Mismatched tire brands
11-27-2005, 04:12 PM
#181
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
Stupendous Man proclaimed:
> This legal crap is very regional. In California if you have bad brakes, and
> bald tires, and are talking on a cell-phone when you kill a motorcyclist,
> the worst that will happen is a negligence charge, and a fine..
Or a public service award if the thing is all layed over in your lane
coming head on wrongsided on a winding mountain road with blind
darwinian curves.
> This legal crap is very regional. In California if you have bad brakes, and
> bald tires, and are talking on a cell-phone when you kill a motorcyclist,
> the worst that will happen is a negligence charge, and a fine..
Or a public service award if the thing is all layed over in your lane
coming head on wrongsided on a winding mountain road with blind
darwinian curves.
11-27-2005, 04:35 PM
#182
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
a .45 and they never found the gun...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
<NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
>
> We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
>
> Earle
>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> >
> > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > AAMOF.
> >
> > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> they
> > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> potential
> > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> defective
> > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> mismatched
> > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > >
> > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> legal
> > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > mixed
> > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> law
> > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > well.
> > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> of
> > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > >
> > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> the
> > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> than
> > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> to
> > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> an
> > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> a
> > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> know
> > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> was
> > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> disagree
> > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > weighs
> > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > acceleration
> > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> due
> > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> tires
> > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> front
> > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> CAUSE
> > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > >
> > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> laws
> > > of
> > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > >
> > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> Wagon
> > > in
> > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > didn't
> > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> front
> > > to
> > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> conditions
> > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully,
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader
> > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> brand
> > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > >
> > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> plain
> > > > > wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> the
> > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> ditch on
> > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> acceleration.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > two
> > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> that
> > > > >> tires
> > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > >> vehicle
> > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Later,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> to
> > > > >> > drive
> > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> but if
> > > > >> > you
> > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> handling
> > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> the
> > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> not
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> not
> > > > >> > just
> > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> because
> > > of
> > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> to
> > > > >> > you.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> ill
> > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > different
> > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> run
> > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> hear
> > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > brand
> > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> the
> > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > tire
> > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> damage
> > > > >> >> to
> > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> got
> > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> less
> > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> I
> > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > what?
> > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> 2-wheel
> > > > >> >> drive
> > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> this
> > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > >> >>
> > >
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> drive,
> > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> could
> > > be
> > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> accidents
> > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> in
> > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> So
> > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> long
> > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > they
> > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> know:
> > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> two
> > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Will Honea
>
>
--
Will Honea
and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
a .45 and they never found the gun...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
<NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
>
> We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
>
> Earle
>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> >
> > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > AAMOF.
> >
> > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> they
> > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> potential
> > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> defective
> > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> mismatched
> > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > >
> > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> legal
> > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > mixed
> > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> law
> > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > well.
> > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> of
> > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > >
> > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> the
> > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> than
> > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> to
> > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> an
> > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> a
> > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> know
> > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> was
> > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> disagree
> > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > weighs
> > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > acceleration
> > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> due
> > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> tires
> > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> front
> > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> CAUSE
> > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > >
> > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> laws
> > > of
> > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > >
> > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> Wagon
> > > in
> > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > didn't
> > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> front
> > > to
> > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> conditions
> > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully,
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader
> > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> brand
> > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > >
> > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> plain
> > > > > wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> the
> > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> ditch on
> > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> acceleration.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > two
> > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> that
> > > > >> tires
> > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > >> vehicle
> > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Later,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> to
> > > > >> > drive
> > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> but if
> > > > >> > you
> > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> handling
> > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> the
> > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> not
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> not
> > > > >> > just
> > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> because
> > > of
> > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> to
> > > > >> > you.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> ill
> > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > different
> > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> run
> > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> hear
> > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > brand
> > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> the
> > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > tire
> > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> damage
> > > > >> >> to
> > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> got
> > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> less
> > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> I
> > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > what?
> > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> 2-wheel
> > > > >> >> drive
> > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> this
> > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > >> >>
> > >
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> drive,
> > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> could
> > > be
> > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> accidents
> > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> in
> > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> So
> > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> long
> > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > they
> > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> know:
> > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> two
> > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Will Honea
>
>
--
Will Honea
11-27-2005, 04:35 PM
#183
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
a .45 and they never found the gun...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
<NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
>
> We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
>
> Earle
>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> >
> > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > AAMOF.
