Spdloader

I will say this again Lon,

I said "WILDLY Different tires".

I said I was pointing out the differences between the US and Canada when I
mentioned the 3/32 tread depth. I WAS NOT saying I support it.

Yes I have pulled people out of ditches with thin tire tread, but the tread
didn't CAUSE the accident, driving too fast for conditions DID. Conditions
being : speed, curve, low pressure tires, wet roadway, not enough tread on
tires, driver inexperience etc.

My point was, I do have a lot of experience with this, but in no way am I
proclaiming to be an expert. Just relating real world experience. A lot of
it.

By the way:

I hear, that if you mix and match a Bridgestone, with a Cooper, and a
Michelin with a Goodyear, and drive the car backwards, you'll hear Molly
Hatchet playing "Flirtin' With Disaster".

I sure as heck wouldn't want to do that.

Spdloader




"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:McWdncM1Zq4vbBXenZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Spdloader proclaimed:
>
>> I forgot to add,
>>
>> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in two
>> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is that
>> tires have at least 3/32 of tread.
>
> I do sincerely hope you are not proposing that the typically governmental
> asinine legal standards used for determinine a worn out tire are at all
> applicable to how dangerous the handling can be on mismatched tires. Or
> whether mismatched tires on the same axle would potentially void a
> warranty due to owner abuse and failure to pay attention.
>
>>
>> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
>> vehicle code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
>
> Again, so what is your point? Ever pull a vehicle out of the ditch
> because some doofus thought thoas standards were good enough and was
> running around with mismatched tires and discovered why serious drivers
> refuse to consider the concept?
>
>
>
>>
>> Later,
>>
>> Spdloader
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
>>
>>>Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death to
>>>drive after reading some of these replies.
>>>
>>>It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle, but if you
>>>can't, match them per axle.
>>>
>>>NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
>>>different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd handling
>>>characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on the
>>>front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's not
>>>that big a deal.
>>>
>>>I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm not just
>>>making this up.
>>>
>>>Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets, because of
>>>the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
>>>everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen to you.
>>>
>>>Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no ill
>>>effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with different
>>>size tires from front to rear.
>>>
>>>I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't run
>>>oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to hear
>>>something other than "doomsday" advice.
>>>
>>>Spdloader
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>><ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.google groups.com...
>>>
>>>>Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone brand
>>>>tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are the
>>>>same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the tire
>>>>dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious damage to
>>>>the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
>>>>vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and got
>>>>the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little less
>>>>afraid of liability.
>>>>
>>>>So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should I
>>>>never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or what?
>>>>Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive 2-wheel drive
>>>>on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would this
>>>>adversely affect the ABS in any way?
>>>>
>>>>There was one similar thread on this subject before.
>>>>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
>>>>Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel drive,
>>>>and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I could be
>>>>all wrong.
>>>>
>>>>The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding accidents
>>>>caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved in
>>>>accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better. So
>>>>this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a long
>>>>time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or they
>>>>just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to know:
>>>>What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy two
>>>>new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Tomes

- tires same size. Duals not touching and nothing stuck between them.
- tires same type (not mixed radial and bias). Front tires for buses cannot
be recapped, retreaded, or regrooved.

Important to note that this is not from a law, but from the California
"Commercial Driver License Handbook", and appears to be taken a bit out of
context, lol.
This link starts with the following section and then discusses each part
of the Commercial vehicle:
"Commercial Driver License Handbook

Section 10: Pre-Trip Test

A pre-trip inspection should be done the same way each time so you will
learn all the steps and be less likely to forget something.

Before the pre-trip test, the examiner will check the brake lights,
emergency flashers, turn signals, horn, and splash guards (if required). If
any of these items do not work, the test will be postponed.

During the pre-trip test, you must show that the vehicle is safe to drive.
You may have to walk around the vehicle and point to or touch each item and
explain to the examiner what you are checking and why. You will NOT have to
crawl under the hood or under the vehicle.

You may only use one of the guides shown on pages 125 or 126 when taking
your pre-trip test. The memory aid cannot include instructions on how to
perform the pre-trip inspection. If you do not pass the pre-trip inspection
test, the other tests will be cancelled.

Remember: You are allowed a total of three attempts to pass the pre-trip,
skills, or driving tests. See page 5. (Here for more information)

All Vehicles

Study the following vehicle parts for the type of vehicle you will be using
during the CDL skills tests. You should be able to identify each part and
tell the examiner what you are looking for or inspecting.

