Mike Romain

Find a couple more Jeeps, preferably with winches.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> All i know is i didnt have the luxury of any ruts in the road,
> only one, at 3 feet deep, the ditch, i knew i was screwed when i began
> sliding backwards and sideways, and just got it into the ditch,
>
> had i of had a winch, i woulda winched down like i was advised,
> i didnt, so i drove the ditch,
> ,
> and lukily im here,
> i wont be going up again till spring,
> johnp

Mike Romain

Find a couple more Jeeps, preferably with winches.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> All i know is i didnt have the luxury of any ruts in the road,
> only one, at 3 feet deep, the ditch, i knew i was screwed when i began
> sliding backwards and sideways, and just got it into the ditch,
>
> had i of had a winch, i woulda winched down like i was advised,
> i didnt, so i drove the ditch,
> ,
> and lukily im here,
> i wont be going up again till spring,
> johnp

Mike Romain

Find a couple more Jeeps, preferably with winches.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> All i know is i didnt have the luxury of any ruts in the road,
> only one, at 3 feet deep, the ditch, i knew i was screwed when i began
> sliding backwards and sideways, and just got it into the ditch,
>
> had i of had a winch, i woulda winched down like i was advised,
> i didnt, so i drove the ditch,
> ,
> and lukily im here,
> i wont be going up again till spring,
> johnp

Jeff Strickland

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:9-KdnWdDfOIgQn_cRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> >
>> This was your first mistake. Thankfully, it wasn't your last.
>>
>> WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE
>> Assuming you were insistant on climbing the hill ...
>
> Ever driven up a hill covered with wet, packed snow, Jeff? I was riding a
> trail recently on such conditions with about 7 jeeps ahead of me. Once I
> got
> to the hill, the snow had packed considerably and was fairly slick, but
> not
> terribly steep, I had enough traction to inch up the hill. But when I had
> to
> stop just shy of the top, I could feel myself slowly inching down, even
> with
> my foot on the brake. (And no, Bill or Mike, the ABS was not activating.)
> It
> was sliding just about half a foot per second, so I had enough time to
> radio
> to the fellow behind me to get out of the way. I couldn't get enough
> traction to get back up at that point, so my only choice was to slide all
> the way back down and have another go. Spinning the wheels just makes a
> situation like that worse...the tires melt a layer of snow and so now you
> have a water-slicked layer of snow that won't give any traction at all.
>


That is all well and good, but my point is that depressing the clutch pedal
can't possibly be an improvement in your situation. When something like this
happens, the best thing is to keep the tires turning in the direction you
want to go. I understand that this is TOTALLY counter intuitive and very
difficult to accomplish, but a tire that is turning is a tire that can help
with directional control, a tire that is not turning is a tire that is
subject to the slope and the imposed direction of travel. This holds true
going forward or backward. I know the instinct is to smash the brake pedal
into the carpet, but I submit that resisting the impulse is often times the
better course of action.

But, no, I have no experience in snow, but I am well versed in steep hills
covered with sand and dirt.







>>
>> > i was told by a friend that i would have gotten better traction if i
>> > had aired-down my tires, to 5-10 pounds,
>> > is this true on packed slick snow on a very steep incline??
>>
>>
>> Of course it's true. You will always get better traction with low air
>> pressure.
>>
> Assuming there is any traction to be had, and on a snow-packed slick
> incline
> ther is almost zero. if the snow isn't too deep, taller and narrow tires
> will work better, especially on the street, but for really deep stuff, if
> it's firm enough you *can* float on top, or at least not sink all the way
> to
> your frame. However, spin your tires once and you literally get that
> sinking
> feeling...the jeep just drops and there you are, with your jeep doing an
> impersonation of an igloo.
>
>
>
>

Jeff Strickland

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:9-KdnWdDfOIgQn_cRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> >
>> This was your first mistake. Thankfully, it wasn't your last.
>>
>> WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE
>> Assuming you were insistant on climbing the hill ...
>
> Ever driven up a hill covered with wet, packed snow, Jeff? I was riding a
> trail recently on such conditions with about 7 jeeps ahead of me. Once I
> got
> to the hill, the snow had packed considerably and was fairly slick, but
> not
> terribly steep, I had enough traction to inch up the hill. But when I had
> to
> stop just shy of the top, I could feel myself slowly inching down, even
> with
> my foot on the brake. (And no, Bill or Mike, the ABS was not activating.)
> It
> was sliding just about half a foot per second, so I had enough time to
> radio
> to the fellow behind me to get out of the way. I couldn't get enough
> traction to get back up at that point, so my only choice was to slide all
> the way back down and have another go. Spinning the wheels just makes a
> situation like that worse...the tires melt a layer of snow and so now you
> have a water-slicked layer of snow that won't give any traction at all.
>


That is all well and good, but my point is that depressing the clutch pedal
can't possibly be an improvement in your situation. When something like this
happens, the best thing is to keep the tires turning in the direction you
want to go. I understand that this is TOTALLY counter intuitive and very
difficult to accomplish, but a tire that is turning is a tire that can help
with directional control, a tire that is not turning is a tire that is
subject to the slope and the imposed direction of travel. This holds true
going forward or backward. I know the instinct is to smash the brake pedal
into the carpet, but I submit that resisting the impulse is often times the
better course of action.

