A lifter has a top and a bottom. There is nothing ambiguous about a
'flat top lifter'. It sure isn't a 'flat bottomed lifter'.

I can only find one example of a 'flat top lifter' in google and that is
a special insert in an opel racing engine to do away with lash shims.

So I ask once again, "do any Jeep engines use flat top lifters"?

Mike

Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
>
> OK, but if you have a hydraulic lifter that pumps oil through the
> pushrod that doesn't really have anything to do with the face of the lifter.
>
> I've heard for a long time that modern oils were tough on old engines,
> and that Hot Rod article is the first thing I've seen in a major
> publication where they gave some real evidence. Does it effect Jeep
> engines? I don't know, I suspect if you are driving around in a ******
> Jeep with an F head engine you should be concerned. If you are driving
> around in a 96 Cherokee with a 4.0 I wouldn't worry about it (and I
> don't, got 300,000 miles out of my first engine using regular old Pennzoil).
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > I can't buy that at all.
> >
> > Jeep engines last long using the oil off the shelves. I have one with
> > 315K and another with 385K km on them and they are still going strong.
> >
> > The Jeep lifters push oil out the top dimple and up the pushrod to lube
> > the rockers, they are not 'flat topped lifters'.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Jeff DeWitt wrote:
> >> I'm no expert on this but but I think a better description would be flat
> >> FACED lifters, not flat topped. I'm pretty sure that what they are
> >> referring to is lifters that have a flat face that rides against the
> >> cam, as opposed to the roller lifters in the pic. that Bill posted.
> >>
> >> Jeep lifters 4.0 lifters:
> >>
> >> http://www.sierrajeep.com/images/Mot...%20lifters.jpg
> >>
> >> Other flat topped lifter:
> >>
> >> http://www.holley.com/data/products/...eHydLifter.jpg
> >>
> >> Jeff DeWitt
> >>
> >> Mike Romain wrote:
> >>> The lifters I have installed and currently have in my 258 aren't flat
> >>> topped. They have a definite dimple in them that holds the pushrod in
> >>> place.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think we all do, except for Corvette, Porscha, and Harley, that
> >>>> use rollers:
> >>>> http://www.timgilles.com/photogaller...lerlifters.jpg
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Do any Jeep engines use flat top lifters?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mike
> >>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

 

Does this discussion have anything to do with flat head versus overhead, or
the part of the lifter face that contacts the cam? At some point, engine
manufacturers figured out how to make the lifters rotate during operation.
This makes the job of the lubricant easier.

Earle

"Jeffrey DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_BGbg.3018$Qg.1475@tornado.southeast.rr.com.. .
> OK, but if you have a hydraulic lifter that pumps oil through the
> pushrod that doesn't really have anything to do with the face of the
lifter.
>
> I've heard for a long time that modern oils were tough on old engines,
> and that Hot Rod article is the first thing I've seen in a major
> publication where they gave some real evidence. Does it effect Jeep
> engines? I don't know, I suspect if you are driving around in a ******
> Jeep with an F head engine you should be concerned. If you are driving
> around in a 96 Cherokee with a 4.0 I wouldn't worry about it (and I
> don't, got 300,000 miles out of my first engine using regular old
Pennzoil).
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > I can't buy that at all.
> >
> > Jeep engines last long using the oil off the shelves. I have one with
> > 315K and another with 385K km on them and they are still going strong.
> >
> > The Jeep lifters push oil out the top dimple and up the pushrod to lube
> > the rockers, they are not 'flat topped lifters'.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Jeff DeWitt wrote:
> >> I'm no expert on this but but I think a better description would be
flat
> >> FACED lifters, not flat topped. I'm pretty sure that what they are
> >> referring to is lifters that have a flat face that rides against the
> >> cam, as opposed to the roller lifters in the pic. that Bill posted.
> >>
> >> Jeep lifters 4.0 lifters:
> >>
> >> http://www.sierrajeep.com/images/Mot...%20lifters.jpg
> >>
> >> Other flat topped lifter:
> >>
> >> http://www.holley.com/data/products/...eHydLifter.jpg
> >>
> >> Jeff DeWitt
> >>
> >> Mike Romain wrote:
> >>> The lifters I have installed and currently have in my 258 aren't flat
> >>> topped. They have a definite dimple in them that holds the pushrod in
> >>> place.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think we all do, except for Corvette, Porscha, and Harley, that
> >>>> use rollers:
> >>>> http://www.timgilles.com/photogaller...lerlifters.jpg
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Do any Jeep engines use flat top lifters?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mike
> >>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

 

Does this discussion have anything to do with flat head versus overhead, or
the part of the lifter face that contacts the cam? At some point, engine
manufacturers figured out how to make the lifters rotate during operation.
This makes the job of the lubricant easier.

