Jeep Liberty : Reliability, Safety, IFS ??
11-25-2003, 08:59 PM
#161
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Liberty : Reliability, Safety, IFS ??
"Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-CrQZ5dvyddHL@anon.none.net>...
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:58 UTC jcwelch@hal-pc.org (John Welch)
> wrote:
>
> > Now on the other hand, fording the creek to get into the east pasture
[...]
>
> 12+ feet? That's a river, not a creek Where do you store the
> snorkles? Oh, you mean the cut, not the water depth. My problem with
> fording a ditch like that is usually the approach/depature angles
> since I seem to hang the bumper on one end or the other so that's
> gives the Wrangler a definte edge.
Actually, the tail pipe of the wrangler is under water going
blub-blub-blub while I am trying to straightn up and get a bite of
something that will let it climb up the other side. Every other time
through the Wrangler spins out, so it is rock back and forth, etc.
Liberty does not loose traction. No problem with approach or
departure. Probablly the selectrac.
Plans are to take both vehicles and a camcorder up to the farm after
eating too much bird on t-day and getting some real ground-truth
(remote sensing lingo that). I will try to get a web page built. I
suggested to wife we hook up the two rigs with a tow strap across the
creek and play 'tug of war.' Her response was not fit to post. I
think I can get my nephews interested. Weather should be muddy but
not to cold.
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:58 UTC jcwelch@hal-pc.org (John Welch)
> wrote:
>
> > Now on the other hand, fording the creek to get into the east pasture
[...]
>
> 12+ feet? That's a river, not a creek Where do you store the
> snorkles? Oh, you mean the cut, not the water depth. My problem with
> fording a ditch like that is usually the approach/depature angles
> since I seem to hang the bumper on one end or the other so that's
> gives the Wrangler a definte edge.
Actually, the tail pipe of the wrangler is under water going
blub-blub-blub while I am trying to straightn up and get a bite of
something that will let it climb up the other side. Every other time
through the Wrangler spins out, so it is rock back and forth, etc.
Liberty does not loose traction. No problem with approach or
departure. Probablly the selectrac.
Plans are to take both vehicles and a camcorder up to the farm after
eating too much bird on t-day and getting some real ground-truth
(remote sensing lingo that). I will try to get a web page built. I
suggested to wife we hook up the two rigs with a tow strap across the
creek and play 'tug of war.' Her response was not fit to post. I
think I can get my nephews interested. Weather should be muddy but
not to cold.
11-25-2003, 08:59 PM
#162
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Liberty : Reliability, Safety, IFS ??
"Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-CrQZ5dvyddHL@anon.none.net>...
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:58 UTC jcwelch@hal-pc.org (John Welch)
> wrote:
>
> > Now on the other hand, fording the creek to get into the east pasture
[...]
>
> 12+ feet? That's a river, not a creek Where do you store the
> snorkles? Oh, you mean the cut, not the water depth. My problem with
> fording a ditch like that is usually the approach/depature angles
> since I seem to hang the bumper on one end or the other so that's
> gives the Wrangler a definte edge.
Actually, the tail pipe of the wrangler is under water going
blub-blub-blub while I am trying to straightn up and get a bite of
something that will let it climb up the other side. Every other time
through the Wrangler spins out, so it is rock back and forth, etc.
Liberty does not loose traction. No problem with approach or
departure. Probablly the selectrac.
Plans are to take both vehicles and a camcorder up to the farm after
eating too much bird on t-day and getting some real ground-truth
(remote sensing lingo that). I will try to get a web page built. I
suggested to wife we hook up the two rigs with a tow strap across the
creek and play 'tug of war.' Her response was not fit to post. I
think I can get my nephews interested. Weather should be muddy but
not to cold.
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:58 UTC jcwelch@hal-pc.org (John Welch)
> wrote:
>
> > Now on the other hand, fording the creek to get into the east pasture
[...]
>
> 12+ feet? That's a river, not a creek Where do you store the
> snorkles? Oh, you mean the cut, not the water depth. My problem with
> fording a ditch like that is usually the approach/depature angles
> since I seem to hang the bumper on one end or the other so that's
> gives the Wrangler a definte edge.
