Matt Macchiarolo

Depends on the trail. Most of the trails I go on are narrow, wooded, and
very few people are standing around, usually they were up or down the trail.
In an open area, there would be more risk.

I was tugging pretty hard to get those pine pieces to break. Harder than I
normally have to be to tug out a moderately stuck vehicle.

"SteveBrady" <steve.brady@(remove this)rogers.com> wrote in message
news:YqudnRhg3dtvEvDcRVn-hw@rogers.com...
> So, basically....either drive is safe from this flying debris....but
anyone
> nearby would become a target!!
>
> How ginger were you on the pedal? ACtually, I'm not going to question
your
> test methods at all....
> Guys....just be smart!!!! If you want to play with your own
> life...fine...we'll get you signed up for a Darwin award...
> But don't ---- with other people's lives!
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com...
> >I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I had
in
> > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
> > tree
> > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was too
> > worn
> > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
the
> > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs against
an
> > immobile tree.
> >
> > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
> > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
deep.
> > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
> > straps
> > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
the
> > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
> >
> > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
tugs,
> > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
> > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It seemed
> > the
> > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the "toggle"
> > strap.
> >
> > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
> >
> > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but the
> > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
> > last
> > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
> >
> > My conclusions:
> >
> > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
hardwood
> > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
> > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
> > mud)
> > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
> >
> > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end of
> > the
> > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away, but
> > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
basis
> > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook" onto
> > the
> > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
sideways
> > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel, the
> > more force is required to break it.
> >
> > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
> > probably
> > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
> > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
> >
> > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
> > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to minimize
> > the
> > danger.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> >> You need some basic physics Matt....
> >>
> >> The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the opposite
> >> direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces ballistically
> >> in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
the
> >> same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
> >>
> >> Think sling shot.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >> >
> >> > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
but
> > at a
> >> > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using a
> > clevis
> >> > to connect straps.
> >> >
> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> >> > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
> >> > >
> >> > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike
> >> > >
> >> > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
> >> > > > stronger
> >> > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
> > However,
> >> > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a
> > safety
> >> > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one
of
> > the
> >> > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen
is
> > the
> >> > stuck
> >> > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
> > rockface,
> >> > in
> >> > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
> >
> >
>
>

Matt Macchiarolo

Depends on the trail. Most of the trails I go on are narrow, wooded, and
very few people are standing around, usually they were up or down the trail.
In an open area, there would be more risk.

I was tugging pretty hard to get those pine pieces to break. Harder than I
normally have to be to tug out a moderately stuck vehicle.

"SteveBrady" <steve.brady@(remove this)rogers.com> wrote in message
news:YqudnRhg3dtvEvDcRVn-hw@rogers.com...
> So, basically....either drive is safe from this flying debris....but
anyone
> nearby would become a target!!
>
> How ginger were you on the pedal? ACtually, I'm not going to question
your
> test methods at all....
> Guys....just be smart!!!! If you want to play with your own
> life...fine...we'll get you signed up for a Darwin award...
> But don't ---- with other people's lives!
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com...
> >I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I had
in
> > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
> > tree
> > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was too
> > worn
> > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
the
> > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs against
an
> > immobile tree.
> >
> > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
> > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
deep.
> > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
> > straps
> > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
the
> > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
> >
> > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
tugs,
> > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
> > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It seemed
> > the
> > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the "toggle"
> > strap.
> >
> > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
> >
> > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but the
> > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
> > last
> > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
> >
> > My conclusions:
> >
> > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
hardwood
> > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
> > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
> > mud)
> > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
> >
> > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end of
> > the
> > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away, but
> > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
basis
> > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook" onto
> > the
> > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
sideways
> > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel, the
> > more force is required to break it.
> >
> > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
> > probably
> > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
> > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
> >
> > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
> > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to minimize
> > the
> > danger.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> >> You need some basic physics Matt....
> >>
> >> The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the opposite
> >> direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces ballistically
> >> in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
the
> >> same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
> >>
> >> Think sling shot.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >> >
> >> > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
but
> > at a
> >> > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using a
> > clevis
> >> > to connect straps.
> >> >
> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> >> > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
> >> > >
> >> > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike
> >> > >
> >> > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
> >> > > > stronger
> >> > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
> > However,
> >> > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a
> > safety
> >> > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one
of
> > the
> >> > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen
is
> > the
> >> > stuck
> >> > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
> > rockface,
> >> > in
> >> > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
> >
> >
>
>

Matt Macchiarolo

Depends on the trail. Most of the trails I go on are narrow, wooded, and
very few people are standing around, usually they were up or down the trail.
In an open area, there would be more risk.