> >
> > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> they
> > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> potential
> > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> defective
> > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> mismatched
> > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > >
> > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> legal
> > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > mixed
> > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> law
> > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > well.
> > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> of
> > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > >
> > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> the
> > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> than
> > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> to
> > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> an
> > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> a
> > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> know
> > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> was
> > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> disagree
> > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > weighs
> > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > acceleration
> > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> due
> > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> tires
> > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> front
> > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> CAUSE
> > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > >
> > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> laws
> > > of
> > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > >
> > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> Wagon
> > > in
> > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > didn't
> > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> front
> > > to
> > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> conditions
> > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully,
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader
> > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> brand
> > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > >
> > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> plain
> > > > > wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> the
> > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> ditch on
> > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> acceleration.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > two
> > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> that
> > > > >> tires
> > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > >> vehicle
> > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Later,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> to
> > > > >> > drive
> > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> but if
> > > > >> > you
> > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> handling
> > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> the
> > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> not
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> not
> > > > >> > just
> > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> because
> > > of
> > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> to
> > > > >> > you.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> ill
> > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > different
> > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> run
> > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> hear
> > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > brand
> > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> the
> > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > tire
> > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> damage
> > > > >> >> to
> > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> got
> > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> less
> > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> I
> > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > what?
> > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> 2-wheel
> > > > >> >> drive
> > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> this
> > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > >> >>
> > >
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> drive,
> > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> could
> > > be
> > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> accidents
> > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> in
> > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> So
> > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> long
> > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > they
> > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> know:
> > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> two
> > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Will Honea
>
>
--
Will Honea
and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
a .45 and they never found the gun...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
<NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
>
> We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
>
> Earle
>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> >
> > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > AAMOF.
> >
> > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> they
> > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> potential
> > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> defective
> > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> mismatched
> > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > >
> > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> legal
> > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > mixed
> > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> law
> > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > well.
> > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> of
> > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > >
> > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> the
> > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> than
> > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> to
> > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> an
> > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> a
> > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> know
> > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> was
> > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> disagree
> > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > weighs
> > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > acceleration
> > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> due
> > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> tires
> > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> front
> > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> CAUSE
> > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > >
> > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> laws
> > > of
> > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > >
> > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> Wagon
> > > in
> > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > didn't
> > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> front
> > > to
> > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> conditions
> > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully,
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader
> > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> brand
> > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > >
> > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> plain
> > > > > wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> the
> > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> ditch on
> > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> acceleration.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > two
> > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> that
> > > > >> tires
> > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > >> vehicle
> > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Later,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> to
> > > > >> > drive
> > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> but if
> > > > >> > you
> > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> handling
> > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> the
> > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> not
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> not
> > > > >> > just
> > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> because
> > > of
> > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> to
> > > > >> > you.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> ill
> > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > different
> > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> run
> > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> hear
> > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > brand
> > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> the
> > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > tire
> > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> damage
> > > > >> >> to
> > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> got
> > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> less
> > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> I
> > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > what?
> > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> 2-wheel
> > > > >> >> drive
> > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> this
> > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > >> >>
> > >
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> drive,
> > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> could
> > > be
> > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> accidents
> > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> in
> > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> So
> > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> long
> > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > they
> > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> know:
> > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> two
> > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Will Honea
>
>
--
Will Honea
11-27-2005, 04:35 PM
#184
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
a .45 and they never found the gun...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
<NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
>
> We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
>
> Earle
>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> >
> > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > AAMOF.
> >
> > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> they
> > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> potential
> > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> defective
> > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> mismatched
> > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > >
> > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> legal
> > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > mixed
> > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> law
> > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > well.
> > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> of
> > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > >
> > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> the
> > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> than
> > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> to
> > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> an
> > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> a
> > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> know
> > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> was
> > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> disagree
> > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > weighs
> > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > acceleration
> > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> due
> > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> tires
> > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> front
> > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> CAUSE
> > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > >
> > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> laws
> > > of
> > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > >
> > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> Wagon
> > > in
> > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > didn't
> > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> front
> > > to
> > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> conditions
> > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully,
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader
> > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> brand
> > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > >
> > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> plain
> > > > > wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> the
> > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> ditch on
> > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> acceleration.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > two
> > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> that
> > > > >> tires
> > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > >> vehicle
> > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Later,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> to
> > > > >> > drive
> > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> but if
> > > > >> > you
> > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> handling
> > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> the
> > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> not
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> not
> > > > >> > just
> > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> because
> > > of
> > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> to
> > > > >> > you.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> ill
> > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > different
> > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> run
> > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> hear
> > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > brand
> > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> the
> > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > tire
> > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> damage
> > > > >> >> to
> > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> got
> > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> less
> > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> I
> > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > what?
> > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> 2-wheel
> > > > >> >> drive
> > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> this
> > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > >> >>
> > >
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> drive,
> > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> could
> > > be
> > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> accidents
> > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> in
> > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> So
> > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> long
> > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > they
> > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> know:
> > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> two
> > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Will Honea
>
>
--
Will Honea
and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
a .45 and they never found the gun...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
<NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
>
> We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
>
> Earle
>
> "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> >
> > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > AAMOF.
> >
> > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> they
> > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> potential
> > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> defective
> > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> mismatched
> > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > >
> > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> legal
> > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > mixed
> > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> law
> > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > well.
> > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> of
> > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > >
> > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> the
> > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> than
> > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> to
> > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> an
> > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> a
> > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> know
> > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> was
> > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> disagree
> > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > weighs
> > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > acceleration
> > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> due
> > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> tires
> > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> front
> > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> CAUSE
> > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > >
> > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> laws
> > > of
> > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > >
> > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> Wagon
> > > in
> > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > didn't
> > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> front
> > > to
> > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> conditions
> > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully,
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader
> > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> brand
> > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > >
> > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> plain
> > > > > wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> the
> > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> ditch on
> > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> acceleration.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > two
> > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> that
> > > > >> tires
> > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > >> vehicle
> > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Later,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> to
> > > > >> > drive
> > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> but if
> > > > >> > you
> > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> handling
> > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> the
> > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> not
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> not
> > > > >> > just
> > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> because
> > > of
> > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> to
> > > > >> > you.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> ill
> > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > different
> > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> run
> > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> hear
> > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > brand
> > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> the
> > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > tire
> > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> damage
> > > > >> >> to
> > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> got
> > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> less
> > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> I
> > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > what?
> > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> 2-wheel
> > > > >> >> drive
> > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> this
> > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > >> >>
> > >
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> drive,
> > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> could
> > > be
> > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> accidents
> > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> in
> > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> So
> > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> long
> > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > they
> > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> know:
> > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> two
> > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Will Honea
>
>
--
Will Honea
11-27-2005, 05:01 PM
#185
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
With all the noise in this thread, I missed the two different sizes. That
is not a good idea. I tried the factory spare on my Wrangler once, and the
first stop was a tire shoppe.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-jF6kIlCmN1mw@anon.none.net...
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them
exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my
community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle.
We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or
even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops
or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that
I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet
you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of
twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars,
whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or
less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail
for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years
in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation
trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on
ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a
couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some
of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that
other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout
due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause
and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle
IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to
make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they
ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone
who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can
cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that
vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front
end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The
rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of
the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but
won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but
the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The
tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to
maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going
on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and
goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why
his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05
http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect
vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the
Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to
death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your
vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a
slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if
it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires,
it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years.
I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now,
for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to
happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc
with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I
don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you
to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3
Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They
are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and
the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk
serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on
my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went
and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle.
Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds,
or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds?
Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the
4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars
involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know
better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for
a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes.
Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like
to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately
buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
is not a good idea. I tried the factory spare on my Wrangler once, and the
first stop was a tire shoppe.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-jF6kIlCmN1mw@anon.none.net...
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them
exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my
community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle.
