Jeff Strickland

There was a screamer before the commercial on the news last night, I don't
know where. The screamer was something like, "A 26 car pile up when we
return." I looked up from the 'puter to watch the pile up after the
commercial was over. The trouble it seems was on a residential street, at
least a street with a crown in the road. The cars were sliding over to the
curb, which then treated them like a bowling ball in the gutter, and they
all slid down the street into the next car. I saw one guy (maybe a woman, I
couldn't tell) that was hanging onto the door from outside, trying to hold
the car back so it wouldn't slide anymore. This was the passenger, the
driver was standing on the brake pedal. I saw another driver actually JUMP
FROM THE CAR and let it go on its way without her. The trouble for her was
then that the next car was coming, and she was not protected by the cage of
her car anymore. She managed to get out of the way in time, but the entire
scene was very surreal.

I don't know why these people had to stop, I assume the light turned red.
There was no significant speed involved, so the people were being careful,
or trying to be careful.




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:41E45C92.41B8A9A1@sympatico.ca...
> You 'desert rats' have no idea what it is like to have absolutely 'no'
> control at all no matter what you do. LOL!
>
> It is a really spooky feeling just sitting there and the damn vehicle is
> going to do what 'it' wants to, no matter how hard you curse at it or
> hit pedals!
>
> All you can do is lock it up to attempt to stop or aim it right to the
> 'correct' ditch and hope it isn't too deep a ditch or too long a walk
> out....
>
> We were in those conditions over New Years.....
>
> Mike
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >
> > That is not the scenario we were talking about, Bill.
> >
> > We were talking about a stationary vehicle slipping sideways in the ice.
> >
> > ABS needs a minimim speed to enable it, then it shuts off when speeds
drop
> > below another threshold. Effectively meaning that a car must attain a
speed
> > to set the system, and this speed is higher than the speed at which the
> > system knows it won't work effectively anymore, so it shuts down.
> >
> > And, the topic that started this was a guy telling us how he was not
able to
> > prevent sliding backwards, and he depressed the clutch pedal in an
attempt
> > to improve his immediate predicament. Regardless of what his brakes may
or
> > may not have been able to do for him, removing his engine from the
equation
> > by depresssing the clutch was the wrong thing to do.
> >
> > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:41E44B1F.38C56F10@***.net...
> > > So Jeff, do you believe if you are sliding at eleven miles an hour and
> > > release your brakes, ABS will allow you to reapply your brakes if one
> > > tire on each axle has no traction?
> > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Matt, despite anything Bill has to say to the contrary, you are
right.
> > If
> > > > you are stopped with all four tires locked up, and the vehicle is
> > sliding
> > > > anyway, ABS will not change things. ABS drops out at speeds below
about
> > > > 10mph and allows the brakes to lock up anyway.

Matt Macchiarolo

Somewhat off-topic, last Wednesday there was a pileup on I-96 near Lansing
MI of something on the order of 200 cars due to a thick localized fogbank.
Only 2 fatalities, but lots of injuries. People should slow down when they
(a) can't see the road and/or (b) can't feel the road.

"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:0bidnZaEkdmIsHXcRVn-rg@ez2.net...
> There was a screamer before the commercial on the news last night, I don't
> know where. The screamer was something like, "A 26 car pile up when we
> return." I looked up from the 'puter to watch the pile up after the
> commercial was over. The trouble it seems was on a residential street, at
> least a street with a crown in the road. The cars were sliding over to the
> curb, which then treated them like a bowling ball in the gutter, and they
> all slid down the street into the next car. I saw one guy (maybe a woman,
I
> couldn't tell) that was hanging onto the door from outside, trying to hold
> the car back so it wouldn't slide anymore. This was the passenger, the
> driver was standing on the brake pedal. I saw another driver actually JUMP
> FROM THE CAR and let it go on its way without her. The trouble for her was
> then that the next car was coming, and she was not protected by the cage
of
> her car anymore. She managed to get out of the way in time, but the entire
> scene was very surreal.
>
> I don't know why these people had to stop, I assume the light turned red.
> There was no significant speed involved, so the people were being careful,
> or trying to be careful.
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41E45C92.41B8A9A1@sympatico.ca...
> > You 'desert rats' have no idea what it is like to have absolutely 'no'
> > control at all no matter what you do. LOL!
> >
> > It is a really spooky feeling just sitting there and the damn vehicle is
> > going to do what 'it' wants to, no matter how hard you curse at it or
> > hit pedals!
> >
> > All you can do is lock it up to attempt to stop or aim it right to the
> > 'correct' ditch and hope it isn't too deep a ditch or too long a walk
> > out....
> >
> > We were in those conditions over New Years.....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > >
> > > That is not the scenario we were talking about, Bill.
> > >
> > > We were talking about a stationary vehicle slipping sideways in the
ice.
> > >
> > > ABS needs a minimim speed to enable it, then it shuts off when speeds
> drop
> > > below another threshold. Effectively meaning that a car must attain a
> speed
> > > to set the system, and this speed is higher than the speed at which
the
> > > system knows it won't work effectively anymore, so it shuts down.
> > >
> > > And, the topic that started this was a guy telling us how he was not
> able to
> > > prevent sliding backwards, and he depressed the clutch pedal in an
> attempt
> > > to improve his immediate predicament. Regardless of what his brakes
may
> or
> > > may not have been able to do for him, removing his engine from the
> equation
> > > by depresssing the clutch was the wrong thing to do.
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:41E44B1F.38C56F10@***.net...
> > > > So Jeff, do you believe if you are sliding at eleven miles an hour
and
> > > > release your brakes, ABS will allow you to reapply your brakes if
one
> > > > tire on each axle has no traction?
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt, despite anything Bill has to say to the contrary, you are
> right.
> > > If
> > > > > you are stopped with all four tires locked up, and the vehicle is
> > > sliding
> > > > > anyway, ABS will not change things. ABS drops out at speeds below
> about
> > > > > 10mph and allows the brakes to lock up anyway.
>
>