Actually, the tail pipe of the wrangler is under water going
blub-blub-blub while I am trying to straightn up and get a bite of
something that will let it climb up the other side. Every other time
through the Wrangler spins out, so it is rock back and forth, etc.
Liberty does not loose traction. No problem with approach or
departure. Probablly the selectrac.
Plans are to take both vehicles and a camcorder up to the farm after
eating too much bird on t-day and getting some real ground-truth
(remote sensing lingo that). I will try to get a web page built. I
suggested to wife we hook up the two rigs with a tow strap across the
creek and play 'tug of war.' Her response was not fit to post. I
think I can get my nephews interested. Weather should be muddy but
not to cold.
11-25-2003, 08:59 PM
#163
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Liberty : Reliability, Safety, IFS ??
"Will Honea" <whonea@codenet.net> wrote in message news:<JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-CrQZ5dvyddHL@anon.none.net>...
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:58 UTC jcwelch@hal-pc.org (John Welch)
> wrote:
>
> > Now on the other hand, fording the creek to get into the east pasture
[...]
>
> 12+ feet? That's a river, not a creek Where do you store the
> snorkles? Oh, you mean the cut, not the water depth. My problem with
> fording a ditch like that is usually the approach/depature angles
> since I seem to hang the bumper on one end or the other so that's
> gives the Wrangler a definte edge.
Actually, the tail pipe of the wrangler is under water going
blub-blub-blub while I am trying to straightn up and get a bite of
something that will let it climb up the other side. Every other time
through the Wrangler spins out, so it is rock back and forth, etc.
Liberty does not loose traction. No problem with approach or
departure. Probablly the selectrac.
Plans are to take both vehicles and a camcorder up to the farm after
eating too much bird on t-day and getting some real ground-truth
(remote sensing lingo that). I will try to get a web page built. I
suggested to wife we hook up the two rigs with a tow strap across the
creek and play 'tug of war.' Her response was not fit to post. I
think I can get my nephews interested. Weather should be muddy but
not to cold.
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:58 UTC jcwelch@hal-pc.org (John Welch)
> wrote:
>
> > Now on the other hand, fording the creek to get into the east pasture
[...]
>
> 12+ feet? That's a river, not a creek Where do you store the
> snorkles? Oh, you mean the cut, not the water depth. My problem with
> fording a ditch like that is usually the approach/depature angles
> since I seem to hang the bumper on one end or the other so that's
> gives the Wrangler a definte edge.
Actually, the tail pipe of the wrangler is under water going
blub-blub-blub while I am trying to straightn up and get a bite of
something that will let it climb up the other side. Every other time
through the Wrangler spins out, so it is rock back and forth, etc.
Liberty does not loose traction. No problem with approach or
departure. Probablly the selectrac.
Plans are to take both vehicles and a camcorder up to the farm after
eating too much bird on t-day and getting some real ground-truth
(remote sensing lingo that). I will try to get a web page built. I
suggested to wife we hook up the two rigs with a tow strap across the
creek and play 'tug of war.' Her response was not fit to post. I
think I can get my nephews interested. Weather should be muddy but
not to cold.
11-25-2003, 10:10 PM
#164
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Liberty : Reliability, Safety, IFS ??
Sorry if I pissed anyone off folks - no trolling intended.
Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain. Every
one of them had things falling apart - i.e. hand brake lever came
disconnected from linkage; hand brake lever button fell out so hand brake
would not engage; 4wd engagement lever came disconnected from linkage
(several times) so could not put in 4wd; power windows quick working;
speedometer quit working; radio quit working; drivers seat quit sliding in
its track so could not adjust; paint flaked off of metal and door trim; door
trim (protective strip to avoid door dings) started falling off; etc; etc;
etc.
Now, in retrospect, perhaps I used the incorrect terminology - perhaps I
should have said "hardware" fell apart - not mechanical failure. None of
the company Jeeps broke down in terms of engine (although some of them had a
hell of a wrist pin knock in them for a new engine); transmission; U-joints;
etc. And as I said earlier, they are great for off road - none of them got
stuck. However when you pay that much for a vehicle I expect all parts of
it to hold together better than they did.