We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or
even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops
or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that
I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet
you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of
twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars,
whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or
less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail
for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years
in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation
trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on
ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a
couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some
of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that
other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout
due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause
and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle
IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to
make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they
ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone
who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can
cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that
vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front
end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The
rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of
the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but
won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but
the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The
tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to
maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going
on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and
goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why
his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05
http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect
vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the
Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to
death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your
vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a
slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if
it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires,
it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years.
I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now,
for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to
happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc
with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I
don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you
to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3
Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They
are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and
the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk
serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on
my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went
and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle.
Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds,
or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds?
Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the
4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars
involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know
better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for
a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes.
Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like
to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately
buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
11-27-2005, 05:01 PM
#186
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
With all the noise in this thread, I missed the two different sizes. That
is not a good idea. I tried the factory spare on my Wrangler once, and the
first stop was a tire shoppe.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-jF6kIlCmN1mw@anon.none.net...
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them
exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my
community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle.
We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or
even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops
or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that
I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet
you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of
twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars,
whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or
less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail
for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years
in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation
trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on
ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a
couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some
of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that
other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout
due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause
and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle
IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to
make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they
ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone
who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can
cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that
vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front
end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The
rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of
the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but
won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but
the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The
tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to
maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going
on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and
goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why
his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05
http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect
vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the
Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to
death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your
vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a
slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if
it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires,
it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years.
I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now,
for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to
happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc
with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I
don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you
to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3
Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They
are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and
the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk
serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on
my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went
and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle.
Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds,
or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds?
Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the
4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars
involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know
better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for
a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes.
Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like
to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately
buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
is not a good idea. I tried the factory spare on my Wrangler once, and the
first stop was a tire shoppe.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-jF6kIlCmN1mw@anon.none.net...
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them
exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my
community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle.
We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or
even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops
or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that
I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet
you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of
twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars,
whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or
less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail
for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years
in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation
trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on
ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a
couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some
of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that
other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout
due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause
and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle
IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to
make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they
ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone
who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can
cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that
vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front
end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The
rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of
the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but
won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but
the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The
tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to
maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going
on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and
goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why
his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05
http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect
vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the
Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to
death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your
vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a
slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if
it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires,
it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years.
I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now,
for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to
happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc
with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I
don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you
to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3
Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They
are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and
the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk
serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on
my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went
and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle.
Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds,
or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds?
Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the
4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars
involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know
better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for
a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes.
Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like
to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately
buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
11-27-2005, 05:01 PM
#187
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
With all the noise in this thread, I missed the two different sizes. That
is not a good idea. I tried the factory spare on my Wrangler once, and the
first stop was a tire shoppe.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-jF6kIlCmN1mw@anon.none.net...
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them
exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my
community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle.
We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or
even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops
or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that
I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet
you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of
twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars,
whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or
less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail
for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years
in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation
trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on
ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a
couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some
of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that
other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout
due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause
and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle
IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to
make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they
ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone
who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can
cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that
vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front
end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The
rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of
the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but
won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but
the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The
tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to
maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going
on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and
goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why
his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05
http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect
vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the
Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to
death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your
vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a
slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if
it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires,
it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years.
I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now,
for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to
happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc
with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I
don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you
to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3
Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They
are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and
the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk
serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on
my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went
and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle.
Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds,
or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds?
Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the
4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars
involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know
better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for
a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes.
Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like
to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately
buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
is not a good idea. I tried the factory spare on my Wrangler once, and the
first stop was a tire shoppe.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-jF6kIlCmN1mw@anon.none.net...
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them
exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my
community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle.
We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or
even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops
or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that
I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet
you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of
twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars,
whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or
less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail
for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years
in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation
trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on
ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a
couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some
of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that
other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout
due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause
and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle
IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to
make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they
ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone
who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can
cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that
vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front
end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The
rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of
the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but
won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but
the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The
tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to
maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going
on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and
goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why
his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05
http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect
vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the
Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to
death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your
vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a
slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if
it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires,
it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years.
I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now,
for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to
happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc
with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I
don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you
to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3
Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They
are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and
the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk
serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on
my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went
and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle.
Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds,
or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds?
Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the
4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars
involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know
better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for
a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes.
Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like
to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately
buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
11-27-2005, 05:41 PM
#188
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
That tire size difference was imported from another newsgroup because
'that' gent was fishtailing all over the road in either 2x4 or 4x4...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
> --
> Will Honea
'that' gent was fishtailing all over the road in either 2x4 or 4x4...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
> --
> Will Honea
11-27-2005, 05:41 PM
#189
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
That tire size difference was imported from another newsgroup because
'that' gent was fishtailing all over the road in either 2x4 or 4x4...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
> --
> Will Honea
'that' gent was fishtailing all over the road in either 2x4 or 4x4...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
> --
> Will Honea
11-27-2005, 05:41 PM
#190
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
That tire size difference was imported from another newsgroup because
'that' gent was fishtailing all over the road in either 2x4 or 4x4...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
> --
> Will Honea
'that' gent was fishtailing all over the road in either 2x4 or 4x4...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Amid all the noise, that was what the OP came back with: 3 x 235/15
> and 1 215/15. Unless he has a really strange Jeep, that's going to
> put a mismatch on one axle or the other <g>. He also noted that the
> mismatch was on the rear. I can handle the mismatch on the front -
> for a short time - but putting it on the rear gets dicey. Add
> icy/slick roads and it makes for some challenging dynamics.
>
> As for the Western Slope law situation, it sounds like Ouray is
> exporting expretise again. I feel right at home reading about the
> shennanigans over there. My dinky little town in West Texas had the
> same sort of problems some years back. Only difference was that the
> local folks cheered the prosecuter's decision. Seems the perp went
> and committed suicide a couple of days after he was released. Must
> have been a real contortionist, tho - shot himself behind the ear with
> a .45 and they never found the gun...
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:30:30 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
> > what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
> > who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
> > article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
> > same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
> >
> > We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
> > were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
> > two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
> > accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
> > don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> > > True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> > > would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> > > mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> > > nominal) is probably a valid argument.
> > >
> > > As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> > > witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> > > spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> > > AAMOF.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> > > <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > > > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > > > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
> > they
> > > > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
> > potential
> > > > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
> > defective
> > > > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > > > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
> > mismatched
> > > > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > > > >
> > > > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
> > legal
> > > > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > > > mixed
> > > > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
> > law
> > > > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > > > well.
> > > > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
> > of
> > > > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
> > the
> > > > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
> > than
> > > > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
> > to
> > > > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
> > an
> > > > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
> > a
> > > > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
> > know
> > > > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
> > was
> > > > > killed or maimed on one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
> > disagree
> > > > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > > > weighs
> > > > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > > > acceleration
> > > > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
> > due
> > > > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
> > tires
> > > > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
> > front
> > > > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
> > CAUSE
> > > > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
> > laws
> > > > of
> > > > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
> > Wagon
> > > > in
> > > > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > > > didn't
> > > > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
> > front
> > > > to
> > > > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
> > conditions
> > > > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Spdloader
> > > > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
> > brand
> > > > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
> > plain
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
> > the
> > > > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
> > ditch on
> > > > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
> > acceleration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > > > two
> > > > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
> > that
> > > > > >> tires
> > > > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > > > >> vehicle
> > > > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Later,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Spdloader
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
> > to
> > > > > >> > drive
> > > > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
> > but if
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
> > handling
> > > > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
> > the
> > > > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
> > not
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > big a deal.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
> > not
> > > > > >> > just
> > > > > >> > making this up.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
> > to
> > > > > >> > you.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
> > ill
> > > > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > > > different
> > > > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
> > run
> > > > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
> > hear
> > > > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Spdloader
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > > > brand
> > > > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
> > the
> > > > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > > > tire
> > > > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
> > damage
> > > > > >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
> > got
> > > > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
> > less
> > > > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
> > I
> > > > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > > > what?
> > > > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
> > 2-wheel
> > > > > >> >> drive
> > > > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
> > this
> > > > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
> > drive,
> > > > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
> > accidents
> > > > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
> > in
> > > > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
> > So
> > > > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
> > long
> > > > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > > > they
> > > > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
> > know:
> > > > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
> > two
> > > > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will Honea
> >
> >
>
> --
> Will Honea