Re: Superwinch = junk
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
I for sure missed that part! Actually I didn't, looking back at it, I
got it right the first guess, then saw some other drawings and lost it
somewhere in there...
My first thought was just an angle changer, but since that made no sense
to actually do I figured the stuck vehicle had to be the ****** block
one.
That is why I put out the two hands and a foot with a piece of string
analogy to see if we were all on the same page.
We obviously weren't.
I thought they were doing some funky 3 point to get something out on a
strange angle under extra power....
Yup, that was a total waste of time to hook to the tree, if he wanted
the added power from a ****** block, he needed to run the cable back to
himself.
He would have done better to have the ****** block vehicle hit it in
reverse, then they would only need 3/4 or half the oomph depending on
angles to pull him out.
Is this video online anywhere?
No wonder this thread is so damn confusing....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
TJim wrote:
>
> Except that the cablestart truck was the one pulling himself out. Instead
> of going through the block to the tree, he could have just as well attached
> his cable to the snatchblock vehicle. The cablestart truck only has one
> cable attached to him (the one from his own winch), so it is a 1:1 pull
> whether he goes directly to the other truck or through 16 ****** blocks to a
> tree behind him. He is still only pulling himself with one winch and one
> cable.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F5F82C3.512A00B@sympatico.ca...
> > Ahhh... Now I understand!
> >
> > The stuck vehicle was the foot in the example I was referring to....
> >
> > See:
> >
> > "The video featured configuration was this:
> >
> > truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
> > cableEnd]"
> >
> > The truck with the cable start was the winch or your right hand, the
> > tree, cable end is your left hand, the snatchblock vehicle is you foot.
> >
> > The only advantage for this would be to pull the stuck vehicle out at a
> > different angle than the tow vehicle could line up to with a pull
> > increase of somewhere between a 2:1 and a 1.4 ratio.
> >
> > Much easier to run the cable to the tree and then to the vehicle which
> > is a 1:1 but even then maybe that tree wasn't in the right place to get
> > the vehicle out safe, so they split the angle difference of the pull.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > Dave Milne wrote:
> > >
> > > nah, the right hand is the stuck vehicle in the example.
> > > I really don't see the benefit of this "technique" ; the tree seems
> > > irrelevant.
> > >
> > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3F5F6C0B.AFDF764B@sympatico.ca...
> > > : Well, 'let' you freaking foot (stuck vehicle) move then. If it don't
> > > : move, that stuck vehicle in the swamp ain't moving either...
> > > : ;-)
> > > :
> > > : Mike
> > > :
> > > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > > : >
> > > : > Unfortunately that's not modelling the situation correctly as the
> foot
> > > : > doesn't move.
> > > : >
> > > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > : >
> > > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > : > news:3F5F3136.3285D069@sympatico.ca...
> > > : > : Umm Dave, look again at my string example.
> > > : > :
> > > : > : If your left hand with the end of the string line is the tree or
> any
> > > : > : other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the string
> around
> > > : > : your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your right
> hand
> > > : > : (the winch), your foot only moves 6".
> > > : > :
> > > : > : Mike
> > > : > :
> > > : > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > > : > : >
> > > : > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
> > > : > : >
> > > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > : > : >
> > > : > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote
> in
> > > : > message
> > > : > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
> > > : > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that
> > > day.
> > > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > > : > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > > : > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley
> round
> > > 90
> > > : > : > : degrees.
> > > : > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
> > > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > : > --
> > > : > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > : > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > : > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
> > > : > : > : > : I just read the original again:
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [
> > > tree,
> > > : > : > : > : cableEnd]"
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : Mike
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
> > > : > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the
> > > driving
> > > : > : > force
> > > : > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of
> the
> > > force,
> > > : > : > since
> > > : > : > : > it is
> > > : > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the
> block,
> > > : > then to
> > > : > : > : > another
> > > : > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point.
> Then,
> > > and
> > > : > only
> > > : > : > : then
> > > : > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
> > > : > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > : > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> > > : > : > : > : > > Huh???
> > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you
> can
> > > have
> > > : > : > twenty
> > > : > : > : > of
> > > : > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on
> > > itself,
> > > : > the
> > > : > : > : 20
> > > : > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
> > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > Mike
> > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > > : > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > > : > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > : > : > : > : > > > mailto:--------------------
> http://www.----------.com/
> > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered
> > > vehicle
> > > : > : > with
> > > : > : > : > the
> > > : > : > : > : > line
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1
> > > ratio.
> > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
> > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you
> can
> > > lift
> > > : > : > : easily,
> > > : > : > : > but
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the
> > > : > circuit,
> > > : > : > not
> > > : > : > : > just
> > > : > : > : > : > an
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
> > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > Mike
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to
> tail
> > > in
> > > : > '00
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > :
> > > : > : > :
got it right the first guess, then saw some other drawings and lost it
somewhere in there...
