, so as long as I am doing that, I suppose I will stay in the
game. Still beats being a desk jockey, no offense.
Out of curiosity, did you pull the engine on the Aurora, like you said, or
did you drop it out the bottom? Kinda hard to drop it if you don't have a
rack, but you never know.
Jerry
"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:W7FNb.117697$ts4.55879@pd7tw3no...
> Jerry,
> On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
> got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was
slow
> engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first
call
> I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
> hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting
it
> precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they
phoned
> to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until
monday
> when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city
of
> 650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined
the
> problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a
week.
> Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
> parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
> another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
> the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I
think
> they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
> wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they
had
> off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
> When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
> Tightened them up and that worked well.
> Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
> indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
> harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as
far
> as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
> when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
> Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
> car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again
with
> a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
> civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
> actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
> helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
> insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
> cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
> they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much
as
> I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
> learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for
those
> that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
> whole industry.
> The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access
to
> the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality
repairs.
> These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
> of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
> rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
> this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
> bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
> live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
> let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
> Steve
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> > with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
> common
> > problems.
> >
> > The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> > woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
> that
> > is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands
of
> > someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart,
and
> > sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
> is
> > pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown
that
> > there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech.
If
> > it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay
for
> > it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece
rather
> > than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
> >
> > Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> > common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> > concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
> was
> > likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to
repair
> > them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is
usually
> a
> > bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> > component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
> to
> > the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> > failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results
in
> a
> > backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> > replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
> collect
> > data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
> repair
> > instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this.
They
> > came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> > allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis
is
> > ongoing.
> >
> > Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> > expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there
are
> > guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> > business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> > knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> > lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> > those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> > owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> > techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
> the
> > lack of qualified techs.
> >
> > Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
> howdy,
> > how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
> have
> > the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> > Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
> still
> > do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are
doing
> a
> > lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking.
I
> > have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
> factory's
> > expense.
> >
> > The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true
professionals,
> > and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in
every
> > shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that
even
> > the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
> relative
> > to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> > opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
> make.
> > There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
> I
> > don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
> Francisco,
> > to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> > spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You
don't
> > go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> > Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
> >
> > Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your
Aurora,
> > and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
> North.
> >
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> > news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > > Jerry,
> > > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
> years.
> > > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years
I've
> > been
> > > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> > without
> > > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
> of
> > > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> > contact
> > > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories
with
> > the
> > > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
> dealer
> > > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out
several
> > > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put
the
> > > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> > dash
> > > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> > replace
> > > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
> factory
> > > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when
I
> > > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
> brg
> > > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> > still
> > > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> > another
> > > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when
it
> > > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
> another
> > > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A
couple
> > of
> > > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace
the
> > > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> > right,
> > > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
> been
> > > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
> $360
> > > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
> $60.
> > > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
> antiseize
> > > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside
of
> > the
> > > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> > supposed
> > > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
> the
> > > plugs.
> > > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is
no
> > > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
> elevated
> > > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
> to
> > > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
> about
> > > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all
these
> > > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> > warranty
> > > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
> it
> > > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
> that
> > I
> > > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> > rattle
> > > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
> shifter
> > > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up
and
> > > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search
for
> > the
> > > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
> engine
> > > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
> engine
> > > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
> manifold.
> > > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > > Steve
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > > particular
> > > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
> This
> > > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> > special
> > > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> > work
> > > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
> take
> > > it
> > > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > > >
> > > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that
is
> > > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout
while
> > > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool
with
> > > which
> > > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
> three
> > > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four
brake
> > > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
> of
> > > the
> > > > iceberg.
> > > >
> > > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want
to
> > > work
> > > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> > manufacturers
> > > > make changes every year to major components and
electrical/electronic
> > > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas
station
> > > guys,
> > > > then learn it as we go.
> > > >
> > > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
> are
> > > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> > defies
> > > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > > >
> > > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
> Perhaps
> > > Lon
> > > > can refresh our memories.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour.
the
> > > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including
insurance
> > and
> > > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge
$75
> an
> > > > hour.
