> No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round 90 degrees.
> It is a 1 for 1 pull.


So let me see if I get this straight. Each ****** block doubles the
pulling strength of the winch. So all I need to do then is buy a much
longer cable. If I could get, say, 200' of cable, and buy 4 ******
blocks, then I could run the cable around four different trees and
back to the jeep. This would make for a weird pentagon shaped cable
layout, but would also give me a total of 144,000 lbs of winching
strength. (4500lbs times 2 to the power of 5)

I would think this should be enough to pull any rig out, however
heavy or deeply sunk in the mud it is. Right?

 

Only use one tree, maybe plug in Jeep winching it's self out:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm Or give me a big enough lever
and I will lift the world.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> So let me see if I get this straight. Each ****** block doubles the
> pulling strength of the winch. So all I need to do then is buy a much
> longer cable. If I could get, say, 200' of cable, and buy 4 ******
> blocks, then I could run the cable around four different trees and
> back to the jeep. This would make for a weird pentagon shaped cable
> layout, but would also give me a total of 144,000 lbs of winching
> strength. (4500lbs times 2 to the power of 5)
>
> I would think this should be enough to pull any rig out, however
> heavy or deeply sunk in the mud it is. Right?

 

Only use one tree, maybe plug in Jeep winching it's self out:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm Or give me a big enough lever
and I will lift the world.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> So let me see if I get this straight. Each ****** block doubles the
> pulling strength of the winch. So all I need to do then is buy a much
> longer cable. If I could get, say, 200' of cable, and buy 4 ******
> blocks, then I could run the cable around four different trees and
> back to the jeep. This would make for a weird pentagon shaped cable
> layout, but would also give me a total of 144,000 lbs of winching
> strength. (4500lbs times 2 to the power of 5)
>
> I would think this should be enough to pull any rig out, however
> heavy or deeply sunk in the mud it is. Right?

 

"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20030908210204.29660.00000529@mb-m24.aol.com...
> In article <pG47b.4469$124.42209322@news-text.cableinet.net>, "Dave Milne"
> <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> writes:
>
> >Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be
desired.
> >
> >Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
> > |
> > |
> > Vehicle
> >
> >still maintain its 1 for 1.
> >
>
> Try this
>
> Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
> |
> |
> Winching Vehicle
>


Actually you want a connection like this

tree---------Stuck truck
\
\
\
winch


In the diagram you drew Matt, the stuck vehicle wouldn't go anywhere because
as it moved closer to the tree, it would also move further from the winch.
It might move along a diagonal path until there was a straight line between
the winch and the tree, but this is not a very efficient way to winch. In my
diagram, the tree can have a block and a shackle and the Stuck truck can
have a block. The cable route would be to the tree and through its block and
to the Stuck Truck and through its block and back to the tree and to its
shackle. the cable would double its pulling force on the Stuck Truck, but it
would pull at half speed. Of course, the tree could only have the block, and
the Stuck truck could have a shackle or simply a tow hook, then the cable
route would be to the tree and through the block to the Stuck Truck. The
winch would pull at its rated speed and capacity.

 

"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20030908210204.29660.00000529@mb-m24.aol.com...
> In article <pG47b.4469$124.42209322@news-text.cableinet.net>, "Dave Milne"
> <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> writes:
>
> >Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be
desired.
> >
> >Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
> > |
> > |
> > Vehicle
> >
> >still maintain its 1 for 1.
> >
>
> Try this
>
> Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
> |
> |
> Winching Vehicle
>


Actually you want a connection like this

tree---------Stuck truck
\
\
\
winch


In the diagram you drew Matt, the stuck vehicle wouldn't go anywhere because
as it moved closer to the tree, it would also move further from the winch.
It might move along a diagonal path until there was a straight line between
the winch and the tree, but this is not a very efficient way to winch. In my
diagram, the tree can have a block and a shackle and the Stuck truck can
have a block. The cable route would be to the tree and through its block and
to the Stuck Truck and through its block and back to the tree and to its
shackle. the cable would double its pulling force on the Stuck Truck, but it
would pull at half speed. Of course, the tree could only have the block, and
the Stuck truck could have a shackle or simply a tow hook, then the cable
route would be to the tree and through the block to the Stuck Truck. The
winch would pull at its rated speed and capacity.