Matt Macchiarolo

Somewhat off-topic, last Wednesday there was a pileup on I-96 near Lansing
MI of something on the order of 200 cars due to a thick localized fogbank.
Only 2 fatalities, but lots of injuries. People should slow down when they
(a) can't see the road and/or (b) can't feel the road.

"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:0bidnZaEkdmIsHXcRVn-rg@ez2.net...
> There was a screamer before the commercial on the news last night, I don't
> know where. The screamer was something like, "A 26 car pile up when we
> return." I looked up from the 'puter to watch the pile up after the
> commercial was over. The trouble it seems was on a residential street, at
> least a street with a crown in the road. The cars were sliding over to the
> curb, which then treated them like a bowling ball in the gutter, and they
> all slid down the street into the next car. I saw one guy (maybe a woman,
I
> couldn't tell) that was hanging onto the door from outside, trying to hold
> the car back so it wouldn't slide anymore. This was the passenger, the
> driver was standing on the brake pedal. I saw another driver actually JUMP
> FROM THE CAR and let it go on its way without her. The trouble for her was
> then that the next car was coming, and she was not protected by the cage
of
> her car anymore. She managed to get out of the way in time, but the entire
> scene was very surreal.
>
> I don't know why these people had to stop, I assume the light turned red.
> There was no significant speed involved, so the people were being careful,
> or trying to be careful.
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41E45C92.41B8A9A1@sympatico.ca...
> > You 'desert rats' have no idea what it is like to have absolutely 'no'
> > control at all no matter what you do. LOL!
> >
> > It is a really spooky feeling just sitting there and the damn vehicle is
> > going to do what 'it' wants to, no matter how hard you curse at it or
> > hit pedals!
> >
> > All you can do is lock it up to attempt to stop or aim it right to the
> > 'correct' ditch and hope it isn't too deep a ditch or too long a walk
> > out....
> >
> > We were in those conditions over New Years.....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > >
> > > That is not the scenario we were talking about, Bill.
> > >
> > > We were talking about a stationary vehicle slipping sideways in the
ice.
> > >
> > > ABS needs a minimim speed to enable it, then it shuts off when speeds
> drop
> > > below another threshold. Effectively meaning that a car must attain a
> speed
> > > to set the system, and this speed is higher than the speed at which
the
> > > system knows it won't work effectively anymore, so it shuts down.
> > >
> > > And, the topic that started this was a guy telling us how he was not
> able to
> > > prevent sliding backwards, and he depressed the clutch pedal in an
> attempt
> > > to improve his immediate predicament. Regardless of what his brakes
may
> or
> > > may not have been able to do for him, removing his engine from the
> equation
> > > by depresssing the clutch was the wrong thing to do.
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:41E44B1F.38C56F10@***.net...
> > > > So Jeff, do you believe if you are sliding at eleven miles an hour
and
> > > > release your brakes, ABS will allow you to reapply your brakes if
one
> > > > tire on each axle has no traction?
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt, despite anything Bill has to say to the contrary, you are
> right.
> > > If
> > > > > you are stopped with all four tires locked up, and the vehicle is
> > > sliding
> > > > > anyway, ABS will not change things. ABS drops out at speeds below
> about
> > > > > 10mph and allows the brakes to lock up anyway.
>
>

Matt Macchiarolo

Somewhat off-topic, last Wednesday there was a pileup on I-96 near Lansing
MI of something on the order of 200 cars due to a thick localized fogbank.
Only 2 fatalities, but lots of injuries. People should slow down when they
(a) can't see the road and/or (b) can't feel the road.

