Cal Wheeler

Joshua Nelson wrote:

>>This thread is frightening.
>>it would appear that our collective mastery of simple machines only slightly
>>surpasses our artistic ability.
>
>
>
> MAybe next I should ask about the complex differences between the gas
> pedal and the brake pedal. :-)

Don't tell us; you cheaped out again and got the combo single pedal?

Jerry Bransford

I saw that video, it was pretty sickening. Anyone know what the end-result
was on that? Did he regain use of his hand or lose fingers?

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
To email, remove 'me' from my email address
KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

"Cal Wheeler" <cal@whee.ler> wrote in message
news:bjp3dl$4jg$7@pita.alt.net...
> Dave Milne wrote:
>
> > Winches scare the bajeezus out of me ! I don't want to be the cheese to
the
> > winches cheese-knife :-)
>
> 4 Wheel Drive parts has a video of an off-road tournament in which some
> poor bastard spotter gets his fingers rolled up into the winch.
> Extremely painful to watch.
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >
> > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in
message
> > news:KuJ7b.8149$cQ1.2321319@kent.svc.tds.net...
> > : I see that, I was assuming (I know, a mistake all the time) that it
was a
> > : straight line self recovery, not some strange multivehicle snake pit
of
> > : cables. Sorry.
> > :
> > : (so far, the posts I have seen have done well to prove there are good
many
> > : ways to hurt yourself with a winch... And that is about the only
common
> > : "thread" in the thread.)
> > :
> > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > : news:YZz7b.5931$b43.55126213@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
> > : >
> > : >
> > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : >
> > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in
> > message
> > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
> > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that
day.
> > : > :
> > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round
90
> > : > : degrees.
> > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
> > : > : >
> > : > : > --
> > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : > : >
> > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
> > : > : > : I just read the original again:
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : --------------
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [
tree,
> > : > : > : cableEnd]"
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : --------------
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : Mike
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
> > : > : > : >
> > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the
driving
> > : > force
> > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the
force,
> > : > since
> > : > : > it is
> > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block,
> > then
> > : to
> > : > : > another
> > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then,
and
> > only
> > : > : then
> > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
> > : > : > : >
> > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> > : > : > : > > Huh???
> > : > : > : > >
> > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can
have
> > : > twenty
> > : > : > of
> > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on
itself,
> > : the
> > : > : 20
> > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
> > : > : > : > >
> > : > : > : > > Mike
> > : > : > : > >
> > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > : > : > : > > >
> > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > : > : > : > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > : > : > : > > >
> > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered
vehicle
> > : > with
> > : > : > the
> > : > : > : > line
> > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1
ratio.
> > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
> > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can
lift
> > : > : easily,
> > : > : > but
> > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the
> > circuit,
> > : > not
> > : > : > just
> > : > : > : > an
> > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
> > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > : > : > > > > Mike
> > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail
in
> > : '00
> > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > : > : >
> > : > : >
> > : > :
> > : > :
> > : >
> > : >
> > :
> > :
> >
> >
>

Jerry Bransford

I saw that video, it was pretty sickening. Anyone know what the end-result
was on that? Did he regain use of his hand or lose fingers?

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
To email, remove 'me' from my email address
KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

"Cal Wheeler" <cal@whee.ler> wrote in message
news:bjp3dl$4jg$7@pita.alt.net...
> Dave Milne wrote:
>
> > Winches scare the bajeezus out of me ! I don't want to be the cheese to
the
> > winches cheese-knife :-)
>
> 4 Wheel Drive parts has a video of an off-road tournament in which some
> poor bastard spotter gets his fingers rolled up into the winch.
> Extremely painful to watch.
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >
> > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in
message
> > news:KuJ7b.8149$cQ1.2321319@kent.svc.tds.net...
> > : I see that, I was assuming (I know, a mistake all the time) that it
was a
> > : straight line self recovery, not some strange multivehicle snake pit
of
> > : cables. Sorry.
> > :
> > : (so far, the posts I have seen have done well to prove there are good
many
> > : ways to hurt yourself with a winch... And that is about the only
common
> > : "thread" in the thread.)
> > :
> > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > : news:YZz7b.5931$b43.55126213@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
> > : >
> > : >
> > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : >
> > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in
> > message
> > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
> > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that
day.
> > : > :
> > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round
90
> > : > : degrees.
> > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
> > : > : >
> > : > : > --
> > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : > : >
> > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
> > : > : > : I just read the original again:
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : --------------
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [
tree,
> > : > : > : cableEnd]"
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : --------------
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : Mike
> > : > : > :
> > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
> > : > : > : >
> > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the
driving
> > : > force
> > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the
force,
> > : > since
> > : > : > it is
> > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block,
> > then
> > : to
> > : > : > another
> > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then,
and
> > only
> > : > : then
> > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
> > : > : > : >
> > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> > : > : > : > > Huh???
> > : > : > : > >
> > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can
have
> > : > twenty
> > : > : > of
> > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on
itself,
> > : the
> > : > : 20
> > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
> > : > : > : > >
> > : > : > : > > Mike
> > : > : > : > >
> > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > : > : > : > > >
> > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > : > : > : > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > : > : > : > > >
> > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered
vehicle
> > : > with
> > : > : > the
> > : > : > : > line
> > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1
ratio.
> > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
> > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can
lift
> > : > : easily,
> > : > : > but
> > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the
> > circuit,
> > : > not
> > : > : > just
> > : > : > : > an
> > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
> > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > : > : > > > > Mike
> > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail
in
> > : '00
> > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > : > : >
> > : > : >
> > : > :
> > : > :
> > : >
> > : >
> > :
> > :
> >
> >
>