> > > > > they do it because they can.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
#196
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
Thanks for the info on the Aurora. It is unusual, indeed, to experience
those sorts of trans problems, and you are probably right concerning the
root cause. Aurora was an awesome car to drive, they handle like they are
on rails, but I never got attached to the way they look. Sometimes it takes
a couple of years for a new model to grow on me, but Aurora never did. The
later model Auroras are a little sleeker, but like all Oldsmobiles, they are
going away soon. Better get yours before they are gone for good.
I was an Arizona native until 2001, when we loaded up the RV and moved to
New Hampshire. I had never been here prior to moving, we just kind of
looked at some statistics on education and health, and looked at the map,
and decided New England was for us. I do miss Arizona's winter wheeling...
too hot in summer to do anything but go to the lake. I don't miss the
pollution and crowded-ness of the Phoenix area, though. I have always
wanted to visit Canada, and maybe now we will have a better opportunity,
seeing that we are only a couple of hours from the border.
I appreciate your open minded-ness, and the fact that you don't paint all
dealership guys with the same brush. Being a mechanic has been good to me,
financially and otherwise. It afforded me the chance to pick where I wanted
to live in the country, for one thing. It gives me a lot of flexibility
with my work hours, and I get to meet a lot of nice folks and drive their
cars. I am getting a little older, and I sometimes think that I shouldn't
be doing this anymore, but I can still outrun these little whippersnaps on
these jobs, so as long as I am doing that, I suppose I will stay in the
game. Still beats being a desk jockey, no offense.
Out of curiosity, did you pull the engine on the Aurora, like you said, or
did you drop it out the bottom? Kinda hard to drop it if you don't have a
rack, but you never know.
Jerry
"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:W7FNb.117697$ts4.55879@pd7tw3no...
> Jerry,
> On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
> got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was
slow
> engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first
call
> I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
> hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting
it
> precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they
phoned
> to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until
monday
> when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city
of
> 650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined
the
> problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a
week.
> Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
> parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
> another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
> the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I
think
> they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
> wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they
had
> off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
> When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
> Tightened them up and that worked well.
> Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
> indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
> harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as
far
> as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
> when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
> Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
> car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again
with
> a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
> civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
> actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
> helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
> insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
> cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
> they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much
as
> I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
> learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for
those
> that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
> whole industry.
> The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access
to
> the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality
repairs.
> These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
> of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
> rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
> this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
> bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
> live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
> let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
> Steve
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> > with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
> common
> > problems.
> >
> > The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> > woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
> that
> > is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands
of
> > someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart,
and
> > sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
> is
> > pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown
that
> > there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech.
If
> > it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay
for
> > it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece
rather
> > than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
> >
> > Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> > common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> > concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
> was
> > likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to
repair
> > them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is
usually
> a
> > bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> > component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
> to
> > the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> > failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results
in
> a
> > backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> > replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
> collect
> > data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
> repair
> > instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this.
They
> > came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> > allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis
is
> > ongoing.
> >
> > Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> > expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there
are
> > guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> > business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> > knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> > lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> > those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> > owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> > techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
> the
> > lack of qualified techs.
> >
> > Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
> howdy,
> > how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
> have
> > the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> > Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
> still
> > do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are
doing
> a
> > lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking.
I
> > have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
> factory's
> > expense.
> >
> > The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true
professionals,
> > and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in
every
> > shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that
even
> > the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
> relative
> > to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> > opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
> make.
> > There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
> I
> > don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
> Francisco,
> > to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> > spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You
don't
> > go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> > Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
> >
> > Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your
Aurora,
> > and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
> North.
> >
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> > news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > > Jerry,
> > > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
> years.
> > > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years
I've
> > been
> > > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> > without
> > > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
> of
> > > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> > contact
> > > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories
with
> > the
> > > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
> dealer
> > > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out
several
> > > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put
the
> > > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> > dash
> > > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> > replace
> > > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
> factory
> > > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when
I
> > > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
> brg
> > > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> > still
> > > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> > another
> > > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when
it
> > > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
> another
> > > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A
couple
> > of
> > > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace
the
> > > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> > right,
> > > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
> been
> > > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
> $360
> > > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
> $60.
> > > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
> antiseize
> > > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside
of
> > the
> > > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> > supposed
> > > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
> the
> > > plugs.
> > > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is
no
> > > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
> elevated
> > > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
> to
> > > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
> about
> > > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all
these
> > > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> > warranty
> > > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
> it
> > > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
> that
> > I
> > > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> > rattle
> > > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
> shifter
> > > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up
and
> > > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search
for
> > the
> > > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
> engine
> > > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
> engine
> > > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
> manifold.
> > > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > > Steve
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > > particular
> > > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
> This
> > > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> > special
> > > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> > work
> > > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
> take
> > > it
> > > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > > >
> > > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that
is
> > > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout
while
> > > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool
with
> > > which
> > > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
> three
> > > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four
brake
> > > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
> of
> > > the
> > > > iceberg.
> > > >
> > > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want
to
> > > work
> > > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> > manufacturers
> > > > make changes every year to major components and
electrical/electronic
> > > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas
station
> > > guys,
> > > > then learn it as we go.
> > > >
> > > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
> are
> > > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> > defies
> > > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > > >
> > > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
> Perhaps
> > > Lon
> > > > can refresh our memories.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour.
the
> > > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including
insurance
> > and
> > > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge
$75
> an
> > > > hour.
> > > > > they do it because they can.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
those sorts of trans problems, and you are probably right concerning the
root cause. Aurora was an awesome car to drive, they handle like they are
on rails, but I never got attached to the way they look. Sometimes it takes
a couple of years for a new model to grow on me, but Aurora never did. The
later model Auroras are a little sleeker, but like all Oldsmobiles, they are
going away soon. Better get yours before they are gone for good.
I was an Arizona native until 2001, when we loaded up the RV and moved to
New Hampshire. I had never been here prior to moving, we just kind of
looked at some statistics on education and health, and looked at the map,
and decided New England was for us. I do miss Arizona's winter wheeling...
too hot in summer to do anything but go to the lake. I don't miss the
pollution and crowded-ness of the Phoenix area, though. I have always
wanted to visit Canada, and maybe now we will have a better opportunity,
seeing that we are only a couple of hours from the border.
I appreciate your open minded-ness, and the fact that you don't paint all
dealership guys with the same brush. Being a mechanic has been good to me,
financially and otherwise. It afforded me the chance to pick where I wanted
to live in the country, for one thing. It gives me a lot of flexibility
with my work hours, and I get to meet a lot of nice folks and drive their
cars. I am getting a little older, and I sometimes think that I shouldn't
be doing this anymore, but I can still outrun these little whippersnaps on
these jobs, so as long as I am doing that, I suppose I will stay in the
game. Still beats being a desk jockey, no offense.
Out of curiosity, did you pull the engine on the Aurora, like you said, or
did you drop it out the bottom? Kinda hard to drop it if you don't have a
rack, but you never know.
Jerry
"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:W7FNb.117697$ts4.55879@pd7tw3no...
> Jerry,
> On my 4t80e, it was simply a fried clutch pack, I suspect previous owner
> got it stuck and rocked it, dr to rev. Warranty was almost up, it was
slow
> engaging reverse and fluid was burnt. Otherwise worked okay. The first
call
> I got from them was that it might not be under warranty because the fluid
> hadn't been changed. Then they called to say the shifter wasn't putting
it
> precisely on the detent and they were going to adjust it. Then they
phoned
> to say they now had it jammed in Park and I would have to wait until
monday
> when the regular trans guy was back (this is a bick dealership in a city
of
> 650,000, not a blink town on the Prairies). The next week he determined
the
> problem internal and tore it down. No parts in Canada, had to wait a
week.
> Week later parts had been shipped to the Caribean by mistake. Week later
> parts are in, tech starts assembling, decides to replace more parts. Wait
> another week. Puts it in, won't work right, I never did know exactly what
> the symptons. Pulls it out and apart then back in, still no good. I
think
> they had it out one more time before ordering the exchange unit. Another
> wait. Got it back and the antifreeze leaking from one heater hose they
had
> off. Shifter still not feeling right and lining up with the indicater.
> When I finally looked at it the shifter all 4 mounting bolts were loose.
> Tightened them up and that worked well.
> Gearshift indicater broke because the harness attached to the light in the
> indicater was not clipped back in place right. All the mounts for the
> harness were one hole off. When put into park the harness stretched as
far
> as it would go then broke the indicater off. All of that had been removed
> when the console was removed to replace the cigar lighter.
