Re: Superwinch = junk
09-07-2003, 02:26 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
In article <3f67b03f.77074050@news.west.earthlink.net>, David Harmon
<source@netcom.com> writes:
>>I note that the Ramsey video went to another vehicle with a ****** block,
>>then terminated at a tree ( the "three point recovery") and then claimed
>>that this
>>doubled the pulling power - it didn't obviously as it didn't loop back to
>>either
>>the other vehicle or the vehicle with the winch..
>
>OK, I didn't see the video, but what multiplier of pulling power
>do you think they achieved if it is so obviously not double?
One.
>How many feet of winch cable do they need to wind in in order to
>move the load by one foot?
One foot, if the line wasn't doubled back to the vehicle. If it was, they'd
need two feet of line to move the load one foot. Similar to a reduction gear
with a 2:1 ratio.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
<source@netcom.com> writes:
>>I note that the Ramsey video went to another vehicle with a ****** block,
>>then terminated at a tree ( the "three point recovery") and then claimed
>>that this
>>doubled the pulling power - it didn't obviously as it didn't loop back to
>>either
>>the other vehicle or the vehicle with the winch..
>
>OK, I didn't see the video, but what multiplier of pulling power
>do you think they achieved if it is so obviously not double?
One.
>How many feet of winch cable do they need to wind in in order to
>move the load by one foot?
One foot, if the line wasn't doubled back to the vehicle. If it was, they'd
need two feet of line to move the load one foot. Similar to a reduction gear
with a 2:1 ratio.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
09-07-2003, 03:02 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the line
going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
Think block and tackle....
The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just an
angle changer.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> In article <3f67b03f.77074050@news.west.earthlink.net>, David Harmon
> <source@netcom.com> writes:
>
> >>I note that the Ramsey video went to another vehicle with a ****** block,
> >>then terminated at a tree ( the "three point recovery") and then claimed
> >>that this
> >>doubled the pulling power - it didn't obviously as it didn't loop back to
> >>either
> >>the other vehicle or the vehicle with the winch..
> >
> >OK, I didn't see the video, but what multiplier of pulling power
> >do you think they achieved if it is so obviously not double?
>
> One.
>
> >How many feet of winch cable do they need to wind in in order to
> >move the load by one foot?
>
> One foot, if the line wasn't doubled back to the vehicle. If it was, they'd
> need two feet of line to move the load one foot. Similar to a reduction gear
> with a 2:1 ratio.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
Think block and tackle....
The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just an
angle changer.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> In article <3f67b03f.77074050@news.west.earthlink.net>, David Harmon
> <source@netcom.com> writes:
>
> >>I note that the Ramsey video went to another vehicle with a ****** block,
> >>then terminated at a tree ( the "three point recovery") and then claimed
> >>that this
> >>doubled the pulling power - it didn't obviously as it didn't loop back to
> >>either
> >>the other vehicle or the vehicle with the winch..
> >
> >OK, I didn't see the video, but what multiplier of pulling power
> >do you think they achieved if it is so obviously not double?
>
> One.
>
> >How many feet of winch cable do they need to wind in in order to
> >move the load by one foot?
>
> One foot, if the line wasn't doubled back to the vehicle. If it was, they'd
> need two feet of line to move the load one foot. Similar to a reduction gear
> with a 2:1 ratio.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
09-07-2003, 03:02 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the line
going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
Think block and tackle....
The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just an
angle changer.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> In article <3f67b03f.77074050@news.west.earthlink.net>, David Harmon
> <source@netcom.com> writes:
>
> >>I note that the Ramsey video went to another vehicle with a ****** block,
> >>then terminated at a tree ( the "three point recovery") and then claimed
> >>that this
> >>doubled the pulling power - it didn't obviously as it didn't loop back to
> >>either
> >>the other vehicle or the vehicle with the winch..
> >
> >OK, I didn't see the video, but what multiplier of pulling power
> >do you think they achieved if it is so obviously not double?
>
> One.
>
> >How many feet of winch cable do they need to wind in in order to
> >move the load by one foot?
>
> One foot, if the line wasn't doubled back to the vehicle. If it was, they'd
> need two feet of line to move the load one foot. Similar to a reduction gear
> with a 2:1 ratio.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
Think block and tackle....
The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just an
angle changer.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> In article <3f67b03f.77074050@news.west.earthlink.net>, David Harmon
> <source@netcom.com> writes:
>
> >>I note that the Ramsey video went to another vehicle with a ****** block,
> >>then terminated at a tree ( the "three point recovery") and then claimed
> >>that this
> >>doubled the pulling power - it didn't obviously as it didn't loop back to
> >>either
> >>the other vehicle or the vehicle with the winch..
> >
> >OK, I didn't see the video, but what multiplier of pulling power
> >do you think they achieved if it is so obviously not double?
>
> One.
>
> >How many feet of winch cable do they need to wind in in order to
> >move the load by one foot?
>
> One foot, if the line wasn't doubled back to the vehicle. If it was, they'd
> need two feet of line to move the load one foot. Similar to a reduction gear
> with a 2:1 ratio.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
09-07-2003, 04:48 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Huh???