My first thought was just an angle changer, but since that made no sense
to actually do I figured the stuck vehicle had to be the ****** block
one.
That is why I put out the two hands and a foot with a piece of string
analogy to see if we were all on the same page.
We obviously weren't.
I thought they were doing some funky 3 point to get something out on a
strange angle under extra power....
Yup, that was a total waste of time to hook to the tree, if he wanted
the added power from a ****** block, he needed to run the cable back to
himself.
He would have done better to have the ****** block vehicle hit it in
reverse, then they would only need 3/4 or half the oomph depending on
angles to pull him out.
Is this video online anywhere?
No wonder this thread is so damn confusing....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
TJim wrote:
>
> Except that the cablestart truck was the one pulling himself out. Instead
> of going through the block to the tree, he could have just as well attached
> his cable to the snatchblock vehicle. The cablestart truck only has one
> cable attached to him (the one from his own winch), so it is a 1:1 pull
> whether he goes directly to the other truck or through 16 ****** blocks to a
> tree behind him. He is still only pulling himself with one winch and one
> cable.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F5F82C3.512A00B@sympatico.ca...
> > Ahhh... Now I understand!
> >
> > The stuck vehicle was the foot in the example I was referring to....
> >
> > See:
> >
> > "The video featured configuration was this:
> >
> > truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
> > cableEnd]"
> >
> > The truck with the cable start was the winch or your right hand, the
> > tree, cable end is your left hand, the snatchblock vehicle is you foot.
> >
> > The only advantage for this would be to pull the stuck vehicle out at a
> > different angle than the tow vehicle could line up to with a pull
> > increase of somewhere between a 2:1 and a 1.4 ratio.
> >
> > Much easier to run the cable to the tree and then to the vehicle which
> > is a 1:1 but even then maybe that tree wasn't in the right place to get
> > the vehicle out safe, so they split the angle difference of the pull.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > Dave Milne wrote:
> > >
> > > nah, the right hand is the stuck vehicle in the example.
> > > I really don't see the benefit of this "technique" ; the tree seems
> > > irrelevant.
> > >
> > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3F5F6C0B.AFDF764B@sympatico.ca...
> > > : Well, 'let' you freaking foot (stuck vehicle) move then. If it don't
> > > : move, that stuck vehicle in the swamp ain't moving either...
> > > : ;-)
> > > :
> > > : Mike
> > > :
> > > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > > : >
> > > : > Unfortunately that's not modelling the situation correctly as the
> foot
> > > : > doesn't move.
> > > : >
> > > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > : >
> > > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > : > news:3F5F3136.3285D069@sympatico.ca...
> > > : > : Umm Dave, look again at my string example.
> > > : > :
> > > : > : If your left hand with the end of the string line is the tree or
> any
> > > : > : other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the string
> around
> > > : > : your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your right
> hand
> > > : > : (the winch), your foot only moves 6".
> > > : > :
> > > : > : Mike
> > > : > :
> > > : > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > > : > : >
> > > : > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
> > > : > : >
> > > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > : > : >
> > > : > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote
> in
> > > : > message
> > > : > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
> > > : > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that
> > > day.
> > > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > > : > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > > : > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley
> round
> > > 90
> > > : > : > : degrees.
> > > : > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
> > > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > : > --
> > > : > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > : > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > : > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
> > > : > : > : > : I just read the original again:
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [
> > > tree,
> > > : > : > : > : cableEnd]"
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : Mike
> > > : > : > : > :
> > > : > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
> > > : > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the
> > > driving
> > > : > : > force
> > > : > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of
> the
> > > force,
> > > : > : > since
> > > : > : > : > it is
> > > : > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the
> block,
> > > : > then to
> > > : > : > : > another
> > > : > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point.
> Then,
> > > and
> > > : > only
> > > : > : > : then
> > > : > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
> > > : > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > : > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> > > : > : > : > : > > Huh???
> > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you
> can
> > > have
> > > : > : > twenty
> > > : > : > : > of
> > > : > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on
> > > itself,
> > > : > the
> > > : > : > : 20
> > > : > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
> > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > Mike
> > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > > : > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > > : > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > : > : > : > : > > > mailto:--------------------
> http://www.----------.com/
> > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered
> > > vehicle
> > > : > : > with
> > > : > : > : > the
> > > : > : > : > : > line
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1
> > > ratio.
> > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
> > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you
> can
> > > lift
> > > : > : > : easily,
> > > : > : > : > but
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the
> > > : > circuit,
> > > : > : > not
> > > : > : > : > just
> > > : > : > : > : > an
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
> > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > Mike
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to
> tail
> > > in
> > > : > '00
> > > : > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > : >
> > > : > : > :
> > > : > : > :
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Here ya go. Topic under debate runs from min 4:17 to 9:26
http://www.ramsey.com/automotive/video.html
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5F9406.2E6D990A@sympatico.ca...