"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:0bidnZaEkdmIsHXcRVn-rg@ez2.net...
> There was a screamer before the commercial on the news last night, I don't
> know where. The screamer was something like, "A 26 car pile up when we
> return." I looked up from the 'puter to watch the pile up after the
> commercial was over. The trouble it seems was on a residential street, at
> least a street with a crown in the road. The cars were sliding over to the
> curb, which then treated them like a bowling ball in the gutter, and they
> all slid down the street into the next car. I saw one guy (maybe a woman,
I
> couldn't tell) that was hanging onto the door from outside, trying to hold
> the car back so it wouldn't slide anymore. This was the passenger, the
> driver was standing on the brake pedal. I saw another driver actually JUMP
> FROM THE CAR and let it go on its way without her. The trouble for her was
> then that the next car was coming, and she was not protected by the cage
of
> her car anymore. She managed to get out of the way in time, but the entire
> scene was very surreal.
>
> I don't know why these people had to stop, I assume the light turned red.
> There was no significant speed involved, so the people were being careful,
> or trying to be careful.
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41E45C92.41B8A9A1@sympatico.ca...
> > You 'desert rats' have no idea what it is like to have absolutely 'no'
> > control at all no matter what you do. LOL!
> >
> > It is a really spooky feeling just sitting there and the damn vehicle is
> > going to do what 'it' wants to, no matter how hard you curse at it or
> > hit pedals!
> >
> > All you can do is lock it up to attempt to stop or aim it right to the
> > 'correct' ditch and hope it isn't too deep a ditch or too long a walk
> > out....
> >
> > We were in those conditions over New Years.....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > >
> > > That is not the scenario we were talking about, Bill.
> > >
> > > We were talking about a stationary vehicle slipping sideways in the
ice.
> > >
> > > ABS needs a minimim speed to enable it, then it shuts off when speeds
> drop
> > > below another threshold. Effectively meaning that a car must attain a
> speed
> > > to set the system, and this speed is higher than the speed at which
the
> > > system knows it won't work effectively anymore, so it shuts down.
> > >
> > > And, the topic that started this was a guy telling us how he was not
> able to
> > > prevent sliding backwards, and he depressed the clutch pedal in an
> attempt
> > > to improve his immediate predicament. Regardless of what his brakes
may
> or
> > > may not have been able to do for him, removing his engine from the
> equation
> > > by depresssing the clutch was the wrong thing to do.
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:41E44B1F.38C56F10@***.net...
> > > > So Jeff, do you believe if you are sliding at eleven miles an hour
and
> > > > release your brakes, ABS will allow you to reapply your brakes if
one
> > > > tire on each axle has no traction?
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt, despite anything Bill has to say to the contrary, you are
> right.
> > > If
> > > > > you are stopped with all four tires locked up, and the vehicle is
> > > sliding
> > > > > anyway, ABS will not change things. ABS drops out at speeds below
> about
> > > > > 10mph and allows the brakes to lock up anyway.
>
>

Derrick Hudson

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:59:18 -0500, Mike Romain wrote:

> If you have a TJ, you cannot stall it on a hill climb unless you hit
> something. The computer will keep upping the gas to keep the idle
> constant to match the load.

That's a nice feature. Maybe someday I will demonstrate that on mine.

> You literally can get out and walk beside a TJ while it calmly climbs
> the sand pit wall all by itself. I have photos of one gent from this
> group, Bob Anderson doing just that. Then I ran shotgun with him on a
> ravine climb that had the ATV drivers standing with their jaws hanging.
> I watched him not touch the gas pedal once going up that. I was
> impressed.

I'd love to see those pictures.


As for snow driving, we finally have some snow here to drive in!

-D

--
The righteous hate what is false,
but the wicked bring shame and disgrace.
Proverbs 13:5

www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ jabber: dman@dman13.dyndns.org

Derrick Hudson

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:59:18 -0500, Mike Romain wrote:

> If you have a TJ, you cannot stall it on a hill climb unless you hit
> something. The computer will keep upping the gas to keep the idle
> constant to match the load.

That's a nice feature. Maybe someday I will demonstrate that on mine.

> You literally can get out and walk beside a TJ while it calmly climbs
> the sand pit wall all by itself. I have photos of one gent from this
> group, Bob Anderson doing just that. Then I ran shotgun with him on a
> ravine climb that had the ATV drivers standing with their jaws hanging.
> I watched him not touch the gas pedal once going up that. I was
> impressed.

I'd love to see those pictures.


As for snow driving, we finally have some snow here to drive in!

-D

--
The righteous hate what is false,
but the wicked bring shame and disgrace.
Proverbs 13:5

www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ jabber: dman@dman13.dyndns.org

Derrick Hudson

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:59:18 -0500, Mike Romain wrote:

> If you have a TJ, you cannot stall it on a hill climb unless you hit
> something. The computer will keep upping the gas to keep the idle
> constant to match the load.

That's a nice feature. Maybe someday I will demonstrate that on mine.

> You literally can get out and walk beside a TJ while it calmly climbs
> the sand pit wall all by itself. I have photos of one gent from this
> group, Bob Anderson doing just that. Then I ran shotgun with him on a
> ravine climb that had the ATV drivers standing with their jaws hanging.
> I watched him not touch the gas pedal once going up that. I was
> impressed.

I'd love to see those pictures.


As for snow driving, we finally have some snow here to drive in!

-D

--
The righteous hate what is false,
but the wicked bring shame and disgrace.
Proverbs 13:5

www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ jabber: dman@dman13.dyndns.org