The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
blocks will still be 1:1.
Mike
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> The second ****** block would be 4:1
> http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the line
> > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> >
> > Think block and tackle....
> >
> > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
> > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just an
> > angle changer.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
blocks will still be 1:1.
Mike
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> The second ****** block would be 4:1
> http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the line
> > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> >
> > Think block and tackle....
> >
> > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
> > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just an
> > angle changer.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
09-07-2003, 04:48 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Huh???
The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
blocks will still be 1:1.
Mike
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> The second ****** block would be 4:1
> http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the line
> > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> >
> > Think block and tackle....
> >
> > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
> > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just an
> > angle changer.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
blocks will still be 1:1.
Mike
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> The second ****** block would be 4:1
> http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the line
> > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> >
> > Think block and tackle....
> >
> > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
> > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just an
> > angle changer.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
09-07-2003, 05:02 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
exactly !
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: Huh???
:
: The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
: them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
: blocks will still be 1:1.
:
: Mike
:
: "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: >
: > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: >
: > Mike Romain wrote:
: > >
: > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
line
: > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > >
: > > Think block and tackle....
: > >
: > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
: > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
an
: > > angle changer.
: > >
: > > Mike
: > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: Huh???
:
: The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
: them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
: blocks will still be 1:1.
:
: Mike
:
: "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: >
: > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: >
: > Mike Romain wrote:
: > >
: > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
line
: > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > >
: > > Think block and tackle....
: > >
: > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
: > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
an
: > > angle changer.
: > >
: > > Mike
: > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
09-07-2003, 05:02 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
exactly !
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: Huh???
:
: The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
: them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
: blocks will still be 1:1.
:
: Mike
:
: "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: >
: > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: >
: > Mike Romain wrote:
: > >
: > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
line
: > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > >
: > > Think block and tackle....
: > >
: > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
: > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
an
: > > angle changer.
: > >
: > > Mike
: > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
: Huh???
:
: The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
: them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
: blocks will still be 1:1.
:
: Mike
:
: "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
: >
: > The second ****** block would be 4:1
: > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
: > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
: > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
: >
: > Mike Romain wrote:
: > >
: > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
line
: > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
: > >
: > > Think block and tackle....
: > >
: > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
: > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
an
: > > angle changer.
: > >
: > > Mike
: > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
09-08-2003, 12:16 AM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the driving force
(truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the force, since it is
going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block, then to another
tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then, and only then
would it be a 1:1 ratio.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> Huh???
>
> The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
> them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
> blocks will still be 1:1.
>
> Mike
>
> "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> >
> > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
line
> > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> > >
> > > Think block and tackle....
> > >
> > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
> > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
an
> > > angle changer.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
(truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the force, since it is
going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block, then to another
tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then, and only then
would it be a 1:1 ratio.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> Huh???
>
> The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
> them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
> blocks will still be 1:1.
>
> Mike
>
> "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> >
> > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
line
> > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> > >
> > > Think block and tackle....
> > >
> > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
> > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
an
> > > angle changer.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
09-08-2003, 12:16 AM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
it's a 2:1 ratio, since the cable is hooked back on the driving force
(truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the force, since it is
going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block, then to another
tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then, and only then
would it be a 1:1 ratio.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> Huh???
>
> The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
> them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
> blocks will still be 1:1.
>
> Mike
>
> "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> >
> > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
line
> > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> > >
> > > Think block and tackle....
> > >
> > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
> > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
an
> > > angle changer.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
(truck) the ****** block is not a simple re-vector of the force, since it is
going back to the truck. If the cable went though the block, then to another
tree it would be acting as a force vectoring point. Then, and only then
would it be a 1:1 ratio.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F5B99AC.8EE60474@sympatico.ca...
> Huh???
>
> The first ****** block is just an angle changer, you can have twenty of
> them, but if the end of the cable doesn't hook back on itself, the 20
> blocks will still be 1:1.
>
> Mike
>
> "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> >
> > The second ****** block would be 4:1
> > http://www.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > If they had a second ****** block on the recovered vehicle with the
line
> > > going back to the tree, then they would have a 2:1 ratio.
> > >
> > > Think block and tackle....
> > >
> > > The more pulleys, the more reduction and more you can lift easily, but
> > > you have to have the pulley as an other end of the circuit, not just
an
> > > angle changer.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
09-08-2003, 01:25 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Superwinch = junk
Just remember you're using twice the force to pull out the tree.
;-)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I was thinking I needed it for the angle pulls actually.
>
> We wheel on narrow trails and there have been a few times where someone
> has gone off the side and I can't get a straight pull on them. If I had
> a ****** block, I could angle off a tree or another Jeep to get the
> right angle to get them out.
>
> Mike
;-)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I was thinking I needed it for the angle pulls actually.
>
> We wheel on narrow trails and there have been a few times where someone
> has gone off the side and I can't get a straight pull on them. If I had
> a ****** block, I could angle off a tree or another Jeep to get the
> right angle to get them out.
>
> Mike