Vehicle Overview

As you approach the vehicle, notice its general condition. Look for damage
or if the vehicle is leaning to one side. Look under the vehicle for fresh
oil, coolant, grease, or fuel leaks. Check area around the vehicle for
hazards to vehicle movement such as people, other vehicles, objects, low
hanging wires, or limbs, etc.

Check the parking brakes are set and/or wheels chocked. You may have to
raise the hood, tilt the cab (secure loose objects so they don't fall and
break something), or open the engine compartment door. Check the following:
"

-- Then it goes on to discuss each component of the commercial
vehicle.......

Here is the complete section on the tires, fyi:

"Tires

a.. The following items must be inspected on every tire:
- tread depth: Check for minimum tread depth (4/32 inch on steering axle
tires, 2/32 inch on all other tires).
- tire condition: Check that tread is evenly worn and look for cuts or
other damage to tread or sidewalls. Also, make sure that valve caps and
stems are not missing, broken, or damaged.
- tire inflation: Check for proper inflation by using a tire gauge, or
inflation by striking tires with a mallet or other similar device.
- tires same size. Duals not touching and nothing stuck between them.
- tires same type (not mixed radial and bias). Front tires for buses
cannot be recapped, retreaded, or regrooved.
NOTE: You will not get credit if you simply kick the tires to check for
proper inflation."
Tomes









"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4388DDDF.F9515947@***.net...
> Kalifornia, "-tires same size. -tires same type"
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/cdl_htm/sec10_a.htm
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Spdloader wrote:
> >
> > (Sorry this is so long)
> >
> > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the legal
> > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
mixed
> > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in law
> > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
well.
> > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple of
> > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> >
> > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of the
> > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other than
> > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due to
> > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN an
> > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make a
> > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
know
> > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who was
> > killed or maimed on one.
> >
> > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but disagree
> > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
weighs
> > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
acceleration
> > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
due
> > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
tires
> > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
front
> > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
CAUSE
> > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> >
> > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
laws of
> > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> >
> > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac Wagon
in
> > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
didn't
> > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
front to
> > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
conditions
> > and driver ability all playing a part.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Spdloader
> > C. Tracy Bryson

Tomes

- tires same size. Duals not touching and nothing stuck between them.
- tires same type (not mixed radial and bias). Front tires for buses cannot
be recapped, retreaded, or regrooved.

Important to note that this is not from a law, but from the California
"Commercial Driver License Handbook", and appears to be taken a bit out of
context, lol.
This link starts with the following section and then discusses each part
of the Commercial vehicle:
"Commercial Driver License Handbook

Section 10: Pre-Trip Test

A pre-trip inspection should be done the same way each time so you will
learn all the steps and be less likely to forget something.

Before the pre-trip test, the examiner will check the brake lights,
emergency flashers, turn signals, horn, and splash guards (if required). If
any of these items do not work, the test will be postponed.

During the pre-trip test, you must show that the vehicle is safe to drive.
You may have to walk around the vehicle and point to or touch each item and
explain to the examiner what you are checking and why. You will NOT have to
crawl under the hood or under the vehicle.

You may only use one of the guides shown on pages 125 or 126 when taking
your pre-trip test. The memory aid cannot include instructions on how to
perform the pre-trip inspection. If you do not pass the pre-trip inspection
test, the other tests will be cancelled.

Remember: You are allowed a total of three attempts to pass the pre-trip,
skills, or driving tests. See page 5. (Here for more information)

All Vehicles

Study the following vehicle parts for the type of vehicle you will be using
during the CDL skills tests. You should be able to identify each part and
tell the examiner what you are looking for or inspecting.

Vehicle Overview

As you approach the vehicle, notice its general condition. Look for damage
or if the vehicle is leaning to one side. Look under the vehicle for fresh
oil, coolant, grease, or fuel leaks. Check area around the vehicle for
hazards to vehicle movement such as people, other vehicles, objects, low
hanging wires, or limbs, etc.

Check the parking brakes are set and/or wheels chocked. You may have to
raise the hood, tilt the cab (secure loose objects so they don't fall and
break something), or open the engine compartment door. Check the following:
"

-- Then it goes on to discuss each component of the commercial
vehicle.......