Dave Milne

I wimped out and fast forwarded over that bit - very nasty. Hope the guy
recovered.


Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara

"Cal Wheeler" <cal@whee.ler> wrote in message
news:bjp3dl$4jg$7@pita.alt.net...
: Dave Milne wrote:
:
: > Winches scare the bajeezus out of me ! I don't want to be the cheese to
the
: > winches cheese-knife :-)
:
: 4 Wheel Drive parts has a video of an off-road tournament in which some
: poor bastard spotter gets his fingers rolled up into the winch.
: Extremely painful to watch.
: >
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in
message
: > news:KuJ7b.8149$cQ1.2321319@kent.svc.tds.net...
: > : I see that, I was assuming (I know, a mistake all the time) that it
was a
: > : straight line self recovery, not some strange multivehicle snake pit
of
: > : cables. Sorry.
: > :
: > : (so far, the posts I have seen have done well to prove there are good
many
: > : ways to hurt yourself with a winch... And that is about the only
common
: > : "thread" in the thread.)
: > :
: > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > : news:YZz7b.5931$b43.55126213@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
: > : >
: > : >
: > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > : >
: > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in
: > message
: > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
: > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that
day.
: > : > :
: > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round
90
: > : > : degrees.
: > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
: > : > : >
: > : > : > --
: > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > : > : >
: > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
: > : > : > : I just read the original again:
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : --------------
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [
tree,
: > : > : > : cableEnd]"
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : --------------
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : Mike
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
: > : > : > : >
: > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the
driving
: > : > force
: > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the
force,
: > : > since
: > : > : > it is
: > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block,
: > then
: > : to
: > : > : > another
: > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then,
and
: > only
: > : > : then
: > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
: > : > : > : >
: > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: > : > : > : > > Huh???
: > : > : > : > >
: > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can
have
: > : > twenty
: > : > : > of
: > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on
itself,
: > : the
: > : > : 20
: > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
: > : > : > : > >
: > : > : > : > > Mike
: > : > : > : > >
: > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > : > : > : > > >
: > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > : > : > : > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: > : > : > : > > >
: > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
: > : > : > : > > > >
: > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered
vehicle
: > : > with
: > : > : > the
: > : > : > : > line
: > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1
ratio.
: > : > : > : > > > >
: > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
: > : > : > : > > > >
: > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can
lift
: > : > : easily,
: > : > : > but
: > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the
: > circuit,
: > : > not
: > : > : > just
: > : > : > : > an
: > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
: > : > : > : > > > >
: > : > : > : > > > > Mike
: > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail
in
: > : '00
: > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
: > : > : >
: > : > : >
: > : > :
: > : > :
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:

Dave Milne

I wimped out and fast forwarded over that bit - very nasty. Hope the guy
recovered.


Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara

"Cal Wheeler" <cal@whee.ler> wrote in message
news:bjp3dl$4jg$7@pita.alt.net...
: Dave Milne wrote:
:
: > Winches scare the bajeezus out of me ! I don't want to be the cheese to
the
: > winches cheese-knife :-)
:
: 4 Wheel Drive parts has a video of an off-road tournament in which some
: poor bastard spotter gets his fingers rolled up into the winch.
: Extremely painful to watch.
: >
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in
message
: > news:KuJ7b.8149$cQ1.2321319@kent.svc.tds.net...
: > : I see that, I was assuming (I know, a mistake all the time) that it
was a
: > : straight line self recovery, not some strange multivehicle snake pit
of
: > : cables. Sorry.
: > :
: > : (so far, the posts I have seen have done well to prove there are good
many
: > : ways to hurt yourself with a winch... And that is about the only
common
: > : "thread" in the thread.)
: > :
: > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > : news:YZz7b.5931$b43.55126213@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
: > : >
: > : >
: > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > : >
: > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in
: > message
: > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
: > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed that
day.
: > : > :
: > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round
90
: > : > : degrees.
: > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
: > : > : >
: > : > : > --
: > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > : > : >
: > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
: > : > : > : I just read the original again:
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : --------------
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [
tree,
: > : > : > : cableEnd]"
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : --------------
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : Mike
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
: > : > : > : >
: > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the
driving
: > : > force
: > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the
force,
: > : > since
: > : > : > it is
: > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block,
: > then
: > : to
: > : > : > another
: > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then,
and
: > only
: > : > : then
: > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
: > : > : > : >
: > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: > : > : > : > > Huh???
: > : > : > : > >
: > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can
have
: > : > twenty
: > : > : > of
: > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on
itself,
: > : the
: > : > : 20
: > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
: > : > : > : > >
: > : > : > : > > Mike
: > : > : > : > >
: > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: > : > : > : > > >
: > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > : > : > : > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: > : > : > : > > >
: > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
: > : > : > : > > > >
: > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered
vehicle
: > : > with
: > : > : > the
: > : > : > : > line
: > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1
ratio.
: > : > : > : > > > >
: > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
: > : > : > : > > > >
: > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can
lift
: > : > : easily,
: > : > : > but
: > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the
: > circuit,
: > : > not
: > : > : > just
: > : > : > : > an
: > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
: > : > : > : > > > >
: > : > : > : > > > > Mike
: > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail
in
: > : '00
: > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
: > : > : >
: > : > : >
: > : > :
: > : > :
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:

