Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
Still, eliminate the stick as ever being a problem and loop the tow
straps together.
Geez, learn to snip!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> OK, I meant 2 1/2 inches in diameter, not feet, that would be more like a
> catapult load...
straps together.
Geez, learn to snip!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> OK, I meant 2 1/2 inches in diameter, not feet, that would be more like a
> catapult load...
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
Still, eliminate the stick as ever being a problem and loop the tow
straps together.
Geez, learn to snip!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> OK, I meant 2 1/2 inches in diameter, not feet, that would be more like a
> catapult load...
straps together.
Geez, learn to snip!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> OK, I meant 2 1/2 inches in diameter, not feet, that would be more like a
> catapult load...
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
Still, eliminate the stick as ever being a problem and loop the tow
straps together.
Geez, learn to snip!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> OK, I meant 2 1/2 inches in diameter, not feet, that would be more like a
> catapult load...
straps together.
Geez, learn to snip!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> OK, I meant 2 1/2 inches in diameter, not feet, that would be more like a
> catapult load...
#74
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
Have you ever seen how hard a strap can come up?
Hard enough of an 'impact' to shear hooks and bolts and tear off
bumpers.
The stick sees the exact same impact.
The impact from trying to ****** Steve Seppala's YJ out of a snowbank
snapped off my rear cross member. We are talking channel steel
structurally welded onto the frame.
This thread started because a gent got killed when a 'steel' clamp let
loose in between two straps due to that same impact. A chunk of wood is
'just' as deadly stuck in the same place that steel clamp was if it lets
loose!
To each their own I guess, but 'I' sure won't recommend using a freaking
stick as a structural point in a tow setup that is for sure and that
Mark gent still needs to be slapped!
Mike
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Of course the dowel sees the forces of towing, but it is not impact forces
> like a bat and baseball contacting.
>
> If a tow hook goes, then using a dowel as a toggle will mean the connection
> will immediately loosen and absorb some of the projectile energy that would
> otherwise be transmitted to the hook. By using the dowel as a means to
> disconnect the looped-together straps, it becomes part of the projectile as
> well.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D4A19.601CB0C1@sympatico.ca...
> > Have you ever snapped a baseball bat? Hooks have even been known to
> > snap and hook bolts shear.
> >
> > The dowel certainly 'does' see the impact forces. 100% of them as a
> > matter of fact.
> >
> > Wow.....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > >
> > > Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a 2"
> > > hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a
> the
> > > dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
> doesn't
> > > see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the
> bark
> > > off. It's just something you carry with you.
> > >
> > > It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself and
> (b)
> > > as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart without
> > > unlooping.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
> > > >
> > > > I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
> > > > enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe he has a death wish?
> > > >
> > > > Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
> > > > holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick
> as
> > > > part of the structure?
> > > >
> > > > My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
> > > >
> > > > The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle
> > > > under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just
> > > > hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
> talking
> > > > an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
> > > >
> > > > So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
> > > > momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
> sure
> > > > as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in
> > > > the equation!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > That would just be suicidal. Literally.
> > > >
> > > > I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
> fast
> > > > and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure.
> > > > Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
> > > > walls.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark Smith...
> > > > > http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
> > > > > > between them so you can pry them apart.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
> > > then
> > > > > > feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
> > > > > > locked together loops.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure.
> In
> > > > > > my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
> > > Hard!.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
> > > us a
> > > > > > > different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
> of
> > > Strap
> > > > > 1
> > > > > > > through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
> > > > > Strap 1,
> > > > > > > essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
> > > > > break
> > > > > > > inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
> have
> > > a
> > > > > > > minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
> times
> > > and
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
> > > dowel
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > and the two straps instantly come apart.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
> > > some
> > > > > > > members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
> > > > > > > > The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
> > > looped
> > > > > > > > through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
> so
> > > the
> > > > > > > straps
> > > > > > > > can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed.
> Without
> > > the
> > > > > dowel,
> > > > > > > > they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > force of the pull.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Jerry Bransford
> > > > > > > > PP-ASEL N6TAY
> > > > > > > > See the Geezer Jeep at
> > > > > > > > http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> > > > > > > > "aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
> > > > > > > >
> > > news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > Very sad....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past,
> but
> > > > > recently a
> > > > > > > > > wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
> > > to
> > > > > > > > > connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
> > > > > dowel
> > > > > > > > > would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not
> have
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > weight/inertia to become a projectile.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
> > > > > > > > > "Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have
> been
> > > > > shed....I
> > > > > > > > >> don't
> > > > > > > > >> know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
> > > tugging
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> what
> > > > > > > > >> to use and not to use...
> > > > > > > > >> and I have already seen this joining two straps together by
> a
> > > > > > > cleavis....
> > > > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > > > >> know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
> > > happen
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > >> presence as it has really opened my eyes...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
> > > > > > > > >> you are in our prayers....
> > > > > > > > >> Jeff
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> "JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > > > >> news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03...
> > > > > > > > >> > To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
> > > > > animals...
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
> > > > > > > > >> 6753&p=1
> > > > > > > > >> > --
> > > > > > > > >> > Gene
> > > > > > > > >> > Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > > > > |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > > > > ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
Hard enough of an 'impact' to shear hooks and bolts and tear off
bumpers.
The stick sees the exact same impact.
The impact from trying to ****** Steve Seppala's YJ out of a snowbank
snapped off my rear cross member. We are talking channel steel
structurally welded onto the frame.
This thread started because a gent got killed when a 'steel' clamp let
loose in between two straps due to that same impact. A chunk of wood is
'just' as deadly stuck in the same place that steel clamp was if it lets
loose!