Now to the second part. I did not set the judging criteria, Jerry did. He
asked if a Ford was a 4 what would a Jeep be. We have switched across the
board with Ford pickups now for construction vehicles - F-150's; F-250's,
F-350's both 2wd and 4wd. NONE of them have broken mechanically OR HAD
HARDWARE FALLING APART!!! So, by the scale that Jerry set, I still have to
give the Jeeps a big bad negative number. If they would only make the
various hardware pieces as good as the suspension and powertrain, they would
have a great vehicle.
Now I realize, I am still pissing off some Jeep lovers for which I
apologize. However, Jerry asked for an opinion, which I offered. I would
like to think that anyone can offer an opinion based on his personal
experience in this group without being labeled TROLL or ---- on. If others
have had great experiences, then let them speak up and share their
experiences. I can only offer my experience which unfortunately was not
satisfactory.
I would love to hear other peoples opinions and experiences - without the
TROLL comments and other shitty commentary. Lets give Jerry as much
legitimate information as we can and let him make a decision.
Don
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:63Wvb.5588$Bk1.1054@fed1read05...
> Heh, I always have to laugh at the trolls.
>
> --
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Don" <Not@This.Address> wrote in message
> news:w1Wvb.993$ZE1.110@fed1read04...
> > If a Ford is a 4, then I'd have to say a Jeep would be about a -20.
Maybe
> > the CJ a -10.
> >
> > Note I'm note talking about off road capability - no arguments there -
> most
> > Jeeps do well there. Note I say most Jeeps - the Liberty being the
> > exception. Just plain reliability, mechanical, etc, the Jeeps fall
apart.
> >
> > Sorry to you Jeep lovers - just from my and every one I know experience.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Paul Thomas" <Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com> wrote in message
> > news:8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.co m...
> > > I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
> > > discussion about this SUV in the newsgroups. I understand overall it
> > > is a pretty good vehicle. There are a couple of things about liberty
> > > that I would like to know. Safety and Reliability.
> > >
> > > Safety : How safe is it? I am new to SUVs and I hear that SUVs are
> > > vulnerable to tip over. How is jeep's record on this? How about other
> > > safety features?
> > >
> > >
> > > Reliability : How reliable is Liberty? I am going to use it only to
> > > commute to and from work and may be some camping. Strictly no rock
> > > climbing or extreme off roading of any sort. If you give Honda a
> > > reliability rating of 10 and a Ford a reliability rating of 4 how
> > > would you rate Liberty? ( Remember no offroading). Does the parts
> > > start malfunctioning after a couple of years? (I hear Nissan Xterra
> > > has this problem )
> > >
> > >
> > > I am a novice in autos. What is the deal with independent front
> > > suspension and solid rear axle? How does it affect comfort and
> > > reliability?
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your help,
> > >
> > > Paul Thomas
> >
> >
>
>
Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain. Every
one of them had things falling apart - i.e. hand brake lever came
disconnected from linkage; hand brake lever button fell out so hand brake
would not engage; 4wd engagement lever came disconnected from linkage
(several times) so could not put in 4wd; power windows quick working;
speedometer quit working; radio quit working; drivers seat quit sliding in
its track so could not adjust; paint flaked off of metal and door trim; door
trim (protective strip to avoid door dings) started falling off; etc; etc;
etc.
Now, in retrospect, perhaps I used the incorrect terminology - perhaps I
should have said "hardware" fell apart - not mechanical failure. None of
the company Jeeps broke down in terms of engine (although some of them had a
hell of a wrist pin knock in them for a new engine); transmission; U-joints;
etc. And as I said earlier, they are great for off road - none of them got
stuck. However when you pay that much for a vehicle I expect all parts of
it to hold together better than they did.
Now to the second part. I did not set the judging criteria, Jerry did. He
asked if a Ford was a 4 what would a Jeep be. We have switched across the
board with Ford pickups now for construction vehicles - F-150's; F-250's,
F-350's both 2wd and 4wd. NONE of them have broken mechanically OR HAD
HARDWARE FALLING APART!!! So, by the scale that Jerry set, I still have to
give the Jeeps a big bad negative number. If they would only make the
various hardware pieces as good as the suspension and powertrain, they would
have a great vehicle.