Here is the complete section on the tires, fyi:

"Tires

a.. The following items must be inspected on every tire:
- tread depth: Check for minimum tread depth (4/32 inch on steering axle
tires, 2/32 inch on all other tires).
- tire condition: Check that tread is evenly worn and look for cuts or
other damage to tread or sidewalls. Also, make sure that valve caps and
stems are not missing, broken, or damaged.
- tire inflation: Check for proper inflation by using a tire gauge, or
inflation by striking tires with a mallet or other similar device.
- tires same size. Duals not touching and nothing stuck between them.
- tires same type (not mixed radial and bias). Front tires for buses
cannot be recapped, retreaded, or regrooved.
NOTE: You will not get credit if you simply kick the tires to check for
proper inflation."
Tomes









"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4388DDDF.F9515947@***.net...
> Kalifornia, "-tires same size. -tires same type"
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/cdl_htm/sec10_a.htm
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Spdloader wrote:
> >
> > (Sorry this is so long)
> >
> > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the legal
> > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
mixed
> > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in law
> > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
well.
> > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple of
> > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> >
> > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of the
> > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other than
> > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due to
> > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN an
> > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make a
> > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
know
> > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who was
> > killed or maimed on one.
> >
> > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but disagree
> > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
weighs
> > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
acceleration
> > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
due
> > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
tires
> > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
front
> > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
CAUSE
> > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> >
> > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
laws of
> > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> >
> > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac Wagon
in
> > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
didn't
> > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
front to
> > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
conditions
> > and driver ability all playing a part.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Spdloader
> > C. Tracy Bryson

Tomes

- tires same size. Duals not touching and nothing stuck between them.
- tires same type (not mixed radial and bias). Front tires for buses cannot
be recapped, retreaded, or regrooved.

Important to note that this is not from a law, but from the California
"Commercial Driver License Handbook", and appears to be taken a bit out of
context, lol.
This link starts with the following section and then discusses each part
of the Commercial vehicle:
"Commercial Driver License Handbook

Section 10: Pre-Trip Test

A pre-trip inspection should be done the same way each time so you will
learn all the steps and be less likely to forget something.

Before the pre-trip test, the examiner will check the brake lights,
emergency flashers, turn signals, horn, and splash guards (if required). If
any of these items do not work, the test will be postponed.

During the pre-trip test, you must show that the vehicle is safe to drive.
You may have to walk around the vehicle and point to or touch each item and
explain to the examiner what you are checking and why. You will NOT have to
crawl under the hood or under the vehicle.

You may only use one of the guides shown on pages 125 or 126 when taking
your pre-trip test. The memory aid cannot include instructions on how to
perform the pre-trip inspection. If you do not pass the pre-trip inspection
test, the other tests will be cancelled.

Remember: You are allowed a total of three attempts to pass the pre-trip,
skills, or driving tests. See page 5. (Here for more information)

All Vehicles

Study the following vehicle parts for the type of vehicle you will be using
during the CDL skills tests. You should be able to identify each part and
tell the examiner what you are looking for or inspecting.

Vehicle Overview

As you approach the vehicle, notice its general condition. Look for damage
or if the vehicle is leaning to one side. Look under the vehicle for fresh
oil, coolant, grease, or fuel leaks. Check area around the vehicle for
hazards to vehicle movement such as people, other vehicles, objects, low
hanging wires, or limbs, etc.

Check the parking brakes are set and/or wheels chocked. You may have to
raise the hood, tilt the cab (secure loose objects so they don't fall and
break something), or open the engine compartment door. Check the following:
"

-- Then it goes on to discuss each component of the commercial
vehicle.......

Here is the complete section on the tires, fyi:

"Tires

a.. The following items must be inspected on every tire:
- tread depth: Check for minimum tread depth (4/32 inch on steering axle
tires, 2/32 inch on all other tires).
- tire condition: Check that tread is evenly worn and look for cuts or
other damage to tread or sidewalls. Also, make sure that valve caps and
stems are not missing, broken, or damaged.
- tire inflation: Check for proper inflation by using a tire gauge, or
inflation by striking tires with a mallet or other similar device.
- tires same size. Duals not touching and nothing stuck between them.
- tires same type (not mixed radial and bias). Front tires for buses
cannot be recapped, retreaded, or regrooved.
NOTE: You will not get credit if you simply kick the tires to check for
proper inflation."
Tomes









