Re: Superwinch = junk
09-08-2003, 01:25 PM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Just remember you're using twice the force to pull out the tree.
;-)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I was thinking I needed it for the angle pulls actually.
>
> We wheel on narrow trails and there have been a few times where someone
> has gone off the side and I can't get a straight pull on them. If I had
> a ****** block, I could angle off a tree or another Jeep to get the
> right angle to get them out.
>
> Mike
;-)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I was thinking I needed it for the angle pulls actually.
>
> We wheel on narrow trails and there have been a few times where someone
> has gone off the side and I can't get a straight pull on them. If I had
> a ****** block, I could angle off a tree or another Jeep to get the
> right angle to get them out.
>
> Mike
09-08-2003, 03:23 PM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be desired.
Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
|
|
Vehicle
still maintain its 1 for 1.
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5C8423.17C2370F@sympatico.ca...
: You are correct Bill, I just read the original statement again.
:
: The winch went to a ****** block on the stuck vehicle, then to a tree
: which gives at least a 2:1 pull if the tree is beside the winch.
:
: Mike
:
: "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: >
: > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: >
: > Mike Romain wrote:
: > >
: > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
line
: > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > >
: > > Think block and tackle....
: > >
: > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
: > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
an
: > > angle changer.
: > >
: > > Mike
: > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
09-08-2003, 03:23 PM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be desired.
Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
|
|
Vehicle
still maintain its 1 for 1.
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5C8423.17C2370F@sympatico.ca...
: You are correct Bill, I just read the original statement again.
:
: The winch went to a ****** block on the stuck vehicle, then to a tree
: which gives at least a 2:1 pull if the tree is beside the winch.
:
: Mike
:
: "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: >
: > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: >
: > Mike Romain wrote:
: > >
: > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
line
: > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > >
: > > Think block and tackle....
: > >
: > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
: > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
an
: > > angle changer.
: > >
: > > Mike
: > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
09-08-2003, 05:22 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
If you, me and Bill 3 stand in a triangle, and I hold one end of a bit of
string, you grab the middle hold it loosely letting it flow through your
fingers, and we tie the other end to Bill 3, are you suggesting that if I
start reeling in the rope I will start moving at 1/2 speed ?
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5CEEC1.13A535E2@sympatico.ca...
: The tree and the winch are stationary.
:
: Same deal as if you just looped the cable back to the winch.
:
: With the pulley in the middle, it becomes 2:1.
:
: Now if the pulley block was on the tree, then it would be a straight
: angle changer like I thought I read.
:
: Mike
:
: Dave Milne wrote:
: >
: > Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be
desired.
: >
: > Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
: > |
: > |
: > Vehicle
: >
: > still maintain its 1 for 1.
: >
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5C8423.17C2370F@sympatico.ca...
: > : You are correct Bill, I just read the original statement again.
: > :
: > : The winch went to a ****** block on the stuck vehicle, then to a tree
: > : which gives at least a 2:1 pull if the tree is beside the winch.
: > :
: > : Mike
: > :
: > : "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > : >
: > : > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > : > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > : > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > : > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: > : >
: > : > Mike Romain wrote:
: > : > >
: > : > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with
the
: > line
: > : > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > : > >
: > : > > Think block and tackle....
: > : > >
: > : > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily,
but
: > : > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not
just
: > an
: > : > > angle changer.
: > : > >
: > : > > Mike
: > : > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > : > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
string, you grab the middle hold it loosely letting it flow through your
fingers, and we tie the other end to Bill 3, are you suggesting that if I
start reeling in the rope I will start moving at 1/2 speed ?
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5CEEC1.13A535E2@sympatico.ca...
: The tree and the winch are stationary.
:
: Same deal as if you just looped the cable back to the winch.
:
: With the pulley in the middle, it becomes 2:1.
:
: Now if the pulley block was on the tree, then it would be a straight
: angle changer like I thought I read.
:
: Mike
:
: Dave Milne wrote:
: >
: > Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be
desired.
: >
: > Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
: > |
: > |
: > Vehicle
: >
: > still maintain its 1 for 1.
: >
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5C8423.17C2370F@sympatico.ca...
: > : You are correct Bill, I just read the original statement again.
: > :
: > : The winch went to a ****** block on the stuck vehicle, then to a tree
: > : which gives at least a 2:1 pull if the tree is beside the winch.
: > :
: > : Mike
: > :
: > : "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > : >
: > : > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > : > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > : > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > : > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: > : >
: > : > Mike Romain wrote:
: > : > >
: > : > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with
the
: > line
: > : > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > : > >
: > : > > Think block and tackle....