TJim

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5F9406.2E6D990A@sympatico.ca...
> I for sure missed that part! Actually I didn't, looking back at it, I
> got it right the first guess, then saw some other drawings and lost it
> somewhere in there...

So did everyone else. :-)

> My first thought was just an angle changer, but since that made no sense
> to actually do I figured the stuck vehicle had to be the ****** block
> one.

I think that's what a lot of other people saw, too. That's what I assumed
before I actually looked at the video and said, "hey, wait a minute..."

> That is why I put out the two hands and a foot with a piece of string
> analogy to see if we were all on the same page.
>
> We obviously weren't.
>
> I thought they were doing some funky 3 point to get something out on a
> strange angle under extra power....
>
> Yup, that was a total waste of time to hook to the tree, if he wanted
> the added power from a ****** block, he needed to run the cable back to
> himself.

Right!

> He would have done better to have the ****** block vehicle hit it in
> reverse, then they would only need 3/4 or half the oomph depending on
> angles to pull him out.

Right!

> Is this video online anywhere?

http://www.ramsey.com/automotive/video.html

> No wonder this thread is so damn confusing....

Yep!

> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> TJim wrote:
> >
> > Except that the cablestart truck was the one pulling himself out.
Instead
> > of going through the block to the tree, he could have just as well
attached
> > his cable to the snatchblock vehicle. The cablestart truck only has one
> > cable attached to him (the one from his own winch), so it is a 1:1 pull
> > whether he goes directly to the other truck or through 16 ****** blocks
to a
> > tree behind him. He is still only pulling himself with one winch and
one
> > cable.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3F5F82C3.512A00B@sympatico.ca...
> > > Ahhh... Now I understand!
> > >
> > > The stuck vehicle was the foot in the example I was referring to....
> > >
> > > See:
> > >
> > > "The video featured configuration was this:
> > >
> > > truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
> > > cableEnd]"
> > >
> > > The truck with the cable start was the winch or your right hand, the
> > > tree, cable end is your left hand, the snatchblock vehicle is you
foot.
> > >
> > > The only advantage for this would be to pull the stuck vehicle out at
a
> > > different angle than the tow vehicle could line up to with a pull
> > > increase of somewhere between a 2:1 and a 1.4 ratio.
> > >
> > > Much easier to run the cable to the tree and then to the vehicle which
> > > is a 1:1 but even then maybe that tree wasn't in the right place to
get
> > > the vehicle out safe, so they split the angle difference of the pull.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave Milne wrote:
> > > >
> > > > nah, the right hand is the stuck vehicle in the example.
> > > > I really don't see the benefit of this "technique" ; the tree seems
> > > > irrelevant.
> > > >
> > > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:3F5F6C0B.AFDF764B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > : Well, 'let' you freaking foot (stuck vehicle) move then. If it
don't
> > > > : move, that stuck vehicle in the swamp ain't moving either...
> > > > : ;-)
> > > > :
> > > > : Mike
> > > > :
> > > > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > > > : >
> > > > : > Unfortunately that's not modelling the situation correctly as
the
> > foot
> > > > : > doesn't move.
> > > > : >
> > > > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > > : >
> > > > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > : > news:3F5F3136.3285D069@sympatico.ca...
> > > > : > : Umm Dave, look again at my string example.
> > > > : > :
> > > > : > : If your left hand with the end of the string line is the tree
or
> > any
> > > > : > : other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the
string
> > around
> > > > : > : your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your
right
> > hand
> > > > : > : (the winch), your foot only moves 6".
> > > > : > :
> > > > : > : Mike
> > > > : > :
> > > > : > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > > > : > : >
> > > > : > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
> > > > : > : >
> > > > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > > : > : >
> > > > : > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net>
wrote
> > in
> > > > : > message
> > > > : > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
> > > > : > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed
that
> > > > day.
> > > > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > > > : > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > > > : > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the
pulley
> > round
> > > > 90
> > > > : > : > : degrees.
> > > > : > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
> > > > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > : > --
> > > > : > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > > : > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > : > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
> > > > : > : > : > : I just read the original again:
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock
vehicle] -----> [
> > > > tree,
> > > > : > : > : > : cableEnd]"
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : Mike
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
> > > > : > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on
the
> > > > driving
> > > > : > : > force
> > > > : > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector
of
> > the
> > > > force,
> > > > : > : > since
> > > > : > : > : > it is
> > > > : > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though
the
> > block,
> > > > : > then to
> > > > : > : > : > another
> > > > : > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point.
> > Then,
> > > > and
> > > > : > only
> > > > : > : > : then
> > > > : > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
> > > > : > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in
message
> > > > : > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> > > > : > : > : > : > > Huh???
> > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer,
you
> > can
> > > > have
> > > > : > : > twenty
> > > > : > : > : > of
> > > > : > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook
back on
> > > > itself,
> > > > : > the
> > > > : > : > : 20
> > > > : > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
> > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > Mike
> > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > mailto:--------------------
> > http://www.----------.com/
> > > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the
recovered
> > > > vehicle
> > > > : > : > with
> > > > : > : > : > the
> > > > : > : > : > : > line
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a
2:1
> > > > ratio.
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more
you
> > can
> > > > lift
> > > > : > : > : easily,
> > > > : > : > : > but
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of
the
> > > > : > circuit,
> > > > : > : > not
> > > > : > : > : > just
> > > > : > : > : > : > an
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Mike
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose
to
> > tail
> > > > in
> > > > : > '00
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > :

TJim

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5F9406.2E6D990A@sympatico.ca...
> I for sure missed that part! Actually I didn't, looking back at it, I
> got it right the first guess, then saw some other drawings and lost it
> somewhere in there...

So did everyone else. :-)

> My first thought was just an angle changer, but since that made no sense
> to actually do I figured the stuck vehicle had to be the ****** block
> one.

I think that's what a lot of other people saw, too. That's what I assumed
before I actually looked at the video and said, "hey, wait a minute..."

> That is why I put out the two hands and a foot with a piece of string
> analogy to see if we were all on the same page.
>
> We obviously weren't.
>
> I thought they were doing some funky 3 point to get something out on a
> strange angle under extra power....
>
> Yup, that was a total waste of time to hook to the tree, if he wanted
> the added power from a ****** block, he needed to run the cable back to
> himself.

Right!

> He would have done better to have the ****** block vehicle hit it in
> reverse, then they would only need 3/4 or half the oomph depending on
> angles to pull him out.

Right!

> Is this video online anywhere?

http://www.ramsey.com/automotive/video.html

> No wonder this thread is so damn confusing....

Yep!

> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> TJim wrote:
> >
> > Except that the cablestart truck was the one pulling himself out.
Instead
> > of going through the block to the tree, he could have just as well
attached
> > his cable to the snatchblock vehicle. The cablestart truck only has one
> > cable attached to him (the one from his own winch), so it is a 1:1 pull
> > whether he goes directly to the other truck or through 16 ****** blocks
to a
> > tree behind him. He is still only pulling himself with one winch and
one
> > cable.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3F5F82C3.512A00B@sympatico.ca...
> > > Ahhh... Now I understand!
> > >
> > > The stuck vehicle was the foot in the example I was referring to....
> > >
> > > See:
> > >
> > > "The video featured configuration was this:
> > >
> > > truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
> > > cableEnd]"
> > >
> > > The truck with the cable start was the winch or your right hand, the
> > > tree, cable end is your left hand, the snatchblock vehicle is you
foot.
> > >
> > > The only advantage for this would be to pull the stuck vehicle out at
a
> > > different angle than the tow vehicle could line up to with a pull
> > > increase of somewhere between a 2:1 and a 1.4 ratio.
> > >
> > > Much easier to run the cable to the tree and then to the vehicle which
> > > is a 1:1 but even then maybe that tree wasn't in the right place to
get
> > > the vehicle out safe, so they split the angle difference of the pull.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave Milne wrote:
> > > >
> > > > nah, the right hand is the stuck vehicle in the example.
> > > > I really don't see the benefit of this "technique" ; the tree seems
> > > > irrelevant.
> > > >
> > > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:3F5F6C0B.AFDF764B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > : Well, 'let' you freaking foot (stuck vehicle) move then. If it
don't
> > > > : move, that stuck vehicle in the swamp ain't moving either...
> > > > : ;-)
> > > > :
> > > > : Mike
> > > > :
> > > > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > > > : >
> > > > : > Unfortunately that's not modelling the situation correctly as
the
> > foot
> > > > : > doesn't move.
> > > > : >
> > > > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > > : >
> > > > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > : > news:3F5F3136.3285D069@sympatico.ca...
> > > > : > : Umm Dave, look again at my string example.
> > > > : > :
> > > > : > : If your left hand with the end of the string line is the tree
or
> > any
> > > > : > : other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the
string
> > around
> > > > : > : your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your
right
> > hand
> > > > : > : (the winch), your foot only moves 6".
> > > > : > :
> > > > : > : Mike
> > > > : > :
> > > > : > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > > > : > : >
> > > > : > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
> > > > : > : >
> > > > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > > : > : >
> > > > : > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net>
wrote
> > in
> > > > : > message
> > > > : > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
> > > > : > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been pissed
that
> > > > day.
> > > > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > > > : > : > : news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > > > : > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the
pulley
> > round
> > > > 90
> > > > : > : > : degrees.
> > > > : > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
> > > > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > : > --
> > > > : > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > > : > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > > > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > : > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
> > > > : > : > : > : I just read the original again:
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock
vehicle] -----> [
> > > > tree,
> > > > : > : > : > : cableEnd]"
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : Mike
> > > > : > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
> > > > : > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on
the
> > > > driving
> > > > : > : > force
> > > > : > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector
of
> > the
> > > > force,
> > > > : > : > since
> > > > : > : > : > it is
> > > > : > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went though
the
> > block,
> > > > : > then to
> > > > : > : > : > another
> > > > : > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point.
> > Then,
> > > > and
> > > > : > only
> > > > : > : > : then
> > > > : > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
> > > > : > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in
message
> > > > : > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> > > > : > : > : > : > > Huh???
> > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle changer,
you
> > can
> > > > have
> > > > : > : > twenty
> > > > : > : > : > of
> > > > : > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook
back on
> > > > itself,
> > > > : > the
> > > > : > : > : 20
> > > > : > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
> > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > Mike
> > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > mailto:--------------------
> > http://www.----------.com/
> > > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the
recovered
> > > > vehicle
> > > > : > : > with
> > > > : > : > : > the
> > > > : > : > : > : > line
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would have a
2:1
> > > > ratio.
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more
you
> > can
> > > > lift
> > > > : > : > : easily,
> > > > : > : > : > but
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of
the
> > > > : > circuit,
> > > > : > : > not
> > > > : > : > : > just
> > > > : > : > : > : > an
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Mike
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose
to
> > tail
> > > > in
> > > > : > '00
> > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > : >
> > > > : > : > :
> > > > : > : > :

TJim

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5FA5E3.1EDCD254@sympatico.ca...
> Thanks, the clip doesn't want to download clean, windoze says it is
> corrupt or damaged.
>
> Now I have it figured anyway, but it was an 'interesting' discussion....

That's true.

> I wasn't the only one who thought the same about that kind of pull being
> so useless, no MFG. would show it, it must be the ****** block vehicle
> stuck...
>
> They are correct 100% about it increasing the pulling power of the winch
> though!
>
> The winch has the most power 'by far' on the first couple rolls of the
> cable, so a long cable gives you a good boost.
>
> You might want to mention that to them, the voice wasn't 'all' wrong,
> just wrong for the wrong reason.

Good point!!! I didn't even think of that point! He still would have been
better off bringing the cable back to the winch truck or having the anchor
truck back up during winching.

