Re: Superwinch = junk
09-09-2003, 10:49 PM
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
that is just a thrust vector (the block) in that case it is merely a 1:1, I
don't think that was the intention.
to multiply force it has to be:
Tree
|
(block)
| |
| |
| |
Winch Hook
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:pG47b.4469$124.42209322@news-text.cableinet.net...
>
> Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be
desired.
>
> Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
> |
> |
> Vehicle
>
> still maintain its 1 for 1.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F5C8423.17C2370F@sympatico.ca...
> : You are correct Bill, I just read the original statement again.
> :
> : The winch went to a ****** block on the stuck vehicle, then to a tree
> : which gives at least a 2:1 pull if the tree is beside the winch.
> :
> : Mike
> :
> : "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> : >
> : > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> : > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> : > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> : > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> : >
> : > Mike Romain wrote:
> : > >
> : > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
> line
> : > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> : > >
> : > > Think block and tackle....
> : > >
> : > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily,
but
> : > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
> an
> : > > angle changer.
> : > >
> : > > Mike
> : > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> : > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
>
don't think that was the intention.
to multiply force it has to be:
Tree
|
(block)
| |
| |
| |
Winch Hook
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:pG47b.4469$124.42209322@news-text.cableinet.net...
>
> Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be
desired.
>
> Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
> |
> |
> Vehicle
>
> still maintain its 1 for 1.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F5C8423.17C2370F@sympatico.ca...
> : You are correct Bill, I just read the original statement again.
> :
> : The winch went to a ****** block on the stuck vehicle, then to a tree
> : which gives at least a 2:1 pull if the tree is beside the winch.
> :
> : Mike
> :
> : "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> : >
> : > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> : > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> : > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> : > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> : >
> : > Mike Romain wrote:
> : > >
> : > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
> line
> : > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> : > >
> : > > Think block and tackle....
> : > >
> : > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily,
but
> : > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
> an
> : > > angle changer.
> : > >
> : > > Mike
> : > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> : > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
>
09-09-2003, 11:12 PM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
This thread is frightening.
it would appear that our collective mastery of simple machines only slightly
surpasses our artistic ability.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20030909212118.23171.00000620@mb-m05.aol.com...
> In article <vlsi9ddjk1bnad@corp.supernews.com>, "Jeff Strickland"
> <beerman@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >It might move along a diagonal path until there was a straight line
between
> >the winch and the tree, but this is not a very efficient way to winch.
>
> Agreed, but it would be the only way to get more than a 1:1 pull ratio on
the
> stuck vehicle, until the winch line is straight and the stuck vehicle is
no
> longer moving.
>
> Your diagram is 2:1.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
it would appear that our collective mastery of simple machines only slightly
surpasses our artistic ability.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20030909212118.23171.00000620@mb-m05.aol.com...
> In article <vlsi9ddjk1bnad@corp.supernews.com>, "Jeff Strickland"
> <beerman@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >It might move along a diagonal path until there was a straight line
between
> >the winch and the tree, but this is not a very efficient way to winch.
>
> Agreed, but it would be the only way to get more than a 1:1 pull ratio on
the
> stuck vehicle, until the winch line is straight and the stuck vehicle is
no
> longer moving.
>
> Your diagram is 2:1.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
09-09-2003, 11:12 PM
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
This thread is frightening.
it would appear that our collective mastery of simple machines only slightly
surpasses our artistic ability.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20030909212118.23171.00000620@mb-m05.aol.com...
> In article <vlsi9ddjk1bnad@corp.supernews.com>, "Jeff Strickland"
> <beerman@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >It might move along a diagonal path until there was a straight line
between
> >the winch and the tree, but this is not a very efficient way to winch.
>
> Agreed, but it would be the only way to get more than a 1:1 pull ratio on
the
> stuck vehicle, until the winch line is straight and the stuck vehicle is
no
> longer moving.
>
> Your diagram is 2:1.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
it would appear that our collective mastery of simple machines only slightly
surpasses our artistic ability.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20030909212118.23171.00000620@mb-m05.aol.com...