: > : > >
: > : > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily,
but
: > : > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not
just
: > an
: > : > > angle changer.
: > : > >
: > : > > Mike
: > : > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > : > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
09-08-2003, 05:22 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
If you, me and Bill 3 stand in a triangle, and I hold one end of a bit of
string, you grab the middle hold it loosely letting it flow through your
fingers, and we tie the other end to Bill 3, are you suggesting that if I
start reeling in the rope I will start moving at 1/2 speed ?
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5CEEC1.13A535E2@sympatico.ca...
: The tree and the winch are stationary.
:
: Same deal as if you just looped the cable back to the winch.
:
: With the pulley in the middle, it becomes 2:1.
:
: Now if the pulley block was on the tree, then it would be a straight
: angle changer like I thought I read.
:
: Mike
:
: Dave Milne wrote:
: >
: > Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be
desired.
: >
: > Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
: > |
: > |
: > Vehicle
: >
: > still maintain its 1 for 1.
: >
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5C8423.17C2370F@sympatico.ca...
: > : You are correct Bill, I just read the original statement again.
: > :
: > : The winch went to a ****** block on the stuck vehicle, then to a tree
: > : which gives at least a 2:1 pull if the tree is beside the winch.
: > :
: > : Mike
: > :
: > : "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > : >
: > : > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > : > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > : > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > : > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: > : >
: > : > Mike Romain wrote:
: > : > >
: > : > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with
the
: > line
: > : > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > : > >
: > : > > Think block and tackle....
: > : > >
: > : > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily,
but
: > : > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not
just
: > an
: > : > > angle changer.
: > : > >
: > : > > Mike
: > : > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > : > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
string, you grab the middle hold it loosely letting it flow through your
fingers, and we tie the other end to Bill 3, are you suggesting that if I
start reeling in the rope I will start moving at 1/2 speed ?
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5CEEC1.13A535E2@sympatico.ca...
: The tree and the winch are stationary.
:
: Same deal as if you just looped the cable back to the winch.
:
: With the pulley in the middle, it becomes 2:1.
:
: Now if the pulley block was on the tree, then it would be a straight
: angle changer like I thought I read.
:
: Mike
:
: Dave Milne wrote:
: >
: > Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be
desired.
: >
: > Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
: > |
: > |
: > Vehicle
: >
: > still maintain its 1 for 1.
: >
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:3F5C8423.17C2370F@sympatico.ca...
: > : You are correct Bill, I just read the original statement again.
: > :
: > : The winch went to a ****** block on the stuck vehicle, then to a tree
: > : which gives at least a 2:1 pull if the tree is beside the winch.
: > :
: > : Mike
: > :
: > : "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > : >
: > : > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > : > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > : > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > : > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: > : >
: > : > Mike Romain wrote:
: > : > >
: > : > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with
the
: > line
: > : > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > : > >
: > : > > Think block and tackle....
: > : > >
: > : > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily,
but
: > : > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not
just
: > an
: > : > > angle changer.
: > : > >
: > : > > Mike
: > : > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > : > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
09-08-2003, 07:44 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Approximately 9/8/03 14:04, Mike Romain uttered for posterity:
> The tree and the winch are stationary.
>
> Same deal as if you just looped the cable back to the winch.
>
> With the pulley in the middle, it becomes 2:1.
The pulley itself must be free to move along the cable to
get force multiplication. You really don't get multiplication
it is just that the force on the pulley is equal to the total
force on the cable multiplied by the number of segments...but
describing this as force multiplication is easier to grasp.
e.g. the pulley would be attached to the softroad SUV, with
one end of the cable being fixed to a tree [or rock] and the
other being attached to a real jeep. The jeep moves twice
as far as the Bimmer X5 does.
>
> Now if the pulley block was on the tree, then it would be a straight
> angle changer like I thought I read.
Yup, and the force required to move the load is just slightly
higher than the load, since there is no such thing as a lossless
lever system or friction free pulley.
Examples available at places similar to: [or your physics text]
http://www.the-office.com/summerlift/pulleybasics.htm
> The tree and the winch are stationary.
>
> Same deal as if you just looped the cable back to the winch.
>
> With the pulley in the middle, it becomes 2:1.
The pulley itself must be free to move along the cable to
get force multiplication. You really don't get multiplication
it is just that the force on the pulley is equal to the total
force on the cable multiplied by the number of segments...but
describing this as force multiplication is easier to grasp.
e.g. the pulley would be attached to the softroad SUV, with
one end of the cable being fixed to a tree [or rock] and the
other being attached to a real jeep. The jeep moves twice
as far as the Bimmer X5 does.