> I 'can' see where that strange pull like I was talking about with the
> block on the stuck vehicle could be useful though. We wheel in swamps
> with lots of 'big' granite boulders dropped from the ice age and if the
> trail hooked coming out so a straight pull would put him into the rock
> and you need all the winch could give to get him out which means a long
> line to get to the bottom rolls of the winch for most power and you get
> a multiplier, well that would maybe do it.
>
> I have stalled my Warn HS9000i and smoked the heat shrink off the cable
> battery ends on a short pull. Had to back up a long ways to get enough
> cable out to get him.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> >
> > Here ya go. Topic under debate runs from min 4:17 to 9:26
> >
> > http://www.ramsey.com/automotive/video.html
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3F5F9406.2E6D990A@sympatico.ca...
> > : I for sure missed that part! Actually I didn't, looking back at it, I
> > : got it right the first guess, then saw some other drawings and lost it
> > : somewhere in there...
> > :
> > : My first thought was just an angle changer, but since that made no
sense
> > : to actually do I figured the stuck vehicle had to be the ****** block
> > : one.
> > :
> > : That is why I put out the two hands and a foot with a piece of string
> > : analogy to see if we were all on the same page.
> > :
> > : We obviously weren't.
> > :
> > : I thought they were doing some funky 3 point to get something out on a
> > : strange angle under extra power....
> > :
> > : Yup, that was a total waste of time to hook to the tree, if he wanted
> > : the added power from a ****** block, he needed to run the cable back
to
> > : himself.
> > :
> > : He would have done better to have the ****** block vehicle hit it in
> > : reverse, then they would only need 3/4 or half the oomph depending on
> > : angles to pull him out.
> > :
> > : Is this video online anywhere?
> > :
> > : No wonder this thread is so damn confusing....
> > :
> > : Mike
> > : 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > : 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > :
> > : TJim wrote:
> > : >
> > : > Except that the cablestart truck was the one pulling himself out.
> > Instead
> > : > of going through the block to the tree, he could have just as well
> > attached
> > : > his cable to the snatchblock vehicle. The cablestart truck only has
one
> > : > cable attached to him (the one from his own winch), so it is a 1:1
pull
> > : > whether he goes directly to the other truck or through 16 ******
blocks
> > to a
> > : > tree behind him. He is still only pulling himself with one winch
and
> > one
> > : > cable.
> > : >
> > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : > news:3F5F82C3.512A00B@sympatico.ca...
> > : > > Ahhh... Now I understand!
> > : > >
> > : > > The stuck vehicle was the foot in the example I was referring
to....
> > : > >
> > : > > See:
> > : > >
> > : > > "The video featured configuration was this:
> > : > >
> > : > > truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
> > : > > cableEnd]"
> > : > >
> > : > > The truck with the cable start was the winch or your right hand,
the
> > : > > tree, cable end is your left hand, the snatchblock vehicle is you
> > foot.
> > : > >
> > : > > The only advantage for this would be to pull the stuck vehicle out
at
> > a
> > : > > different angle than the tow vehicle could line up to with a pull
> > : > > increase of somewhere between a 2:1 and a 1.4 ratio.
> > : > >
> > : > > Much easier to run the cable to the tree and then to the vehicle
which
> > : > > is a 1:1 but even then maybe that tree wasn't in the right place
to
> > get
> > : > > the vehicle out safe, so they split the angle difference of the
pull.
> > : > >
> > : > > Mike
> > : > >
> > : > >
> > : > > Dave Milne wrote:
> > : > > >
> > : > > > nah, the right hand is the stuck vehicle in the example.
> > : > > > I really don't see the benefit of this "technique" ; the tree
seems
> > : > > > irrelevant.
> > : > > >
> > : > > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : > > >
> > : > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : > > > news:3F5F6C0B.AFDF764B@sympatico.ca...
> > : > > > : Well, 'let' you freaking foot (stuck vehicle) move then. If
it
> > don't
> > : > > > : move, that stuck vehicle in the swamp ain't moving either...
> > : > > > : ;-)
> > : > > > :
> > : > > > : Mike
> > : > > > :
> > : > > > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > : > > > : >
> > : > > > : > Unfortunately that's not modelling the situation correctly
as
> > the
> > : > foot
> > : > > > : > doesn't move.
> > : > > > : >
> > : > > > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > > > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : > > > : >
> > : > > > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : > > > : > news:3F5F3136.3285D069@sympatico.ca...
> > : > > > : > : Umm Dave, look again at my string example.
> > : > > > : > :
> > : > > > : > : If your left hand with the end of the string line is the
tree
> > or
> > : > any
> > : > > > : > : other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the
> > string
> > : > around
> > : > > > : > : your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your
> > right
> > : > hand
> > : > > > : > : (the winch), your foot only moves 6".
> > : > > > : > :
> > : > > > : > : Mike
> > : > > > : > :
> > : > > > : > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > : > > > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
> > : > > > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > > > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : > > > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net>
> > wrote
> > : > in
> > : > > > : > message
> > : > > > : > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
> > : > > > : > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been
pissed
> > that
> > : > > > day.
> > : > > > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in
message
> > : > > > : > : > :
news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > : > > > : > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the
> > pulley
> > : > round
> > : > > > 90
> > : > > > : > : > : degrees.
> > : > > > : > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
> > : > > > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > : > --
> > : > > > : > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > > > : > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : > > > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in
message
> > : > > > : > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
> > : > > > : > : > : > : I just read the original again:
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock
> > vehicle] -----> [
> > : > > > tree,
> > : > > > : > : > : > : cableEnd]"
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : Mike
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
> > : > > > : > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back
on
> > the
> > : > > > driving
> > : > > > : > : > force
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple
re-vector
> > of
> > : > the
> > : > > > force,
> > : > > > : > : > since
> > : > > > : > : > : > it is
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went
though
> > the
> > : > block,
> > : > > > : > then to
> > : > > > : > : > : > another
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring
point.
> > : > Then,
> > : > > > and
> > : > > > : > only
> > : > > > : > : > : then
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
> > : > > > : > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in
> > message
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > Huh???
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle
changer,
> > you
> > : > can
> > : > > > have
> > : > > > : > : > twenty
> > : > > > : > : > : > of
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook
> > back on
> > : > > > itself,
> > : > > > : > the
> > : > > > : > : > : 20
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > Mike
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > mailto:--------------------
> > : > http://www.----------.com/
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the
> > recovered
> > : > > > vehicle
> > : > > > : > : > with
> > : > > > : > : > : > the
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > line
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would
have a
> > 2:1
> > : > > > ratio.
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and
more
> > you
> > : > can
> > : > > > lift
> > : > > > : > : > : easily,
> > : > > > : > : > : > but
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other
end of
> > the
> > : > > > : > circuit,
> > : > > > : > : > not
> > : > > > : > : > : > just
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > an
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Mike
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass
nose
> > to
> > : > tail
> > : > > > in
> > : > > > : > '00
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > : > > > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > :

TJim

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5FA5E3.1EDCD254@sympatico.ca...
> Thanks, the clip doesn't want to download clean, windoze says it is
> corrupt or damaged.
>
> Now I have it figured anyway, but it was an 'interesting' discussion....

