First automatic
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
I am somewhat confused about his complaint.
If he is trying to shift into 4Lo at any engine speed above idle he should
certainly expect a sudden jolt and perhaps some grinding from the 4Lo
non-synchromeshed gears
When I was in Canada this summer in my WJ (with Select-Trac) I was in 4Hi
for the smoother parts and in 4Lo for the fun parts (please see Mike
Romain's excellent Labor Day pix) and do not recall any jerking other than
the initial shift into 4Lo but then I wasn't trying to set any speed records
either.
When the going was rough I was in 4Lo in 1st gear and when the roadway
smoothed for an extended bit I would slide the gear shifter to 2, 3, or
sometimes into Drive. The only 'unusual' effect was caused by the 2.71:1
reduction..... The acceleration/deceleration is proportionally greater and
should be expected because that is the result of torque multiplication ....
that is the reason you wanted to be in 4Lo in the first place.
I'm not sure how to comment on your shifter mishaps, perhaps you are just
not used to 'gateless" shifters. The shifter, in my WJ, operates in the
same manner as every automatic I have driven since the pushbutton and thumb
lever days.
That being said it is certainly different than the throws requires to change
gears in a manual transmission.
How fast are you trying to go in 4Lo?
Mike's Pix
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2120343242
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"KJ.Kate" <KJ.Kate@WhoseHotMail.com> wrote in message
news:PRR9f.28184$wG.21502@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. .
> Hey Fred,
> Loved your post, really. Well written, informative and entertaining.
> From one 'girls jeep' owner to another
> I wish I could hug ya....
>
> KJKate
> 2O|||||||O5 Liberty
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> : My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
> : my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
> : lack of one) in 4L.
> :
> : I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
> : play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
> : things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
> : crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> : rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
> :
> : But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
> : in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I
> was
> : even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> : rammed from behind by a semi.
> :
> : I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a
> gear
> : and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
> : but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
> : sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> : anything but make things worse.
> :
> : Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
> : how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> : damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it
> does
> : it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
> : would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> : engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
> : a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
> :
> : But they evidently didn't even try.
> :
> : While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> : guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think
> DC
> : must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> : Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> : stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know
> what
> : you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> : supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> : "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> : around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
> : Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed
> to
> : come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
> :
> : So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
> : brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out
> of
> : trouble.
> :
> : But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> : "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
> :
> : Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
> : that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> : take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its
> "no-step"
> : door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in
> a
> : logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain
> on
> : the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> : recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there
> would
> : be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
> : they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
> :
> : Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
> :
> : Cheers,
> : Fred Klingener
> :
> :
>
>
If he is trying to shift into 4Lo at any engine speed above idle he should
certainly expect a sudden jolt and perhaps some grinding from the 4Lo
non-synchromeshed gears
When I was in Canada this summer in my WJ (with Select-Trac) I was in 4Hi
for the smoother parts and in 4Lo for the fun parts (please see Mike
Romain's excellent Labor Day pix) and do not recall any jerking other than
the initial shift into 4Lo but then I wasn't trying to set any speed records
either.
When the going was rough I was in 4Lo in 1st gear and when the roadway
smoothed for an extended bit I would slide the gear shifter to 2, 3, or
sometimes into Drive. The only 'unusual' effect was caused by the 2.71:1
reduction..... The acceleration/deceleration is proportionally greater and
should be expected because that is the result of torque multiplication ....
that is the reason you wanted to be in 4Lo in the first place.
I'm not sure how to comment on your shifter mishaps, perhaps you are just
not used to 'gateless" shifters. The shifter, in my WJ, operates in the
same manner as every automatic I have driven since the pushbutton and thumb
lever days.
That being said it is certainly different than the throws requires to change
gears in a manual transmission.
How fast are you trying to go in 4Lo?
Mike's Pix
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2120343242
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"KJ.Kate" <KJ.Kate@WhoseHotMail.com> wrote in message
news:PRR9f.28184$wG.21502@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. .
> Hey Fred,
> Loved your post, really. Well written, informative and entertaining.
> From one 'girls jeep' owner to another
> I wish I could hug ya....
>
> KJKate
> 2O|||||||O5 Liberty
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
> : My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
> : my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
> : lack of one) in 4L.
> :
> : I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
> : play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
> : things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
> : crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
> : rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
> :
> : But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
> : in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I
> was
> : even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
> : rammed from behind by a semi.
> :
> : I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a
> gear
> : and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
> : but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
> : sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
> : anything but make things worse.
> :
> : Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
> : how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
> : damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it
> does
> : it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
> : would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
> : engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
> : a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
> :
> : But they evidently didn't even try.
> :
> : While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
> : guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think
> DC
> : must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
> : Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
> : stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know
> what
> : you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
> : supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
> : "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
> : around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
> : Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed
> to
> : come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
> :
> : So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
> : brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out
> of
> : trouble.
> :
> : But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
> : "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
> :
> : Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
> : that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
> : take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its
> "no-step"
> : door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in
> a
> : logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain
> on
> : the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
> : recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there
> would
> : be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
> : they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
> :
> : Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
> :
> : Cheers,
> : Fred Klingener
> :
> :
>
>
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
Perhaps the new WK Grand Cherokee's are different.