Now I realize, I am still pissing off some Jeep lovers for which I
apologize. However, Jerry asked for an opinion, which I offered. I would
like to think that anyone can offer an opinion based on his personal
experience in this group without being labeled TROLL or ---- on. If others
have had great experiences, then let them speak up and share their
experiences. I can only offer my experience which unfortunately was not
satisfactory.
I would love to hear other peoples opinions and experiences - without the
TROLL comments and other shitty commentary. Lets give Jerry as much
legitimate information as we can and let him make a decision.
Don
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:63Wvb.5588$Bk1.1054@fed1read05...
> Heh, I always have to laugh at the trolls.
>
> --
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Don" <Not@This.Address> wrote in message
> news:w1Wvb.993$ZE1.110@fed1read04...
> > If a Ford is a 4, then I'd have to say a Jeep would be about a -20.
Maybe
> > the CJ a -10.
> >
> > Note I'm note talking about off road capability - no arguments there -
> most
> > Jeeps do well there. Note I say most Jeeps - the Liberty being the
> > exception. Just plain reliability, mechanical, etc, the Jeeps fall
apart.
> >
> > Sorry to you Jeep lovers - just from my and every one I know experience.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Paul Thomas" <Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com> wrote in message
> > news:8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.co m...
> > > I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
> > > discussion about this SUV in the newsgroups. I understand overall it
> > > is a pretty good vehicle. There are a couple of things about liberty
> > > that I would like to know. Safety and Reliability.
> > >
> > > Safety : How safe is it? I am new to SUVs and I hear that SUVs are
> > > vulnerable to tip over. How is jeep's record on this? How about other
> > > safety features?
> > >
> > >
> > > Reliability : How reliable is Liberty? I am going to use it only to
> > > commute to and from work and may be some camping. Strictly no rock
> > > climbing or extreme off roading of any sort. If you give Honda a
> > > reliability rating of 10 and a Ford a reliability rating of 4 how
> > > would you rate Liberty? ( Remember no offroading). Does the parts
> > > start malfunctioning after a couple of years? (I hear Nissan Xterra
> > > has this problem )
> > >
> > >
> > > I am a novice in autos. What is the deal with independent front
> > > suspension and solid rear axle? How does it affect comfort and
> > > reliability?
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your help,
> > >
> > > Paul Thomas
> >
> >
>
>
11-25-2003, 10:10 PM
#165
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Liberty : Reliability, Safety, IFS ??
Sorry if I pissed anyone off folks - no trolling intended.
Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain. Every
one of them had things falling apart - i.e. hand brake lever came
disconnected from linkage; hand brake lever button fell out so hand brake
would not engage; 4wd engagement lever came disconnected from linkage
(several times) so could not put in 4wd; power windows quick working;
speedometer quit working; radio quit working; drivers seat quit sliding in
its track so could not adjust; paint flaked off of metal and door trim; door
trim (protective strip to avoid door dings) started falling off; etc; etc;
etc.
Now, in retrospect, perhaps I used the incorrect terminology - perhaps I
should have said "hardware" fell apart - not mechanical failure. None of
the company Jeeps broke down in terms of engine (although some of them had a
hell of a wrist pin knock in them for a new engine); transmission; U-joints;
etc. And as I said earlier, they are great for off road - none of them got
stuck. However when you pay that much for a vehicle I expect all parts of
it to hold together better than they did.
Now to the second part. I did not set the judging criteria, Jerry did. He
asked if a Ford was a 4 what would a Jeep be. We have switched across the
board with Ford pickups now for construction vehicles - F-150's; F-250's,
F-350's both 2wd and 4wd. NONE of them have broken mechanically OR HAD
HARDWARE FALLING APART!!! So, by the scale that Jerry set, I still have to
give the Jeeps a big bad negative number. If they would only make the
various hardware pieces as good as the suspension and powertrain, they would
have a great vehicle.
Now I realize, I am still pissing off some Jeep lovers for which I
apologize. However, Jerry asked for an opinion, which I offered. I would
like to think that anyone can offer an opinion based on his personal
experience in this group without being labeled TROLL or ---- on. If others
have had great experiences, then let them speak up and share their
experiences. I can only offer my experience which unfortunately was not
satisfactory.