I was tugging pretty hard to get those pine pieces to break. Harder than I
normally have to be to tug out a moderately stuck vehicle.

"SteveBrady" <steve.brady@(remove this)rogers.com> wrote in message
news:YqudnRhg3dtvEvDcRVn-hw@rogers.com...
> So, basically....either drive is safe from this flying debris....but
anyone
> nearby would become a target!!
>
> How ginger were you on the pedal? ACtually, I'm not going to question
your
> test methods at all....
> Guys....just be smart!!!! If you want to play with your own
> life...fine...we'll get you signed up for a Darwin award...
> But don't ---- with other people's lives!
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com...
> >I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I had
in
> > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
> > tree
> > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was too
> > worn
> > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
the
> > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs against
an
> > immobile tree.
> >
> > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
> > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
deep.
> > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
> > straps
> > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
the
> > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
> >
> > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
tugs,
> > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
> > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It seemed
> > the
> > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the "toggle"
> > strap.
> >
> > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
> >
> > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but the
> > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
> > last
> > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
> >
> > My conclusions:
> >
> > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
hardwood
> > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
> > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
> > mud)
> > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
> >
> > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end of
> > the
> > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away, but
> > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
basis
> > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook" onto
> > the
> > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
sideways
> > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel, the
> > more force is required to break it.
> >
> > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
> > probably
> > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
> > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
> >
> > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
> > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to minimize
> > the
> > danger.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> >> You need some basic physics Matt....
> >>
> >> The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the opposite
> >> direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces ballistically
> >> in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
the
> >> same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
> >>
> >> Think sling shot.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >> >
> >> > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
but
> > at a
> >> > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using a
> > clevis
> >> > to connect straps.
> >> >
> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> >> > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
> >> > >
> >> > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike
> >> > >
> >> > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
> >> > > > stronger
> >> > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
> > However,
> >> > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a
> > safety
> >> > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one
of
> > the
> >> > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen
is
> > the
> >> > stuck
> >> > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
> > rockface,
> >> > in
> >> > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
> >
> >
>
>

Matt Macchiarolo

Beats having a rear crossmember flying down the trail :-)

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:416D8E02.3212D23B@sympatico.ca...
> No!
>
> He is blowing chunks of wood 100's of feet all over rather than having
> two looped straps like this: http://xjeep.dyndns.org/slipstrap.jpg
>
> Mike
>
> aGraham wrote:
> >
> > I have lost track ( and I am even the one who started the conversation)
> > is the "toggle method" tested below the same as the illustrated version
> > earlier?
> >
> > In article <SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com>,
> > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I
had in
> > > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
tree
> > > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was
too worn
> > > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
the
> > > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs
against an
> > > immobile tree.
> > >
> > > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
> > > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
deep.
> > > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
straps
> > > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
the
> > > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
> > >
> > > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
tugs,
> > > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
> > > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It
seemed the
> > > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the
"toggle"
> > > strap.
> > >
> > > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
> > >
> > > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but
the
> > > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
last
> > > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
> > >
> > > My conclusions:
> > >
> > > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
hardwood
> > > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
> > > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
mud)
> > > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
> > >
> > > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end
of the
> > > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away,
but
> > > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
basis
> > > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook"
onto the
> > > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
sideways
> > > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel,
the
> > > more force is required to break it.
> > >
> > > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
probably
> > > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
> > > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
> > >
> > > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
> > > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to
minimize the
> > > danger.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> > > > You need some basic physics Matt....
> > > >
> > > > The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the
opposite
> > > > direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces
ballistically
> > > > in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
the
> > > > same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
> > > >
> > > > Think sling shot.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
but
> > > at a
> > > > > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like
using a
> > > clevis
> > > > > to connect straps.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go
ballistic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
stronger
> > > > > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
> > > However,
> > > > > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as
a
> > > safety
> > > > > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off
one of
> > > the
> > > > > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would
happen is
> > > the
> > > > > stuck
> > > > > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
> > > rockface,
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
> >
> > --
> > o_o_o_o
> > /| ,[_____],
> > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

Matt Macchiarolo

Beats having a rear crossmember flying down the trail :-)