That's true.

> I wasn't the only one who thought the same about that kind of pull being
> so useless, no MFG. would show it, it must be the ****** block vehicle
> stuck...
>
> They are correct 100% about it increasing the pulling power of the winch
> though!
>
> The winch has the most power 'by far' on the first couple rolls of the
> cable, so a long cable gives you a good boost.
>
> You might want to mention that to them, the voice wasn't 'all' wrong,
> just wrong for the wrong reason.

Good point!!! I didn't even think of that point! He still would have been
better off bringing the cable back to the winch truck or having the anchor
truck back up during winching.

> I 'can' see where that strange pull like I was talking about with the
> block on the stuck vehicle could be useful though. We wheel in swamps
> with lots of 'big' granite boulders dropped from the ice age and if the
> trail hooked coming out so a straight pull would put him into the rock
> and you need all the winch could give to get him out which means a long
> line to get to the bottom rolls of the winch for most power and you get
> a multiplier, well that would maybe do it.
>
> I have stalled my Warn HS9000i and smoked the heat shrink off the cable
> battery ends on a short pull. Had to back up a long ways to get enough
> cable out to get him.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> >
> > Here ya go. Topic under debate runs from min 4:17 to 9:26
> >
> > http://www.ramsey.com/automotive/video.html
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3F5F9406.2E6D990A@sympatico.ca...
> > : I for sure missed that part! Actually I didn't, looking back at it, I
> > : got it right the first guess, then saw some other drawings and lost it
> > : somewhere in there...
> > :
> > : My first thought was just an angle changer, but since that made no
sense
> > : to actually do I figured the stuck vehicle had to be the ****** block
> > : one.
> > :
> > : That is why I put out the two hands and a foot with a piece of string
> > : analogy to see if we were all on the same page.
> > :
> > : We obviously weren't.
> > :
> > : I thought they were doing some funky 3 point to get something out on a
> > : strange angle under extra power....
> > :
> > : Yup, that was a total waste of time to hook to the tree, if he wanted
> > : the added power from a ****** block, he needed to run the cable back
to
> > : himself.
> > :
> > : He would have done better to have the ****** block vehicle hit it in
> > : reverse, then they would only need 3/4 or half the oomph depending on
> > : angles to pull him out.
> > :
> > : Is this video online anywhere?
> > :
> > : No wonder this thread is so damn confusing....
> > :
> > : Mike
> > : 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > : 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > :
> > : TJim wrote:
> > : >
> > : > Except that the cablestart truck was the one pulling himself out.
> > Instead
> > : > of going through the block to the tree, he could have just as well
> > attached
> > : > his cable to the snatchblock vehicle. The cablestart truck only has
one
> > : > cable attached to him (the one from his own winch), so it is a 1:1
pull
> > : > whether he goes directly to the other truck or through 16 ******
blocks
> > to a
> > : > tree behind him. He is still only pulling himself with one winch
and
> > one
> > : > cable.
> > : >
> > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : > news:3F5F82C3.512A00B@sympatico.ca...
> > : > > Ahhh... Now I understand!
> > : > >
> > : > > The stuck vehicle was the foot in the example I was referring
to....
> > : > >
> > : > > See:
> > : > >
> > : > > "The video featured configuration was this:
> > : > >
> > : > > truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock vehicle] -----> [ tree,
> > : > > cableEnd]"
> > : > >
> > : > > The truck with the cable start was the winch or your right hand,
the
> > : > > tree, cable end is your left hand, the snatchblock vehicle is you
> > foot.
> > : > >
> > : > > The only advantage for this would be to pull the stuck vehicle out
at
> > a
> > : > > different angle than the tow vehicle could line up to with a pull
> > : > > increase of somewhere between a 2:1 and a 1.4 ratio.
> > : > >
> > : > > Much easier to run the cable to the tree and then to the vehicle
which
> > : > > is a 1:1 but even then maybe that tree wasn't in the right place
to
> > get
> > : > > the vehicle out safe, so they split the angle difference of the
pull.
> > : > >
> > : > > Mike
> > : > >
> > : > >
> > : > > Dave Milne wrote:
> > : > > >
> > : > > > nah, the right hand is the stuck vehicle in the example.
> > : > > > I really don't see the benefit of this "technique" ; the tree
seems
> > : > > > irrelevant.
> > : > > >
> > : > > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : > > >
> > : > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : > > > news:3F5F6C0B.AFDF764B@sympatico.ca...
> > : > > > : Well, 'let' you freaking foot (stuck vehicle) move then. If
it
> > don't
> > : > > > : move, that stuck vehicle in the swamp ain't moving either...
> > : > > > : ;-)
> > : > > > :
> > : > > > : Mike
> > : > > > :
> > : > > > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > : > > > : >
> > : > > > : > Unfortunately that's not modelling the situation correctly
as
> > the
> > : > foot
> > : > > > : > doesn't move.
> > : > > > : >
> > : > > > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > > > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : > > > : >
> > : > > > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : > > > : > news:3F5F3136.3285D069@sympatico.ca...
> > : > > > : > : Umm Dave, look again at my string example.
> > : > > > : > :
> > : > > > : > : If your left hand with the end of the string line is the
