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Pinion angle
I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. Two options: 1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to each other? 2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the lift is in place? My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best option to choose? Thanks |
Re: Pinion angle
On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > >Two options: > >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to >each other? SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it. > >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the >lift is in place? CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes. > >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best >option to choose? > >Thanks ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Pinion angle
On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > >Two options: > >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to >each other? SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it. > >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the >lift is in place? CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes. > >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best >option to choose? > >Thanks ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Pinion angle
On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > >Two options: > >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to >each other? SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it. > >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the >lift is in place? CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes. > >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best >option to choose? > >Thanks ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Pinion angle
On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > >Two options: > >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to >each other? SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it. > >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the >lift is in place? CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes. > >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best >option to choose? > >Thanks ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Pinion angle
On May 11, 3:37 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > >Two options: > > >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > >each other? > > SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be > equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive > angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it. > > > > >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > >lift is in place? > > CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front > pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and > can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only > proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes. > > > > >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > >option to choose? > > >Thanks > > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring perches. Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would be used along with a SYE. |
Re: Pinion angle
On May 11, 3:37 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > >Two options: > > >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > >each other? > > SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be > equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive > angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it. > > > > >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > >lift is in place? > > CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front > pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and > can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only > proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes. > > > > >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > >option to choose? > > >Thanks > > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring perches. Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would be used along with a SYE. |
Re: Pinion angle
On May 11, 3:37 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > >Two options: > > >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > >each other? > > SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be > equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive > angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it. > > > > >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > >lift is in place? > > CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front > pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and > can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only > proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes. > > > > >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > >option to choose? > > >Thanks > > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring perches. Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would be used along with a SYE. |
Re: Pinion angle
On May 11, 3:37 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 10:59:35 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > >I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > >to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > >drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > >cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > >the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > >Two options: > > >1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > >the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > >each other? > > SHort driveshafts do not take to lifts well. You want the angles to be > equal oposites of one another so they cancle out at reasonable drive > angles. If they are not equal, vibration can set it. > > > > >2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > >some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > >lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > >lift is in place? > > CV's is the best bet here. YOU DO NOT want to raise pinion on front > pig with shims and this will throw off caster angle on front axle and > can create serious stabilty issues (Death Wooble for one). The only > proper way to raise pinion on front axle is to cut and reweld tubes. > > > > >My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > >option to choose? > > >Thanks > > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring perches. Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would be used along with a SYE. |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On 11 May 2007 14:33:50 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that >my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. >Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring >perches. > >Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel >to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would >be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, >keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. SOmething to remember here that many overlook when setting angle. While you are on the right track here setting equal oppsite angle (which I assume you are trying to say with your parrallel term) you want to set the rear pinion a few extra degres down. The reason for this is that under load, the torque on wheels caused axle housing to wrap up a bit in springs changing the angle. This is a normal reaction and the amout od wrapup depends on tirres size and spring stiffness but it does occur. > >Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a >few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to >parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be >shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would >be used along with a SYE. You have four options here, The first is to use regular Ujoints at eithe end with yoke phased 90 degrees apart and have equal opposit angle as stated above. The second one is to align the driveshaft parallel to Tcase outputshaft (which may not be practical) and use a CV on rear axle pinion flange. The third is to align the static drive shaft angle with perch welding or shims (with a few extra degrees of down tilt for torque reaction) and install a CV on Tcase output yoke. (this is more viable) and the forth choice is to use CV's on both ends of drive shaft and set rear axle pinion up some for clearance but not too far top compromise oiling of pinion bearings. When you doe raise pinion up a lot (say more than 10 degrees or so from level) you want to increase the lube level in rear axle a bit so that pinion bearing are properly lubed and cooled as all times. Off all four, the last will be the most relaible with first least reliable because even if you get angles right to cancel out velocity variations that cause vibration as Ujoint flex, the torque capacity of the joint decrease as angle increases and it will wear a lot out sooner. The second and third choice would have a lot better joint life and the forth the longest. I hope I did not muddy the water too much for you. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On 11 May 2007 14:33:50 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that >my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. >Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring >perches. > >Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel >to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would >be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, >keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. SOmething to remember here that many overlook when setting angle. While you are on the right track here setting equal oppsite angle (which I assume you are trying to say with your parrallel term) you want to set the rear pinion a few extra degres down. The reason for this is that under load, the torque on wheels caused axle housing to wrap up a bit in springs changing the angle. This is a normal reaction and the amout od wrapup depends on tirres size and spring stiffness but it does occur. > >Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a >few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to >parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be >shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would >be used along with a SYE. You have four options here, The first is to use regular Ujoints at eithe end with yoke phased 90 degrees apart and have equal opposit angle as stated above. The second one is to align the driveshaft parallel to Tcase outputshaft (which may not be practical) and use a CV on rear axle pinion flange. The third is to align the static drive shaft angle with perch welding or shims (with a few extra degrees of down tilt for torque reaction) and install a CV on Tcase output yoke. (this is more viable) and the forth choice is to use CV's on both ends of drive shaft and set rear axle pinion up some for clearance but not too far top compromise oiling of pinion bearings. When you doe raise pinion up a lot (say more than 10 degrees or so from level) you want to increase the lube level in rear axle a bit so that pinion bearing are properly lubed and cooled as all times. Off all four, the last will be the most relaible with first least reliable because even if you get angles right to cancel out velocity variations that cause vibration as Ujoint flex, the torque capacity of the joint decrease as angle increases and it will wear a lot out sooner. The second and third choice would have a lot better joint life and the forth the longest. I hope I did not muddy the water too much for you. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On 11 May 2007 14:33:50 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that >my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. >Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring >perches. > >Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel >to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would >be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, >keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. SOmething to remember here that many overlook when setting angle. While you are on the right track here setting equal oppsite angle (which I assume you are trying to say with your parrallel term) you want to set the rear pinion a few extra degres down. The reason for this is that under load, the torque on wheels caused axle housing to wrap up a bit in springs changing the angle. This is a normal reaction and the amout od wrapup depends on tirres size and spring stiffness but it does occur. > >Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a >few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to >parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be >shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would >be used along with a SYE. You have four options here, The first is to use regular Ujoints at eithe end with yoke phased 90 degrees apart and have equal opposit angle as stated above. The second one is to align the driveshaft parallel to Tcase outputshaft (which may not be practical) and use a CV on rear axle pinion flange. The third is to align the static drive shaft angle with perch welding or shims (with a few extra degrees of down tilt for torque reaction) and install a CV on Tcase output yoke. (this is more viable) and the forth choice is to use CV's on both ends of drive shaft and set rear axle pinion up some for clearance but not too far top compromise oiling of pinion bearings. When you doe raise pinion up a lot (say more than 10 degrees or so from level) you want to increase the lube level in rear axle a bit so that pinion bearing are properly lubed and cooled as all times. Off all four, the last will be the most relaible with first least reliable because even if you get angles right to cancel out velocity variations that cause vibration as Ujoint flex, the torque capacity of the joint decrease as angle increases and it will wear a lot out sooner. The second and third choice would have a lot better joint life and the forth the longest. I hope I did not muddy the water too much for you. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On 11 May 2007 14:33:50 -0700, nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that >my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. >Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring >perches. > >Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel >to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would >be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, >keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. SOmething to remember here that many overlook when setting angle. While you are on the right track here setting equal oppsite angle (which I assume you are trying to say with your parrallel term) you want to set the rear pinion a few extra degres down. The reason for this is that under load, the torque on wheels caused axle housing to wrap up a bit in springs changing the angle. This is a normal reaction and the amout od wrapup depends on tirres size and spring stiffness but it does occur. > >Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a >few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to >parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be >shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would >be used along with a SYE. You have four options here, The first is to use regular Ujoints at eithe end with yoke phased 90 degrees apart and have equal opposit angle as stated above. The second one is to align the driveshaft parallel to Tcase outputshaft (which may not be practical) and use a CV on rear axle pinion flange. The third is to align the static drive shaft angle with perch welding or shims (with a few extra degrees of down tilt for torque reaction) and install a CV on Tcase output yoke. (this is more viable) and the forth choice is to use CV's on both ends of drive shaft and set rear axle pinion up some for clearance but not too far top compromise oiling of pinion bearings. When you doe raise pinion up a lot (say more than 10 degrees or so from level) you want to increase the lube level in rear axle a bit so that pinion bearing are properly lubed and cooled as all times. Off all four, the last will be the most relaible with first least reliable because even if you get angles right to cancel out velocity variations that cause vibration as Ujoint flex, the torque capacity of the joint decrease as angle increases and it will wear a lot out sooner. The second and third choice would have a lot better joint life and the forth the longest. I hope I did not muddy the water too much for you. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Pinion angle
On May 11, 5:05 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 14:33:50 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that > >my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. > >Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring > >perches. > > >Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel > >to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would > >be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, > >keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. > > SOmething to remember here that many overlook when setting angle. > While you are on the right track here setting equal oppsite angle > (which I assume you are trying to say with your parrallel term) you > want to set the rear pinion a few extra degres down. The reason for > this is that under load, the torque on wheels caused axle housing to > wrap up a bit in springs changing the angle. This is a normal reaction > and the amout od wrapup depends on tirres size and spring stiffness > but it does occur. > > > > >Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a > >few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to > >parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be > >shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would > >be used along with a SYE. > > You have four options here, The first is to use regular Ujoints at > eithe end with yoke phased 90 degrees apart and have equal opposit > angle as stated above. The second one is to align the driveshaft > parallel to Tcase outputshaft (which may not be practical) and use a > CV on rear axle pinion flange. The third is to align the static drive > shaft angle with perch welding or shims (with a few extra degrees of > down tilt for torque reaction) and install a CV on Tcase output yoke. > (this is more viable) and the forth choice is to use CV's on both > ends of drive shaft and set rear axle pinion up some for clearance but > not too far top compromise oiling of pinion bearings. When you doe > raise pinion up a lot (say more than 10 degrees or so from level) you > want to increase the lube level in rear axle a bit so that pinion > bearing are properly lubed and cooled as all times. Off all four, the > last will be the most relaible with first least reliable because even > if you get angles right to cancel out velocity variations that cause > vibration as Ujoint flex, the torque capacity of the joint decrease as > angle increases and it will wear a lot out sooner. The second and > third choice would have a lot better joint life and the forth the > longest. I hope I did not muddy the water too much for you. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Not muddy, makes sense. Thanks for the ideas. One other question: How bad is it to weld and reweld on axle tubes? Here we are talking about removing the factory-attached perches (first welding), welding perches in a position suitable for the pre-lift installation (second welding), removing these perches at a later time, and welding perches in a new position suitable for the lifted jeep (third welding). That is a lot of welding, will it harm the tubes, make them brittle? Thanks |