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:416D8E02.3212D23B@sympatico.ca...
> No!
>
> He is blowing chunks of wood 100's of feet all over rather than having
> two looped straps like this: http://xjeep.dyndns.org/slipstrap.jpg
>
> Mike
>
> aGraham wrote:
> >
> > I have lost track ( and I am even the one who started the conversation)
> > is the "toggle method" tested below the same as the illustrated version
> > earlier?
> >
> > In article <SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com>,
> > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I
had in
> > > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
tree
> > > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was
too worn
> > > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
the
> > > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs
against an
> > > immobile tree.
> > >
> > > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
> > > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
deep.
> > > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
straps
> > > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
the
> > > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
> > >
> > > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
tugs,
> > > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
> > > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It
seemed the
> > > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the
"toggle"
> > > strap.
> > >
> > > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
> > >
> > > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but
the
> > > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
last
> > > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
> > >
> > > My conclusions:
> > >
> > > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
hardwood
> > > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
> > > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
mud)
> > > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
> > >
> > > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end
of the
> > > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away,
but
> > > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
basis
> > > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook"
onto the
> > > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
sideways
> > > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel,
the
> > > more force is required to break it.
> > >
> > > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
probably
> > > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
> > > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
> > >
> > > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
> > > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to
minimize the
> > > danger.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> > > > You need some basic physics Matt....
> > > >
> > > > The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the
opposite
> > > > direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces
ballistically
> > > > in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
the
> > > > same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
> > > >
> > > > Think sling shot.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
but
> > > at a
> > > > > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like
using a
> > > clevis
> > > > > to connect straps.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go
ballistic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
stronger
> > > > > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
> > > However,
> > > > > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as
a
> > > safety
> > > > > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off
one of
> > > the
> > > > > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would
happen is
> > > the
> > > > > stuck
> > > > > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
> > > rockface,
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
> >
> > --
> > o_o_o_o
> > /| ,[_____],
> > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

Matt Macchiarolo

Beats having a rear crossmember flying down the trail :-)

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:416D8E02.3212D23B@sympatico.ca...
> No!
>
> He is blowing chunks of wood 100's of feet all over rather than having
> two looped straps like this: http://xjeep.dyndns.org/slipstrap.jpg
>
> Mike
>
> aGraham wrote:
> >
> > I have lost track ( and I am even the one who started the conversation)
> > is the "toggle method" tested below the same as the illustrated version
> > earlier?
> >
> > In article <SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com>,
> > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I
had in
> > > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
tree
> > > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was
too worn
> > > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
the
> > > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs
against an
> > > immobile tree.
> > >
> > > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
> > > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
deep.
> > > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
straps
> > > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
the
> > > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
> > >
> > > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
tugs,
> > > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
> > > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It
seemed the
> > > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the
"toggle"
> > > strap.
> > >
> > > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
> > >
> > > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but
the
> > > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
last
> > > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
> > >
> > > My conclusions:
> > >
> > > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
hardwood
> > > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
> > > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
mud)
> > > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
> > >
> > > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end
of the
> > > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away,
but
> > > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
basis
> > > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook"
onto the
> > > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
sideways
> > > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel,
the
> > > more force is required to break it.
> > >
> > > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
probably
> > > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
> > > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
> > >
> > > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
> > > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to
minimize the
> > > danger.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> > > > You need some basic physics Matt....
> > > >
> > > > The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the
opposite
> > > > direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces
ballistically
> > > > in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
the
> > > > same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
> > > >
> > > > Think sling shot.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
but
> > > at a
> > > > > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like
using a
> > > clevis
> > > > > to connect straps.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go
ballistic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
stronger
> > > > > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
> > > However,
> > > > > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as
a
> > > safety
> > > > > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off
one of
> > > the
> > > > > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would
happen is
> > > the
> > > > > stuck
> > > > > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
> > > rockface,
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
> >
> > --
> > o_o_o_o
> > /| ,[_____],
> > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

SteveBrady

Well....if this is the technique you, or anyone else, are going to
use....PLEASE!!!! be sure you control the area around you!!