Earle

"Jeffrey DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_BGbg.3018$Qg.1475@tornado.southeast.rr.com.. .
> OK, but if you have a hydraulic lifter that pumps oil through the
> pushrod that doesn't really have anything to do with the face of the
lifter.
>
> I've heard for a long time that modern oils were tough on old engines,
> and that Hot Rod article is the first thing I've seen in a major
> publication where they gave some real evidence. Does it effect Jeep
> engines? I don't know, I suspect if you are driving around in a ******
> Jeep with an F head engine you should be concerned. If you are driving
> around in a 96 Cherokee with a 4.0 I wouldn't worry about it (and I
> don't, got 300,000 miles out of my first engine using regular old
Pennzoil).
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > I can't buy that at all.
> >
> > Jeep engines last long using the oil off the shelves. I have one with
> > 315K and another with 385K km on them and they are still going strong.
> >
> > The Jeep lifters push oil out the top dimple and up the pushrod to lube
> > the rockers, they are not 'flat topped lifters'.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Jeff DeWitt wrote:
> >> I'm no expert on this but but I think a better description would be
flat
> >> FACED lifters, not flat topped. I'm pretty sure that what they are
> >> referring to is lifters that have a flat face that rides against the
> >> cam, as opposed to the roller lifters in the pic. that Bill posted.
> >>
> >> Jeep lifters 4.0 lifters:
> >>
> >> http://www.sierrajeep.com/images/Mot...%20lifters.jpg
> >>
> >> Other flat topped lifter:
> >>
> >> http://www.holley.com/data/products/...eHydLifter.jpg
> >>
> >> Jeff DeWitt
> >>
> >> Mike Romain wrote:
> >>> The lifters I have installed and currently have in my 258 aren't flat
> >>> topped. They have a definite dimple in them that holds the pushrod in
> >>> place.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think we all do, except for Corvette, Porscha, and Harley, that
> >>>> use rollers:
> >>>> http://www.timgilles.com/photogaller...lerlifters.jpg
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Do any Jeep engines use flat top lifters?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mike
> >>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

 

Does this discussion have anything to do with flat head versus overhead, or
the part of the lifter face that contacts the cam? At some point, engine
manufacturers figured out how to make the lifters rotate during operation.
This makes the job of the lubricant easier.

Earle

"Jeffrey DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_BGbg.3018$Qg.1475@tornado.southeast.rr.com.. .
> OK, but if you have a hydraulic lifter that pumps oil through the
> pushrod that doesn't really have anything to do with the face of the
lifter.
>
> I've heard for a long time that modern oils were tough on old engines,
> and that Hot Rod article is the first thing I've seen in a major
> publication where they gave some real evidence. Does it effect Jeep
> engines? I don't know, I suspect if you are driving around in a ******
> Jeep with an F head engine you should be concerned. If you are driving
> around in a 96 Cherokee with a 4.0 I wouldn't worry about it (and I
> don't, got 300,000 miles out of my first engine using regular old
Pennzoil).
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > I can't buy that at all.
> >
> > Jeep engines last long using the oil off the shelves. I have one with
> > 315K and another with 385K km on them and they are still going strong.
> >
> > The Jeep lifters push oil out the top dimple and up the pushrod to lube
> > the rockers, they are not 'flat topped lifters'.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Jeff DeWitt wrote:
> >> I'm no expert on this but but I think a better description would be
flat
> >> FACED lifters, not flat topped. I'm pretty sure that what they are
> >> referring to is lifters that have a flat face that rides against the
> >> cam, as opposed to the roller lifters in the pic. that Bill posted.
> >>
> >> Jeep lifters 4.0 lifters:
> >>
> >> http://www.sierrajeep.com/images/Mot...%20lifters.jpg
> >>
> >> Other flat topped lifter:
> >>
> >> http://www.holley.com/data/products/...eHydLifter.jpg
> >>
> >> Jeff DeWitt
> >>
> >> Mike Romain wrote:
> >>> The lifters I have installed and currently have in my 258 aren't flat
> >>> topped. They have a definite dimple in them that holds the pushrod in
> >>> place.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think we all do, except for Corvette, Porscha, and Harley, that
> >>>> use rollers:
> >>>> http://www.timgilles.com/photogaller...lerlifters.jpg
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Do any Jeep engines use flat top lifters?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mike
> >>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