Re: Pinion angle
On May 11, 5:05 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 14:33:50 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that > >my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. > >Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring > >perches. > > >Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel > >to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would > >be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, > >keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. > > SOmething to remember here that many overlook when setting angle. > While you are on the right track here setting equal oppsite angle > (which I assume you are trying to say with your parrallel term) you > want to set the rear pinion a few extra degres down. The reason for > this is that under load, the torque on wheels caused axle housing to > wrap up a bit in springs changing the angle. This is a normal reaction > and the amout od wrapup depends on tirres size and spring stiffness > but it does occur. > > > > >Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a > >few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to > >parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be > >shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would > >be used along with a SYE. > > You have four options here, The first is to use regular Ujoints at > eithe end with yoke phased 90 degrees apart and have equal opposit > angle as stated above. The second one is to align the driveshaft > parallel to Tcase outputshaft (which may not be practical) and use a > CV on rear axle pinion flange. The third is to align the static drive > shaft angle with perch welding or shims (with a few extra degrees of > down tilt for torque reaction) and install a CV on Tcase output yoke. > (this is more viable) and the forth choice is to use CV's on both > ends of drive shaft and set rear axle pinion up some for clearance but > not too far top compromise oiling of pinion bearings. When you doe > raise pinion up a lot (say more than 10 degrees or so from level) you > want to increase the lube level in rear axle a bit so that pinion > bearing are properly lubed and cooled as all times. Off all four, the > last will be the most relaible with first least reliable because even > if you get angles right to cancel out velocity variations that cause > vibration as Ujoint flex, the torque capacity of the joint decrease as > angle increases and it will wear a lot out sooner. The second and > third choice would have a lot better joint life and the forth the > longest. I hope I did not muddy the water too much for you. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Not muddy, makes sense. Thanks for the ideas. One other question: How bad is it to weld and reweld on axle tubes? Here we are talking about removing the factory-attached perches (first welding), welding perches in a position suitable for the pre-lift installation (second welding), removing these perches at a later time, and welding perches in a new position suitable for the lifted jeep (third welding). That is a lot of welding, will it harm the tubes, make them brittle? Thanks |
Re: Pinion angle
On May 11, 5:05 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 14:33:50 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that > >my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. > >Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring > >perches. > > >Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel > >to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would > >be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, > >keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. > > SOmething to remember here that many overlook when setting angle. > While you are on the right track here setting equal oppsite angle > (which I assume you are trying to say with your parrallel term) you > want to set the rear pinion a few extra degres down. The reason for > this is that under load, the torque on wheels caused axle housing to > wrap up a bit in springs changing the angle. This is a normal reaction > and the amout od wrapup depends on tirres size and spring stiffness > but it does occur. > > > > >Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a > >few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to > >parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be > >shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would > >be used along with a SYE. > > You have four options here, The first is to use regular Ujoints at > eithe end with yoke phased 90 degrees apart and have equal opposit > angle as stated above. The second one is to align the driveshaft > parallel to Tcase outputshaft (which may not be practical) and use a > CV on rear axle pinion flange. The third is to align the static drive > shaft angle with perch welding or shims (with a few extra degrees of > down tilt for torque reaction) and install a CV on Tcase output yoke. > (this is more viable) and the forth choice is to use CV's on both > ends of drive shaft and set rear axle pinion up some for clearance but > not too far top compromise oiling of pinion bearings. When you doe > raise pinion up a lot (say more than 10 degrees or so from level) you > want to increase the lube level in rear axle a bit so that pinion > bearing are properly lubed and cooled as all times. Off all four, the > last will be the most relaible with first least reliable because even > if you get angles right to cancel out velocity variations that cause > vibration as Ujoint flex, the torque capacity of the joint decrease as > angle increases and it will wear a lot out sooner. The second and > third choice would have a lot better joint life and the forth the > longest. I hope I did not muddy the water too much for you. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Not muddy, makes sense. Thanks for the ideas. One other question: How bad is it to weld and reweld on axle tubes? Here we are talking about removing the factory-attached perches (first welding), welding perches in a position suitable for the pre-lift installation (second welding), removing these perches at a later time, and welding perches in a new position suitable for the lifted jeep (third welding). That is a lot of welding, will it harm the tubes, make them brittle? Thanks |