I would love to hear other peoples opinions and experiences - without the
TROLL comments and other shitty commentary. Lets give Jerry as much
legitimate information as we can and let him make a decision.
Don
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:63Wvb.5588$Bk1.1054@fed1read05...
> Heh, I always have to laugh at the trolls.
>
> --
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Don" <Not@This.Address> wrote in message
> news:w1Wvb.993$ZE1.110@fed1read04...
> > If a Ford is a 4, then I'd have to say a Jeep would be about a -20.
Maybe
> > the CJ a -10.
> >
> > Note I'm note talking about off road capability - no arguments there -
> most
> > Jeeps do well there. Note I say most Jeeps - the Liberty being the
> > exception. Just plain reliability, mechanical, etc, the Jeeps fall
apart.
> >
> > Sorry to you Jeep lovers - just from my and every one I know experience.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Paul Thomas" <Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com> wrote in message
> > news:8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.co m...
> > > I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
> > > discussion about this SUV in the newsgroups. I understand overall it
> > > is a pretty good vehicle. There are a couple of things about liberty
> > > that I would like to know. Safety and Reliability.
> > >
> > > Safety : How safe is it? I am new to SUVs and I hear that SUVs are
> > > vulnerable to tip over. How is jeep's record on this? How about other
> > > safety features?
> > >
> > >
> > > Reliability : How reliable is Liberty? I am going to use it only to
> > > commute to and from work and may be some camping. Strictly no rock
> > > climbing or extreme off roading of any sort. If you give Honda a
> > > reliability rating of 10 and a Ford a reliability rating of 4 how
> > > would you rate Liberty? ( Remember no offroading). Does the parts
> > > start malfunctioning after a couple of years? (I hear Nissan Xterra
> > > has this problem )
> > >
> > >
> > > I am a novice in autos. What is the deal with independent front
> > > suspension and solid rear axle? How does it affect comfort and
> > > reliability?
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your help,
> > >
> > > Paul Thomas
> >
> >
>
>
Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain. Every
one of them had things falling apart - i.e. hand brake lever came
disconnected from linkage; hand brake lever button fell out so hand brake
would not engage; 4wd engagement lever came disconnected from linkage
(several times) so could not put in 4wd; power windows quick working;
speedometer quit working; radio quit working; drivers seat quit sliding in
its track so could not adjust; paint flaked off of metal and door trim; door
trim (protective strip to avoid door dings) started falling off; etc; etc;
etc.
Now, in retrospect, perhaps I used the incorrect terminology - perhaps I
should have said "hardware" fell apart - not mechanical failure. None of
the company Jeeps broke down in terms of engine (although some of them had a
hell of a wrist pin knock in them for a new engine); transmission; U-joints;
etc. And as I said earlier, they are great for off road - none of them got
stuck. However when you pay that much for a vehicle I expect all parts of
it to hold together better than they did.
Now to the second part. I did not set the judging criteria, Jerry did. He
asked if a Ford was a 4 what would a Jeep be. We have switched across the
board with Ford pickups now for construction vehicles - F-150's; F-250's,
F-350's both 2wd and 4wd. NONE of them have broken mechanically OR HAD
HARDWARE FALLING APART!!! So, by the scale that Jerry set, I still have to
give the Jeeps a big bad negative number. If they would only make the
various hardware pieces as good as the suspension and powertrain, they would
have a great vehicle.
Now I realize, I am still pissing off some Jeep lovers for which I
apologize. However, Jerry asked for an opinion, which I offered. I would
like to think that anyone can offer an opinion based on his personal
experience in this group without being labeled TROLL or ---- on. If others
have had great experiences, then let them speak up and share their
experiences. I can only offer my experience which unfortunately was not
satisfactory.
I would love to hear other peoples opinions and experiences - without the
TROLL comments and other shitty commentary. Lets give Jerry as much
legitimate information as we can and let him make a decision.
Don
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:63Wvb.5588$Bk1.1054@fed1read05...
> Heh, I always have to laugh at the trolls.
>
> --
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Don" <Not@This.Address> wrote in message
> news:w1Wvb.993$ZE1.110@fed1read04...
> > If a Ford is a 4, then I'd have to say a Jeep would be about a -20.