> In article <vlsi9ddjk1bnad@corp.supernews.com>, "Jeff Strickland"
> <beerman@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >It might move along a diagonal path until there was a straight line
between
> >the winch and the tree, but this is not a very efficient way to winch.
>
> Agreed, but it would be the only way to get more than a 1:1 pull ratio on
the
> stuck vehicle, until the winch line is straight and the stuck vehicle is
no
> longer moving.
>
> Your diagram is 2:1.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
09-10-2003, 12:42 AM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>>Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
>> |
>> |
>> Winching Vehicle
>>
>
>
>
> Couldn't you get more pulling strength by putting the stuck vehicle
> with the winch at the end of the cable and the tree at the other, and
> then running the cable from the jeep to the tree several times? For
> each loop you make, you're going to halve the speed and double the
> power.
By George, I think he's got it!
Except in that diagram, that stuck vehicle is you with your Barbie
winch, while the winching vehicle is someone who knew what they were
doing when they bought their winch.
>>Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
>> |
>> |
>> Winching Vehicle
>>
>
>
>
> Couldn't you get more pulling strength by putting the stuck vehicle
> with the winch at the end of the cable and the tree at the other, and
> then running the cable from the jeep to the tree several times? For
> each loop you make, you're going to halve the speed and double the
> power.
By George, I think he's got it!
Except in that diagram, that stuck vehicle is you with your Barbie
winch, while the winching vehicle is someone who knew what they were
doing when they bought their winch.
09-10-2003, 12:42 AM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>>Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
>> |
>> |
>> Winching Vehicle
>>
>
>
>
> Couldn't you get more pulling strength by putting the stuck vehicle
> with the winch at the end of the cable and the tree at the other, and
> then running the cable from the jeep to the tree several times? For
> each loop you make, you're going to halve the speed and double the
> power.
By George, I think he's got it!
Except in that diagram, that stuck vehicle is you with your Barbie
winch, while the winching vehicle is someone who knew what they were
doing when they bought their winch.
>>Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
>> |
>> |
>> Winching Vehicle
>>
>
>
>
> Couldn't you get more pulling strength by putting the stuck vehicle
> with the winch at the end of the cable and the tree at the other, and
> then running the cable from the jeep to the tree several times? For
> each loop you make, you're going to halve the speed and double the
> power.
By George, I think he's got it!
Except in that diagram, that stuck vehicle is you with your Barbie
winch, while the winching vehicle is someone who knew what they were
doing when they bought their winch.
09-10-2003, 03:00 AM
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
: go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that day.
:
: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round 90
: degrees.
: > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
: >
: > --
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
: > : I just read the original again:
: > :
: > : --------------
: > :
: > : "The video featured configuration was this:
: > :
: > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
: > : cableEnd]"
: > :
: > : --------------
: > :
: > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
: > :
: > : Mike
: > :
: > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
: > : >
: > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the driving
force
: > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the force,
since
: > it is
: > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block, then to
: > another
: > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then, and only
: then
: > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
: > : >
: > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: > : > > Huh???
: > : > >
: > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have
twenty
: > of
: > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the
: 20
: > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
: > : > >
: > : > > Mike
: > : > >
: > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > : > > >
: > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > : > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: > : > > >
: > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle
with
: > the
: > : > line
: > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift
: easily,
: > but
: > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit,
not
: > just
: > : > an
: > : > > > > angle changer.
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > Mike
: > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
: >
: >
:
:
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
: go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that day.
:
: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round 90
: degrees.
: > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
: >
: > --
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
: > : I just read the original again:
: > :
: > : --------------
: > :
: > : "The video featured configuration was this:
: > :
: > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
: > : cableEnd]"
: > :
: > : --------------
: > :
: > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
: > :
: > : Mike
: > :
: > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
: > : >
: > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the driving
force
: > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the force,
since
: > it is
: > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block, then to
: > another
: > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then, and only
: then
: > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
: > : >
: > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: > : > > Huh???
: > : > >
: > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have
twenty
: > of
: > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the
: 20
: > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
: > : > >
: > : > > Mike
: > : > >
: > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > : > > >
: > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > : > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: > : > > >
: > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle
with
: > the
: > : > line
: > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift
: easily,
: > but
: > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit,
not
: > just
: > : > an
: > : > > > > angle changer.