: I for sure missed that part! Actually I didn't, looking back at it, I
: got it right the first guess, then saw some other drawings and lost it
: somewhere in there...
:
: My first thought was just an angle changer, but since that made no sense
: to actually do I figured the stuck vehicle had to be the ****** block
: one.
:
: That is why I put out the two hands and a foot with a piece of string
: analogy to see if we were all on the same page.
:
: We obviously weren't.
:
: I thought they were doing some funky 3 point to get something out on a
: strange angle under extra power....
:
: Yup, that was a total waste of time to hook to the tree, if he wanted
: the added power from a ****** block, he needed to run the cable back to
: himself.
:
: He would have done better to have the ****** block vehicle hit it in
: reverse, then they would only need 3/4 or half the oomph depending on
: angles to pull him out.
:
: Is this video online anywhere?
:
: No wonder this thread is so damn confusing....
:
: Mike
: 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
:
: TJim wrote:
: >
: > Except that the cablestart truck was the one pulling himself out.
Instead
: > of going through the block to the tree, he could have just as well
attached
: > his cable to the snatchblock vehicle. The cablestart truck only has one
: > cable attached to him (the one from his own winch), so it is a 1:1 pull
: > whether he goes directly to the other truck or through 16 ****** blocks
to a
: > tree behind him. He is still only pulling himself with one winch and
one
: > cable.
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5F82C3.512A00B@sympatico.ca...
: > > Ahhh... Now I understand!
: > >
: > > The stuck vehicle was the foot in the example I was referring to....
: > >
: > > See:
: > >
: > > "The video featured configuration was this:
: > >
: > > truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
: > > cableEnd]"
: > >
: > > The truck with the cable start was the winch or your right hand, the
: > > tree, cable end is your left hand, the snatchblock vehicle is you
foot.
: > >
: > > The only advantage for this would be to pull the stuck vehicle out at
a
: > > different angle than the tow vehicle could line up to with a pull
: > > increase of somewhere between a 2:1 and a 1.4 ratio.
: > >
: > > Much easier to run the cable to the tree and then to the vehicle which
: > > is a 1:1 but even then maybe that tree wasn't in the right place to
get
: > > the vehicle out safe, so they split the angle difference of the pull.
: > >
: > > Mike
: > >
: > >
: > > Dave Milne wrote:
: > > >
: > > > nah, the right hand is the stuck vehicle in the example.
: > > > I really don't see the benefit of this "technique" ; the tree seems
: > > > irrelevant.
: > > >
: > > > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > >
: > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > news:3F5F6C0B.AFDF764B@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : Well, 'let' you freaking foot (stuck vehicle) move then. If it
don't
: > > > : move, that stuck vehicle in the swamp ain't moving either...
: > > > : ;-)
: > > > :
: > > > : Mike
: > > > :
: > > > : Dave Milne wrote:
: > > > : >
: > > > : > Unfortunately that's not modelling the situation correctly as
the
: > foot
: > > > : > doesn't move.
: > > > : >
: > > > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : >
: > > > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > : > news:3F5F3136.3285D069@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : Umm Dave, look again at my string example.
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : If your left hand with the end of the string line is the tree
or
: > any
: > > > : > : other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the
string
: > around
: > > > : > : your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your
right
: > hand
: > > > : > : (the winch), your foot only moves 6".
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : Mike
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : Dave Milne wrote:
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net>
wrote
: > in
: > > > : > message
: > > > : > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
: > > > : > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed
that
: > > > day.
: > > > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > > > : > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > > > : > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the
pulley
: > round
: > > > 90
: > > > : > : > : degrees.
: > > > : > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > --
: > > > : > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > : > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : > : > : I just read the original again:
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : --------------
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock
vehicle] -----> [
: > > > tree,
: > > > : > : > : > : cableEnd]"
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : --------------
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : Mike
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on
the
: > > > driving
: > > > : > : > force
: > > > : > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector
of
: > the
: > > > force,
: > > > : > : > since
: > > > : > : > : > it is
: > > > : > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though
the
: > block,
: > > > : > then to
: > > > : > : > : > another
: > > > : > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point.
: > Then,
: > > > and
: > > > : > only
: > > > : > : > : then
: > > > : > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
: > > > : > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in
message
: > > > : > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : > : > : > > Huh???
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer,
you
: > can
: > > > have
: > > > : > : > twenty
: > > > : > : > : > of
: > > > : > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook
back on
: > > > itself,
: > > > : > the
: > > > : > : > : 20
: > > > : > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > Mike
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > mailto:--------------------
: > http://www.----------.com/
: > > > : > : > : > : > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the
recovered
: > > > vehicle
: > > > : > : > with
: > > > : > : > : > the
: > > > : > : > : > : > line
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a
2:1
: > > > ratio.