But, no, I have no experience in snow, but I am well versed in steep hills
covered with sand and dirt.







>>
>> > i was told by a friend that i would have gotten better traction if i
>> > had aired-down my tires, to 5-10 pounds,
>> > is this true on packed slick snow on a very steep incline??
>>
>>
>> Of course it's true. You will always get better traction with low air
>> pressure.
>>
> Assuming there is any traction to be had, and on a snow-packed slick
> incline
> ther is almost zero. if the snow isn't too deep, taller and narrow tires
> will work better, especially on the street, but for really deep stuff, if
> it's firm enough you *can* float on top, or at least not sink all the way
> to
> your frame. However, spin your tires once and you literally get that
> sinking
> feeling...the jeep just drops and there you are, with your jeep doing an
> impersonation of an igloo.
>
>
>
>

Jeff Strickland

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:9-KdnWdDfOIgQn_cRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> >
>> This was your first mistake. Thankfully, it wasn't your last.
>>
>> WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE
>> Assuming you were insistant on climbing the hill ...
>
> Ever driven up a hill covered with wet, packed snow, Jeff? I was riding a
> trail recently on such conditions with about 7 jeeps ahead of me. Once I
> got
> to the hill, the snow had packed considerably and was fairly slick, but
> not
> terribly steep, I had enough traction to inch up the hill. But when I had
> to
> stop just shy of the top, I could feel myself slowly inching down, even
> with
> my foot on the brake. (And no, Bill or Mike, the ABS was not activating.)
> It
> was sliding just about half a foot per second, so I had enough time to
> radio
> to the fellow behind me to get out of the way. I couldn't get enough
> traction to get back up at that point, so my only choice was to slide all
> the way back down and have another go. Spinning the wheels just makes a
> situation like that worse...the tires melt a layer of snow and so now you
> have a water-slicked layer of snow that won't give any traction at all.
>


That is all well and good, but my point is that depressing the clutch pedal
can't possibly be an improvement in your situation. When something like this
happens, the best thing is to keep the tires turning in the direction you
want to go. I understand that this is TOTALLY counter intuitive and very
difficult to accomplish, but a tire that is turning is a tire that can help
with directional control, a tire that is not turning is a tire that is
subject to the slope and the imposed direction of travel. This holds true
going forward or backward. I know the instinct is to smash the brake pedal
into the carpet, but I submit that resisting the impulse is often times the
better course of action.

But, no, I have no experience in snow, but I am well versed in steep hills
covered with sand and dirt.







>>
>> > i was told by a friend that i would have gotten better traction if i
>> > had aired-down my tires, to 5-10 pounds,
>> > is this true on packed slick snow on a very steep incline??
>>
>>
>> Of course it's true. You will always get better traction with low air
>> pressure.
>>
> Assuming there is any traction to be had, and on a snow-packed slick
> incline
> ther is almost zero. if the snow isn't too deep, taller and narrow tires
> will work better, especially on the street, but for really deep stuff, if
> it's firm enough you *can* float on top, or at least not sink all the way
> to
> your frame. However, spin your tires once and you literally get that
> sinking
> feeling...the jeep just drops and there you are, with your jeep doing an
> impersonation of an igloo.
>
>
>
>

Jeff Strickland

Matt, despite anything Bill has to say to the contrary, you are right. If
you are stopped with all four tires locked up, and the vehicle is sliding
anyway, ABS will not change things. ABS drops out at speeds below about
10mph and allows the brakes to lock up anyway.