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > Mike
: > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
: >
: >
:
:
09-10-2003, 03:00 AM
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
: go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that day.
:
: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round 90
: degrees.
: > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
: >
: > --
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
: > : I just read the original again:
: > :
: > : --------------
: > :
: > : "The video featured configuration was this:
: > :
: > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
: > : cableEnd]"
: > :
: > : --------------
: > :
: > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
: > :
: > : Mike
: > :
: > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
: > : >
: > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the driving
force
: > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the force,
since
: > it is
: > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block, then to
: > another
: > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then, and only
: then
: > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
: > : >
: > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: > : > > Huh???
: > : > >
: > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have
twenty
: > of
: > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the
: 20
: > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
: > : > >
: > : > > Mike
: > : > >
: > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > : > > >
: > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > : > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: > : > > >
: > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle
with
: > the
: > : > line
: > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift
: easily,
: > but
: > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit,
not
: > just
: > : > an
: > : > > > > angle changer.
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > Mike
: > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
: >
: >
:
:
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
: go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that day.
:
: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round 90
: degrees.
: > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
: >
: > --
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
: > : I just read the original again:
: > :
: > : --------------
: > :
: > : "The video featured configuration was this:
: > :
: > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
: > : cableEnd]"
: > :
: > : --------------
: > :
: > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
: > :
: > : Mike
: > :
: > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
: > : >
: > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the driving
force
: > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the force,
since
: > it is
: > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block, then to
: > another
: > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then, and only
: then
: > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
: > : >
: > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: > : > > Huh???
: > : > >
: > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have
twenty
: > of
: > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the
: 20
: > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
: > : > >
: > : > > Mike
: > : > >
: > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > : > > >
: > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > : > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: > : > > >
: > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle
with
: > the
: > : > line
: > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift
: easily,
: > but
: > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit,
not
: > just
: > : > an
: > : > > > > angle changer.
: > : > > > >
: > : > > > > Mike
: > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
: >
: >
:
:
09-10-2003, 08:49 AM
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
That is NOT a 2:1 pull. Not if the two cable sections on the pulled vehicle
(in this case, the pulling vehicle, too) don't both go in exactly the same
direction. The pull is the combined vector created by the two individual
pulls. If the cables go off at 90* from each other, the combined pull is
the square root of 2, or 1.414:1. If the cables go off in opposite
directions, or 180*, the combined pull on the vehicle is 0. Yes, the
individual cables may rip the tow hooks off, but only if a single cable
would rip the hook off when pulling in the same direction against a vehicle
that was un-movable. (I probably shouldn't have added that last statement.
I'm not sure anyone will understand it.)
Any winch pull can be easily calculated by combining the vectors of each
pulling cable directly or indirectly attached to the pulled vehicle. If you
have three pulling cables all going in the same direction (out, around
block, back, around block, out, attached) your pull will be 3:1. I don't
care how many blocks you have in your rigging, if you only have one pulling
cable attached to your vehicle, you have a 1:1 pull. Period. (When I say
attached, though, I mean directly attached or indirectly attached (like via
a block that is attached to the vehicle) and part of the pulling rigging.)
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20030909212117.23171.00000619@mb-m05.aol.com...
> In article <b102b6e4.0309091315.e399b49@posting.google.com> ,
spam_box@ev1.net
> (Joshua Nelson) writes:
>
> >So all I need to do then is buy a much
> >longer cable. If I could get, say, 200' of cable, and buy 4 ******
> >blocks, then I could run the cable around four different trees and
> >back to the jeep. This would make for a weird pentagon shaped cable
> >layout, but would also give me a total of 144,000 lbs of winching
> >strength.
>
> Like this? (each tree has a pulley)
>
> tree
> / \
> tree tree
> / \
> tree tree
> \ /
> Jeep
> You'd still have 2:1 ratio and you'd rip your tow hook and/or winch off
your
> Jeep when the line pulls in one direction and the hook pulls in the other.