 

You can test the angles and pull with a piece of string yourself.

Put a loop in one end of the string and hook it on your left hand or
finger. Then run it down under your foot and back to your right hand.

Now when you pull with your right hand and keep the left hand anchor
steady, you foot will move up towards you. If you move your right hand
one foot up, your foot will only move 6".

Then hook the end loop on your toe and run the string around your left
hand to your right.

Then when you pull 1', your foot moves 1'.

Mike

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> I guess we aren't going to agree on this. Got an email from Ramsey however
> saying they agree with me and will change the video voice over.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F5DE345.FF525C47@sympatico.ca...
> : No, I would start moving at half the speed you were reeling it in or a
> : little less, depends on how acute the triangle is.
> :
> : You would be the winch and Bill the tree.
> :
> : Mike
> :
> : Dave Milne wrote:
> : >
> : > If you, me and Bill 3 stand in a triangle, and I hold one end of a bit
> of
> : > string, you grab the middle hold it loosely letting it flow through your
> : > fingers, and we tie the other end to Bill 3, are you suggesting that if
> I
> : > start reeling in the rope I will start moving at 1/2 speed ?
> : >
> : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> : >
> : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : > news:3F5CEEC1.13A535E2@sympatico.ca...
> : > : The tree and the winch are stationary.
> : > :
> : > : Same deal as if you just looped the cable back to the winch.
> : > :
> : > : With the pulley in the middle, it becomes 2:1.
> : > :
> : > : Now if the pulley block was on the tree, then it would be a straight
> : > : angle changer like I thought I read.
> : > :
> : > : Mike
> : > :
> : > : Dave Milne wrote:
> : > : >
> : > : > Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be
> : > desired.
> : > : >
> : > : > Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
> : > : > |
> : > : > |
> : > : > Vehicle
> : > : >
> : > : > still maintain its 1 for 1.
> : > : >
> : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> : > : >
> : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : > : > news:3F5C8423.17C2370F@sympatico.ca...
> : > : > : You are correct Bill, I just read the original statement again.
> : > : > :
> : > : > : The winch went to a ****** block on the stuck vehicle, then to a
> tree
> : > : > : which gives at least a 2:1 pull if the tree is beside the winch.
> : > : > :
> : > : > : Mike
> : > : > :
> : > : > : "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> : > : > : >
> : > : > : > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> : > : > : > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> : > : > : > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> : > : > : > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> : > : > : >
> : > : > : > Mike Romain wrote:
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle
> with
> : > the
> : > : > line
> : > : > : > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > Think block and tackle....
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift
> easily,
> : > but
> : > : > : > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit,
> not
> : > just
> : > : > an
> : > : > : > > angle changer.
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > Mike
> : > : > : > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> : > : > : > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

You can test the angles and pull with a piece of string yourself.

Put a loop in one end of the string and hook it on your left hand or
finger. Then run it down under your foot and back to your right hand.

Now when you pull with your right hand and keep the left hand anchor
steady, you foot will move up towards you. If you move your right hand
one foot up, your foot will only move 6".

Then hook the end loop on your toe and run the string around your left
hand to your right.

Then when you pull 1', your foot moves 1'.

