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Re: Pinion angle
> One other question: How bad is it to weld and reweld on axle tubes?
> Here we are talking about removing the factory-attached perches (first > welding), welding perches in a position suitable for the pre-lift > installation (second welding), removing these perches at a later time, > and welding perches in a new position suitable for the lifted jeep > (third welding). That is a lot of welding, will it harm the tubes, > make them brittle? > > Thanks > The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting weaker. As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how much lift you plan to install in the future. 2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you install the lift. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On Sat, 12 May 2007 02:45:49 +0300, "Bill Spiliotopoulos"
<vspili@yahoo.com> wrote: >The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the >axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld >cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds >must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. >Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before >welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. >Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and >avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches >were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. >If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting >weaker. This is good advise. You are more likely to overheat tube cutting perches off if not done correctly. You want a very hot flame with plenty of oxygen flow when you "cut" with a torch and get job done as quickly as possible. I would cut parallel to tubes with torch and get perchs off and firgure on replacing perches so that you do not have to heat tube much cutting them off. Grind tube after it cools if you need a better contact surface before rewelding them on. > >As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how >much lift you plan to install in the future. >2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would >require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. Agreed > >However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a >new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much >better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any >complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as >close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you >install the lift. Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not be a issue at all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On Sat, 12 May 2007 02:45:49 +0300, "Bill Spiliotopoulos"
<vspili@yahoo.com> wrote: >The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the >axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld >cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds >must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. >Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before >welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. >Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and >avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches >were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. >If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting >weaker. This is good advise. You are more likely to overheat tube cutting perches off if not done correctly. You want a very hot flame with plenty of oxygen flow when you "cut" with a torch and get job done as quickly as possible. I would cut parallel to tubes with torch and get perchs off and firgure on replacing perches so that you do not have to heat tube much cutting them off. Grind tube after it cools if you need a better contact surface before rewelding them on. > >As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how >much lift you plan to install in the future. >2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would >require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. Agreed > >However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a >new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much >better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any >complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as >close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you >install the lift. Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not be a issue at all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On Sat, 12 May 2007 02:45:49 +0300, "Bill Spiliotopoulos"
<vspili@yahoo.com> wrote: >The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the >axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld >cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds >must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. >Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before >welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. >Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and >avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches >were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. >If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting >weaker. This is good advise. You are more likely to overheat tube cutting perches off if not done correctly. You want a very hot flame with plenty of oxygen flow when you "cut" with a torch and get job done as quickly as possible. I would cut parallel to tubes with torch and get perchs off and firgure on replacing perches so that you do not have to heat tube much cutting them off. Grind tube after it cools if you need a better contact surface before rewelding them on. > >As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how >much lift you plan to install in the future. >2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would >require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. Agreed > >However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a >new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much >better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any >complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as >close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you >install the lift. Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not be a issue at all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On Sat, 12 May 2007 02:45:49 +0300, "Bill Spiliotopoulos"
<vspili@yahoo.com> wrote: >The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the >axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld >cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds >must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. >Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before >welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. >Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and >avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches >were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. >If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting >weaker. This is good advise. You are more likely to overheat tube cutting perches off if not done correctly. You want a very hot flame with plenty of oxygen flow when you "cut" with a torch and get job done as quickly as possible. I would cut parallel to tubes with torch and get perchs off and firgure on replacing perches so that you do not have to heat tube much cutting them off. Grind tube after it cools if you need a better contact surface before rewelding them on. > >As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how >much lift you plan to install in the future. >2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would >require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. Agreed > >However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a >new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much >better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any >complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as >close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you >install the lift. Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not be a issue at all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Pinion angle
With a SYE and CV shaft, pinion should be pointed at the T-case output minus
1-2 degrees to account for axle wrap. The lower u-joint should be nearly straight, with all the angle taken up by the CV part of the new driveshaft. HTH Carl "nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1178906375.283917.287930@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com... > > > I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > Two options: > > 1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > each other? > > 2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > lift is in place? > > My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > option to choose? > > Thanks > |
Re: Pinion angle
With a SYE and CV shaft, pinion should be pointed at the T-case output minus
1-2 degrees to account for axle wrap. The lower u-joint should be nearly straight, with all the angle taken up by the CV part of the new driveshaft. HTH Carl "nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1178906375.283917.287930@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com... > > > I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > Two options: > > 1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > each other? > > 2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > lift is in place? > > My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > option to choose? > > Thanks > |
Re: Pinion angle
With a SYE and CV shaft, pinion should be pointed at the T-case output minus
1-2 degrees to account for axle wrap. The lower u-joint should be nearly straight, with all the angle taken up by the CV part of the new driveshaft. HTH Carl "nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1178906375.283917.287930@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com... > > > I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > Two options: > > 1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > each other? > > 2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > lift is in place? > > My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > option to choose? > > Thanks > |
Re: Pinion angle
With a SYE and CV shaft, pinion should be pointed at the T-case output minus
1-2 degrees to account for axle wrap. The lower u-joint should be nearly straight, with all the angle taken up by the CV part of the new driveshaft. HTH Carl "nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1178906375.283917.287930@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com... > > > I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > Two options: > > 1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > each other? > > 2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > lift is in place? > > My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > option to choose? > > Thanks > |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes
> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not > be a issue at all. I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for a Wrangler. The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. |
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