"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:t8SdnQuibsi1DvDcRVn-vg@comcast.com...
> Depends on the trail. Most of the trails I go on are narrow, wooded, and
> very few people are standing around, usually they were up or down the
> trail.
> In an open area, there would be more risk.
>
> I was tugging pretty hard to get those pine pieces to break. Harder than I
> normally have to be to tug out a moderately stuck vehicle.
>
> "SteveBrady" <steve.brady@(remove this)rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:YqudnRhg3dtvEvDcRVn-hw@rogers.com...
>> So, basically....either drive is safe from this flying debris....but
> anyone
>> nearby would become a target!!
>>
>> How ginger were you on the pedal? ACtually, I'm not going to question
> your
>> test methods at all....
>> Guys....just be smart!!!! If you want to play with your own
>> life...fine...we'll get you signed up for a Darwin award...
>> But don't ---- with other people's lives!
>>
>>
>>
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>> >I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I had
> in
>> > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
>> > tree
>> > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was too
>> > worn
>> > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
> the
>> > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs against
> an
>> > immobile tree.
>> >
>> > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
>> > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
> deep.
>> > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
>> > straps
>> > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
> the
>> > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
>> >
>> > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
> tugs,
>> > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
>> > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It seemed
>> > the
>> > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the
>> > "toggle"
>> > strap.
>> >
>> > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
>> >
>> > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but
>> > the
>> > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
>> > last
>> > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
>> >
>> > My conclusions:
>> >
>> > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
> hardwood
>> > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
>> > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
>> > mud)
>> > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
>> >
>> > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end
>> > of
>> > the
>> > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away,
>> > but
>> > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
> basis
>> > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook" onto
>> > the
>> > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
> sideways
>> > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel,
>> > the
>> > more force is required to break it.
>> >
>> > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
>> > probably
>> > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
>> > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
>> >
>> > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
>> > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to
>> > minimize
>> > the
>> > danger.
>> >
>> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
>> >> You need some basic physics Matt....
>> >>
>> >> The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the opposite
>> >> direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces ballistically
>> >> in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
> the
>> >> same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
>> >>
>> >> Think sling shot.
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
> but
>> > at a
>> >> > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using
>> >> > a
>> > clevis
>> >> > to connect straps.
>> >> >
>> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go
>> >> > > ballistic.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mike
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
>> >> > > > stronger
>> >> > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
>> > However,
>> >> > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a
>> > safety
>> >> > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one
> of
>> > the
>> >> > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen
> is
>> > the
>> >> > stuck
>> >> > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
>> > rockface,
>> >> > in
>> >> > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

SteveBrady

Well....if this is the technique you, or anyone else, are going to
use....PLEASE!!!! be sure you control the area around you!!



"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:t8SdnQuibsi1DvDcRVn-vg@comcast.com...
> Depends on the trail. Most of the trails I go on are narrow, wooded, and
> very few people are standing around, usually they were up or down the
> trail.
> In an open area, there would be more risk.
>
> I was tugging pretty hard to get those pine pieces to break. Harder than I
> normally have to be to tug out a moderately stuck vehicle.
>
> "SteveBrady" <steve.brady@(remove this)rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:YqudnRhg3dtvEvDcRVn-hw@rogers.com...
>> So, basically....either drive is safe from this flying debris....but
> anyone
>> nearby would become a target!!
>>
>> How ginger were you on the pedal? ACtually, I'm not going to question
> your
>> test methods at all....
>> Guys....just be smart!!!! If you want to play with your own
>> life...fine...we'll get you signed up for a Darwin award...
>> But don't ---- with other people's lives!
>>
>>
>>
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>> >I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I had
> in
>> > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
>> > tree
>> > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was too
>> > worn
>> > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
> the
>> > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs against
> an
>> > immobile tree.
>> >
>> > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
>> > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
> deep.
>> > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
>> > straps
>> > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
> the
>> > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
>> >
>> > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
> tugs,
>> > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
>> > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It seemed
>> > the
>> > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the
>> > "toggle"
>> > strap.
>> >
>> > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
>> >
>> > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but
>> > the
>> > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
>> > last
>> > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
>> >
>> > My conclusions:
>> >
>> > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
> hardwood
>> > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
>> > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
>> > mud)
>> > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
>> >
>> > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end
>> > of
>> > the
>> > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away,
>> > but
>> > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
> basis
>> > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook" onto
>> > the
>> > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
> sideways
>> > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel,
>> > the
>> > more force is required to break it.
>> >
>> > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
>> > probably
>> > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
>> > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
>> >
>> > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
>> > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to
>> > minimize
>> > the
>> > danger.
>> >
>> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
>> >> You need some basic physics Matt....
>> >>
>> >> The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the opposite
>> >> direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces ballistically
>> >> in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
> the
>> >> same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
>> >>
>> >> Think sling shot.
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
> but
>> > at a
>> >> > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using
>> >> > a
>> > clevis
>> >> > to connect straps.
>> >> >
>> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go
>> >> > > ballistic.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mike
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
>> >> > > > stronger
>> >> > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
>> > However,
>> >> > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a
>> > safety
>> >> > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one
> of
>> > the
>> >> > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen
> is
>> > the
>> >> > stuck
>> >> > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
>> > rockface,
>> >> > in
>> >> > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

SteveBrady

Well....if this is the technique you, or anyone else, are going to
use....PLEASE!!!! be sure you control the area around you!!