>
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
(in this case, the pulling vehicle, too) don't both go in exactly the same
direction. The pull is the combined vector created by the two individual
pulls. If the cables go off at 90* from each other, the combined pull is
the square root of 2, or 1.414:1. If the cables go off in opposite
directions, or 180*, the combined pull on the vehicle is 0. Yes, the
individual cables may rip the tow hooks off, but only if a single cable
would rip the hook off when pulling in the same direction against a vehicle
that was un-movable. (I probably shouldn't have added that last statement.
I'm not sure anyone will understand it.)
Any winch pull can be easily calculated by combining the vectors of each
pulling cable directly or indirectly attached to the pulled vehicle. If you
have three pulling cables all going in the same direction (out, around
block, back, around block, out, attached) your pull will be 3:1. I don't
care how many blocks you have in your rigging, if you only have one pulling
cable attached to your vehicle, you have a 1:1 pull. Period. (When I say
attached, though, I mean directly attached or indirectly attached (like via
a block that is attached to the vehicle) and part of the pulling rigging.)
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20030909212117.23171.00000619@mb-m05.aol.com...
> In article <b102b6e4.0309091315.e399b49@posting.google.com> ,
spam_box@ev1.net
> (Joshua Nelson) writes:
>
> >So all I need to do then is buy a much
> >longer cable. If I could get, say, 200' of cable, and buy 4 ******
> >blocks, then I could run the cable around four different trees and
> >back to the jeep. This would make for a weird pentagon shaped cable
> >layout, but would also give me a total of 144,000 lbs of winching
> >strength.
>
> Like this? (each tree has a pulley)
>
> tree
> / \
> tree tree
> / \
> tree tree
> \ /
> Jeep
> You'd still have 2:1 ratio and you'd rip your tow hook and/or winch off
your
> Jeep when the line pulls in one direction and the hook pulls in the other.
>
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
09-10-2003, 08:49 AM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
That is NOT a 2:1 pull. Not if the two cable sections on the pulled vehicle
(in this case, the pulling vehicle, too) don't both go in exactly the same
direction. The pull is the combined vector created by the two individual
pulls. If the cables go off at 90* from each other, the combined pull is
the square root of 2, or 1.414:1. If the cables go off in opposite
directions, or 180*, the combined pull on the vehicle is 0. Yes, the
individual cables may rip the tow hooks off, but only if a single cable
would rip the hook off when pulling in the same direction against a vehicle
that was un-movable. (I probably shouldn't have added that last statement.
I'm not sure anyone will understand it.)
Any winch pull can be easily calculated by combining the vectors of each
pulling cable directly or indirectly attached to the pulled vehicle. If you
have three pulling cables all going in the same direction (out, around
block, back, around block, out, attached) your pull will be 3:1. I don't
care how many blocks you have in your rigging, if you only have one pulling
cable attached to your vehicle, you have a 1:1 pull. Period. (When I say
attached, though, I mean directly attached or indirectly attached (like via
a block that is attached to the vehicle) and part of the pulling rigging.)
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20030909212117.23171.00000619@mb-m05.aol.com...
> In article <b102b6e4.0309091315.e399b49@posting.google.com> ,
spam_box@ev1.net
> (Joshua Nelson) writes:
>
> >So all I need to do then is buy a much
> >longer cable. If I could get, say, 200' of cable, and buy 4 ******
> >blocks, then I could run the cable around four different trees and
> >back to the jeep. This would make for a weird pentagon shaped cable
> >layout, but would also give me a total of 144,000 lbs of winching
> >strength.
>
> Like this? (each tree has a pulley)
>
> tree
> / \
> tree tree
> / \
> tree tree
> \ /
> Jeep
> You'd still have 2:1 ratio and you'd rip your tow hook and/or winch off
your
> Jeep when the line pulls in one direction and the hook pulls in the other.
>
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
(in this case, the pulling vehicle, too) don't both go in exactly the same
direction. The pull is the combined vector created by the two individual
pulls. If the cables go off at 90* from each other, the combined pull is
the square root of 2, or 1.414:1. If the cables go off in opposite
directions, or 180*, the combined pull on the vehicle is 0. Yes, the
individual cables may rip the tow hooks off, but only if a single cable
would rip the hook off when pulling in the same direction against a vehicle
that was un-movable. (I probably shouldn't have added that last statement.