To each their own I guess, but 'I' sure won't recommend using a freaking
stick as a structural point in a tow setup that is for sure and that
Mark gent still needs to be slapped!
Mike
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Of course the dowel sees the forces of towing, but it is not impact forces
> like a bat and baseball contacting.
>
> If a tow hook goes, then using a dowel as a toggle will mean the connection
> will immediately loosen and absorb some of the projectile energy that would
> otherwise be transmitted to the hook. By using the dowel as a means to
> disconnect the looped-together straps, it becomes part of the projectile as
> well.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D4A19.601CB0C1@sympatico.ca...
> > Have you ever snapped a baseball bat? Hooks have even been known to
> > snap and hook bolts shear.
> >
> > The dowel certainly 'does' see the impact forces. 100% of them as a
> > matter of fact.
> >
> > Wow.....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > >
> > > Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a 2"
> > > hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a
> the
> > > dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
> doesn't
> > > see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the
> bark
> > > off. It's just something you carry with you.
> > >
> > > It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself and
> (b)
> > > as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart without
> > > unlooping.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
> > > >
> > > > I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
> > > > enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe he has a death wish?
> > > >
> > > > Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
> > > > holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick
> as
> > > > part of the structure?
> > > >
> > > > My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
> > > >
> > > > The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle
> > > > under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just
> > > > hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
> talking
> > > > an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
> > > >
> > > > So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
> > > > momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
> sure
> > > > as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in
> > > > the equation!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > That would just be suicidal. Literally.
> > > >
> > > > I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
> fast
> > > > and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure.
> > > > Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
> > > > walls.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark Smith...
> > > > > http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
> > > > > > between them so you can pry them apart.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
> > > then
> > > > > > feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
> > > > > > locked together loops.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure.
> In
> > > > > > my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
> > > Hard!.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
> > > us a
> > > > > > > different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
> of
> > > Strap
> > > > > 1
> > > > > > > through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
> > > > > Strap 1,
> > > > > > > essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
> > > > > break
> > > > > > > inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
> have
> > > a
> > > > > > > minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
> times
> > > and
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
> > > dowel
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > and the two straps instantly come apart.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
> > > some
> > > > > > > members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
> > > > > > > > The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
> > > looped
> > > > > > > > through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
> so
> > > the
> > > > > > > straps
> > > > > > > > can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed.
> Without
> > > the
> > > > > dowel,
> > > > > > > > they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > force of the pull.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Jerry Bransford
> > > > > > > > PP-ASEL N6TAY
> > > > > > > > See the Geezer Jeep at
> > > > > > > > http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> > > > > > > > "aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
> > > > > > > >
> > > news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > Very sad....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past,
> but
> > > > > recently a
> > > > > > > > > wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
> > > to
> > > > > > > > > connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
> > > > > dowel
> > > > > > > > > would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not
> have
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > weight/inertia to become a projectile.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
> > > > > > > > > "Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have
> been
> > > > > shed....I
> > > > > > > > >> don't
> > > > > > > > >> know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
> > > tugging
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> what
> > > > > > > > >> to use and not to use...
> > > > > > > > >> and I have already seen this joining two straps together by
> a
> > > > > > > cleavis....
> > > > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > > > >> know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
> > > happen
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > >> presence as it has really opened my eyes...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
> > > > > > > > >> you are in our prayers....
> > > > > > > > >> Jeff
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> "JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > > > >> news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03...
> > > > > > > > >> > To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
> > > > > animals...
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
> > > > > > > > >> 6753&p=1
> > > > > > > > >> > --
> > > > > > > > >> > Gene
> > > > > > > > >> > Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > > > > |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > > > > ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
Have you ever seen how hard a strap can come up?
Hard enough of an 'impact' to shear hooks and bolts and tear off
bumpers.
The stick sees the exact same impact.
The impact from trying to ****** Steve Seppala's YJ out of a snowbank
snapped off my rear cross member. We are talking channel steel
structurally welded onto the frame.
This thread started because a gent got killed when a 'steel' clamp let
loose in between two straps due to that same impact. A chunk of wood is
'just' as deadly stuck in the same place that steel clamp was if it lets
loose!
To each their own I guess, but 'I' sure won't recommend using a freaking
stick as a structural point in a tow setup that is for sure and that
Mark gent still needs to be slapped!
Mike
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Of course the dowel sees the forces of towing, but it is not impact forces
> like a bat and baseball contacting.
>
> If a tow hook goes, then using a dowel as a toggle will mean the connection
> will immediately loosen and absorb some of the projectile energy that would
> otherwise be transmitted to the hook. By using the dowel as a means to
> disconnect the looped-together straps, it becomes part of the projectile as
> well.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D4A19.601CB0C1@sympatico.ca...
> > Have you ever snapped a baseball bat? Hooks have even been known to
> > snap and hook bolts shear.
> >
> > The dowel certainly 'does' see the impact forces. 100% of them as a
> > matter of fact.
> >
> > Wow.....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > >
> > > Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a 2"
> > > hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a
> the
> > > dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
> doesn't
> > > see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the
> bark
> > > off. It's just something you carry with you.
> > >
> > > It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself and
> (b)
> > > as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart without
> > > unlooping.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
> > > >
> > > > I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
> > > > enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe he has a death wish?
> > > >
> > > > Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
> > > > holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick
> as
> > > > part of the structure?
> > > >
> > > > My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
> > > >
> > > > The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle
> > > > under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just
> > > > hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
> talking
> > > > an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
> > > >
> > > > So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
> > > > momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
> sure
> > > > as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in
> > > > the equation!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > That would just be suicidal. Literally.
> > > >
> > > > I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
> fast
> > > > and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure.
> > > > Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
> > > > walls.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark Smith...
