Pinion angle
 

I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way
to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock
drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint
cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift
the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only.

Two options:

1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after
the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to
each other?

2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with
some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to
lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the
lift is in place?

My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best
option to choose?

Thanks

Re: Pinion angle
 

On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way
>to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock
>drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint
>cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift
>the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only.
>
>Two options:
>
>1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after
>the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to
>each other?

SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be
equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive
angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it.

>
>2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with
>some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to
>lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the
>lift is in place?

CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front
pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and
can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only
proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes.

>
>My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best
>option to choose?
>
>Thanks
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Re: Pinion angle
 

On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way
>to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock
>drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint
>cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift
>the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only.
>
>Two options:
>
>1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after
>the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to
>each other?

SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be
equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive
angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it.

>
>2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with
>some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to
>lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the
>lift is in place?

CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front
pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and
can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only
proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes.

>
>My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best
>option to choose?
>
>Thanks
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Re: Pinion angle
 

On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way
>to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock
>drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint
>cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift
>the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only.
>
>Two options:
>
>1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after
>the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to
>each other?

SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be
equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive
angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it.

>
>2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with
>some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to
>lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the
>lift is in place?

CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front
pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and
can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only
proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes.

>
>My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best
>option to choose?
>
>Thanks
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Re: Pinion angle
 

On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way
>to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock
>drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint
>cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift
>the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only.
>
>Two options:
>
>1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after
>the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to
>each other?

SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be
equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive
angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it.

>
>2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with
>some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to
>lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the
>lift is in place?

CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front
pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and
can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only
proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes.

>
>My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best
>option to choose?
>
>Thanks
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Re: Pinion angle
 

On May 11, 3:37 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way
> >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock
> >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint
> >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift
> >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only.
>
> >Two options:
>
> >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after
> >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to
> >each other?
>
> SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be
> equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive
> angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it.
>
>
>
> >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with
> >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to
> >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the
> >lift is in place?
>
> CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front
> pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and
> can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only
> proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes.
>
>
>
> >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best
> >option to choose?
>
> >Thanks
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that
my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK.
Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring
perches.

Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel
to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would
be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used,
keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel.

Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a
few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to
parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be
shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would
be used along with a SYE.

Re: Pinion angle
 

On May 11, 3:37 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way
> >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock
> >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint
> >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift
> >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only.
>
> >Two options:
>
> >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after
> >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to
> >each other?
>
> SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be
> equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive
> angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it.
>
>
>
> >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with
> >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to
> >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the
> >lift is in place?
>
> CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front
> pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and
> can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only
> proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes.
>
>
>
> >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best
> >option to choose?
>
> >Thanks
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that
my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK.
Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring
perches.

Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel
to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would
be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used,
keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel.

Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a
few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to
parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be
shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would
be used along with a SYE.

Re: Pinion angle
 

On May 11, 3:37 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way
> >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock
> >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint
> >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift
> >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only.
>
> >Two options:
>
> >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after
> >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to
> >each other?
>
> SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be
> equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive
> angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it.
>
>
>
> >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with
> >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to
> >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the
> >lift is in place?
>
> CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front
> pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and
> can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only
> proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes.
>
>
>
> >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best
> >option to choose?
>
> >Thanks
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that
my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK.
Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring
perches.

Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel
to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would
be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used,
keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel.

Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a
few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to
parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be
shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would
be used along with a SYE.

Re: Pinion angle
 

On May 11, 3:37 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way
> >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock
> >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint
> >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift
> >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only.
>
> >Two options:
>
> >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after
> >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to
> >each other?
>
> SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be
> equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive
> angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it.
>
>
>
> >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with
> >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to
> >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the
> >lift is in place?
>
> CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front
> pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and
> can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only
> proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes.
>
>
>
> >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best
> >option to choose?
>
> >Thanks
>
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that
my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK.
Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring
perches.

Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel
to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would
be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used,
keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel.

Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a
few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to
parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be
shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would
be used along with a SYE.

Re: Re: Pinion angle
 

On 11 May 2007 14:33:50 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that
>my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK.
>Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring
>perches.
>
>Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel
>to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would
>be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used,
>keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel.

SOmething to remember here that many overlook when setting angle.
While you are on the right track here setting equal oppsite angle
(which I assume you are trying to say with your parrallel term) you
want to set the rear pinion a few extra degres down. The reason for
this is that under load, the torque on wheels caused axle housing to
wrap up a bit in springs changing the angle. This is a normal reaction
and the amout od wrapup depends on tirres size and spring stiffness
but it does occur.

>
>Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a
>few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to
>parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be
>shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would
>be used along with a SYE.


You have four options here, The first is to use regular Ujoints at
eithe end with yoke phased 90 degrees apart and have equal opposit
angle as stated above. The second one is to align the driveshaft
parallel to Tcase outputshaft (which may not be practical) and use a
CV on rear axle pinion flange. The third is to align the static drive
shaft angle with perch welding or shims (with a few extra degrees of
down tilt for torque reaction) and install a CV on Tcase output yoke.
(this is more viable) and the forth choice is to use CV's on both
ends of drive shaft and set rear axle pinion up some for clearance but
not too far top compromise oiling of pinion bearings. When you doe
raise pinion up a lot (say more than 10 degrees or so from level) you
want to increase the lube level in rear axle a bit so that pinion
bearing are properly lubed and cooled as all times. Off all four, the
last will be the most relaible with first least reliable because even
if you get angles right to cancel out velocity variations that cause
vibration as Ujoint flex, the torque capacity of the joint decrease as
angle increases and it will wear a lot out sooner. The second and
third choice would have a lot better joint life and the forth the
longest. I hope I did not muddy the water too much for you.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com