I'm not sure anyone will understand it.)
Any winch pull can be easily calculated by combining the vectors of each
pulling cable directly or indirectly attached to the pulled vehicle. If you
have three pulling cables all going in the same direction (out, around
block, back, around block, out, attached) your pull will be 3:1. I don't
care how many blocks you have in your rigging, if you only have one pulling
cable attached to your vehicle, you have a 1:1 pull. Period. (When I say
attached, though, I mean directly attached or indirectly attached (like via
a block that is attached to the vehicle) and part of the pulling rigging.)
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20030909212117.23171.00000619@mb-m05.aol.com...
> In article <b102b6e4.0309091315.e399b49@posting.google.com> ,
spam_box@ev1.net
> (Joshua Nelson) writes:
>
> >So all I need to do then is buy a much
> >longer cable. If I could get, say, 200' of cable, and buy 4 ******
> >blocks, then I could run the cable around four different trees and
> >back to the jeep. This would make for a weird pentagon shaped cable
> >layout, but would also give me a total of 144,000 lbs of winching
> >strength.
>
> Like this? (each tree has a pulley)
>
> tree
> / \
> tree tree
> / \
> tree tree
> \ /
> Jeep
> You'd still have 2:1 ratio and you'd rip your tow hook and/or winch off
your
> Jeep when the line pulls in one direction and the hook pulls in the other.
>
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
09-10-2003, 10:12 AM
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Umm Dave, look again at my string example.
If your left hand with the end of the string line is the tree or any
other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the string around
your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your right hand
(the winch), your foot only moves 6".
Mike
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
> : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that day.
> :
> : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
> : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round 90
> : degrees.
> : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
> : >
> : > --
> : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> : >
> : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
> : > : I just read the original again:
> : > :
> : > : --------------
> : > :
> : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
> : > :
> : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
> : > : cableEnd]"
> : > :
> : > : --------------
> : > :
> : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
> : > :
> : > : Mike
> : > :
> : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
> : > : >
> : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the driving
> force
> : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the force,
> since
> : > it is
> : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block, then to
> : > another
> : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then, and only
> : then
> : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
> : > : >
> : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> : > : > > Huh???
> : > : > >
> : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have
> twenty
> : > of
> : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the
> : 20
> : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
> : > : > >
> : > : > > Mike
> : > : > >
> : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> : > : > > >
> : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> : > : > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> : > : > > >
> : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> : > : > > > >
> : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle
> with
> : > the
> : > : > line
> : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> : > : > > > >
> : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
> : > : > > > >
> : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift
> : easily,
> : > but
> : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit,
> not
> : > just
> : > : > an
> : > : > > > > angle changer.
> : > : > > > >
> : > : > > > > Mike
> : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> : >
> : >
> :
> :
If your left hand with the end of the string line is the tree or any
other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the string around
your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your right hand
(the winch), your foot only moves 6".
Mike
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
> : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that day.
> :
> : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
> : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round 90
> : degrees.
> : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
> : >
> : > --
> : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> : >
> : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
> : > : I just read the original again:
> : > :
> : > : --------------
> : > :
> : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
> : > :
> : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
> : > : cableEnd]"
> : > :
> : > : --------------
> : > :
> : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
> : > :
> : > : Mike
> : > :
> : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
> : > : >
> : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the driving
> force
> : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the force,
> since
> : > it is
> : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block, then to
> : > another
> : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then, and only
> : then
> : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
> : > : >
> : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> : > : > > Huh???
> : > : > >
> : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have
> twenty
> : > of
> : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the
> : 20
> : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
> : > : > >
> : > : > > Mike
> : > : > >
> : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> : > : > > >
> : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> : > : > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> : > : > > >
> : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> : > : > > > >
> : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle
> with
> : > the
> : > : > line
> : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> : > : > > > >
> : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
> : > : > > > >
> : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift
> : easily,
> : > but
> : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit,
> not
> : > just
> : > : > an
> : > : > > > > angle changer.
> : > : > > > >
> : > : > > > > Mike
> : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> : >
> : >
> :
> :