"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4388DDDF.F9515947@***.net...
> Kalifornia, "-tires same size. -tires same type"
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/cdl_htm/sec10_a.htm
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Spdloader wrote:
> >
> > (Sorry this is so long)
> >
> > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the legal
> > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
mixed
> > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in law
> > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
well.
> > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple of
> > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> >
> > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of the
> > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other than
> > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due to
> > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN an
> > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make a
> > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
know
> > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who was
> > killed or maimed on one.
> >
> > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but disagree
> > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
weighs
> > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
acceleration
> > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
due
> > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
tires
> > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
front
> > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
CAUSE
> > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> >
> > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
laws of
> > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> >
> > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac Wagon
in
> > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
didn't
> > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
front to
> > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
conditions
> > and driver ability all playing a part.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Spdloader
> > C. Tracy Bryson

Cherokee-Ltd

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:438741F7.8C44A00D@sympatico.ca...
> It is a serious problem and up here in Canada anyway, the police will
> bust you for driving an unsafe vehicle if they spot the mismatched
> brands of tire.
>


With all due respect Mike, back up your claim.
If it's law, it will be documented and easy for you to find.

As I understand it, tires must be;
-same type (size, load range, inflation, speed rating) on same axle.
-minimum tread depth of 3/32"
-all bias ply OR all radial ply.

-Brian

Cherokee-Ltd

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:438741F7.8C44A00D@sympatico.ca...
> It is a serious problem and up here in Canada anyway, the police will
> bust you for driving an unsafe vehicle if they spot the mismatched
> brands of tire.
>


With all due respect Mike, back up your claim.
If it's law, it will be documented and easy for you to find.

As I understand it, tires must be;
-same type (size, load range, inflation, speed rating) on same axle.
-minimum tread depth of 3/32"
-all bias ply OR all radial ply.

-Brian

Cherokee-Ltd

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:438741F7.8C44A00D@sympatico.ca...
> It is a serious problem and up here in Canada anyway, the police will
> bust you for driving an unsafe vehicle if they spot the mismatched
> brands of tire.
>


With all due respect Mike, back up your claim.
If it's law, it will be documented and easy for you to find.

As I understand it, tires must be;
-same type (size, load range, inflation, speed rating) on same axle.
-minimum tread depth of 3/32"
-all bias ply OR all radial ply.

-Brian

Will Honea

True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
nominal) is probably a valid argument.

As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
AAMOF.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
<NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:

> It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether they
> matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a potential
> jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent defective
> equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for mismatched
> tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
>
> Earle
>
> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > (Sorry this is so long)
> >
> > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the legal
> > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> mixed
> > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in law
> > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> well.
> > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple of
> > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> >
> > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of the
> > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other than
> > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due to
> > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN an
> > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make a
> > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS know
> > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who was
> > killed or maimed on one.
> >
> > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but disagree
> > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> weighs
> > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> acceleration
> > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end due
> > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear tires
> > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the front
> > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't CAUSE
> > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> >
> > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the laws
> of
> > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> >
> > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac Wagon
> in
> > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> didn't
> > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on front
> to
> > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road conditions
> > and driver ability all playing a part.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Spdloader
> > C. Tracy Bryson
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old brand
> > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > >
> > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just plain
> > > wrong.
> > >
> > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of the
> > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the ditch on
> > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > >
> > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > >
> > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any acceleration.
> > >
> > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > Spdloader wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I forgot to add,
> > >>
> > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> two
> > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is that
> > >> tires
> > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > >>
> > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > >> vehicle
> > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > >>
> > >> Later,
> > >>
> > >> Spdloader
> > >>
> > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death to
> > >> > drive
> > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > >> >
> > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle, but if
> > >> > you
> > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > >> >
> > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd handling
> > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on the
> > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's not
> > >> > that
> > >> > big a deal.
> > >> >
> > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm not
> > >> > just
> > >> > making this up.
> > >> >
> > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets, because
> of
> > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen to
> > >> > you.
> > >> >
> > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no ill
> > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> different
> > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > >> >
> > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't run
> > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to hear
> > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > >> >
> > >> > Spdloader
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> brand
> > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are the
> > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> tire
> > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious damage
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and got
> > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little less
> > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should I
> > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> what?
> > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive 2-wheel
> > >> >> drive
> > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would this
> > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > >> >>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel drive,
> > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I could
> be
> > >> >> all wrong.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding accidents
> > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved in
> > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better. So
> > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a long
> > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> they
> > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to know:
> > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy two
> > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> >
> >
>
>


--
Will Honea

Will Honea

True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
nominal) is probably a valid argument.