>
> Now if the pulley block was on the tree, then it would be a straight
> angle changer like I thought I read.
Yup, and the force required to move the load is just slightly
higher than the load, since there is no such thing as a lossless
lever system or friction free pulley.
Examples available at places similar to: [or your physics text]
http://www.the-office.com/summerlift/pulleybasics.htm
09-08-2003, 07:44 PM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Approximately 9/8/03 14:04, Mike Romain uttered for posterity:
> The tree and the winch are stationary.
>
> Same deal as if you just looped the cable back to the winch.
>
> With the pulley in the middle, it becomes 2:1.
The pulley itself must be free to move along the cable to
get force multiplication. You really don't get multiplication
it is just that the force on the pulley is equal to the total
force on the cable multiplied by the number of segments...but
describing this as force multiplication is easier to grasp.
e.g. the pulley would be attached to the softroad SUV, with
one end of the cable being fixed to a tree [or rock] and the
other being attached to a real jeep. The jeep moves twice
as far as the Bimmer X5 does.
>
> Now if the pulley block was on the tree, then it would be a straight
> angle changer like I thought I read.
Yup, and the force required to move the load is just slightly
higher than the load, since there is no such thing as a lossless
lever system or friction free pulley.
Examples available at places similar to: [or your physics text]
http://www.the-office.com/summerlift/pulleybasics.htm
> The tree and the winch are stationary.
>
> Same deal as if you just looped the cable back to the winch.
>
> With the pulley in the middle, it becomes 2:1.
The pulley itself must be free to move along the cable to
get force multiplication. You really don't get multiplication
it is just that the force on the pulley is equal to the total
force on the cable multiplied by the number of segments...but
describing this as force multiplication is easier to grasp.
e.g. the pulley would be attached to the softroad SUV, with
one end of the cable being fixed to a tree [or rock] and the
other being attached to a real jeep. The jeep moves twice
as far as the Bimmer X5 does.
>
> Now if the pulley block was on the tree, then it would be a straight
> angle changer like I thought I read.
Yup, and the force required to move the load is just slightly
higher than the load, since there is no such thing as a lossless
lever system or friction free pulley.
Examples available at places similar to: [or your physics text]
http://www.the-office.com/summerlift/pulleybasics.htm
09-08-2003, 09:02 PM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
In article <pG47b.4469$124.42209322@news-text.cableinet.net>, "Dave Milne"
<jeep@_nospam_milne.info> writes:
>Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be desired.
>
>Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
> |
> |
> Vehicle
>
>still maintain its 1 for 1.
>
Try this
Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
|
|
Winching Vehicle
If it were at a right angle it would probably be approx 1.5:1. If the tree were
next to the winching vehicle it would be 2:1. Your diagram would be 1:1.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
<jeep@_nospam_milne.info> writes:
>Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be desired.
>
>Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
> |
> |
> Vehicle
>
>still maintain its 1 for 1.
>
Try this
Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
|
|
Winching Vehicle
If it were at a right angle it would probably be approx 1.5:1. If the tree were
next to the winching vehicle it would be 2:1. Your diagram would be 1:1.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
09-08-2003, 09:02 PM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
In article <pG47b.4469$124.42209322@news-text.cableinet.net>, "Dave Milne"
<jeep@_nospam_milne.info> writes:
>Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be desired.
>
>Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
> |
> |
> Vehicle
>
>still maintain its 1 for 1.
>
Try this
Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
|
|
Winching Vehicle
If it were at a right angle it would probably be approx 1.5:1. If the tree were
next to the winching vehicle it would be 2:1. Your diagram would be 1:1.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
<jeep@_nospam_milne.info> writes:
>Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be desired.
>
>Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
> |
> |
> Vehicle
>
>still maintain its 1 for 1.
>
Try this
Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
|
|
Winching Vehicle
If it were at a right angle it would probably be approx 1.5:1. If the tree were
next to the winching vehicle it would be 2:1. Your diagram would be 1:1.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
09-08-2003, 09:05 PM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5CEEC1.13A535E2@sympatico.ca...
> The tree and the winch are stationary.
>
> Same deal as if you just looped the cable back to the winch.
>
> With the pulley in the middle, it becomes 2:1.
2/1 is the *best* you can get out of this situation, if
the winching vehicle is next to the tree. The other
case would be the cable stretched in a straight line,
with the stuck vehicle in the middle; zero pull.
Somewhere in there, the pull would be 1/1... feel
good about that!
__
Steve
..