> > > > > http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
> > > > > > between them so you can pry them apart.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
> > > then
> > > > > > feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
> > > > > > locked together loops.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure.
> In
> > > > > > my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
> > > Hard!.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
> > > us a
> > > > > > > different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
> of
> > > Strap
> > > > > 1
> > > > > > > through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
> > > > > Strap 1,
> > > > > > > essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
> > > > > break
> > > > > > > inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
> have
> > > a
> > > > > > > minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
> times
> > > and
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
> > > dowel
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > and the two straps instantly come apart.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
> > > some
> > > > > > > members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
> > > > > > > > The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
> > > looped
> > > > > > > > through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
> so
> > > the
> > > > > > > straps
> > > > > > > > can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed.
> Without
> > > the
> > > > > dowel,
> > > > > > > > they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > force of the pull.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Jerry Bransford
> > > > > > > > PP-ASEL N6TAY
> > > > > > > > See the Geezer Jeep at
> > > > > > > > http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> > > > > > > > "aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
> > > > > > > >
> > > news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > Very sad....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past,
> but
> > > > > recently a
> > > > > > > > > wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
> > > to
> > > > > > > > > connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
> > > > > dowel
> > > > > > > > > would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not
> have
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > weight/inertia to become a projectile.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
> > > > > > > > > "Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have
> been
> > > > > shed....I
> > > > > > > > >> don't
> > > > > > > > >> know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
> > > tugging
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> what
> > > > > > > > >> to use and not to use...
> > > > > > > > >> and I have already seen this joining two straps together by
> a
> > > > > > > cleavis....
> > > > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > > > >> know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
> > > happen
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > >> presence as it has really opened my eyes...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
> > > > > > > > >> you are in our prayers....
> > > > > > > > >> Jeff
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> "JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > > > >> news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03...
> > > > > > > > >> > To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
> > > > > animals...
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
> > > > > > > > >> 6753&p=1
> > > > > > > > >> > --
> > > > > > > > >> > Gene
> > > > > > > > >> > Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > > > > |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > > > > ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
Hard enough of an 'impact' to shear hooks and bolts and tear off
bumpers.
The stick sees the exact same impact.
The impact from trying to ****** Steve Seppala's YJ out of a snowbank
snapped off my rear cross member. We are talking channel steel
structurally welded onto the frame.
This thread started because a gent got killed when a 'steel' clamp let
loose in between two straps due to that same impact. A chunk of wood is
'just' as deadly stuck in the same place that steel clamp was if it lets
loose!
To each their own I guess, but 'I' sure won't recommend using a freaking
stick as a structural point in a tow setup that is for sure and that
Mark gent still needs to be slapped!
Mike
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Of course the dowel sees the forces of towing, but it is not impact forces
> like a bat and baseball contacting.
>
> If a tow hook goes, then using a dowel as a toggle will mean the connection
> will immediately loosen and absorb some of the projectile energy that would
> otherwise be transmitted to the hook. By using the dowel as a means to
> disconnect the looped-together straps, it becomes part of the projectile as
> well.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D4A19.601CB0C1@sympatico.ca...
> > Have you ever snapped a baseball bat? Hooks have even been known to
> > snap and hook bolts shear.
> >
> > The dowel certainly 'does' see the impact forces. 100% of them as a
> > matter of fact.
> >
> > Wow.....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > >
> > > Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a 2"
> > > hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a
> the
> > > dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
> doesn't
> > > see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the
> bark
> > > off. It's just something you carry with you.
> > >
> > > It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself and
> (b)
> > > as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart without
> > > unlooping.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
> > > >
> > > > I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
> > > > enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe he has a death wish?
> > > >
> > > > Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
> > > > holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick
> as
> > > > part of the structure?
> > > >
> > > > My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
> > > >
> > > > The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle
> > > > under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just
> > > > hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
> talking
> > > > an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
> > > >
> > > > So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
> > > > momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
> sure
> > > > as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in
> > > > the equation!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > That would just be suicidal. Literally.
> > > >
> > > > I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
> fast
> > > > and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure.
> > > > Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
> > > > walls.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark Smith...
> > > > > http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
> > > > > > between them so you can pry them apart.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
> > > then
> > > > > > feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
> > > > > > locked together loops.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure.
> In
> > > > > > my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
> > > Hard!.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
> > > us a
> > > > > > > different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
> of
> > > Strap
> > > > > 1
> > > > > > > through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
> > > > > Strap 1,
> > > > > > > essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
> > > > > break
> > > > > > > inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
> have
> > > a
> > > > > > > minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
> times
> > > and
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
> > > dowel
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > and the two straps instantly come apart.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
> > > some
> > > > > > > members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
> > > > > > > > The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
> > > looped
> > > > > > > > through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
> so
> > > the
> > > > > > > straps
> > > > > > > > can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed.
> Without
> > > the
> > > > > dowel,
> > > > > > > > they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > force of the pull.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Jerry Bransford
> > > > > > > > PP-ASEL N6TAY
> > > > > > > > See the Geezer Jeep at
> > > > > > > > http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> > > > > > > > "aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
> > > > > > > >
> > > news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > Very sad....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past,
> but
> > > > > recently a
> > > > > > > > > wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
> > > to
> > > > > > > > > connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
> > > > > dowel
> > > > > > > > > would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not
> have
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > weight/inertia to become a projectile.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
> > > > > > > > > "Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have
> been
> > > > > shed....I
> > > > > > > > >> don't
> > > > > > > > >> know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
> > > tugging
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> what
> > > > > > > > >> to use and not to use...
> > > > > > > > >> and I have already seen this joining two straps together by
> a
> > > > > > > cleavis....
> > > > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > > > >> know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
> > > happen
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > >> presence as it has really opened my eyes...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
> > > > > > > > >> you are in our prayers....
> > > > > > > > >> Jeff
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> "JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > > > >> news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03...
> > > > > > > > >> > To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
> > > > > animals...
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
> > > > > > > > >> 6753&p=1
> > > > > > > > >> > --
> > > > > > > > >> > Gene
> > > > > > > > >> > Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > > > > |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > > > > ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
#76
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
Have you ever seen how hard a strap can come up?
Hard enough of an 'impact' to shear hooks and bolts and tear off
bumpers.
The stick sees the exact same impact.
The impact from trying to ****** Steve Seppala's YJ out of a snowbank
snapped off my rear cross member. We are talking channel steel
structurally welded onto the frame.
This thread started because a gent got killed when a 'steel' clamp let
loose in between two straps due to that same impact. A chunk of wood is
'just' as deadly stuck in the same place that steel clamp was if it lets
loose!
To each their own I guess, but 'I' sure won't recommend using a freaking
stick as a structural point in a tow setup that is for sure and that
Mark gent still needs to be slapped!
Mike
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Of course the dowel sees the forces of towing, but it is not impact forces
> like a bat and baseball contacting.
>
> If a tow hook goes, then using a dowel as a toggle will mean the connection
> will immediately loosen and absorb some of the projectile energy that would
> otherwise be transmitted to the hook. By using the dowel as a means to
> disconnect the looped-together straps, it becomes part of the projectile as
> well.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D4A19.601CB0C1@sympatico.ca...
> > Have you ever snapped a baseball bat? Hooks have even been known to
> > snap and hook bolts shear.
> >
> > The dowel certainly 'does' see the impact forces. 100% of them as a
> > matter of fact.
> >
> > Wow.....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > >
> > > Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a 2"
> > > hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a
> the
> > > dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
> doesn't
> > > see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the
> bark
> > > off. It's just something you carry with you.
> > >
> > > It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself and
> (b)
> > > as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart without
> > > unlooping.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
> > > >
> > > > I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
> > > > enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe he has a death wish?
> > > >
> > > > Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
> > > > holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick
> as
> > > > part of the structure?
> > > >
> > > > My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
> > > >
> > > > The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle
> > > > under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just
> > > > hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
> talking
> > > > an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
> > > >
> > > > So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
> > > > momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
> sure
> > > > as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in
> > > > the equation!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > That would just be suicidal. Literally.
> > > >
> > > > I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
> fast
> > > > and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure.
> > > > Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
> > > > walls.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark Smith...
> > > > > http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
> > > > > > between them so you can pry them apart.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
> > > then
> > > > > > feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
> > > > > > locked together loops.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure.
> In
> > > > > > my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
> > > Hard!.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
> > > us a
> > > > > > > different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
> of
> > > Strap
> > > > > 1
> > > > > > > through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
> > > > > Strap 1,
> > > > > > > essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
> > > > > break
> > > > > > > inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
> have
> > > a
> > > > > > > minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
> times
> > > and
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
> > > dowel
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > and the two straps instantly come apart.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
> > > some
> > > > > > > members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
> > > > > > > > The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
> > > looped
> > > > > > > > through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
> so
> > > the
> > > > > > > straps
> > > > > > > > can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed.
> Without
> > > the
> > > > > dowel,
> > > > > > > > they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > force of the pull.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Jerry Bransford
> > > > > > > > PP-ASEL N6TAY
> > > > > > > > See the Geezer Jeep at
> > > > > > > > http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> > > > > > > > "aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
> > > > > > > >
> > > news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > Very sad....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past,
> but
> > > > > recently a
> > > > > > > > > wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
> > > to
> > > > > > > > > connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
> > > > > dowel
> > > > > > > > > would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not
> have
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > weight/inertia to become a projectile.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
> > > > > > > > > "Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have
> been
> > > > > shed....I
> > > > > > > > >> don't
> > > > > > > > >> know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
> > > tugging
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> what
> > > > > > > > >> to use and not to use...
> > > > > > > > >> and I have already seen this joining two straps together by
> a
> > > > > > > cleavis....
> > > > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > > > >> know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
> > > happen
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > >> presence as it has really opened my eyes...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
> > > > > > > > >> you are in our prayers....
> > > > > > > > >> Jeff
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> "JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > > > >> news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03...
> > > > > > > > >> > To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
> > > > > animals...
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
> > > > > > > > >> 6753&p=1
> > > > > > > > >> > --
> > > > > > > > >> > Gene
> > > > > > > > >> > Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > > > > |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > > > > ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
Hard enough of an 'impact' to shear hooks and bolts and tear off
bumpers.
The stick sees the exact same impact.
The impact from trying to ****** Steve Seppala's YJ out of a snowbank
snapped off my rear cross member. We are talking channel steel
structurally welded onto the frame.
This thread started because a gent got killed when a 'steel' clamp let
loose in between two straps due to that same impact. A chunk of wood is
'just' as deadly stuck in the same place that steel clamp was if it lets
loose!
To each their own I guess, but 'I' sure won't recommend using a freaking
stick as a structural point in a tow setup that is for sure and that
Mark gent still needs to be slapped!
Mike
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Of course the dowel sees the forces of towing, but it is not impact forces
> like a bat and baseball contacting.
>
> If a tow hook goes, then using a dowel as a toggle will mean the connection
> will immediately loosen and absorb some of the projectile energy that would
> otherwise be transmitted to the hook. By using the dowel as a means to
> disconnect the looped-together straps, it becomes part of the projectile as
> well.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D4A19.601CB0C1@sympatico.ca...