> Ton of problems with the Aurora, but quite frankly, it's my most favourite
> car since I gave up Corvettes. I'm going to look for an 01 soon, again
with
> a 4.0. Driving it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, yet
> civilized enough to carry clients around in (I sell real estate now). I
> actually enjoyed working on it. It had been a number of years for me and
> helped to reassure me that I could still do it. Since then I bought an
> insurance writeoff cherokee and fixed it up and am getting back into the
> cars in a hobby way. I agree, techs are worth every cent they get if
> they're good. It always irked me that a union postal worker made as much
as
> I did after 5 years and I could learn his job in an hour and he couldn't
> learn mine in a year. I took pride in what I did and have respect for
those
> that do it today. These morons that worked on my Aurora do damage to the
> whole industry.
> The point of my original post was that while the dealerships have access
to
> the best information and training it is not an assurance of quality
repairs.
> These guys that worked on my car were all half my age, wouldn't know a set
> of ign points if they jumped up and bit the end of their joint and can't
> rely on the excuse of being one of those that flunked out of McSchool and
> this was the fall back. Maybe we're not paying enough to attract people
> bright and consiencous enough. As was said, it's a free market economy we
> live in. We may be in a period of flux while things find their levels.
> let's hope so. Good talking to you. Where do you make home?
> Steve
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:4006d2ba$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > I am sorry to hear about your troubles, Steve. I am intimately familiar
> > with the Aurora, and all of the things that you talked about are very
> common
> > problems.
> >
> > The trim pieces in an Aurora are un-Godly expensive. They aren't just
> > woodgrained plastic, they are shaped pieces of walnut or whatever wood
> that
> > is. Unfortunately, they also break or chip rather easily in the hands
of
> > someone not familiar with how the interior is supposed to come apart,
and
> > sometimes they break even if you do know how to get them apart. Factory
> is
> > pretty particular about paying for these things. It has to be shown
that
> > there is a factory defect, not just a mistake on the part of the tech.
If
> > it is broken by the tech, the dealer (and sometimes the tech) must pay
for
> > it. You can hopefully appreciate an effort to repair a trim piece
rather
> > than shell out $500-700 for a new one.
> >
> > Transmission problems on the 4T80E aren't usually very serious. It is
> > common to have TCC engagement/slip problems, and the repairs for this
> > concern vary. Depending on when it was that you had yours serviced, it
> was
> > likely that the factory was not yet allowing techs in the field to
repair
> > them. When a new piece or component comes to the field, there is
usually
> a
> > bulletin that comes out directing techs to not repair, but replace the
> > component. That is so that they can return things (like your transaxle)
> to
> > the factory engineering teams to take apart and see the root cause of
> > failure, and make improvements on the design. Many times, this results
in
> a
> > backorder situation, as they are trying to build new cars and send out
> > replacement assemblies at the same time. The factory will sometimes
> collect
> > data this way for several years before allowing techs in the field to
> repair
> > instead of replace. Allison transmissions in trucks are like this.
They
> > came out about three years ago in GM trucks, and we are just now being
> > allowed to service only very specific parts of it, because the analysis
is
> > ongoing.
> >
> > Yes, mistakes happen. Yes, wiresets for Northstar-type engines are
> > expensive. Yes, there are morons at the dealership level. Yes, there
are
> > guys in just about every garage of any size that probably don't have any
> > business working on cars. The industry has become much more
> > knowledge-intense. Used to be that wrenching was what you did when you
> > lacked other skills, like a fallback. It isn't so anymore, but some of
> > those guys that fell back are still lingering around, combined with shop
> > owners trying to "grow their own" technicians due to a lack of qualified
> > techs in the workforce. I guess the quality downturn is symptomatic of
> the
> > lack of qualified techs.
> >
> > Speaking of your oil leak... we don't see those much anymore, but boy
> howdy,
> > how we made a bunch of money fixing those. Auroras pretty much need to
> have
> > the engine removed to do it (it's easier, anyway), but the Cadillac
> > Northstars were done in-car. I only do 3-4 of them a year now, but I
> still
> > do them in about 4-5 hours. Book time is about 18. Lately, we are
doing
> a
> > lot of piston replacements in late model Cadillac's for cold knocking.
I
> > have that procedure down to about 7.5 hours, and it pays 20 at the
> factory's
> > expense.