Re: Pinion angle
On May 11, 5:05 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote:
> On 11 May 2007 14:33:50 -0700, nrs <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >Thanks. My apologies for not explaining fully. I need to clarify that > >my question refers to the rear axle only, the front one will be OK. > >Also, mainly I'm trying to decide at what angle to weld on the spring > >perches. > > >Option 1 is to attach the perches so that the pinion angle is parallel > >to the floor, just like stock. Once the lift is in, the angles would > >be reduced by using a SYE and a single cardan DS would be used, > >keeping TC output and axle pinion parallel. > > SOmething to remember here that many overlook when setting angle. > While you are on the right track here setting equal oppsite angle > (which I assume you are trying to say with your parrallel term) you > want to set the rear pinion a few extra degres down. The reason for > this is that under load, the torque on wheels caused axle housing to > wrap up a bit in springs changing the angle. This is a normal reaction > and the amout od wrapup depends on tirres size and spring stiffness > but it does occur. > > > > >Option 2 is to attach the perches so that the pinion is rotated up a > >few degrees if installed without shims and perhaps shim it down to > >parallel until I get the 2.5 inch lift, at which point it would be > >shimmed to point up to the output of the TC and a CV driveshaft would > >be used along with a SYE. > > You have four options here, The first is to use regular Ujoints at > eithe end with yoke phased 90 degrees apart and have equal opposit > angle as stated above. The second one is to align the driveshaft > parallel to Tcase outputshaft (which may not be practical) and use a > CV on rear axle pinion flange. The third is to align the static drive > shaft angle with perch welding or shims (with a few extra degrees of > down tilt for torque reaction) and install a CV on Tcase output yoke. > (this is more viable) and the forth choice is to use CV's on both > ends of drive shaft and set rear axle pinion up some for clearance but > not too far top compromise oiling of pinion bearings. When you doe > raise pinion up a lot (say more than 10 degrees or so from level) you > want to increase the lube level in rear axle a bit so that pinion > bearing are properly lubed and cooled as all times. Off all four, the > last will be the most relaible with first least reliable because even > if you get angles right to cancel out velocity variations that cause > vibration as Ujoint flex, the torque capacity of the joint decrease as > angle increases and it will wear a lot out sooner. The second and > third choice would have a lot better joint life and the forth the > longest. I hope I did not muddy the water too much for you. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Not muddy, makes sense. Thanks for the ideas. One other question: How bad is it to weld and reweld on axle tubes? Here we are talking about removing the factory-attached perches (first welding), welding perches in a position suitable for the pre-lift installation (second welding), removing these perches at a later time, and welding perches in a new position suitable for the lifted jeep (third welding). That is a lot of welding, will it harm the tubes, make them brittle? Thanks |
Re: Pinion angle
> One other question: How bad is it to weld and reweld on axle tubes?
> Here we are talking about removing the factory-attached perches (first > welding), welding perches in a position suitable for the pre-lift > installation (second welding), removing these perches at a later time, > and welding perches in a new position suitable for the lifted jeep > (third welding). That is a lot of welding, will it harm the tubes, > make them brittle? > > Thanks > The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting weaker. As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how much lift you plan to install in the future. 2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you install the lift. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. |
Re: Pinion angle
> One other question: How bad is it to weld and reweld on axle tubes?
> Here we are talking about removing the factory-attached perches (first > welding), welding perches in a position suitable for the pre-lift > installation (second welding), removing these perches at a later time, > and welding perches in a new position suitable for the lifted jeep > (third welding). That is a lot of welding, will it harm the tubes, > make them brittle? > > Thanks > The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting weaker. As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how much lift you plan to install in the future. 2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you install the lift. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. |
Re: Pinion angle
> One other question: How bad is it to weld and reweld on axle tubes?
> Here we are talking about removing the factory-attached perches (first > welding), welding perches in a position suitable for the pre-lift > installation (second welding), removing these perches at a later time, > and welding perches in a new position suitable for the lifted jeep > (third welding). That is a lot of welding, will it harm the tubes, > make them brittle? > > Thanks > The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting weaker. As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how much lift you plan to install in the future. 2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you install the lift. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. |
Re: Pinion angle
> One other question: How bad is it to weld and reweld on axle tubes?
> Here we are talking about removing the factory-attached perches (first > welding), welding perches in a position suitable for the pre-lift > installation (second welding), removing these perches at a later time, > and welding perches in a new position suitable for the lifted jeep > (third welding). That is a lot of welding, will it harm the tubes, > make them brittle? > > Thanks > The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting weaker. As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how much lift you plan to install in the future. 2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you install the lift. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On Sat, 12 May 2007 02:45:49 +0300, "Bill Spiliotopoulos"
<vspili@yahoo.com> wrote: >The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the >axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld >cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds >must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. >Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before >welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. >Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and >avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches >were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. >If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting >weaker. This is good advise. You are more likely to overheat tube cutting perches off if not done correctly. You want a very hot flame with plenty of oxygen flow when you "cut" with a torch and get job done as quickly as possible. I would cut parallel to tubes with torch and get perchs off and firgure on replacing perches so that you do not have to heat tube much cutting them off. Grind tube after it cools if you need a better contact surface before rewelding them on. > >As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how >much lift you plan to install in the future. >2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would >require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. Agreed > >However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a >new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much >better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any >complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as >close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you >install the lift. Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not be a issue at all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On Sat, 12 May 2007 02:45:49 +0300, "Bill Spiliotopoulos"
<vspili@yahoo.com> wrote: >The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the >axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld >cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds >must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. >Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before >welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. >Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and >avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches >were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. >If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting >weaker. This is good advise. You are more likely to overheat tube cutting perches off if not done correctly. You want a very hot flame with plenty of oxygen flow when you "cut" with a torch and get job done as quickly as possible. I would cut parallel to tubes with torch and get perchs off and firgure on replacing perches so that you do not have to heat tube much cutting them off. Grind tube after it cools if you need a better contact surface before rewelding them on. > >As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how >much lift you plan to install in the future. >2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would >require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. Agreed > >However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a >new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much >better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any >complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as >close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you >install the lift. Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not be a issue at all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On Sat, 12 May 2007 02:45:49 +0300, "Bill Spiliotopoulos"
<vspili@yahoo.com> wrote: >The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the >axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld >cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds >must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. >Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before >welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. >Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and >avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches >were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. >If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting >weaker. This is good advise. You are more likely to overheat tube cutting perches off if not done correctly. You want a very hot flame with plenty of oxygen flow when you "cut" with a torch and get job done as quickly as possible. I would cut parallel to tubes with torch and get perchs off and firgure on replacing perches so that you do not have to heat tube much cutting them off. Grind tube after it cools if you need a better contact surface before rewelding them on. > >As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how >much lift you plan to install in the future. >2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would >require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. Agreed > >However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a >new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much >better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any >complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as >close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you >install the lift. Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not be a issue at all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
On Sat, 12 May 2007 02:45:49 +0300, "Bill Spiliotopoulos"
<vspili@yahoo.com> wrote: >The problem with welding is that if not done properlly, it will bend the >axle tubes. Every time you make a weld on the axle tube, after the weld >cools off, it will curve slightlly the tube towards the weld. The welds >must be performed very carefully with the minimal amount of welding needed. >Make small welds at a time, and wait for the axle tube to cool before >welding on the next spot. Don't use water or anything else to help cooling. >Do not get carried away with the welder, don't make continuous passes and >avoid welds with deep penetration. Study how the factory-attached perches >were welded and try to reproduce the same weld pterern. >If you follow the above, I wouldn't be worried about the axle getting >weaker. This is good advise. You are more likely to overheat tube cutting perches off if not done correctly. You want a very hot flame with plenty of oxygen flow when you "cut" with a torch and get job done as quickly as possible. I would cut parallel to tubes with torch and get perchs off and firgure on replacing perches so that you do not have to heat tube much cutting them off. Grind tube after it cools if you need a better contact surface before rewelding them on. > >As far as what setup with the drive-shafts to use, it all depends to how >much lift you plan to install in the future. >2.5" lift is about as much as you can get away without a SYE, but it would >require both pinion angle adjustment and a bit of TC lowering. Agreed > >However if you have the SYE installed in the TC, and since you will need a >new drive-shaft for it anyway, why not get one with a CV? It would be a much >better combination than no CV at all. And with 2.5" lift you wont have any >complications. IMO it would be more practical to weld the perches once as >close to the correct position for a 2.5" lift and shim it lower until you >install the lift. Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not be a issue at all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Pinion angle
With a SYE and CV shaft, pinion should be pointed at the T-case output minus
1-2 degrees to account for axle wrap. The lower u-joint should be nearly straight, with all the angle taken up by the CV part of the new driveshaft. HTH Carl "nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1178906375.283917.287930@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com... > > > I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > Two options: > > 1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > each other? > > 2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > lift is in place? > > My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > option to choose? > > Thanks > |
Re: Pinion angle
With a SYE and CV shaft, pinion should be pointed at the T-case output minus
1-2 degrees to account for axle wrap. The lower u-joint should be nearly straight, with all the angle taken up by the CV part of the new driveshaft. HTH Carl "nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1178906375.283917.287930@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com... > > > I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > Two options: > > 1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > each other? > > 2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > lift is in place? > > My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > option to choose? > > Thanks > |
Re: Pinion angle
With a SYE and CV shaft, pinion should be pointed at the T-case output minus
1-2 degrees to account for axle wrap. The lower u-joint should be nearly straight, with all the angle taken up by the CV part of the new driveshaft. HTH Carl "nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1178906375.283917.287930@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com... > > > I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > Two options: > > 1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > each other? > > 2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > lift is in place? > > My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > option to choose? > > Thanks > |
Re: Pinion angle
With a SYE and CV shaft, pinion should be pointed at the T-case output minus
1-2 degrees to account for axle wrap. The lower u-joint should be nearly straight, with all the angle taken up by the CV part of the new driveshaft. HTH Carl "nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1178906375.283917.287930@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com... > > > I bought a Cherokee Dana 44 today and am trying to decide the best way > to install it. The vehicle is a '95 Yj with 2.5L engine and all stock > drivetrain and no lift. The stock drive shaft length between u-joint > cap centers is 14.5 inches. The doubt arises because I plan to lift > the jeep 2.5 inches next year using leaf spring lift only. > > Two options: > > 1) stick with single cardan drive shafts: Will the angles be Ok after > the lift with a SYE and Transfer case output and pinion parallel to > each other? > > 2) go with CV style driveshaft: Should the Dana 44 be installed with > some upward angle on the pinion (with no lift, maybe using shims to > lower it to parallel for now) to avoid rewelding to rotate once the > lift is in place? > > My main goal is to maximize reliability. Which would be the best > option to choose? > > Thanks > |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes
> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not > be a issue at all. I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for a Wrangler. The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes
> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not > be a issue at all. I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for a Wrangler. The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes
> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not > be a issue at all. I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for a Wrangler. The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes
> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not > be a issue at all. I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for a Wrangler. The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
Wouldnt a CV on each end cause the shaft to flop up and down? I cant imagine
4 joints on a single driveshaft... Carl "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vspili@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f232hq$9nj$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr... >> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes >> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not >> be a issue at all. > > I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for a > Wrangler. > The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to > accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. > Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require > ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more > expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't > justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. > > Bill Spiliotopoulos, > '96XJ, '06 TJ. > > > |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
Wouldnt a CV on each end cause the shaft to flop up and down? I cant imagine
4 joints on a single driveshaft... Carl "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vspili@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f232hq$9nj$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr... >> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes >> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not >> be a issue at all. > > I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for a > Wrangler. > The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to > accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. > Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require > ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more > expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't > justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. > > Bill Spiliotopoulos, > '96XJ, '06 TJ. > > > |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
Wouldnt a CV on each end cause the shaft to flop up and down? I cant imagine
4 joints on a single driveshaft... Carl "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vspili@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f232hq$9nj$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr... >> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes >> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not >> be a issue at all. > > I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for a > Wrangler. > The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to > accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. > Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require > ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more > expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't > justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. > > Bill Spiliotopoulos, > '96XJ, '06 TJ. > > > |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
Wouldnt a CV on each end cause the shaft to flop up and down? I cant imagine
4 joints on a single driveshaft... Carl "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vspili@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f232hq$9nj$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr... >> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes >> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not >> be a issue at all. > > I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for a > Wrangler. > The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to > accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. > Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require > ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more > expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't > justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. > > Bill Spiliotopoulos, > '96XJ, '06 TJ. > > > |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
I don't believe it is possible to have one with dual cardan CV joints.