> > Have you ever snapped a baseball bat? Hooks have even been known to
> > snap and hook bolts shear.
> >
> > The dowel certainly 'does' see the impact forces. 100% of them as a
> > matter of fact.
> >
> > Wow.....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > >
> > > Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a 2"
> > > hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a
> the
> > > dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
> doesn't
> > > see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the
> bark
> > > off. It's just something you carry with you.
> > >
> > > It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself and
> (b)
> > > as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart without
> > > unlooping.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
> > > >
> > > > I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
> > > > enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe he has a death wish?
> > > >
> > > > Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
> > > > holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick
> as
> > > > part of the structure?
> > > >
> > > > My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
> > > >
> > > > The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle
> > > > under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just
> > > > hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
> talking
> > > > an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
> > > >
> > > > So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
> > > > momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
> sure
> > > > as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in
> > > > the equation!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > That would just be suicidal. Literally.
> > > >
> > > > I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
> fast
> > > > and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure.
> > > > Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
> > > > walls.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark Smith...
> > > > > http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
> > > > > > between them so you can pry them apart.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
> > > then
> > > > > > feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
> > > > > > locked together loops.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure.
> In
> > > > > > my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
> > > Hard!.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
> > > us a
> > > > > > > different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
> of
> > > Strap
> > > > > 1
> > > > > > > through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
> > > > > Strap 1,
> > > > > > > essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
> > > > > break
> > > > > > > inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
> have
> > > a
> > > > > > > minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
> times
> > > and
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
> > > dowel
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > and the two straps instantly come apart.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
> > > some
> > > > > > > members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
> > > > > > > > The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
> > > looped
> > > > > > > > through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
> so
> > > the
> > > > > > > straps
> > > > > > > > can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed.
> Without
> > > the
> > > > > dowel,
> > > > > > > > they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > force of the pull.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Jerry Bransford
> > > > > > > > PP-ASEL N6TAY
> > > > > > > > See the Geezer Jeep at
> > > > > > > > http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> > > > > > > > "aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
> > > > > > > >
> > > news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> > > > > > > > > Very sad....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past,
> but
> > > > > recently a
> > > > > > > > > wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
> > > to
> > > > > > > > > connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
> > > > > dowel
> > > > > > > > > would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not
> have
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > weight/inertia to become a projectile.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
> > > > > > > > > "Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have
> been
> > > > > shed....I
> > > > > > > > >> don't
> > > > > > > > >> know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
> > > tugging
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> what
> > > > > > > > >> to use and not to use...
> > > > > > > > >> and I have already seen this joining two straps together by
> a
> > > > > > > cleavis....
> > > > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > > > >> know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
> > > happen
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > >> presence as it has really opened my eyes...
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
> > > > > > > > >> you are in our prayers....
> > > > > > > > >> Jeff
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> "JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > > > >> news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03...
> > > > > > > > >> > To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
> > > > > animals...
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
> > > > > > > > >> 6753&p=1
> > > > > > > > >> > --
> > > > > > > > >> > Gene
> > > > > > > > >> > Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > > > > |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > > > > ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
#77
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
Well ok Matt but I am convinced that there is way too much variability in
what everyone who would try this method might interpret as a suitable piece
of wood. And if what was demo'd was not done properly, it could result in
that chunk of wood becoming a missle that could be every bit as deadly as
the shackle that everyone should know is deadly in that useage.
I don't see any benefit at all of connecting the loops together only via a
piece of wood and not looping the loops through each other with a piece of
wood/dowel through them to assist in getting them apart after the pull is
completed as has been done since day one.
I'll continue looping my straps through each other when a winch or single
strap can't be used or available. :)
Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:9d-dnSN0zrQaz_DcRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
> connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However,
> IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety
> buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the
> vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the
> stuck
> vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in
> which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05...
>> But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my
> opinion,
>> a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of
>> wood
>> that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable
>> suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together
> and
>> using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At
>> least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could
> potentially
>> cause a problem for one of the two vehicles.
>>
>> Jerry
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> > Jerry,
>> >
>> > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
>> > demonstrated
>> > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the
>> > dowel
>> > as
>> > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter,
> we're
>> > not talking about a small piece of wood.
>> >
>> > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the
>> > dowel,
>> > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders
>> > (who
>> > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps
>> > would
>> > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the
>> > dowel
>> > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some
>> > energy
>> > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of
>> > steel that broke off.
>> >
>> > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long
> strap
>> > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning
>> > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance.
>> >
>> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but
>> >> be
>> > sure
>> >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other.
> The
>> >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from
>> >> being
>> >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly
>> >> impossible to separate.
>> >>
>> >> Jerry
>> >> --
>> >> Jerry Bransford
>> >> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> >> > Thanks in advance
>> >> >
>> >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> 2"
>> >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it,
>> >> >> using
> a
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
>> >> >> doesn't
>> >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip
> the
>> >> >> bark
>> >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> (b)
>> >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> >> >> without
>> >> >> unlooping.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
>> >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
>> >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the
>> >> >>>stick
>> >> >>>as
>> >> >>>part of the structure?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer
> handle
>> >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by
> just
>> >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> >> >>>talking
>> >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
>> >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
>> > sure
>> >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse'
> in
>> >> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
>> > fast
>> >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under
> pressure.
>> >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
>> >> >>>walls.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Mike
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
>> >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
>> >> >>
>> >> >> then
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
>> >> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under
>> >> >>>>>pressure.