> >
> > The vast majority of the dealer techs I have known are true
professionals,
> > and worth the money that they make and more. There are boneheads in
every
> > shop I have ever worked in as well. It is probably fair to say that
even
> > the pros act like boneheads once in awhile. Everyone has a story
> relative
> > to their own automotive repair nightmare. It seems like the prevailing
> > opinion on this thread is that mechanics don't deserve the money they
> make.
> > There are a couple of dissenters, but that is the impression that I get.
> I
> > don't begrudge anyone's living, from the sanitation worker in San
> Francisco,
> > to Bill Gates. It is a free market society, and everyone is entitled to
> > spend their money any way they like. I am pretty sure that Nathan isn't
> > donating his skill and equipment when he goes to a welding job. You
don't
> > go out and buy Rubicon's and Dodge Ram's on minimum wage. More power to
> > Nathan, I hope he makes 200k this year.
> >
> > Well, anyway, I just wanted to respond to you directly about your
Aurora,
> > and commiserate with you a little. Have a good day in the Great White
> North.
> >
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
> > news:NbgNb.94441$X%5.25595@pd7tw2no...
> > > Jerry,
> > > I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17
> years.
> > > I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years
I've
> > been
> > > standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you
> > without
> > > question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality
> of
> > > workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had
> > contact
> > > with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories
with
> > the
> > > dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling
> dealer
> > > had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out
several
> > > times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put
the
> > > indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the
> > dash
> > > bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to
> > replace
> > > the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a
> factory
> > > reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when
I
> > > drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch
> brg
> > > packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and
> > still
> > > going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to
> > another
> > > dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when
it
> > > lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and
> another
> > > cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A
couple
> > of
> > > weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace
the
> > > entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem
> > right,
> > > the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had
> been
> > > replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay
> $360
> > > for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for
> $60.
> > > After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
> > > (they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
> > > mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same
> antiseize
> > > grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside
of
> > the
> > > plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is
> > supposed
> > > to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of
> the
> > > plugs.
> > > I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is
no
> > > assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things
> elevated
> > > to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried
> to
> > > feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what
> about
> > > the average consumer that doesn't?
> > > Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all
these
> > > stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every
> > warranty
> > > repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but
> it
> > > was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem
> that
> > I
> > > had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash
> > rattle
> > > and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken
> shifter
> > > indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up
and
> > > bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search
for
> > the
> > > problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the
> engine
> > > myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
> > > discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the
> engine
> > > wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust
> manifold.
> > > These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
> > > Steve
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
> > > particular
> > > > service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour.
> This
> > > > isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every
> > special
> > > > tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we
> > work
> > > > on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to
> take
> > > it
> > > > somewhere else, we don't do that here."
> > > >
> > > > Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that
is
> > > > capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout
while
> > > > turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool
with
> > > which
> > > > to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just
> three
> > > > examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four
brake
> > > > lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip
> of
> > > the
> > > > iceberg.
> > > >
> > > > Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want
to
> > > work
> > > > at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the
> > manufacturers
> > > > make changes every year to major components and
electrical/electronic
> > > > systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas
station
> > > guys,
> > > > then learn it as we go.
> > > >
> > > > For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there
> are
> > > > still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It
> > defies
> > > > logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> > > > "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
> > > >
> > > > Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago.
> Perhaps
> > > Lon
> > > > can refresh our memories.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > > > > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour.
the
> > > > > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including
insurance
> > and
> > > > > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge
$75
> an
> > > > hour.
> > > > > they do it because they can.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Nathan W. Collier
> > > > > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > > > > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
#197
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:07:20 GMT, "Nathan Collier"
<JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote:
>"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
>news:4005764b$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> if you don't want to pay someone to do, gear up and do it
>> yourself.
>
>i cant see how knowing how to do something justifies sticking it to those
>who dont. im lucky in two ways....i rarely keep a new vehicle much more
>than a year so im always under warranty, and there is no vehicular repair i
>cant do myself anyway. i feel sorry though for those who cant and must rely
>upon dealerships to repair their vehicles out of warranty. i feel sorry for
>everyone with the triton v10 head out of warranty that had to pay for an
>entire new head because the dealership was incapable of building up the head
>and tapping new plug threads or paying a machine shop to do it for them (v10
>was bad for blowing plugs out of their holes taking the threads with them).