Maybe
> > the CJ a -10.
> >
> > Note I'm note talking about off road capability - no arguments there -
> most
> > Jeeps do well there. Note I say most Jeeps - the Liberty being the
> > exception. Just plain reliability, mechanical, etc, the Jeeps fall
apart.
> >
> > Sorry to you Jeep lovers - just from my and every one I know experience.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Paul Thomas" <Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com> wrote in message
> > news:8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.co m...
> > > I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
> > > discussion about this SUV in the newsgroups. I understand overall it
> > > is a pretty good vehicle. There are a couple of things about liberty
> > > that I would like to know. Safety and Reliability.
> > >
> > > Safety : How safe is it? I am new to SUVs and I hear that SUVs are
> > > vulnerable to tip over. How is jeep's record on this? How about other
> > > safety features?
> > >
> > >
> > > Reliability : How reliable is Liberty? I am going to use it only to
> > > commute to and from work and may be some camping. Strictly no rock
> > > climbing or extreme off roading of any sort. If you give Honda a
> > > reliability rating of 10 and a Ford a reliability rating of 4 how
> > > would you rate Liberty? ( Remember no offroading). Does the parts
> > > start malfunctioning after a couple of years? (I hear Nissan Xterra
> > > has this problem )
> > >
> > >
> > > I am a novice in autos. What is the deal with independent front
> > > suspension and solid rear axle? How does it affect comfort and
> > > reliability?
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your help,
> > >
> > > Paul Thomas
> >
> >
>
>
11-25-2003, 10:10 PM
#166
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Liberty : Reliability, Safety, IFS ??
Sorry if I pissed anyone off folks - no trolling intended.
Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain. Every
one of them had things falling apart - i.e. hand brake lever came
disconnected from linkage; hand brake lever button fell out so hand brake
would not engage; 4wd engagement lever came disconnected from linkage
(several times) so could not put in 4wd; power windows quick working;
speedometer quit working; radio quit working; drivers seat quit sliding in
its track so could not adjust; paint flaked off of metal and door trim; door
trim (protective strip to avoid door dings) started falling off; etc; etc;
etc.
Now, in retrospect, perhaps I used the incorrect terminology - perhaps I
should have said "hardware" fell apart - not mechanical failure. None of
the company Jeeps broke down in terms of engine (although some of them had a
hell of a wrist pin knock in them for a new engine); transmission; U-joints;
etc. And as I said earlier, they are great for off road - none of them got
stuck. However when you pay that much for a vehicle I expect all parts of
it to hold together better than they did.
Now to the second part. I did not set the judging criteria, Jerry did. He
asked if a Ford was a 4 what would a Jeep be. We have switched across the
board with Ford pickups now for construction vehicles - F-150's; F-250's,
F-350's both 2wd and 4wd. NONE of them have broken mechanically OR HAD
HARDWARE FALLING APART!!! So, by the scale that Jerry set, I still have to
give the Jeeps a big bad negative number. If they would only make the
various hardware pieces as good as the suspension and powertrain, they would
have a great vehicle.
Now I realize, I am still pissing off some Jeep lovers for which I
apologize. However, Jerry asked for an opinion, which I offered. I would
like to think that anyone can offer an opinion based on his personal
experience in this group without being labeled TROLL or ---- on. If others
have had great experiences, then let them speak up and share their
experiences. I can only offer my experience which unfortunately was not
satisfactory.
I would love to hear other peoples opinions and experiences - without the
TROLL comments and other shitty commentary. Lets give Jerry as much
legitimate information as we can and let him make a decision.
Don
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:63Wvb.5588$Bk1.1054@fed1read05...
> Heh, I always have to laugh at the trolls.
>
> --
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Don" <Not@This.Address> wrote in message
> news:w1Wvb.993$ZE1.110@fed1read04...
> > If a Ford is a 4, then I'd have to say a Jeep would be about a -20.
Maybe
> > the CJ a -10.
> >
> > Note I'm note talking about off road capability - no arguments there -
> most
> > Jeeps do well there. Note I say most Jeeps - the Liberty being the
> > exception. Just plain reliability, mechanical, etc, the Jeeps fall
apart.