>> > In
>> >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hard!.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>Mike
>> >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
>> >> >>
>> >> >> us a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
>> >> >>>>>>of
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Strap
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>1
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Strap 1,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>break
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
>> >> >>>>>>have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
>> >> >>>>>>times
>> >> >>
>> >> >> and
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>have
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
>> >> >>
>> >> >> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>out
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
>> >> >>
>> >> >> some
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> looped
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
>> >> >>>>>>>so
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>straps
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>dowel,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> >> >>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>recently a
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>dowel
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>shed....I
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> >> >>
>> >> >> tugging
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>and
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>what
>> >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
>> >> >>
>> >> >> happen
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>in
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>my
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>animals...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> >> >>>>>>>> |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
>> >> >>>>>>>> ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
what everyone who would try this method might interpret as a suitable piece
of wood. And if what was demo'd was not done properly, it could result in
that chunk of wood becoming a missle that could be every bit as deadly as
the shackle that everyone should know is deadly in that useage.
I don't see any benefit at all of connecting the loops together only via a
piece of wood and not looping the loops through each other with a piece of
wood/dowel through them to assist in getting them apart after the pull is
completed as has been done since day one.
I'll continue looping my straps through each other when a winch or single
strap can't be used or available. :)
Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:9d-dnSN0zrQaz_DcRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
> connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However,
> IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety
> buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the
> vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the
> stuck
> vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in
> which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05...
>> But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my
> opinion,
>> a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of
>> wood
>> that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable
>> suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together
> and
>> using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At
>> least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could
> potentially
>> cause a problem for one of the two vehicles.
>>
>> Jerry
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> > Jerry,
>> >
>> > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
>> > demonstrated
>> > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the
>> > dowel
>> > as
>> > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter,
> we're
>> > not talking about a small piece of wood.
>> >
>> > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the
>> > dowel,
>> > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders
>> > (who
>> > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps
>> > would
>> > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the
>> > dowel
>> > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some
>> > energy
>> > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of
>> > steel that broke off.
>> >
>> > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long
> strap
>> > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning
>> > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance.
>> >
>> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but
>> >> be
>> > sure
>> >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other.
> The
>> >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from
>> >> being
>> >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly
>> >> impossible to separate.
>> >>
>> >> Jerry
>> >> --
>> >> Jerry Bransford
>> >> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> >> > Thanks in advance
>> >> >
>> >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> 2"
>> >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it,
>> >> >> using
> a
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
>> >> >> doesn't
>> >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip
> the
>> >> >> bark
>> >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> (b)
>> >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> >> >> without
>> >> >> unlooping.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
>> >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
>> >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the
>> >> >>>stick
>> >> >>>as
>> >> >>>part of the structure?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer
> handle
>> >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by
> just
>> >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> >> >>>talking
>> >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
>> >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
>> > sure
>> >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse'
> in
>> >> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
>> > fast
>> >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under
> pressure.
>> >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
>> >> >>>walls.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Mike
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
>> >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
>> >> >>
>> >> >> then
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
>> >> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under
>> >> >>>>>pressure.
>> > In
>> >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hard!.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>Mike
>> >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
>> >> >>
>> >> >> us a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
>> >> >>>>>>of
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Strap
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>1
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Strap 1,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>break
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
>> >> >>>>>>have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
>> >> >>>>>>times
>> >> >>
>> >> >> and
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>have
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
>> >> >>
>> >> >> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>out
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
>> >> >>
>> >> >> some
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> looped
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
>> >> >>>>>>>so
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>straps
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>dowel,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> >> >>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>recently a
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>dowel
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>shed....I
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> >> >>
>> >> >> tugging
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>and
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>what
>> >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
>> >> >>
>> >> >> happen
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>in
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>my
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>animals...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> >> >>>>>>>> |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
>> >> >>>>>>>> ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
#78
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
Well ok Matt but I am convinced that there is way too much variability in
what everyone who would try this method might interpret as a suitable piece
of wood. And if what was demo'd was not done properly, it could result in
that chunk of wood becoming a missle that could be every bit as deadly as
the shackle that everyone should know is deadly in that useage.
I don't see any benefit at all of connecting the loops together only via a
piece of wood and not looping the loops through each other with a piece of
wood/dowel through them to assist in getting them apart after the pull is
completed as has been done since day one.
I'll continue looping my straps through each other when a winch or single
strap can't be used or available. :)
Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:9d-dnSN0zrQaz_DcRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
> connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However,
> IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety
> buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the
> vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the
> stuck
> vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in
> which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05...
>> But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my
> opinion,
>> a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of
>> wood
>> that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable
>> suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together
> and
>> using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At
>> least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could
> potentially
>> cause a problem for one of the two vehicles.
>>
>> Jerry
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> > Jerry,
>> >
>> > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
>> > demonstrated
>> > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the
>> > dowel
>> > as
>> > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter,
> we're
>> > not talking about a small piece of wood.
>> >
>> > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the
>> > dowel,
>> > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders
>> > (who
>> > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps
>> > would
>> > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the
>> > dowel
>> > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some
>> > energy
>> > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of
>> > steel that broke off.
>> >
>> > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long
> strap
>> > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning
>> > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance.
>> >
>> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but
>> >> be
>> > sure
>> >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other.
> The
>> >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from
>> >> being
>> >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly
>> >> impossible to separate.
>> >>
>> >> Jerry
>> >> --
>> >> Jerry Bransford
>> >> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> >> > Thanks in advance
>> >> >
>> >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> 2"
>> >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it,
>> >> >> using
> a
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
>> >> >> doesn't
>> >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip
> the
>> >> >> bark
>> >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> (b)
>> >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> >> >> without
>> >> >> unlooping.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
>> >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
>> >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the
>> >> >>>stick
>> >> >>>as
>> >> >>>part of the structure?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer
> handle
>> >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by
> just
>> >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> >> >>>talking
>> >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
>> >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
>> > sure
>> >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse'
> in
>> >> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
>> > fast
>> >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under
> pressure.