tree
> > or
> > : > any
> > : > > > : > : other 'fixed object' like a tree, then when you loop the
> > string
> > : > around
> > : > > > : > : your foot (pulley on stuck vehicle) and pull 1' with your
> > right
> > : > hand
> > : > > > : > : (the winch), your foot only moves 6".
> > : > > > : > :
> > : > > > : > : Mike
> > : > > > : > :
> > : > > > : > : Dave Milne wrote:
> > : > > > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > look at where the cable ends, and don't be so hasty !
> > : > > > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > > > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : > > > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net>
> > wrote
> > : > in
> > : > > > : > message
> > : > > > : > : > news:0Zv7b.7820$cQ1.2245745@kent.svc.tds.net...
> > : > > > : > : > : go back and re-study Eng 101... you must have been
pissed
> > that
> > : > > > day.
> > : > > > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in
message
> > : > > > : > : > :
news:uE47b.4464$D%3.42160414@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > : > > > : > : > : > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the
> > pulley
> > : > round
> > : > > > 90
> > : > > > : > : > : degrees.
> > : > > > : > : > : > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
> > : > > > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > : > --
> > : > > > : > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : > > > : > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > : > > > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in
message
> > : > > > : > : > : > news:3F5C8309.71F0293D@sympatico.ca...
> > : > > > : > : > : > : I just read the original again:
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : "The video featured configuration was this:
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : truck [cableStart] -----> [ snatchblock
> > vehicle] -----> [
> > : > > > tree,
> > : > > > : > : > : > : cableEnd]"
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : --------------
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : That would indeed be a 2:1 configuration.
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : Mike
> > : > > > : > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > : > : "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
> > : > > > : > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back
on
> > the
> > : > > > driving
> > : > > > : > : > force
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > (truck) the ****** block is not a simple
re-vector
> > of
> > : > the
> > : > > > force,
> > : > > > : > : > since
> > : > > > : > : > : > it is
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > going back to the truck. If the cable went
though
> > the
> > : > block,
> > : > > > : > then to
> > : > > > : > : > : > another
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > tree it would be acting as a force vectoring
point.
> > : > Then,
> > : > > > and
> > : > > > : > only
> > : > > > : > : > : then
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > would it be a 1:1 ratio.
> > : > > > : > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in
> > message
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > Huh???
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > The first ****** block is just an angle
changer,
> > you
> > : > can
> > : > > > have
> > : > > > : > : > twenty
> > : > > > : > : > : > of
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook
> > back on
> > : > > > itself,
> > : > > > : > the
> > : > > > : > : > : 20
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > blocks will still be 1:1.
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > Mike
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > mailto:--------------------
> > : > http://www.----------.com/
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > If they had a second ****** block on the
> > recovered
> > : > > > vehicle
> > : > > > : > : > with
> > : > > > : > : > : > the
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > line
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > going back to the tree, then they would
have a
> > 2:1
> > : > > > ratio.
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Think block and tackle....
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and
more
> > you
> > : > can
> > : > > > lift
> > : > > > : > : > : easily,
> > : > > > : > : > : > but
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > you have to have the pulley as an other
end of
> > the
> > : > > > : > circuit,
> > : > > > : > : > not
> > : > > > : > : > : > just
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > an
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > angle changer.
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > >
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > Mike
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass
nose
> > to
> > : > tail
> > : > > > in
> > : > > > : > '00
> > : > > > : > : > : > : > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > : > > > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > : >
> > : > > > : > : > :
> > : > > > : > : > :

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

The driver with the winch remote had a little dyslexic problem, and
reeled in instead of out, to help the copilot pull the cable out. Real
Jeeps use gear shift lever, that's of course on the winch for it's
operator to use, and he only!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Cal Wheeler wrote:
>
> 4 Wheel Drive parts has a video of an off-road tournament in which some
> poor bastard spotter gets his fingers rolled up into the winch.
> Extremely painful to watch.