> >
> > Sorry to you Jeep lovers - just from my and every one I know experience.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Paul Thomas" <Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com> wrote in message
> > news:8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.co m...
> > > I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
> > > discussion about this SUV in the newsgroups. I understand overall it
> > > is a pretty good vehicle. There are a couple of things about liberty
> > > that I would like to know. Safety and Reliability.
> > >
> > > Safety : How safe is it? I am new to SUVs and I hear that SUVs are
> > > vulnerable to tip over. How is jeep's record on this? How about other
> > > safety features?
> > >
> > >
> > > Reliability : How reliable is Liberty? I am going to use it only to
> > > commute to and from work and may be some camping. Strictly no rock
> > > climbing or extreme off roading of any sort. If you give Honda a
> > > reliability rating of 10 and a Ford a reliability rating of 4 how
> > > would you rate Liberty? ( Remember no offroading). Does the parts
> > > start malfunctioning after a couple of years? (I hear Nissan Xterra
> > > has this problem )
> > >
> > >
> > > I am a novice in autos. What is the deal with independent front
> > > suspension and solid rear axle? How does it affect comfort and
> > > reliability?
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your help,
> > >
> > > Paul Thomas
> >
> >
>
>
Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain. Every
one of them had things falling apart - i.e. hand brake lever came
disconnected from linkage; hand brake lever button fell out so hand brake
would not engage; 4wd engagement lever came disconnected from linkage
(several times) so could not put in 4wd; power windows quick working;
speedometer quit working; radio quit working; drivers seat quit sliding in
its track so could not adjust; paint flaked off of metal and door trim; door
trim (protective strip to avoid door dings) started falling off; etc; etc;
etc.
Now, in retrospect, perhaps I used the incorrect terminology - perhaps I
should have said "hardware" fell apart - not mechanical failure. None of
the company Jeeps broke down in terms of engine (although some of them had a
hell of a wrist pin knock in them for a new engine); transmission; U-joints;
etc. And as I said earlier, they are great for off road - none of them got
stuck. However when you pay that much for a vehicle I expect all parts of
it to hold together better than they did.
Now to the second part. I did not set the judging criteria, Jerry did. He
asked if a Ford was a 4 what would a Jeep be. We have switched across the
board with Ford pickups now for construction vehicles - F-150's; F-250's,
F-350's both 2wd and 4wd. NONE of them have broken mechanically OR HAD
HARDWARE FALLING APART!!! So, by the scale that Jerry set, I still have to
give the Jeeps a big bad negative number. If they would only make the
various hardware pieces as good as the suspension and powertrain, they would
have a great vehicle.
Now I realize, I am still pissing off some Jeep lovers for which I
apologize. However, Jerry asked for an opinion, which I offered. I would
like to think that anyone can offer an opinion based on his personal
experience in this group without being labeled TROLL or ---- on. If others
have had great experiences, then let them speak up and share their
experiences. I can only offer my experience which unfortunately was not
satisfactory.
I would love to hear other peoples opinions and experiences - without the
TROLL comments and other shitty commentary. Lets give Jerry as much
legitimate information as we can and let him make a decision.
Don
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:63Wvb.5588$Bk1.1054@fed1read05...
> Heh, I always have to laugh at the trolls.
>
> --
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Don" <Not@This.Address> wrote in message
> news:w1Wvb.993$ZE1.110@fed1read04...
> > If a Ford is a 4, then I'd have to say a Jeep would be about a -20.
Maybe
> > the CJ a -10.
> >
> > Note I'm note talking about off road capability - no arguments there -
> most
> > Jeeps do well there. Note I say most Jeeps - the Liberty being the
> > exception. Just plain reliability, mechanical, etc, the Jeeps fall
apart.
> >
> > Sorry to you Jeep lovers - just from my and every one I know experience.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Paul Thomas" <Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com> wrote in message
> > news:8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.co m...
> > > I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
> > > discussion about this SUV in the newsgroups. I understand overall it
> > > is a pretty good vehicle. There are a couple of things about liberty
> > > that I would like to know. Safety and Reliability.
> > >
> > > Safety : How safe is it? I am new to SUVs and I hear that SUVs are
> > > vulnerable to tip over. How is jeep's record on this? How about other
> > > safety features?