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more
you
: > can
: > > > lift
: > > > : > : > : easily,
: > > > : > : > : > but
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of
the
: > > > : > circuit,
: > > > : > : > not
: > > > : > : > : > just
: > > > : > : > : > : > an
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Mike
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose
to
: > tail
: > > > in
: > > > : > '00
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > :
http://www.ramsey.com/automotive/video.html
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5F9406.2E6D990A@sympatico.ca...
: I for sure missed that part! Actually I didn't, looking back at it, I
: got it right the first guess, then saw some other drawings and lost it
: somewhere in there...
:
: My first thought was just an angle changer, but since that made no sense
: to actually do I figured the stuck vehicle had to be the ****** block
: one.
:
: That is why I put out the two hands and a foot with a piece of string
: analogy to see if we were all on the same page.
:
: We obviously weren't.
:
: I thought they were doing some funky 3 point to get something out on a
: strange angle under extra power....
:
: Yup, that was a total waste of time to hook to the tree, if he wanted
: the added power from a ****** block, he needed to run the cable back to
: himself.
:
: He would have done better to have the ****** block vehicle hit it in
: reverse, then they would only need 3/4 or half the oomph depending on
: angles to pull him out.
:
: Is this video online anywhere?
:
: No wonder this thread is so damn confusing....
:
: Mike
: 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
:
: TJim wrote:
: >
: > Except that the cablestart truck was the one pulling himself out.
Instead
: > of going through the block to the tree, he could have just as well
attached
: > his cable to the snatchblock vehicle. The cablestart truck only has one
: > cable attached to him (the one from his own winch), so it is a 1:1 pull
: > whether he goes directly to the other truck or through 16 ****** blocks
to a
: > tree behind him. He is still only pulling himself with one winch and
one
: > cable.
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5F82C3.512A00B@sympatico.ca...
: > > Ahhh... Now I understand!
: > >
: > > The stuck vehicle was the foot in the example I was referring to....
: > >
: > > See:
: > >
: > > "The video featured configuration was this:
: > >
: > > truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
: > > cableEnd]"
: > >
: > > The truck with the cable start was the winch or your right hand, the
: > > tree, cable end is your left hand, the snatchblock vehicle is you
foot.
: > >
: > > The only advantage for this would be to pull the stuck vehicle out at
a
: > > different angle than the tow vehicle could line up to with a pull
: > > increase of somewhere between a 2:1 and a 1.4 ratio.
: > >
: > > Much easier to run the cable to the tree and then to the vehicle which
: > > is a 1:1 but even then maybe that tree wasn't in the right place to
get
: > > the vehicle out safe, so they split the angle difference of the pull.
: > >
: > > Mike
: > >
: > >
: > > Dave Milne wrote:
: > > >
: > > > nah, the right hand is the stuck vehicle in the example.
: > > > I really don't see the benefit of this "technique" ; the tree seems
: > > > irrelevant.
: > > >
: > > > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > >
: > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > news:3F5F6C0B.AFDF764B@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : Well, 'let' you freaking foot (stuck vehicle) move then. If it
don't
: > > > : move, that stuck vehicle in the swamp ain't moving either...
: > > > : ;-)
: > > > :
: > > > : Mike
: > > > :
: > > > : Dave Milne wrote:
: > > > : >
: > > > : > Unfortunately that's not modelling the situation correctly as
the
: > foot
: > > > : > doesn't move.
: > > > : >
: > > > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : >
: > > > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > : > news:3F5F3136.3285D069@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : Umm Dave, look again at my string example.
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : If your left hand with the end of the string line is the tree
or
: > any
: > > > : > : other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the
string
: > around
: > > > : > : your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your
right
: > hand
: > > > : > : (the winch), your foot only moves 6".
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : Mike
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : Dave Milne wrote:
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net>
wrote
: > in
: > > > : > message
: > > > : > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
: > > > : > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed
that
: > > > day.
: > > > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > > > : > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > > > : > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the
pulley
: > round
: > > > 90
: > > > : > : > : degrees.
: > > > : > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > --
: > > > : > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > : > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : > : > : I just read the original again:
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : --------------
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock
vehicle] -----> [
: > > > tree,
: > > > : > : > : > : cableEnd]"
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : --------------
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : Mike
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on
the
: > > > driving
: > > > : > : > force
: > > > : > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector
of
: > the
: > > > force,
: > > > : > : > since
: > > > : > : > : > it is
: > > > : > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though
the
: > block,
: > > > : > then to
: > > > : > : > : > another
: > > > : > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point.
: > Then,
: > > > and
: > > > : > only
: > > > : > : > : then
: > > > : > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
: > > > : > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in
message
: > > > : > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : > : > : > > Huh???