As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
AAMOF.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
<NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:

> It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether they
> matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a potential
> jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent defective
> equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for mismatched
> tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
>
> Earle
>
> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > (Sorry this is so long)
> >
> > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the legal
> > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> mixed
> > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in law
> > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> well.
> > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple of
> > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> >
> > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of the
> > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other than
> > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due to
> > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN an
> > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make a
> > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS know
> > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who was
> > killed or maimed on one.
> >
> > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but disagree
> > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> weighs
> > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> acceleration
> > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end due
> > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear tires
> > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the front
> > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't CAUSE
> > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> >
> > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the laws
> of
> > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> >
> > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac Wagon
> in
> > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> didn't
> > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on front
> to
> > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road conditions
> > and driver ability all playing a part.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Spdloader
> > C. Tracy Bryson
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old brand
> > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > >
> > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just plain
> > > wrong.
> > >
> > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of the
> > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the ditch on
> > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > >
> > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > >
> > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any acceleration.
> > >
> > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > Spdloader wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I forgot to add,
> > >>
> > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> two
> > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is that
> > >> tires
> > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > >>
> > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > >> vehicle
> > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > >>
> > >> Later,
> > >>
> > >> Spdloader
> > >>
> > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death to
> > >> > drive
> > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > >> >
> > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle, but if
> > >> > you
> > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > >> >
> > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd handling
> > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on the
> > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's not
> > >> > that
> > >> > big a deal.
> > >> >
> > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm not
> > >> > just
> > >> > making this up.
> > >> >
> > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets, because
> of
> > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen to
> > >> > you.
> > >> >
> > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no ill
> > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> different
> > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > >> >
> > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't run
> > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to hear
> > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > >> >
> > >> > Spdloader
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> brand
> > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are the
> > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> tire
> > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious damage
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and got
> > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little less
> > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should I
> > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> what?
> > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive 2-wheel
> > >> >> drive
> > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would this
> > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > >> >>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel drive,
> > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I could
> be
> > >> >> all wrong.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding accidents
> > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved in
> > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better. So
> > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a long
> > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> they
> > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to know:
> > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy two
> > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> >
> >
>
>


--
Will Honea

Will Honea

True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
nominal) is probably a valid argument.

As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
AAMOF.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
<NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:

> It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether they
> matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a potential
> jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent defective
> equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for mismatched
> tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
>
> Earle
>
> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > (Sorry this is so long)
> >
> > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the legal
> > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> mixed
> > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in law
> > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> well.
> > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple of
> > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> >
> > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of the
> > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other than
> > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due to
> > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN an
> > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make a
> > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS know
> > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who was
> > killed or maimed on one.
> >
> > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but disagree
> > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> weighs
> > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> acceleration
> > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end due
> > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear tires
> > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the front
> > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't CAUSE
> > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> >
> > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the laws
> of
> > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> >
> > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac Wagon
> in
> > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> didn't
> > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on front
> to
> > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road conditions
> > and driver ability all playing a part.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Spdloader
> > C. Tracy Bryson
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old brand
> > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > >
> > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just plain
> > > wrong.
> > >
> > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of the
> > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the ditch on
> > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > >
> > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > >
> > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any acceleration.
> > >
> > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > Spdloader wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I forgot to add,
> > >>
> > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> two
> > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is that
> > >> tires
> > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > >>
> > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > >> vehicle
> > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > >>
> > >> Later,
> > >>
> > >> Spdloader
> > >>
> > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death to
> > >> > drive
> > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > >> >
> > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle, but if
> > >> > you
> > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > >> >
> > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd handling
> > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on the
> > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's not
> > >> > that
> > >> > big a deal.
> > >> >
> > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm not
> > >> > just
> > >> > making this up.
> > >> >
> > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets, because
> of
> > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen to
> > >> > you.
> > >> >
> > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no ill
> > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> different
> > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > >> >
> > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't run
> > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to hear
> > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > >> >
> > >> > Spdloader
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> brand
> > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are the
> > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> tire
> > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious damage
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and got
> > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little less
> > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should I
> > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> what?
> > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive 2-wheel
> > >> >> drive
> > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would this
> > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > >> >>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel drive,
> > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I could
> be
> > >> >> all wrong.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding accidents
> > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved in
> > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better. So
> > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a long
> > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> they
> > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to know:
> > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy two
> > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> >
> >
>
>


--
Will Honea