"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:t8SdnQuibsi1DvDcRVn-vg@comcast.com...
> Depends on the trail. Most of the trails I go on are narrow, wooded, and
> very few people are standing around, usually they were up or down the
> trail.
> In an open area, there would be more risk.
>
> I was tugging pretty hard to get those pine pieces to break. Harder than I
> normally have to be to tug out a moderately stuck vehicle.
>
> "SteveBrady" <steve.brady@(remove this)rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:YqudnRhg3dtvEvDcRVn-hw@rogers.com...
>> So, basically....either drive is safe from this flying debris....but
> anyone
>> nearby would become a target!!
>>
>> How ginger were you on the pedal? ACtually, I'm not going to question
> your
>> test methods at all....
>> Guys....just be smart!!!! If you want to play with your own
>> life...fine...we'll get you signed up for a Darwin award...
>> But don't ---- with other people's lives!
>>
>>
>>
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>> >I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I had
> in
>> > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
>> > tree
>> > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was too
>> > worn
>> > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
> the
>> > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs against
> an
>> > immobile tree.
>> >
>> > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
>> > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
> deep.
>> > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
>> > straps
>> > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
> the
>> > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
>> >
>> > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
> tugs,
>> > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
>> > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It seemed
>> > the
>> > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the
>> > "toggle"
>> > strap.
>> >
>> > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
>> >
>> > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but
>> > the
>> > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
>> > last
>> > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
>> >
>> > My conclusions:
>> >
>> > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
> hardwood
>> > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
>> > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
>> > mud)
>> > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
>> >
>> > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end
>> > of
>> > the
>> > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away,
>> > but
>> > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
> basis
>> > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook" onto
>> > the
>> > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
> sideways
>> > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel,
>> > the
>> > more force is required to break it.
>> >
>> > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
>> > probably
>> > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
>> > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
>> >
>> > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
>> > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to
>> > minimize
>> > the
>> > danger.
>> >
>> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
>> >> You need some basic physics Matt....
>> >>
>> >> The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the opposite
>> >> direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces ballistically
>> >> in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
> the
>> >> same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
>> >>
>> >> Think sling shot.
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
> but
>> > at a
>> >> > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using
>> >> > a
>> > clevis
>> >> > to connect straps.
>> >> >
>> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go
>> >> > > ballistic.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mike
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
>> >> > > > stronger
>> >> > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
>> > However,
>> >> > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a
>> > safety
>> >> > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one
> of
>> > the
>> >> > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen
> is
>> > the
>> >> > stuck
>> >> > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
>> > rockface,
>> >> > in
>> >> > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Mike Romain

Not really.

My friend who was off to the side watching is still alive....

Mike

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Beats having a rear crossmember flying down the trail :-)
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D8E02.3212D23B@sympatico.ca...
> > No!
> >
> > He is blowing chunks of wood 100's of feet all over rather than having
> > two looped straps like this: http://xjeep.dyndns.org/slipstrap.jpg
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > aGraham wrote:
> > >
> > > I have lost track ( and I am even the one who started the conversation)
> > > is the "toggle method" tested below the same as the illustrated version
> > > earlier?
> > >
> > > In article <SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com>,
> > > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I
> had in
> > > > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
> tree
> > > > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was
> too worn
> > > > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
> the
> > > > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs
> against an
> > > > immobile tree.
> > > >
> > > > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
> > > > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
> deep.
> > > > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
> straps
> > > > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
> the
> > > > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
> > > >
> > > > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
> tugs,
> > > > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
> > > > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It
> seemed the
> > > > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the
> "toggle"
> > > > strap.
> > > >
> > > > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
> > > >
> > > > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but
> the
> > > > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
> last
> > > > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
> > > >
> > > > My conclusions:
> > > >
> > > > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
> hardwood
> > > > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
> > > > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
> mud)
> > > > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
> > > >
> > > > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end
> of the
> > > > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away,
> but
> > > > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
> basis
> > > > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook"
> onto the
> > > > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
> sideways
> > > > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel,
> the
> > > > more force is required to break it.
> > > >
> > > > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
> probably
> > > > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
> > > > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
> > > >
> > > > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
> > > > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to
> minimize the
> > > > danger.
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > You need some basic physics Matt....
> > > > >
> > > > > The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the
> opposite
> > > > > direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces
> ballistically
> > > > > in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
> the
> > > > > same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
> > > > >
> > > > > Think sling shot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
> but
> > > > at a
> > > > > > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like
> using a
> > > > clevis
> > > > > > to connect straps.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go
> ballistic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
> stronger
> > > > > > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
> > > > However,
> > > > > > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as
> a
> > > > safety
> > > > > > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off
> one of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would
> happen is
> > > > the
> > > > > > stuck
> > > > > > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
> > > > rockface,
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
> > >
> > > --
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > /| ,[_____],
> > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)