 

Dad was a farmer, married, with one kid (me) which made him deferred
in several ways but he and 5 friends with similar deferals all joined
up after Pearl Harbor. His rationale? He had two bits in his overalls
and the Army was paying a $90 enlisment bonus to people with heavy
machinery experience. His cash income as an enlisted grunt was an
order of magnitude greater than what a dirt farmer was making in the
1940s. Of the six buddies, he was the only one who came home alive.
While those in his category were deferred, much depended on where you
lived - local draft boards were levied quotas and they were the ones
who determined the deferrals. The number of local volunteers had a
big influence on how many were drafted from the community, especially
in fram/ranch country.

On Sat, 20 May 2006 15:40:54 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
wrote:

> My father grew up on a farm, neither his father or his brothers were
> drafted because farming was considered a strategic occupation. However
> Dad went to collage and then spent a short stint as a collage
> professor... and was drafted for the Korean War.
>
> My other Grandfather was what we would now call an avionics engineer for
> Bendix in Teterboro NJ, kept trying to join the Navy during WWII,
> finally the recruiter told him "Mr. Noxon, if you insist we will sign
> you up, but then you will be assigned to doing exactly what you are
> doing now but making a lot less money!" Granddad gave up on the idea of
> joining the military!
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> > I resemble that! I was raised, then drafted off a ranch:
> > http://www.----------.com/4Hdurock.jpg
> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > mailto:--------------------
> >
> > Earle Horton wrote:
> >> Have you ever worked on a farm? There is more than one reason, that
> >> Selective Service wouldn't touch farm workers. ;^)
> >>
> >> Earle


--
Will Honea

 

Dad was a farmer, married, with one kid (me) which made him deferred
in several ways but he and 5 friends with similar deferals all joined
up after Pearl Harbor. His rationale? He had two bits in his overalls
and the Army was paying a $90 enlisment bonus to people with heavy
machinery experience. His cash income as an enlisted grunt was an
order of magnitude greater than what a dirt farmer was making in the
1940s. Of the six buddies, he was the only one who came home alive.
While those in his category were deferred, much depended on where you
lived - local draft boards were levied quotas and they were the ones
who determined the deferrals. The number of local volunteers had a
big influence on how many were drafted from the community, especially
in fram/ranch country.

On Sat, 20 May 2006 15:40:54 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
wrote:

> My father grew up on a farm, neither his father or his brothers were
> drafted because farming was considered a strategic occupation. However
> Dad went to collage and then spent a short stint as a collage
> professor... and was drafted for the Korean War.
>
> My other Grandfather was what we would now call an avionics engineer for
> Bendix in Teterboro NJ, kept trying to join the Navy during WWII,
> finally the recruiter told him "Mr. Noxon, if you insist we will sign
> you up, but then you will be assigned to doing exactly what you are
> doing now but making a lot less money!" Granddad gave up on the idea of
> joining the military!
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> > I resemble that! I was raised, then drafted off a ranch:
> > http://www.----------.com/4Hdurock.jpg
> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > mailto:--------------------
> >
> > Earle Horton wrote:
> >> Have you ever worked on a farm? There is more than one reason, that
> >> Selective Service wouldn't touch farm workers. ;^)
> >>
> >> Earle


--
Will Honea

 

Dad was a farmer, married, with one kid (me) which made him deferred
in several ways but he and 5 friends with similar deferals all joined
up after Pearl Harbor. His rationale? He had two bits in his overalls
and the Army was paying a $90 enlisment bonus to people with heavy
machinery experience. His cash income as an enlisted grunt was an
order of magnitude greater than what a dirt farmer was making in the
1940s. Of the six buddies, he was the only one who came home alive.
While those in his category were deferred, much depended on where you
lived - local draft boards were levied quotas and they were the ones
who determined the deferrals. The number of local volunteers had a
big influence on how many were drafted from the community, especially
in fram/ranch country.