But you can with ball CV joints, like the ones used on the 2007 wrangler rear driveshaft (and it is a weaker design that cardan joints). Anyway, it is an overkill to have a dual CV driveshaft. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. Ο "Carl S" <carlsaiyed@REMOVE.hotmail.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα news:6ZudnSZbhdI_k9jbnZ2dnUVZ_viunZ2d@comcast.com. .. > Wouldnt a CV on each end cause the shaft to flop up and down? I cant > imagine 4 joints on a single driveshaft... > > Carl > > > "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vspili@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:f232hq$9nj$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr... >>> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes >>> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not >>> be a issue at all. >> >> I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for >> a Wrangler. >> The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to >> accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. >> Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require >> ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more >> expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't >> justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. >> >> Bill Spiliotopoulos, >> '96XJ, '06 TJ. >> >> >> > > |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
I don't believe it is possible to have one with dual cardan CV joints.
But you can with ball CV joints, like the ones used on the 2007 wrangler rear driveshaft (and it is a weaker design that cardan joints). Anyway, it is an overkill to have a dual CV driveshaft. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. Ο "Carl S" <carlsaiyed@REMOVE.hotmail.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα news:6ZudnSZbhdI_k9jbnZ2dnUVZ_viunZ2d@comcast.com. .. > Wouldnt a CV on each end cause the shaft to flop up and down? I cant > imagine 4 joints on a single driveshaft... > > Carl > > > "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vspili@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:f232hq$9nj$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr... >>> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes >>> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not >>> be a issue at all. >> >> I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for >> a Wrangler. >> The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to >> accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. >> Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require >> ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more >> expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't >> justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. >> >> Bill Spiliotopoulos, >> '96XJ, '06 TJ. >> >> >> > > |
Re: Re: Pinion angle
I don't believe it is possible to have one with dual cardan CV joints.
But you can with ball CV joints, like the ones used on the 2007 wrangler rear driveshaft (and it is a weaker design that cardan joints). Anyway, it is an overkill to have a dual CV driveshaft. Bill Spiliotopoulos, '96XJ, '06 TJ. Ο "Carl S" <carlsaiyed@REMOVE.hotmail.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα news:6ZudnSZbhdI_k9jbnZ2dnUVZ_viunZ2d@comcast.com. .. > Wouldnt a CV on each end cause the shaft to flop up and down? I cant > imagine 4 joints on a single driveshaft... > > Carl > > > "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vspili@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:f232hq$9nj$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr... >>> Not a bad idea on the shiming until lift is installed but if he goes >>> with a double CV set up (CV's on both ends of driveshaft) it will not >>> be a issue at all. >> >> I am not aware if it is possible to have a double CV rear driveshaft for >> a Wrangler. >> The driveshaft is so short that there might not be enough length to >> accommodate the slip joint and CVs at both ends. >> Also I haven't seen one provided off-the-self, so it would require >> ordering and buiding to specifications, which would probably be more >> expensive than using the common way of a single CV shaft. It wouldn't >> justify the extra engineering just for a 2.5" lift. >> >> Bill Spiliotopoulos, >> '96XJ, '06 TJ. >> >> >> > > |
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