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer,
you
: > can
: > > > have
: > > > : > : > twenty
: > > > : > : > : > of
: > > > : > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook
back on
: > > > itself,
: > > > : > the
: > > > : > : > : 20
: > > > : > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > Mike
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > mailto:--------------------
: > http://www.----------.com/
: > > > : > : > : > : > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the
recovered
: > > > vehicle
: > > > : > : > with
: > > > : > : > : > the
: > > > : > : > : > : > line
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a
2:1
: > > > ratio.
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more
you
: > can
: > > > lift
: > > > : > : > : easily,
: > > > : > : > : > but
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of
the
: > > > : > circuit,
: > > > : > : > not
: > > > : > : > : > just
: > > > : > : > : > : > an
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Mike
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose
to
: > tail
: > > > in
: > > > : > '00
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > :
#93
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Here ya go. Topic under debate runs from min 4:17 to 9:26
http://www.ramsey.com/automotive/video.html
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5F9406.2E6D990A@sympatico.ca...
: I for sure missed that part! Actually I didn't, looking back at it, I
: got it right the first guess, then saw some other drawings and lost it
: somewhere in there...
:
: My first thought was just an angle changer, but since that made no sense
: to actually do I figured the stuck vehicle had to be the ****** block
: one.
:
: That is why I put out the two hands and a foot with a piece of string
: analogy to see if we were all on the same page.
:
: We obviously weren't.
:
: I thought they were doing some funky 3 point to get something out on a
: strange angle under extra power....
:
: Yup, that was a total waste of time to hook to the tree, if he wanted
: the added power from a ****** block, he needed to run the cable back to
: himself.
:
: He would have done better to have the ****** block vehicle hit it in
: reverse, then they would only need 3/4 or half the oomph depending on
: angles to pull him out.
:
: Is this video online anywhere?
:
: No wonder this thread is so damn confusing....
:
: Mike
: 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
:
: TJim wrote:
: >
: > Except that the cablestart truck was the one pulling himself out.
Instead
: > of going through the block to the tree, he could have just as well
attached
: > his cable to the snatchblock vehicle. The cablestart truck only has one
: > cable attached to him (the one from his own winch), so it is a 1:1 pull
: > whether he goes directly to the other truck or through 16 ****** blocks
to a
: > tree behind him. He is still only pulling himself with one winch and
one
: > cable.
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5F82C3.512A00B@sympatico.ca...
: > > Ahhh... Now I understand!
: > >
: > > The stuck vehicle was the foot in the example I was referring to....
: > >
: > > See:
: > >
: > > "The video featured configuration was this:
: > >
: > > truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
: > > cableEnd]"
: > >
: > > The truck with the cable start was the winch or your right hand, the
: > > tree, cable end is your left hand, the snatchblock vehicle is you
foot.
: > >
: > > The only advantage for this would be to pull the stuck vehicle out at
a
: > > different angle than the tow vehicle could line up to with a pull
: > > increase of somewhere between a 2:1 and a 1.4 ratio.
: > >
: > > Much easier to run the cable to the tree and then to the vehicle which
: > > is a 1:1 but even then maybe that tree wasn't in the right place to
get
: > > the vehicle out safe, so they split the angle difference of the pull.
: > >
: > > Mike
: > >
: > >
: > > Dave Milne wrote:
: > > >
: > > > nah, the right hand is the stuck vehicle in the example.
: > > > I really don't see the benefit of this "technique" ; the tree seems
: > > > irrelevant.
: > > >
: > > > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > >
: > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > news:3F5F6C0B.AFDF764B@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : Well, 'let' you freaking foot (stuck vehicle) move then. If it
don't
: > > > : move, that stuck vehicle in the swamp ain't moving either...
: > > > : ;-)
: > > > :
: > > > : Mike
: > > > :
: > > > : Dave Milne wrote:
: > > > : >
: > > > : > Unfortunately that's not modelling the situation correctly as
the
: > foot
: > > > : > doesn't move.
: > > > : >
: > > > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : >
: > > > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > : > news:3F5F3136.3285D069@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : Umm Dave, look again at my string example.
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : If your left hand with the end of the string line is the tree
or
: > any
: > > > : > : other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the
string
: > around
: > > > : > : your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your
right
: > hand
: > > > : > : (the winch), your foot only moves 6".
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : Mike
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : Dave Milne wrote:
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net>
wrote
: > in
: > > > : > message
: > > > : > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
: > > > : > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed
that
: > > > day.
: > > > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > > > : > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > > > : > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the
pulley
: > round
: > > > 90
: > > > : > : > : degrees.
: > > > : > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > --
: > > > : > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > : > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : > : > : I just read the original again:
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : --------------
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock
vehicle] -----> [
: > > > tree,
: > > > : > : > : > : cableEnd]"
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : --------------
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : Mike
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on
the
: > > > driving
: > > > : > : > force
: > > > : > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector
of
: > the
: > > > force,
: > > > : > : > since
: > > > : > : > : > it is
: > > > : > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though
the
: > block,
: > > > : > then to
: > > > : > : > : > another
: > > > : > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point.
: > Then,
: > > > and
: > > > : > only
: > > > : > : > : then
: > > > : > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
: > > > : > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in
message
: > > > : > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : > : > : > > Huh???
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer,
you
: > can
: > > > have
: > > > : > : > twenty
: > > > : > : > : > of
: > > > : > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook
back on
: > > > itself,
: > > > : > the
: > > > : > : > : 20
: > > > : > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > Mike
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > mailto:--------------------
: > http://www.----------.com/
: > > > : > : > : > : > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the
recovered
: > > > vehicle
: > > > : > : > with
: > > > : > : > : > the
: > > > : > : > : > : > line
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a
2:1
: > > > ratio.
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more
you
: > can
: > > > lift
: > > > : > : > : easily,
: > > > : > : > : > but
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of
the
: > > > : > circuit,
: > > > : > : > not
: > > > : > : > : > just
: > > > : > : > : > : > an
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Mike
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose
to
: > tail
: > > > in
: > > > : > '00
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > :
http://www.ramsey.com/automotive/video.html
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5F9406.2E6D990A@sympatico.ca...
: I for sure missed that part! Actually I didn't, looking back at it, I
: got it right the first guess, then saw some other drawings and lost it
: somewhere in there...
:
: My first thought was just an angle changer, but since that made no sense
: to actually do I figured the stuck vehicle had to be the ****** block
: one.
:
: That is why I put out the two hands and a foot with a piece of string
: analogy to see if we were all on the same page.
:
: We obviously weren't.
:
: I thought they were doing some funky 3 point to get something out on a
: strange angle under extra power....
:
: Yup, that was a total waste of time to hook to the tree, if he wanted
: the added power from a ****** block, he needed to run the cable back to
: himself.
:
: He would have done better to have the ****** block vehicle hit it in
: reverse, then they would only need 3/4 or half the oomph depending on
: angles to pull him out.
:
: Is this video online anywhere?
:
: No wonder this thread is so damn confusing....
:
: Mike
: 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
:
: TJim wrote:
: >
: > Except that the cablestart truck was the one pulling himself out.
Instead
: > of going through the block to the tree, he could have just as well
attached
: > his cable to the snatchblock vehicle. The cablestart truck only has one
: > cable attached to him (the one from his own winch), so it is a 1:1 pull
: > whether he goes directly to the other truck or through 16 ****** blocks
to a
: > tree behind him. He is still only pulling himself with one winch and
one
: > cable.
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5F82C3.512A00B@sympatico.ca...
: > > Ahhh... Now I understand!
: > >
: > > The stuck vehicle was the foot in the example I was referring to....
: > >
: > > See:
: > >
: > > "The video featured configuration was this:
: > >
: > > truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
: > > cableEnd]"
: > >
: > > The truck with the cable start was the winch or your right hand, the
: > > tree, cable end is your left hand, the snatchblock vehicle is you
foot.
: > >
: > > The only advantage for this would be to pull the stuck vehicle out at
a
: > > different angle than the tow vehicle could line up to with a pull
: > > increase of somewhere between a 2:1 and a 1.4 ratio.
: > >
: > > Much easier to run the cable to the tree and then to the vehicle which
: > > is a 1:1 but even then maybe that tree wasn't in the right place to
get
: > > the vehicle out safe, so they split the angle difference of the pull.
: > >
: > > Mike
: > >
: > >
: > > Dave Milne wrote:
: > > >
: > > > nah, the right hand is the stuck vehicle in the example.
: > > > I really don't see the benefit of this "technique" ; the tree seems
: > > > irrelevant.
: > > >
: > > > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > >
: > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > news:3F5F6C0B.AFDF764B@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : Well, 'let' you freaking foot (stuck vehicle) move then. If it
don't
: > > > : move, that stuck vehicle in the swamp ain't moving either...
: > > > : ;-)
: > > > :
: > > > : Mike
: > > > :
: > > > : Dave Milne wrote:
: > > > : >
: > > > : > Unfortunately that's not modelling the situation correctly as
the
: > foot
: > > > : > doesn't move.
: > > > : >
: > > > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : >
: > > > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > : > news:3F5F3136.3285D069@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : Umm Dave, look again at my string example.
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : If your left hand with the end of the string line is the tree
or
: > any
: > > > : > : other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the
string
: > around
: > > > : > : your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your
right
: > hand
: > > > : > : (the winch), your foot only moves 6".