>> >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
>> >> >>>walls.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Mike
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
>> >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
>> >> >>
>> >> >> then
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
>> >> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under
>> >> >>>>>pressure.
>> > In
>> >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hard!.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>Mike
>> >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
>> >> >>
>> >> >> us a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
>> >> >>>>>>of
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Strap
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>1
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Strap 1,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>break
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
>> >> >>>>>>have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
>> >> >>>>>>times
>> >> >>
>> >> >> and
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>have
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
>> >> >>
>> >> >> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>out
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
>> >> >>
>> >> >> some
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> looped
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
>> >> >>>>>>>so
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>straps
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>dowel,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> >> >>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>recently a
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>dowel
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>shed....I
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> >> >>
>> >> >> tugging
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>and
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>what
>> >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
>> >> >>
>> >> >> happen
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>in
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>my
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>animals...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> >> >>>>>>>> |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
>> >> >>>>>>>> ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
what everyone who would try this method might interpret as a suitable piece
of wood. And if what was demo'd was not done properly, it could result in
that chunk of wood becoming a missle that could be every bit as deadly as
the shackle that everyone should know is deadly in that useage.
I don't see any benefit at all of connecting the loops together only via a
piece of wood and not looping the loops through each other with a piece of
wood/dowel through them to assist in getting them apart after the pull is
completed as has been done since day one.
I'll continue looping my straps through each other when a winch or single
strap can't be used or available. :)
Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:9d-dnSN0zrQaz_DcRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
> connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However,
> IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety
> buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the
> vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the
> stuck
> vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in
> which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05...
>> But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my
> opinion,
>> a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of
>> wood
>> that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable
>> suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together
> and
>> using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At
>> least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could
> potentially
>> cause a problem for one of the two vehicles.
>>
>> Jerry
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> > Jerry,
>> >
>> > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
>> > demonstrated
>> > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the
>> > dowel
>> > as
>> > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter,
> we're
>> > not talking about a small piece of wood.
>> >
>> > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the
>> > dowel,
>> > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders
>> > (who
>> > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps
>> > would
>> > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the
>> > dowel
>> > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some
>> > energy
>> > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of
>> > steel that broke off.
>> >
>> > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long
> strap
>> > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning
>> > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance.
>> >
>> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but
>> >> be
>> > sure
>> >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other.
> The
>> >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from
>> >> being
>> >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly
>> >> impossible to separate.
>> >>
>> >> Jerry
>> >> --
>> >> Jerry Bransford
>> >> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> >> > Thanks in advance
>> >> >
>> >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> 2"
>> >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it,
>> >> >> using
> a
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
>> >> >> doesn't
>> >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip
> the
>> >> >> bark
>> >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> (b)
>> >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> >> >> without
>> >> >> unlooping.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
>> >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
>> >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the
>> >> >>>stick
>> >> >>>as
>> >> >>>part of the structure?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer
> handle
>> >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by
> just
>> >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> >> >>>talking
>> >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
>> >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
>> > sure
>> >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse'
> in
>> >> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
>> > fast
>> >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under
> pressure.
>> >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
>> >> >>>walls.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Mike
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
>> >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
>> >> >>
>> >> >> then
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
>> >> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under
>> >> >>>>>pressure.
>> > In
>> >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hard!.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>Mike
>> >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
>> >> >>
>> >> >> us a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
>> >> >>>>>>of
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Strap
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>1
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Strap 1,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>break
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
>> >> >>>>>>have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
>> >> >>>>>>times
>> >> >>
>> >> >> and
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>have
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
>> >> >>
>> >> >> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>out
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
>> >> >>
>> >> >> some
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> looped
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
>> >> >>>>>>>so
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>straps
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>dowel,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> >> >>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>recently a
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>dowel
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>shed....I
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> >> >>
>> >> >> tugging
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>and
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>what
>> >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
>> >> >>
>> >> >> happen
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>in
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>my
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>animals...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> >> >>>>>>>> |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
>> >> >>>>>>>> ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
#79
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
Well ok Matt but I am convinced that there is way too much variability in
what everyone who would try this method might interpret as a suitable piece
of wood. And if what was demo'd was not done properly, it could result in
that chunk of wood becoming a missle that could be every bit as deadly as
the shackle that everyone should know is deadly in that useage.
I don't see any benefit at all of connecting the loops together only via a
piece of wood and not looping the loops through each other with a piece of
wood/dowel through them to assist in getting them apart after the pull is
completed as has been done since day one.
I'll continue looping my straps through each other when a winch or single
strap can't be used or available. :)
Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:9d-dnSN0zrQaz_DcRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
> connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However,
> IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety
> buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the
> vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the
> stuck
> vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in
> which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05...
>> But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my
> opinion,
>> a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of
>> wood
>> that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable
>> suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together
> and
>> using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At
>> least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could
> potentially
>> cause a problem for one of the two vehicles.
>>
>> Jerry
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> > Jerry,
>> >
>> > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
>> > demonstrated
>> > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the
>> > dowel
>> > as
>> > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter,
> we're
>> > not talking about a small piece of wood.
>> >
>> > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the
>> > dowel,
>> > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders
>> > (who
>> > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps
>> > would
>> > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the
>> > dowel
>> > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some
>> > energy
>> > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of
>> > steel that broke off.
>> >
>> > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long
> strap
>> > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning
>> > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance.
>> >
>> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but
>> >> be
>> > sure
>> >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other.
> The
>> >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from
>> >> being
>> >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly
>> >> impossible to separate.