>it happened on my brothers but he had an extended warranty. i feel bad for
>everyone whos paid $200 in labor costs to have an alternator swapped when i
>know one person that got theirs swapped and installed at autozone for FREE
>(labor). i could go on but im bored with this now.
You know, Nate, I wouldn't expect you to weld up a bumper for cheap.
Why would you expect me to work on your car for cheap?
I work from the flat rate book. What the book says the job should pay
is what I get, whether or not I finish the job in the time the book
gives.
--
Old Crow
'82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
'95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
<JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote:
>"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
>news:4005764b$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> if you don't want to pay someone to do, gear up and do it
>> yourself.
>
>i cant see how knowing how to do something justifies sticking it to those
>who dont. im lucky in two ways....i rarely keep a new vehicle much more
>than a year so im always under warranty, and there is no vehicular repair i
>cant do myself anyway. i feel sorry though for those who cant and must rely
>upon dealerships to repair their vehicles out of warranty. i feel sorry for
>everyone with the triton v10 head out of warranty that had to pay for an
>entire new head because the dealership was incapable of building up the head
>and tapping new plug threads or paying a machine shop to do it for them (v10
>was bad for blowing plugs out of their holes taking the threads with them).
>it happened on my brothers but he had an extended warranty. i feel bad for
>everyone whos paid $200 in labor costs to have an alternator swapped when i
>know one person that got theirs swapped and installed at autozone for FREE
>(labor). i could go on but im bored with this now.
You know, Nate, I wouldn't expect you to weld up a bumper for cheap.
Why would you expect me to work on your car for cheap?
I work from the flat rate book. What the book says the job should pay
is what I get, whether or not I finish the job in the time the book
gives.
--
Old Crow
'82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
'95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
#198
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:07:20 GMT, "Nathan Collier"
<JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote:
>"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
>news:4005764b$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> if you don't want to pay someone to do, gear up and do it
>> yourself.
>
>i cant see how knowing how to do something justifies sticking it to those
>who dont. im lucky in two ways....i rarely keep a new vehicle much more
>than a year so im always under warranty, and there is no vehicular repair i
>cant do myself anyway. i feel sorry though for those who cant and must rely
>upon dealerships to repair their vehicles out of warranty. i feel sorry for
>everyone with the triton v10 head out of warranty that had to pay for an
>entire new head because the dealership was incapable of building up the head
>and tapping new plug threads or paying a machine shop to do it for them (v10
>was bad for blowing plugs out of their holes taking the threads with them).
>it happened on my brothers but he had an extended warranty. i feel bad for
>everyone whos paid $200 in labor costs to have an alternator swapped when i
>know one person that got theirs swapped and installed at autozone for FREE
>(labor). i could go on but im bored with this now.
You know, Nate, I wouldn't expect you to weld up a bumper for cheap.
Why would you expect me to work on your car for cheap?
I work from the flat rate book. What the book says the job should pay
is what I get, whether or not I finish the job in the time the book
gives.
--
Old Crow
'82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
'95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
<JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote:
>"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
>news:4005764b$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> if you don't want to pay someone to do, gear up and do it
>> yourself.
>
>i cant see how knowing how to do something justifies sticking it to those
>who dont. im lucky in two ways....i rarely keep a new vehicle much more
>than a year so im always under warranty, and there is no vehicular repair i
>cant do myself anyway. i feel sorry though for those who cant and must rely
>upon dealerships to repair their vehicles out of warranty. i feel sorry for
>everyone with the triton v10 head out of warranty that had to pay for an
>entire new head because the dealership was incapable of building up the head
>and tapping new plug threads or paying a machine shop to do it for them (v10
>was bad for blowing plugs out of their holes taking the threads with them).
>it happened on my brothers but he had an extended warranty. i feel bad for
>everyone whos paid $200 in labor costs to have an alternator swapped when i
>know one person that got theirs swapped and installed at autozone for FREE
>(labor). i could go on but im bored with this now.
You know, Nate, I wouldn't expect you to weld up a bumper for cheap.
Why would you expect me to work on your car for cheap?
I work from the flat rate book. What the book says the job should pay
is what I get, whether or not I finish the job in the time the book
gives.
--
Old Crow
'82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
'95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
#199
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:07:20 GMT, "Nathan Collier"
<JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote:
>"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
>news:4005764b$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> if you don't want to pay someone to do, gear up and do it
>> yourself.