Mike

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> I guess we aren't going to agree on this. Got an email from Ramsey however
> saying they agree with me and will change the video voice over.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F5DE345.FF525C47@sympatico.ca...
> : No, I would start moving at half the speed you were reeling it in or a
> : little less, depends on how acute the triangle is.
> :
> : You would be the winch and Bill the tree.
> :
> : Mike
> :
> : Dave Milne wrote:
> : >
> : > If you, me and Bill 3 stand in a triangle, and I hold one end of a bit
> of
> : > string, you grab the middle hold it loosely letting it flow through your
> : > fingers, and we tie the other end to Bill 3, are you suggesting that if
> I
> : > start reeling in the rope I will start moving at 1/2 speed ?
> : >
> : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> : >
> : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : > news:3F5CEEC1.13A535E2@sympatico.ca...
> : > : The tree and the winch are stationary.
> : > :
> : > : Same deal as if you just looped the cable back to the winch.
> : > :
> : > : With the pulley in the middle, it becomes 2:1.
> : > :
> : > : Now if the pulley block was on the tree, then it would be a straight
> : > : angle changer like I thought I read.
> : > :
> : > : Mike
> : > :
> : > : Dave Milne wrote:
> : > : >
> : > : > Ah, see the confusion now - sorry, my text art left something to be
> : > desired.
> : > : >
> : > : > Tree ----------- Vehicle + s/block
> : > : > |
> : > : > |
> : > : > Vehicle
> : > : >
> : > : > still maintain its 1 for 1.
> : > : >
> : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> : > : >
> : > : > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : > : > news:3F5C8423.17C2370F@sympatico.ca...
> : > : > : You are correct Bill, I just read the original statement again.
> : > : > :
> : > : > : The winch went to a ****** block on the stuck vehicle, then to a
> tree
> : > : > : which gives at least a 2:1 pull if the tree is beside the winch.
> : > : > :
> : > : > : Mike
> : > : > :
> : > : > : "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> : > : > : >
> : > : > : > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> : > : > : > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> : > : > : > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> : > : > : > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> : > : > : >
> : > : > : > Mike Romain wrote:
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle
> with
> : > the
> : > : > line
> : > : > : > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > Think block and tackle....
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift
> easily,
> : > but
> : > : > : > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit,
> not
> : > just
> : > : > an
> : > : > : > > angle changer.
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > Mike
> : > : > : > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> : > : > : > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> > Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
> > |
> > |
> > Winching Vehicle
> >
>
> Couldn't you get more pulling strength by putting the stuck vehicle
> with the winch at the end of the cable and the tree at the other, and
> then running the cable from the jeep to the tree several times? For
> each loop you make, you're going to halve the speed and double the
> power.

That's correct and an odd ball pull like described usually doesn't
happen unless you need serious power like the 2:1 it gives and a
different angle than the tow vehicle is on or a tree can get you
directly.

I like doing that the opposite, use the pulley block on the tree and
just go 1:1 for a pull in the direction of the tree.

It is still good to keep in mind for that next odd ball angle pull you
need.

I don't think the winch cables or pulleys are rated for a 2 pulley 4:1
pull or more, something will likely give.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> > Tree ----------- Stuck vehicle + s/block
> > |
> > |
> > Winching Vehicle
> >
>
> Couldn't you get more pulling strength by putting the stuck vehicle
> with the winch at the end of the cable and the tree at the other, and
> then running the cable from the jeep to the tree several times? For
> each loop you make, you're going to halve the speed and double the
> power.

That's correct and an odd ball pull like described usually doesn't
happen unless you need serious power like the 2:1 it gives and a
different angle than the tow vehicle is on or a tree can get you
directly.

I like doing that the opposite, use the pulley block on the tree and
just go 1:1 for a pull in the direction of the tree.

It is still good to keep in mind for that next odd ball angle pull you
need.

I don't think the winch cables or pulleys are rated for a 2 pulley 4:1
pull or more, something will likely give.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> > No it wouldn't !! The snatchblock simply routes the pulley round 90 degrees.
> > It is a 1 for 1 pull.
>
> So let me see if I get this straight. Each ****** block doubles the
> pulling strength of the winch. So all I need to do then is buy a much
> longer cable. If I could get, say, 200' of cable, and buy 4 ******
> blocks, then I could run the cable around four different trees and
> back to the jeep. This would make for a weird pentagon shaped cable
> layout, but would also give me a total of 144,000 lbs of winching
> strength. (4500lbs times 2 to the power of 5)
>
> I would think this should be enough to pull any rig out, however
> heavy or deeply sunk in the mud it is. Right?


Yes, but you just use one tree and get a block and tackle setup.

Your way would only get you 2:1.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's