On Sat, 20 May 2006 15:40:54 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
wrote:

> My father grew up on a farm, neither his father or his brothers were
> drafted because farming was considered a strategic occupation. However
> Dad went to collage and then spent a short stint as a collage
> professor... and was drafted for the Korean War.
>
> My other Grandfather was what we would now call an avionics engineer for
> Bendix in Teterboro NJ, kept trying to join the Navy during WWII,
> finally the recruiter told him "Mr. Noxon, if you insist we will sign
> you up, but then you will be assigned to doing exactly what you are
> doing now but making a lot less money!" Granddad gave up on the idea of
> joining the military!
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> > I resemble that! I was raised, then drafted off a ranch:
> > http://www.----------.com/4Hdurock.jpg
> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > mailto:--------------------
> >
> > Earle Horton wrote:
> >> Have you ever worked on a farm? There is more than one reason, that
> >> Selective Service wouldn't touch farm workers. ;^)
> >>
> >> Earle


--
Will Honea

 

Mike Romain wrote:
> A lifter has a top and a bottom. There is nothing ambiguous about a
> 'flat top lifter'. It sure isn't a 'flat bottomed lifter'.
>
> I can only find one example of a 'flat top lifter' in google and that is
> a special insert in an opel racing engine to do away with lash shims.
>
> So I ask once again, "do any Jeep engines use flat top lifters"?

To add some more confusion here, I can only guess that a "flat topped"
lifter is a solid NON HYDROLIC or "flat tappet" lifter. I've never heard
of flat "topped" lifters before and I'm wondering if the OP simply
misquoted "tappet"

The fact that old timers like Bill and Mike haven't already scoffed at
everyone else for not knowing what a "flat topped" lifter is: is proof
enough for me :)

If Hot Rod was talking about every day hydrolic lifters, then we would
be seeing just about every modern car and truck without overhead cams,
with this accelerated cam wear. Including lots of bulletproof pushrod
motors like the 4.0

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein

 

Mike Romain wrote:
> A lifter has a top and a bottom. There is nothing ambiguous about a
> 'flat top lifter'. It sure isn't a 'flat bottomed lifter'.
>
> I can only find one example of a 'flat top lifter' in google and that is
> a special insert in an opel racing engine to do away with lash shims.
>
> So I ask once again, "do any Jeep engines use flat top lifters"?

To add some more confusion here, I can only guess that a "flat topped"
lifter is a solid NON HYDROLIC or "flat tappet" lifter. I've never heard
of flat "topped" lifters before and I'm wondering if the OP simply
misquoted "tappet"

The fact that old timers like Bill and Mike haven't already scoffed at
everyone else for not knowing what a "flat topped" lifter is: is proof
enough for me :)

If Hot Rod was talking about every day hydrolic lifters, then we would
be seeing just about every modern car and truck without overhead cams,
with this accelerated cam wear. Including lots of bulletproof pushrod
motors like the 4.0

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein

 

Mike Romain wrote:
> A lifter has a top and a bottom. There is nothing ambiguous about a
> 'flat top lifter'. It sure isn't a 'flat bottomed lifter'.
>
> I can only find one example of a 'flat top lifter' in google and that is
> a special insert in an opel racing engine to do away with lash shims.
>
> So I ask once again, "do any Jeep engines use flat top lifters"?

To add some more confusion here, I can only guess that a "flat topped"
lifter is a solid NON HYDROLIC or "flat tappet" lifter. I've never heard
of flat "topped" lifters before and I'm wondering if the OP simply
misquoted "tappet"

The fact that old timers like Bill and Mike haven't already scoffed at
everyone else for not knowing what a "flat topped" lifter is: is proof
enough for me :)

If Hot Rod was talking about every day hydrolic lifters, then we would
be seeing just about every modern car and truck without overhead cams,
with this accelerated cam wear. Including lots of bulletproof pushrod
motors like the 4.0

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein