Mismatched tire brands
#161
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> nominal) is probably a valid argument.
>
> As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> AAMOF.
>
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
they
> > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
potential
> > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
defective
> > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
mismatched
> > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > >
> > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
legal
> > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > mixed
> > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
law
> > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > well.
> > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
of
> > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > >
> > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
the
> > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
than
> > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
to
> > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
an
> > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
a
> > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
know
> > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
was
> > > killed or maimed on one.
> > >
> > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
disagree
> > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > weighs
> > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > acceleration
> > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
due
> > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
tires
> > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
front
> > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
CAUSE
> > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > >
> > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
laws
> > of
> > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > >
> > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
Wagon
> > in
> > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > didn't
> > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
front
> > to
> > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
conditions
> > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Spdloader
> > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
brand
> > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > >
> > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
plain
> > > > wrong.
> > > >
> > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
the
> > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
ditch on
> > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > >
> > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > >
> > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
acceleration.
> > > >
> > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > >>
> > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > two
> > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
that
> > > >> tires
> > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > >> vehicle
> > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > >>
> > > >> Later,
> > > >>
> > > >> Spdloader
> > > >>
> > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
to
> > > >> > drive
> > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
but if
> > > >> > you
> > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
handling
> > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
the
> > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
not
> > > >> > that
> > > >> > big a deal.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
not
> > > >> > just
> > > >> > making this up.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
because
> > of
> > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
to
> > > >> > you.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
ill
> > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > different
> > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
run
> > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
hear
> > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Spdloader
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > brand
> > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
the
> > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > tire
> > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
damage
> > > >> >> to
> > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
got
> > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
less
> > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
I
> > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > what?
> > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
2-wheel
> > > >> >> drive
> > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
this
> > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > >> >>
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
drive,
> > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
could
> > be
> > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
accidents
> > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
in
> > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
So
> > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
long
> > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > they
> > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
know:
> > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
two
> > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> nominal) is probably a valid argument.
>
> As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> AAMOF.
>
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
they
> > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
potential
> > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
defective
> > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
mismatched
> > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > >
> > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
legal
> > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > mixed
> > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
law
> > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > well.
> > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
of
> > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > >
> > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
the
> > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
than
> > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
to
> > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
an
> > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
a
> > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
know
> > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
was
> > > killed or maimed on one.
> > >
> > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
disagree
> > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > weighs
> > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > acceleration
> > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
due
> > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
tires
> > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
front
> > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
CAUSE
> > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > >
> > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
laws
> > of
> > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > >
> > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
Wagon
> > in
> > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > didn't
> > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
front
> > to
> > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
conditions
> > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Spdloader
> > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
brand
> > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > >
> > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
plain
> > > > wrong.
> > > >
> > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
the
> > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
ditch on
> > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > >
> > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > >
> > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
acceleration.
> > > >
> > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > >>
> > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > two
> > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
that
> > > >> tires
> > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > >> vehicle
> > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > >>
> > > >> Later,
> > > >>
> > > >> Spdloader
> > > >>
> > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
to
> > > >> > drive
> > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
but if
> > > >> > you
> > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
handling
> > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
the
> > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
not
> > > >> > that
> > > >> > big a deal.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
not
> > > >> > just
> > > >> > making this up.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
because
> > of
> > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
to
> > > >> > you.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
ill
> > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > different
> > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
run
> > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
hear
> > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Spdloader
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > brand
> > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
the
> > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > tire
> > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
damage
> > > >> >> to
> > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
got
> > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
less
> > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
I
> > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > what?
> > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
2-wheel
> > > >> >> drive
> > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
this
> > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > >> >>
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
drive,
> > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
could
> > be
> > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
accidents
> > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
in
> > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
So
> > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
long
> > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > they
> > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
know:
> > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
two
> > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
#162
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> nominal) is probably a valid argument.
>
> As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> AAMOF.
>
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
they
> > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
potential
> > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
defective
> > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
mismatched
> > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > >
> > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
legal
> > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > mixed
> > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
law
> > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > well.
> > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
of
> > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > >
> > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
the
> > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
than
> > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
to
> > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
an
> > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
a
> > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
know
> > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
was
> > > killed or maimed on one.
> > >
> > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
disagree
> > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > weighs
> > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > acceleration
> > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
due
> > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
tires
> > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
front
> > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
CAUSE
> > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > >
> > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
laws
> > of
> > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > >
> > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
Wagon
> > in
> > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > didn't
> > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
front
> > to
> > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
conditions
> > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Spdloader
> > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
brand
> > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > >
> > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
plain
> > > > wrong.
> > > >
> > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
the
> > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
ditch on
> > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > >
> > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > >
> > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
acceleration.
> > > >
> > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > >>
> > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > two
> > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
that
> > > >> tires
> > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > >> vehicle
> > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > >>
> > > >> Later,
> > > >>
> > > >> Spdloader
> > > >>
> > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
to
> > > >> > drive
> > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
but if
> > > >> > you
> > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
handling
> > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
the
> > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
not
> > > >> > that
> > > >> > big a deal.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
not
> > > >> > just
> > > >> > making this up.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
because
> > of
> > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
to
> > > >> > you.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
ill
> > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > different
> > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
run
> > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
hear
> > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Spdloader
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > brand
> > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
the
> > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > tire
> > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
damage
> > > >> >> to
> > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
got
> > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
less
> > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
I
> > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > what?
> > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
2-wheel
> > > >> >> drive
> > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
this
> > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > >> >>
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
drive,
> > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
could
> > be
> > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
accidents
> > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
in
> > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
So
> > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
long
> > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > they
> > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
know:
> > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
two
> > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> nominal) is probably a valid argument.
>
> As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> AAMOF.
>
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
they
> > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
potential
> > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
defective
> > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
mismatched
> > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > >
> > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
legal
> > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > mixed
> > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
law
> > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > well.
> > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
of
> > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > >
> > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
the
> > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
than
> > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
to
> > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
an
> > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
a
> > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
know
> > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
was
> > > killed or maimed on one.
> > >
> > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
disagree
> > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > weighs
> > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > acceleration
> > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
due
> > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
tires
> > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
front
> > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
CAUSE
> > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > >
> > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
laws
> > of
> > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > >
> > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
Wagon
> > in
> > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > didn't
> > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
front
> > to
> > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
conditions
> > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Spdloader
> > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
brand
> > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > >
> > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
plain
> > > > wrong.
> > > >
> > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
the
> > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
ditch on
> > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > >
> > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > >
> > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
acceleration.
> > > >
> > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > >>
> > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > two
> > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
that
> > > >> tires
> > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > >> vehicle
> > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > >>
> > > >> Later,
> > > >>
> > > >> Spdloader
> > > >>
> > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
to
> > > >> > drive
> > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
but if
> > > >> > you
> > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
handling
> > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
the
> > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
not
> > > >> > that
> > > >> > big a deal.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
not
> > > >> > just
> > > >> > making this up.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
because
> > of
> > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
to
> > > >> > you.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
ill
> > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > different
> > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
run
> > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
hear
> > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Spdloader
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > brand
> > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
the
> > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > tire
> > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
damage
> > > >> >> to
> > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
got
> > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
less
> > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
I
> > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > what?
> > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
2-wheel
> > > >> >> drive
> > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
this
> > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > >> >>
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
drive,
> > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
could
> > be
> > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
accidents
> > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
in
> > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
So
> > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
long
> > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > they
> > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
know:
> > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
two
> > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
#163
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
I wrote my district attorney's office a long letter, telling them exactly
what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> nominal) is probably a valid argument.
>
> As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> AAMOF.
>
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
they
> > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
potential
> > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
defective
> > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
mismatched
> > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > >
> > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
legal
> > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > mixed
> > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
law
> > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > well.
> > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
of
> > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > >
> > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
the
> > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
than
> > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
to
> > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
an
> > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
a
> > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
know
> > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
was
> > > killed or maimed on one.
> > >
> > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
disagree
> > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > weighs
> > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > acceleration
> > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
due
> > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
tires
> > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
front
> > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
CAUSE
> > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > >
> > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
laws
> > of
> > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > >
> > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
Wagon
> > in
> > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > didn't
> > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
front
> > to
> > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
conditions
> > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Spdloader
> > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
brand
> > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > >
> > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
plain
> > > > wrong.
> > > >
> > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
the
> > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
ditch on
> > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > >
> > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > >
> > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
acceleration.
> > > >
> > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > >>
> > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > two
> > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
that
> > > >> tires
> > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > >> vehicle
> > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > >>
> > > >> Later,
> > > >>
> > > >> Spdloader
> > > >>
> > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
to
> > > >> > drive
> > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
but if
> > > >> > you
> > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
handling
> > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
the
> > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
not
> > > >> > that
> > > >> > big a deal.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
not
> > > >> > just
> > > >> > making this up.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
because
> > of
> > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
to
> > > >> > you.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
ill
> > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > different
> > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
run
> > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
hear
> > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Spdloader
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > brand
> > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
the
> > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > tire
> > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
damage
> > > >> >> to
> > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
got
> > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
less
> > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
I
> > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > what?
> > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
2-wheel
> > > >> >> drive
> > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
this
> > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > >> >>
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
drive,
> > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
could
> > be
> > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
accidents
> > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
in
> > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
So
> > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
long
> > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > they
> > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
know:
> > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
two
> > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
what I thought of their refusal to prosecute a --- offender in my community,
who had been caught red-handed. Then I published, at my own expense, an
article characterizing the local sheriff as "stupid" for her role in the
same incident. I doubt they will ever let me sit on any jury here.
We weren't, as far as I know, talking about 215/235 on the same axle. We
were talking about Firestone matched with Goodyear, both radials, or even
two different model tires from the same manufacturer. And Canadian cops or
accident investigators throwing their weight around. I am so glad that I
don't (yet) live in a totalitarian society.
Earle
"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-p28BpLwixko2@anon.none.net...
> True, Earle, but you can be damned sure that the plaintif's lawyer
> would very carefully point the dreadful consequences of such a
> mismatch had it existed. The 215/235 difference (nearly an inch
> nominal) is probably a valid argument.
>
> As Bill points out, as an engineer who has also served as an expert
> witness (for either side) in product liability cases a few times, I
> spend very little time on jury duty - can't remember the last time
> AAMOF.
>
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:44:23 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > It is said that a jury is the conscience of a community. I'll bet you
> > couldn't put together a jury in the U.S., or in Canada either, of twelve
> > people who all knew what kind of tires they had on their cars, whether
they
> > matched, or even how to tell what size they all were. Imho, as a
potential
> > jury member, you are not going to get a conviction, for negligent
defective
> > equipment, if the tires are all the same size, and inflated more or less
> > properly. The cop who told Mike he could have gone to jail for
mismatched
> > tires, was plainly blowing smoke.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:0I1if.6272$3o6.1393147@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > (Sorry this is so long)
> > >
> > > No, that's not what I'm saying at all Mike. Just pointing out the
legal
> > > differences between the US and someone who said you can go to jail for
> > mixed
> > > tires in Canada. I investigated tons of accidents during my years in
law
> > > enforcement. Tons. I was a certified accident investigation trainer as
> > well.
> > > I never found mismatched tires to be the culprit. Bald tires on ice a
> > > couple of times, steel belts showing then the tire blew out a couple
of
> > > times, but that's it, and those were the fault of the owner.
> > >
> > > Again, I don't condone mixing up tires, I'm just saying that some of
the
> > > responses were a bit overboard in what might happen, and that other
than
> > > with blowouts and severe under-inflation, (which causes a blowout due
to
> > > heat like with the Firestone/Explorer fiasco) tires seldom cause and
> > > accident, but they can reduce your ability to control the vehicle IN
an
> > > accident, or in extreme conditions. People go overboard trying to make
a
> > > point, just like when I tell people I ride a motorcycle, they ALWAYS
know
> > > someone killed/maimed on one, or know someone who knows someone who
was
> > > killed or maimed on one.
> > >
> > > Regarding the gent in the other newsgroup, I read the post, but
disagree
> > > that mismatched tires were the only cause. LOTS of things can cause
> > > fishtailing in snow, it is snow, after all. The rear of that vehicle
> > weighs
> > > much less than the front, and it WILL come around the front on
> > acceleration
> > > because the front weighs more, and with the "plowing" of the front end
due
> > > to snow and weight, the front has more rolling resistance. The rear
tires
> > > will take the path of least resistance, to the left or right of the
front
> > > end. Mismatched tires will only create secondary problems, but won't
CAUSE
> > > the problem, unless WILDLY different.
> > >
> > > Todays SUVs may be more susceptible to differences in tires, but the
laws
> > of
> > > gravity and physics hasn't changed.
> > >
> > > I would venture a guess that when you "damn near put your Pontiac
Wagon
> > in
> > > a ditch", you were merely driving too fast for conditions. The tires
> > didn't
> > > cause that, you did by driving beyond your tires ability to maintain
> > > adhesion to the road. There are totally different dynamics going on
front
> > to
> > > rear and side to side on a turn. Weight, speed, traction, road
conditions
> > > and driver ability all playing a part.
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Spdloader
> > > C. Tracy Bryson
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:43888391.4239085B@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Good lord man, you are trying to say mixing and matching any old
brand
> > > > as long as they size stamp is the same is ok????
> > > >
> > > > Besides being 'way' out of date with today's SUV's, that is just
plain
> > > > wrong.
> > > >
> > > > I once mixed a set of Michelin radials on the front and goodyears of
the
> > > > same size on the back and damn near put my Pontiac wagon in the
ditch on
> > > > the first corner. It dove and slid out sideways.
> > > >
> > > > That was the last time I ever did anything so stupid with tires.
> > > >
> > > > There is a gent on another Jeep group who just posted asking why his
> > > > wrangler always wants to fishtail in the snow under any
acceleration.
> > > >
> > > > If you guessed mis matched tires, you would be right.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >
> > > > Spdloader wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I forgot to add,
> > > >>
> > > >> During the time I sold tires, I was licensed to inspect vehicles in
> > two
> > > >> states. As with most other states, the only stipulation made is
that
> > > >> tires
> > > >> have at least 3/32 of tread.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was also a cop for 9 years previous to that. Nothing in the Motor
> > > >> vehicle
> > > >> code about tire brand, just minimum tread depth.
> > > >>
> > > >> Later,
> > > >>
> > > >> Spdloader
> > > >>
> > > >> "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > >> news:tVIhf.5729$3o6.1308251@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> > > >> > Good lord if I believed everything I read, I'd be scared to death
to
> > > >> > drive
> > > >> > after reading some of these replies.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It's important to have a matched set of tires on your vehicle,
but if
> > > >> > you
> > > >> > can't, match them per axle.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > NOTHING catastrophic is going to happen to you running a slightly
> > > >> > different tire, (notice I said slightly) it CAN cause odd
handling
> > > >> > characteristics, and it CAN cause slightly odd braking if it's on
the
> > > >> > front, but unless its wildly different from the other tires, it's
not
> > > >> > that
> > > >> > big a deal.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I sold tires for and was a front end mechanic for 11 years. I'm
not
> > > >> > just
> > > >> > making this up.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Most new tire dealers ARE afraid to sell you unmatched sets,
because
> > of
> > > >> > the potential for liability, because everyone DOES sue now, for
> > > >> > everything. It doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen
to
> > > >> > you.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Millions of vehicles run mismatched tires, re-treads, etc with no
ill
> > > >> > effect. Trans-Ams a few years ago came from the factory with
> > different
> > > >> > size tires from front to rear.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I don't condone running different tires on your vehicle, I don't
run
> > > >> > oddballs on my passenger vehicles either, but just wanted you to
hear
> > > >> > something other than "doomsday" advice.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Spdloader
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > <ralconte@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > >> > news:1132935028.988595.38340@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
> > > >> >> Hi there, I've got a Jeep Wrangler 2001, and I have 3 Firestone
> > brand
> > > >> >> tires, and one original brand, came with the vehicle. They are
the
> > > >> >> same diameter, just different brands. One has gone flat, and the
> > tire
> > > >> >> dealer refuses to sell me a new one -- he says I risk serious
damage
> > > >> >> to
> > > >> >> the differential, and he wants no part of an installation on my
> > > >> >> vehicle, presumably, for liability purposes. So I just went and
got
> > > >> >> the tire patched, the local filling station must be a little
less
> > > >> >> afraid of liability.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> So, what does this state of affairs mean for my vehicle. Should
I
> > > >> >> never use the 4 wheel drive, use only at the slowest speeds, or
> > what?
> > > >> >> Am I at some small, moderate or serious risk when I drive
2-wheel
> > > >> >> drive
> > > >> >> on an ordinary day, on rainy days, or at highway speeds? Would
this
> > > >> >> adversely affect the ABS in any way?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> There was one similar thread on this subject before.
> > > >> >>
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...09b3108a50b2bc
> > > >> >> Involving using the mini-spare, and its affect on the 4-wheel
drive,
> > > >> >> and thats not really the case for my vehicle, I assume, or I
could
> > be
> > > >> >> all wrong.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> The tire dealer has many newspaper clippings up regarding
accidents
> > > >> >> caused by mismatched tires, even involving police cars involved
in
> > > >> >> accidents, presumably the point is that they should know better.
So
> > > >> >> this could be a serious problem that no one acknowledged for a
long
> > > >> >> time. Or they could be over-cautios for liability purposes. Or
> > they
> > > >> >> just want people to buy more tires. At any rate, I'd like to
know:
> > > >> >> What should I do. Hopefully, the answer isn't: Immediately buy
two
> > > >> >> new tires, and juck those serviceable mismatched ones.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea
#164
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
This legal crap is very regional. In California if you have bad brakes, and
bald tires, and are talking on a cell-phone when you kill a motorcyclist,
the worst that will happen is a negligence charge, and a fine..
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
bald tires, and are talking on a cell-phone when you kill a motorcyclist,
the worst that will happen is a negligence charge, and a fine..
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
#165
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
This legal crap is very regional. In California if you have bad brakes, and
bald tires, and are talking on a cell-phone when you kill a motorcyclist,
the worst that will happen is a negligence charge, and a fine..
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
bald tires, and are talking on a cell-phone when you kill a motorcyclist,
the worst that will happen is a negligence charge, and a fine..
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
#166
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
This legal crap is very regional. In California if you have bad brakes, and
bald tires, and are talking on a cell-phone when you kill a motorcyclist,
the worst that will happen is a negligence charge, and a fine..
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
bald tires, and are talking on a cell-phone when you kill a motorcyclist,
the worst that will happen is a negligence charge, and a fine..
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
#167
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
Those are the tiny spares that are placarded for "emergency use only"
with distance and speed limits (45 MPH?) on the warning, aren't they?
L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> Fords, here for one are still using the space saver spare tire, at
> least with the front wheel drive vans.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> TW wrote:
>
>>The logic here in New Zealand is in line with Canada. You cannot have two
>>mismatched tyres on the same axle (it is illegal). If there is an accident,
>>you are history as probably the insurance won't cover it as well because you
>>were driving an "unfit" or "unsafe" car. We have to have a warrant of
>>fitness performed on our cars here (annually if it is less than six years
>>old, six monthly after that) and part of the test includes tread depth,
>>tread wear and pattern. Its much easier to just replace them all and sell
>>the old ones separately if some of them are any good.
>>
>>TW
#168
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
Those are the tiny spares that are placarded for "emergency use only"
with distance and speed limits (45 MPH?) on the warning, aren't they?
L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> Fords, here for one are still using the space saver spare tire, at
> least with the front wheel drive vans.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> TW wrote:
>
>>The logic here in New Zealand is in line with Canada. You cannot have two
>>mismatched tyres on the same axle (it is illegal). If there is an accident,
>>you are history as probably the insurance won't cover it as well because you
>>were driving an "unfit" or "unsafe" car. We have to have a warrant of
>>fitness performed on our cars here (annually if it is less than six years
>>old, six monthly after that) and part of the test includes tread depth,
>>tread wear and pattern. Its much easier to just replace them all and sell
>>the old ones separately if some of them are any good.
>>
>>TW
#169
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
Those are the tiny spares that are placarded for "emergency use only"
with distance and speed limits (45 MPH?) on the warning, aren't they?
L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> Fords, here for one are still using the space saver spare tire, at
> least with the front wheel drive vans.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> TW wrote:
>
>>The logic here in New Zealand is in line with Canada. You cannot have two
>>mismatched tyres on the same axle (it is illegal). If there is an accident,
>>you are history as probably the insurance won't cover it as well because you
>>were driving an "unfit" or "unsafe" car. We have to have a warrant of
>>fitness performed on our cars here (annually if it is less than six years
>>old, six monthly after that) and part of the test includes tread depth,
>>tread wear and pattern. Its much easier to just replace them all and sell
>>the old ones separately if some of them are any good.
>>
>>TW
#170
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Mismatched tire brands
My used `89 Cherokee still had its factory-fresh "space saver" spare in
place when I bought it.
TW wrote:
> Well, space savers are usually only found on small hatch backs.
> Additionally, they are an exception. I had ASSUMEd that we were talking
> about mismatched full size tyres on the same axle. Some high end luxury
> cards come with different width front and rear tyres also. But as long
> as tyres on the same axle are same size and pattern, its fine.
>
> I am not sure what would happen if one has directional tyres and the
> spare is only one direction. If you have to replace your other
> direction with a spare, then you have a case of one tyre on the axle in
> one direction and the other in the opposite direction. What happens if
> you have an accident like that. I might actually ask a cop or the
> insurance company just for clarification. BTW, I am running BFG Muds so
> directional aspects are not applicable to me personally.
>
> TW
>
> "L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:4387A31A.1708D641@***.net...
> Fords, here for one are still using the space saver spare tire, at
> least with the front wheel drive vans.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> TW wrote:
>
>>
>> The logic here in New Zealand is in line with Canada. You cannot have
>> two
>> mismatched tyres on the same axle (it is illegal). If there is an
>> accident,
>> you are history as probably the insurance won't cover it as well
>> because you
>> were driving an "unfit" or "unsafe" car. We have to have a warrant of
>> fitness performed on our cars here (annually if it is less than six years
>> old, six monthly after that) and part of the test includes tread depth,
>> tread wear and pattern. Its much easier to just replace them all and
>> sell
>> the old ones separately if some of them are any good.
>>
>> TW
>
>