>> >>
>> >> Jerry
>> >> --
>> >> Jerry Bransford
>> >> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> >> > Thanks in advance
>> >> >
>> >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> 2"
>> >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it,
>> >> >> using
> a
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
>> >> >> doesn't
>> >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip
> the
>> >> >> bark
>> >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> (b)
>> >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> >> >> without
>> >> >> unlooping.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
>> >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
>> >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the
>> >> >>>stick
>> >> >>>as
>> >> >>>part of the structure?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer
> handle
>> >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by
> just
>> >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> >> >>>talking
>> >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
>> >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
>> > sure
>> >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse'
> in
>> >> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
>> > fast
>> >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under
> pressure.
>> >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
>> >> >>>walls.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Mike
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
>> >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
>> >> >>
>> >> >> then
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
>> >> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under
>> >> >>>>>pressure.
>> > In
>> >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hard!.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>Mike
>> >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
>> >> >>
>> >> >> us a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
>> >> >>>>>>of
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Strap
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>1
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Strap 1,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>break
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
>> >> >>>>>>have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
>> >> >>>>>>times
>> >> >>
>> >> >> and
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>have
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
>> >> >>
>> >> >> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>out
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
>> >> >>
>> >> >> some
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> looped
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
>> >> >>>>>>>so
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>straps
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>dowel,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> >> >>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>recently a
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>dowel
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>shed....I
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> >> >>
>> >> >> tugging
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>and
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>what
>> >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
>> >> >>
>> >> >> happen
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>in
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>my
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>animals...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> >> >>>>>>>> |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
>> >> >>>>>>>> ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
what everyone who would try this method might interpret as a suitable piece
of wood. And if what was demo'd was not done properly, it could result in
that chunk of wood becoming a missle that could be every bit as deadly as
the shackle that everyone should know is deadly in that useage.
I don't see any benefit at all of connecting the loops together only via a
piece of wood and not looping the loops through each other with a piece of
wood/dowel through them to assist in getting them apart after the pull is
completed as has been done since day one.
I'll continue looping my straps through each other when a winch or single
strap can't be used or available. :)
Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:9d-dnSN0zrQaz_DcRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
> connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However,
> IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety
> buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the
> vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the
> stuck
> vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in
> which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05...
>> But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my
> opinion,
>> a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of
>> wood
>> that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable
>> suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together
> and
>> using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At
>> least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could
> potentially
>> cause a problem for one of the two vehicles.
>>
>> Jerry
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> > Jerry,
>> >
>> > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
>> > demonstrated
>> > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the
>> > dowel
>> > as
>> > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter,
> we're
>> > not talking about a small piece of wood.
>> >
>> > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the
>> > dowel,
>> > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders
>> > (who
>> > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps
>> > would
>> > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the
>> > dowel
>> > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some
>> > energy
>> > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of
>> > steel that broke off.
>> >
>> > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long
> strap
>> > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning
>> > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance.
>> >
>> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but
>> >> be
>> > sure
>> >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other.
> The
>> >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from
>> >> being
>> >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly
>> >> impossible to separate.
>> >>
>> >> Jerry
>> >> --
>> >> Jerry Bransford
>> >> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> >> > Thanks in advance
>> >> >
>> >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> 2"
>> >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it,
>> >> >> using
> a
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
>> >> >> doesn't
>> >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip
> the
>> >> >> bark
>> >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> (b)
>> >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> >> >> without
>> >> >> unlooping.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
>> >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
>> >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the
>> >> >>>stick
>> >> >>>as
>> >> >>>part of the structure?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer
> handle
>> >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by
> just
>> >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> >> >>>talking
>> >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
>> >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
>> > sure
>> >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse'
> in
>> >> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
>> > fast
>> >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under
> pressure.
>> >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
>> >> >>>walls.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Mike
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
>> >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> holding
>> >> >>
>> >> >> then
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo,
> two
>> >> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under
>> >> >>>>>pressure.
>> > In
>> >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hard!.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>Mike
>> >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> showed
>> >> >>
>> >> >> us a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end
>> >> >>>>>>of
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Strap
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>1
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop
> of
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Strap 1,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it
> will
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>break
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
>> >> >>>>>>have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> a
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
>> >> >>>>>>times
>> >> >>
>> >> >> and
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>have
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
>> >> >>
>> >> >> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>out
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am
> sure
>> >> >>
>> >> >> some
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> looped
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there
>> >> >>>>>>>so
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>straps
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>dowel,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other
> due
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> >> >>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>recently a
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> dowel
>> >> >>
>> >> >> to
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe
> the
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>dowel
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>shed....I
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> friend...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> >> >>
>> >> >> tugging
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>and
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>what
>> >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
>> >> >>
>> >> >> happen
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>in
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>my
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>animals...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>--
>> >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> >> >>>>>>>> |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
>> >> >>>>>>>> ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
#80
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
Do the world a favor, and the next time you see this "toggle"
demonstrated, jump up on the stag and correct them.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Of course the dowel sees the forces of towing, but it is not impact forces
> like a bat and baseball contacting.
>
> If a tow hook goes, then using a dowel as a toggle will mean the connection
> will immediately loosen and absorb some of the projectile energy that would
> otherwise be transmitted to the hook. By using the dowel as a means to
> disconnect the looped-together straps, it becomes part of the projectile as
> well.
demonstrated, jump up on the stag and correct them.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Of course the dowel sees the forces of towing, but it is not impact forces
> like a bat and baseball contacting.
>
> If a tow hook goes, then using a dowel as a toggle will mean the connection
> will immediately loosen and absorb some of the projectile energy that would
> otherwise be transmitted to the hook. By using the dowel as a means to
> disconnect the looped-together straps, it becomes part of the projectile as
> well.