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : Mike
: > > > : > :
: > > > : > : Dave Milne wrote:
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : > : >
: > > > : > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net>
wrote
: > in
: > > > : > message
: > > > : > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
: > > > : > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed
that
: > > > day.
: > > > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > > > : > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > > > : > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the
pulley
: > round
: > > > 90
: > > > : > : > : degrees.
: > > > : > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > --
: > > > : > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > > > : > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > > > : > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : > : > : I just read the original again:
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : --------------
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock
vehicle] -----> [
: > > > tree,
: > > > : > : > : > : cableEnd]"
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : --------------
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : Mike
: > > > : > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on
the
: > > > driving
: > > > : > : > force
: > > > : > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector
of
: > the
: > > > force,
: > > > : > : > since
: > > > : > : > : > it is
: > > > : > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though
the
: > block,
: > > > : > then to
: > > > : > : > : > another
: > > > : > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point.
: > Then,
: > > > and
: > > > : > only
: > > > : > : > : then
: > > > : > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
: > > > : > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in
message
: > > > : > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: > > > : > : > : > : > > Huh???
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer,
you
: > can
: > > > have
: > > > : > : > twenty
: > > > : > : > : > of
: > > > : > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook
back on
: > > > itself,
: > > > : > the
: > > > : > : > : 20
: > > > : > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > Mike
: > > > : > : > : > : > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > mailto:--------------------
: > http://www.----------.com/
: > > > : > : > : > : > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the
recovered
: > > > vehicle
: > > > : > : > with
: > > > : > : > : > the
: > > > : > : > : > : > line
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a
2:1
: > > > ratio.
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more
you
: > can
: > > > lift
: > > > : > : > : easily,
: > > > : > : > : > but
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of
the
: > > > : > circuit,
: > > > : > : > not
: > > > : > : > : > just
: > > > : > : > : > : > an
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Mike
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose
to
: > tail
: > > > in
: > > > : > '00
: > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > : >
: > > > : > : > :
: > > > : > : > :
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
In article <DEmdnReXivh9gMKiU-KYvA@comcast.com>, "TJim" <jim@ranlet.nospam.com>
writes:
>hat is NOT a 2:1 pull. Not if the two cable sections on the pulled vehicle
>(in this case, the pulling vehicle, too) don't both go in exactly the same
>direction. The pull is the combined vector created by the two individual
>pulls. If the cables go off at 90* from each other, the combined pull is
>the square root of 2, or 1.414:1. If the cables go off in opposite
>directions, or 180*, the combined pull on the vehicle is 0. Yes, the
>individual cables may rip the tow hooks off, but only if a single cable
>would rip the hook off when pulling in the same direction against a vehicle
>that was un-movable. (I probably shouldn't have added that last statement.
>I'm not sure anyone will understand it.)
I stand corrected, but I made my point as well...the pulleys in Joshua's
example which I illustrated are not force multipliers to the degree he
assumed...the range of force mutlipication in that example ranges from 2 to 0,
depending on the angles of the lines from and to the vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
writes:
>hat is NOT a 2:1 pull. Not if the two cable sections on the pulled vehicle
>(in this case, the pulling vehicle, too) don't both go in exactly the same
>direction. The pull is the combined vector created by the two individual
>pulls. If the cables go off at 90* from each other, the combined pull is
>the square root of 2, or 1.414:1. If the cables go off in opposite
>directions, or 180*, the combined pull on the vehicle is 0. Yes, the
>individual cables may rip the tow hooks off, but only if a single cable
>would rip the hook off when pulling in the same direction against a vehicle
>that was un-movable. (I probably shouldn't have added that last statement.
>I'm not sure anyone will understand it.)
I stand corrected, but I made my point as well...the pulleys in Joshua's
example which I illustrated are not force multipliers to the degree he
assumed...the range of force mutlipication in that example ranges from 2 to 0,
depending on the angles of the lines from and to the vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
In article <DEmdnReXivh9gMKiU-KYvA@comcast.com>, "TJim" <jim@ranlet.nospam.com>
writes:
>hat is NOT a 2:1 pull. Not if the two cable sections on the pulled vehicle
>(in this case, the pulling vehicle, too) don't both go in exactly the same
>direction. The pull is the combined vector created by the two individual
>pulls. If the cables go off at 90* from each other, the combined pull is
>the square root of 2, or 1.414:1. If the cables go off in opposite
>directions, or 180*, the combined pull on the vehicle is 0. Yes, the
>individual cables may rip the tow hooks off, but only if a single cable
>would rip the hook off when pulling in the same direction against a vehicle
>that was un-movable. (I probably shouldn't have added that last statement.
>I'm not sure anyone will understand it.)