> > >
> > >
> > > Reliability : How reliable is Liberty? I am going to use it only to
> > > commute to and from work and may be some camping. Strictly no rock
> > > climbing or extreme off roading of any sort. If you give Honda a
> > > reliability rating of 10 and a Ford a reliability rating of 4 how
> > > would you rate Liberty? ( Remember no offroading). Does the parts
> > > start malfunctioning after a couple of years? (I hear Nissan Xterra
> > > has this problem )
> > >
> > >
> > > I am a novice in autos. What is the deal with independent front
> > > suspension and solid rear axle? How does it affect comfort and
> > > reliability?
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your help,
> > >
> > > Paul Thomas
> >
> >
>
>
11-26-2003, 04:46 AM
#167
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Liberty : Reliability, Safety, IFS ??
Don wrote:
> Sorry if I pissed anyone off folks - no trolling intended.
>
> Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
> odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
> bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
> Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
>
> In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
> an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain.
For a real project like this I would have gone with a used military vehicle.
That Unimog isn't going to break on you, I can guarantee it. Of course, finding
one is a bit tough.
www.real4x4.com Now that's a 4*4 :)
> Sorry if I pissed anyone off folks - no trolling intended.
>
> Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
> odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
> bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
> Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
>
> In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
> an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain.
For a real project like this I would have gone with a used military vehicle.
That Unimog isn't going to break on you, I can guarantee it. Of course, finding
one is a bit tough.
www.real4x4.com Now that's a 4*4 :)
11-26-2003, 04:46 AM
#168
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Liberty : Reliability, Safety, IFS ??
Don wrote:
> Sorry if I pissed anyone off folks - no trolling intended.
>
> Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
> odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
> bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
> Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
>
> In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
> an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain.
For a real project like this I would have gone with a used military vehicle.
That Unimog isn't going to break on you, I can guarantee it. Of course, finding
one is a bit tough.
www.real4x4.com Now that's a 4*4 :)
> Sorry if I pissed anyone off folks - no trolling intended.
>
> Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
> odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
> bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
> Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
>
> In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
> an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain.
For a real project like this I would have gone with a used military vehicle.
That Unimog isn't going to break on you, I can guarantee it. Of course, finding
one is a bit tough.
www.real4x4.com Now that's a 4*4 :)
11-26-2003, 04:46 AM
#169
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Liberty : Reliability, Safety, IFS ??
Don wrote:
> Sorry if I pissed anyone off folks - no trolling intended.
>
> Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
> odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
> bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
> Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
>
> In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
> an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain.
For a real project like this I would have gone with a used military vehicle.
That Unimog isn't going to break on you, I can guarantee it. Of course, finding
one is a bit tough.
www.real4x4.com Now that's a 4*4 :)
> Sorry if I pissed anyone off folks - no trolling intended.
>
> Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has had a
> odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard many
> bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
> Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
>
> In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to supervise
> an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain.
For a real project like this I would have gone with a used military vehicle.
That Unimog isn't going to break on you, I can guarantee it. Of course, finding
one is a bit tough.
www.real4x4.com Now that's a 4*4 :)
11-26-2003, 04:21 PM
#170
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Liberty : Reliability, Safety, IFS ??
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1E_wb.15510$n56.13198@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
> Don wrote:
>
> > Sorry if I pissed anyone off folks - no trolling intended.
> >
> > Paul asked for opinions and I offered mine. Everyone I know that has
had a
> > odern Jeep wishes he hadn't. Now to qualify that - I have not heard
many
> > bad things about the CJ/Wrangler - these were all the Cherokee/Grand
> > Cherokee/Larado (sp?) models.
> >
> > In addition, we bought a bunch of them as construction vehicles to
supervise
> > an off road project - not a lot of mud - just a lot of rough terrain.
>
> For a real project like this I would have gone with a used military
vehicle.
> That Unimog isn't going to break on you, I can guarantee it. Of course,
finding
> one is a bit tough.
>
> www.real4x4.com Now that's a 4*4 :)
>
one of my friends has two old ex-army mogs. one he replaced the engine with
one from a Combine Harvester. lots of low end torque and very little high
end power. so it's never going to stall but he's not very likely to set a
land speed record... lol
rhys