"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:0bKdnR2FVvqwen_cRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> Actually, I can't remember, but it didn't matter...all four wheels weren't
> moving so as far as the ABS knew I was parked.
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:41E2E4EF.76BC24B2@***.net...
>> Hi Matt,
>> Of course you pull the fuse.
>> I drive fifty miles east to play in the snow. Only we chain up:
>> http://www.----------.com/snowchains.jpg to drive up the icy spots. One
>> our favorite snow runs:
>> http://www.valleycenter.com/frontpage/nategrade1.htm
>> It's fun watching our TV news, as you people slide into each other.
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:--------------------
>>
>> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >
>> > Ever driven up a hill covered with wet, packed snow, Jeff? I was riding
> a
>> > trail recently on such conditions with about 7 jeeps ahead of me. Once
>> > I
> got
>> > to the hill, the snow had packed considerably and was fairly slick, but
> not
>> > terribly steep, I had enough traction to inch up the hill. But when I
> had to
>> > stop just shy of the top, I could feel myself slowly inching down, even
> with
>> > my foot on the brake. (And no, Bill or Mike, the ABS was not
> activating.) It
>> > was sliding just about half a foot per second, so I had enough time to
> radio
>> > to the fellow behind me to get out of the way. I couldn't get enough
>> > traction to get back up at that point, so my only choice was to slide
> all
>> > the way back down and have another go. Spinning the wheels just makes a
>> > situation like that worse...the tires melt a layer of snow and so now
> you
>> > have a water-slicked layer of snow that won't give any traction at all.
>> >
>> > Assuming there is any traction to be had, and on a snow-packed slick
> incline
>> > ther is almost zero. if the snow isn't too deep, taller and narrow
>> > tires
>> > will work better, especially on the street, but for really deep stuff,
> if
>> > it's firm enough you *can* float on top, or at least not sink all the
> way to
>> > your frame. However, spin your tires once and you literally get that
> sinking
>> > feeling...the jeep just drops and there you are, with your jeep doing
>> > an
>> > impersonation of an igloo.
>
>

Jeff Strickland

Matt, despite anything Bill has to say to the contrary, you are right. If
you are stopped with all four tires locked up, and the vehicle is sliding
anyway, ABS will not change things. ABS drops out at speeds below about
10mph and allows the brakes to lock up anyway.




"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:0bKdnR2FVvqwen_cRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> Actually, I can't remember, but it didn't matter...all four wheels weren't
> moving so as far as the ABS knew I was parked.
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:41E2E4EF.76BC24B2@***.net...
>> Hi Matt,
>> Of course you pull the fuse.
>> I drive fifty miles east to play in the snow. Only we chain up:
>> http://www.----------.com/snowchains.jpg to drive up the icy spots. One
>> our favorite snow runs:
>> http://www.valleycenter.com/frontpage/nategrade1.htm
>> It's fun watching our TV news, as you people slide into each other.
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:--------------------
>>
>> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >
>> > Ever driven up a hill covered with wet, packed snow, Jeff? I was riding
> a
>> > trail recently on such conditions with about 7 jeeps ahead of me. Once
>> > I
> got
>> > to the hill, the snow had packed considerably and was fairly slick, but
> not
>> > terribly steep, I had enough traction to inch up the hill. But when I
> had to
>> > stop just shy of the top, I could feel myself slowly inching down, even
> with
>> > my foot on the brake. (And no, Bill or Mike, the ABS was not
> activating.) It
>> > was sliding just about half a foot per second, so I had enough time to
> radio
>> > to the fellow behind me to get out of the way. I couldn't get enough
>> > traction to get back up at that point, so my only choice was to slide
> all
>> > the way back down and have another go. Spinning the wheels just makes a
>> > situation like that worse...the tires melt a layer of snow and so now
> you
>> > have a water-slicked layer of snow that won't give any traction at all.
>> >
>> > Assuming there is any traction to be had, and on a snow-packed slick
> incline
>> > ther is almost zero. if the snow isn't too deep, taller and narrow
>> > tires
>> > will work better, especially on the street, but for really deep stuff,
> if
>> > it's firm enough you *can* float on top, or at least not sink all the
> way to
>> > your frame. However, spin your tires once and you literally get that
> sinking
>> > feeling...the jeep just drops and there you are, with your jeep doing
>> > an
>> > impersonation of an igloo.
>
>

Jeff Strickland

Matt, despite anything Bill has to say to the contrary, you are right. If
you are stopped with all four tires locked up, and the vehicle is sliding
anyway, ABS will not change things. ABS drops out at speeds below about
10mph and allows the brakes to lock up anyway.




"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:0bKdnR2FVvqwen_cRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> Actually, I can't remember, but it didn't matter...all four wheels weren't
> moving so as far as the ABS knew I was parked.
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:41E2E4EF.76BC24B2@***.net...
>> Hi Matt,
>> Of course you pull the fuse.
>> I drive fifty miles east to play in the snow. Only we chain up:
>> http://www.----------.com/snowchains.jpg to drive up the icy spots. One
>> our favorite snow runs:
>> http://www.valleycenter.com/frontpage/nategrade1.htm
>> It's fun watching our TV news, as you people slide into each other.
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:--------------------
>>
>> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >
>> > Ever driven up a hill covered with wet, packed snow, Jeff? I was riding
> a
>> > trail recently on such conditions with about 7 jeeps ahead of me. Once
>> > I
> got
>> > to the hill, the snow had packed considerably and was fairly slick, but
> not
>> > terribly steep, I had enough traction to inch up the hill. But when I
> had to
>> > stop just shy of the top, I could feel myself slowly inching down, even
> with
>> > my foot on the brake. (And no, Bill or Mike, the ABS was not
> activating.) It
>> > was sliding just about half a foot per second, so I had enough time to
> radio
>> > to the fellow behind me to get out of the way. I couldn't get enough
>> > traction to get back up at that point, so my only choice was to slide
> all
>> > the way back down and have another go. Spinning the wheels just makes a
>> > situation like that worse...the tires melt a layer of snow and so now
> you
>> > have a water-slicked layer of snow that won't give any traction at all.
>> >
>> > Assuming there is any traction to be had, and on a snow-packed slick
> incline
>> > ther is almost zero. if the snow isn't too deep, taller and narrow
>> > tires
>> > will work better, especially on the street, but for really deep stuff,
> if
>> > it's firm enough you *can* float on top, or at least not sink all the
> way to
>> > your frame. However, spin your tires once and you literally get that
> sinking
>> > feeling...the jeep just drops and there you are, with your jeep doing
>> > an
>> > impersonation of an igloo.
>
>

Rich Hampel

An alternative is to put it in neutral and feather the brakes. ....
this requires that the brakes are well set-up and 'equal' front to
rear.
Works well on solid 'black' ice as well as hardpack snow.

If the tires are dry you can spray on a rosin based belt dressing onto
the tread for additional 'traction' on hardpack or ice. Better is to
use cable chains on the rear and 'feather' the hand brake to keep the
rear end where it belongs. For super slippery conditions, increased
tire pressure than normal seems best.

Too bad they dont allow studded tires anymore. They do but you can
only run them (in PA) when its icy or snow-covered ..... not worth the
bother.

Am a ski-patroller.





In article <10u82ih2oishk57@corp.supernews.com>, Jeff Strickland
<crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:9-KdnWdDfOIgQn_cRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> > >
> >> This was your first mistake. Thankfully, it wasn't your last.
> >>
> >> WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE
> >> Assuming you were insistant on climbing the hill ...
> >
> > Ever driven up a hill covered with wet, packed snow, Jeff? I was riding a
> > trail recently on such conditions with about 7 jeeps ahead of me. Once I
> > got
> > to the hill, the snow had packed considerably and was fairly slick, but
> > not
> > terribly steep, I had enough traction to inch up the hill. But when I had
> > to
> > stop just shy of the top, I could feel myself slowly inching down, even
> > with
> > my foot on the brake. (And no, Bill or Mike, the ABS was not activating.)
> > It
> > was sliding just about half a foot per second, so I had enough time to
> > radio
> > to the fellow behind me to get out of the way. I couldn't get enough
> > traction to get back up at that point, so my only choice was to slide all
> > the way back down and have another go. Spinning the wheels just makes a
> > situation like that worse...the tires melt a layer of snow and so now you
> > have a water-slicked layer of snow that won't give any traction at all.
> >
>
>
> That is all well and good, but my point is that depressing the clutch pedal
> can't possibly be an improvement in your situation. When something like this
> happens, the best thing is to keep the tires turning in the direction you
> want to go. I understand that this is TOTALLY counter intuitive and very
> difficult to accomplish, but a tire that is turning is a tire that can help
> with directional control, a tire that is not turning is a tire that is
> subject to the slope and the imposed direction of travel. This holds true
> going forward or backward. I know the instinct is to smash the brake pedal
> into the carpet, but I submit that resisting the impulse is often times the
> better course of action.
>
> But, no, I have no experience in snow, but I am well versed in steep hills
> covered with sand and dirt.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>
> >> > i was told by a friend that i would have gotten better traction if i
> >> > had aired-down my tires, to 5-10 pounds,
> >> > is this true on packed slick snow on a very steep incline??
> >>
> >>
> >> Of course it's true. You will always get better traction with low air
> >> pressure.
> >>
> > Assuming there is any traction to be had, and on a snow-packed slick
> > incline
> > ther is almost zero. if the snow isn't too deep, taller and narrow tires
> > will work better, especially on the street, but for really deep stuff, if
> > it's firm enough you *can* float on top, or at least not sink all the way
> > to
> > your frame. However, spin your tires once and you literally get that
> > sinking
> > feeling...the jeep just drops and there you are, with your jeep doing an
> > impersonation of an igloo.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>