>
>i cant see how knowing how to do something justifies sticking it to those
>who dont. im lucky in two ways....i rarely keep a new vehicle much more
>than a year so im always under warranty, and there is no vehicular repair i
>cant do myself anyway. i feel sorry though for those who cant and must rely
>upon dealerships to repair their vehicles out of warranty. i feel sorry for
>everyone with the triton v10 head out of warranty that had to pay for an
>entire new head because the dealership was incapable of building up the head
>and tapping new plug threads or paying a machine shop to do it for them (v10
>was bad for blowing plugs out of their holes taking the threads with them).
>it happened on my brothers but he had an extended warranty. i feel bad for
>everyone whos paid $200 in labor costs to have an alternator swapped when i
>know one person that got theirs swapped and installed at autozone for FREE
>(labor). i could go on but im bored with this now.
You know, Nate, I wouldn't expect you to weld up a bumper for cheap.
Why would you expect me to work on your car for cheap?
I work from the flat rate book. What the book says the job should pay
is what I get, whether or not I finish the job in the time the book
gives.
--
Old Crow
'82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
'95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
<JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote:
>"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
>news:4005764b$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> if you don't want to pay someone to do, gear up and do it
>> yourself.
>
>i cant see how knowing how to do something justifies sticking it to those
>who dont. im lucky in two ways....i rarely keep a new vehicle much more
>than a year so im always under warranty, and there is no vehicular repair i
>cant do myself anyway. i feel sorry though for those who cant and must rely
>upon dealerships to repair their vehicles out of warranty. i feel sorry for
>everyone with the triton v10 head out of warranty that had to pay for an
>entire new head because the dealership was incapable of building up the head
>and tapping new plug threads or paying a machine shop to do it for them (v10
>was bad for blowing plugs out of their holes taking the threads with them).
>it happened on my brothers but he had an extended warranty. i feel bad for
>everyone whos paid $200 in labor costs to have an alternator swapped when i
>know one person that got theirs swapped and installed at autozone for FREE
>(labor). i could go on but im bored with this now.
You know, Nate, I wouldn't expect you to weld up a bumper for cheap.
Why would you expect me to work on your car for cheap?
I work from the flat rate book. What the book says the job should pay
is what I get, whether or not I finish the job in the time the book
gives.
--
Old Crow
'82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
'95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
#200
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What does the Mechanic get
On 14 Jan 2004 22:11:40 GMT, Barry Bean <bbbean@beancotton.com> wrote:
>"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in
>news:4005764b$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net:
>
>>
>> Well, that's not so in most dealerships. The tech gets paid when he
>> is working on a paying customer's automobile. Tech doesn't get paid
>> to clean the house, train the new guy, road test for hours to
>> duplicate an impossible concern, etc..
>
>I have never known a dealership mechanic who didn't simply draw a salary or
>hourly wage for the time he was at the dealership. Are you saying that the
>dealership mechanics you know are independent contractors who only get paid
>while they're actualy working on a customer vehicle?
>
>
I've worked for GM dealers for almost 20 years in 3 different states.
I've never in that time drawn a salary. It's all piecework. I get
paid so much per job based on the times allowed in the Motor Labor
time guide.
If I go up to the service drive, hook a scanner to your vehicle and
read the codes, I'm doing it for free unless there's a repair order
written ont he vehicle. That is why there is a minimum charge for
diagnostics.
--
Old Crow
'82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
'95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
>"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in
>news:4005764b$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net:
>
>>
>> Well, that's not so in most dealerships. The tech gets paid when he
>> is working on a paying customer's automobile. Tech doesn't get paid
>> to clean the house, train the new guy, road test for hours to
>> duplicate an impossible concern, etc..
>
>I have never known a dealership mechanic who didn't simply draw a salary or
>hourly wage for the time he was at the dealership. Are you saying that the
>dealership mechanics you know are independent contractors who only get paid
>while they're actualy working on a customer vehicle?
>
>
I've worked for GM dealers for almost 20 years in 3 different states.
I've never in that time drawn a salary. It's all piecework. I get
paid so much per job based on the times allowed in the Motor Labor
time guide.
If I go up to the service drive, hook a scanner to your vehicle and
read the codes, I'm doing it for free unless there's a repair order
written ont he vehicle. That is why there is a minimum charge for
diagnostics.
--
Old Crow
'82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
'95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51