I stand corrected, but I made my point as well...the pulleys in Joshua's
example which I illustrated are not force multipliers to the degree he
assumed...the range of force mutlipication in that example ranges from 2 to 0,
depending on the angles of the lines from and to the vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
writes:
>hat is NOT a 2:1 pull. Not if the two cable sections on the pulled vehicle
>(in this case, the pulling vehicle, too) don't both go in exactly the same
>direction. The pull is the combined vector created by the two individual
>pulls. If the cables go off at 90* from each other, the combined pull is
>the square root of 2, or 1.414:1. If the cables go off in opposite
>directions, or 180*, the combined pull on the vehicle is 0. Yes, the
>individual cables may rip the tow hooks off, but only if a single cable
>would rip the hook off when pulling in the same direction against a vehicle
>that was un-movable. (I probably shouldn't have added that last statement.
>I'm not sure anyone will understand it.)
I stand corrected, but I made my point as well...the pulleys in Joshua's
example which I illustrated are not force multipliers to the degree he
assumed...the range of force mutlipication in that example ranges from 2 to 0,
depending on the angles of the lines from and to the vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
#96
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:02:34 -0400 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Then you maybe should look into a block and tackle setup. Something
>like a two pulley block for the tree or anchor vehicle and one pulley at
>your front will give something like 6:1 (I think, but am too tired to
>think much), times the power
If there are only two points involved it's easy to figure. The
tension on the cable is multiplied by the total number of cable
strands running back and forth between the two points.
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Then you maybe should look into a block and tackle setup. Something
>like a two pulley block for the tree or anchor vehicle and one pulley at
>your front will give something like 6:1 (I think, but am too tired to
>think much), times the power
If there are only two points involved it's easy to figure. The
tension on the cable is multiplied by the total number of cable
strands running back and forth between the two points.
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:02:34 -0400 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Then you maybe should look into a block and tackle setup. Something
>like a two pulley block for the tree or anchor vehicle and one pulley at
>your front will give something like 6:1 (I think, but am too tired to
>think much), times the power
If there are only two points involved it's easy to figure. The
tension on the cable is multiplied by the total number of cable
strands running back and forth between the two points.
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Then you maybe should look into a block and tackle setup. Something
>like a two pulley block for the tree or anchor vehicle and one pulley at
>your front will give something like 6:1 (I think, but am too tired to
>think much), times the power
If there are only two points involved it's easy to figure. The
tension on the cable is multiplied by the total number of cable
strands running back and forth between the two points.
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
David Harmon wrote:
>
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:02:34 -0400 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >Then you maybe should look into a block and tackle setup. Something
> >like a two pulley block for the tree or anchor vehicle and one pulley at
> >your front will give something like 6:1 (I think, but am too tired to
> >think much), times the power
>
> If there are only two points involved it's easy to figure. The
> tension on the cable is multiplied by the total number of cable
> strands running back and forth between the two points.
Cool, so that would be 4 times with the anchor on the stuck Jeep.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:02:34 -0400 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >Then you maybe should look into a block and tackle setup. Something
> >like a two pulley block for the tree or anchor vehicle and one pulley at
> >your front will give something like 6:1 (I think, but am too tired to
> >think much), times the power
>
> If there are only two points involved it's easy to figure. The
> tension on the cable is multiplied by the total number of cable
> strands running back and forth between the two points.
Cool, so that would be 4 times with the anchor on the stuck Jeep.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
#99
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
David Harmon wrote:
>
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:02:34 -0400 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >Then you maybe should look into a block and tackle setup. Something
> >like a two pulley block for the tree or anchor vehicle and one pulley at
> >your front will give something like 6:1 (I think, but am too tired to
> >think much), times the power
>
> If there are only two points involved it's easy to figure. The
> tension on the cable is multiplied by the total number of cable
> strands running back and forth between the two points.
Cool, so that would be 4 times with the anchor on the stuck Jeep.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:02:34 -0400 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >Then you maybe should look into a block and tackle setup. Something
> >like a two pulley block for the tree or anchor vehicle and one pulley at
> >your front will give something like 6:1 (I think, but am too tired to
> >think much), times the power
>
> If there are only two points involved it's easy to figure. The
> tension on the cable is multiplied by the total number of cable
> strands running back and forth between the two points.
Cool, so that would be 4 times with the anchor on the stuck Jeep.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
#100
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>>This thread is frightening.
>>it would appear that our collective mastery of simple machines only slightly
>>surpasses our artistic ability.
>
>
>
> MAybe next I should ask about the complex differences between the gas
> pedal and the brake pedal. :-)
Don't tell us; you cheaped out again and got the combo single pedal?
>>This thread is frightening.
>>it would appear that our collective mastery of simple machines only slightly
>>surpasses our artistic ability.
>
>
>
> MAybe next I should ask about the complex differences between the gas
> pedal and the brake pedal. :-)
Don't tell us; you cheaped out again and got the combo single pedal?