We know he has a Limited so we know it has a V-8 of unknown size.. He says
it has all the fancy differentials so perhaps it is the Quadra-Trac II.
Perhaps if we factor in the V-8's power, the 3.73 gearing, and the Vari-Lok
differentials there is considerably more of a 'jerk' than shifting gears in
4Lo than you might expect in a 4 cylinder Wrangler with a stick..
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Earle Horton" <nurse-nospam-busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4367bb18$1_1@alt.athenanews.com...
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving.
> I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your
> metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>>
>> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
>> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
>> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
>> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
>> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>>
>> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
>> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I
>> was
>> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
>> rammed from behind by a semi.
>>
>> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a
>> gear
>> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
>> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
>> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
>> anything but make things worse.
>>
>> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
>> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
>> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it
>> does
>> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
>> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
>> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
>> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>>
>> But they evidently didn't even try.
>>
>> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
>> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
>> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
>> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
>> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
>> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
>> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
>> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
>> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
>> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed
>> to
>> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>>
>> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
>> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out
>> of
>> trouble.
>>
>> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
>> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>>
>> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
>> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
>> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its
>> "no-step"
>> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
>> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain
>> on
>> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
>> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there
>> would
>> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
>> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>>
>> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Fred Klingener
>>
>>
>>
>
>
We know he has a Limited so we know it has a V-8 of unknown size.. He says
it has all the fancy differentials so perhaps it is the Quadra-Trac II.
Perhaps if we factor in the V-8's power, the 3.73 gearing, and the Vari-Lok
differentials there is considerably more of a 'jerk' than shifting gears in
4Lo than you might expect in a 4 cylinder Wrangler with a stick..
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Earle Horton" <nurse-nospam-busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4367bb18$1_1@alt.athenanews.com...
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving.
> I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your
> metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>>
>> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
>> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
>> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
>> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
>> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>>
>> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
>> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I
>> was
>> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
>> rammed from behind by a semi.
>>
>> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a
>> gear
>> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
>> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
>> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
>> anything but make things worse.
>>
>> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
>> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
>> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it
>> does
>> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
>> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
>> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
>> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>>
>> But they evidently didn't even try.
>>
>> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
>> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
>> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
>> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
>> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
>> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
>> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
>> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
>> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
>> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed
>> to
>> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>>
>> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
>> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out
>> of
>> trouble.
>>
>> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
>> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>>
>> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
>> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
>> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its
>> "no-step"
>> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
>> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain
>> on
>> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
>> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there
>> would
>> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
>> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>>
>> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Fred Klingener
>>
>>
>>
>
>
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
Perhaps the new WK Grand Cherokee's are different.
We know he has a Limited so we know it has a V-8 of unknown size.. He says
it has all the fancy differentials so perhaps it is the Quadra-Trac II.
Perhaps if we factor in the V-8's power, the 3.73 gearing, and the Vari-Lok
differentials there is considerably more of a 'jerk' than shifting gears in
4Lo than you might expect in a 4 cylinder Wrangler with a stick..
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Earle Horton" <nurse-nospam-busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4367bb18$1_1@alt.athenanews.com...
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving.
> I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your
> metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>>
>> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
>> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
>> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
>> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
>> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>>
>> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
>> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I
>> was
>> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
>> rammed from behind by a semi.
>>
>> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a
>> gear
>> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
>> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
>> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
>> anything but make things worse.
>>
>> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
>> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
>> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it
>> does
>> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
>> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
>> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
>> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>>
>> But they evidently didn't even try.
>>
>> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
>> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
>> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
>> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
>> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
>> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
>> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
>> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
>> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
>> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed
>> to
>> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>>
>> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
>> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out
>> of
>> trouble.
>>
>> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
>> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>>
>> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
>> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
>> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its
>> "no-step"
>> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
>> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain
>> on
>> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
>> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there
>> would
>> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
>> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>>
>> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Fred Klingener
>>
>>
>>
>
>
We know he has a Limited so we know it has a V-8 of unknown size.. He says
it has all the fancy differentials so perhaps it is the Quadra-Trac II.
Perhaps if we factor in the V-8's power, the 3.73 gearing, and the Vari-Lok
differentials there is considerably more of a 'jerk' than shifting gears in
4Lo than you might expect in a 4 cylinder Wrangler with a stick..
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Earle Horton" <nurse-nospam-busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4367bb18$1_1@alt.athenanews.com...
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving.
> I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your
> metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>>
>> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
>> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
>> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
>> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
>> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>>
>> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
>> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I
>> was
>> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
>> rammed from behind by a semi.
>>
>> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a
>> gear
>> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
>> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
>> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
>> anything but make things worse.
>>
>> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
>> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
>> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it
>> does
>> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
>> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
>> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
>> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>>
>> But they evidently didn't even try.
>>
>> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
>> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
>> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
>> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
>> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
>> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
>> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
>> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
>> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
>> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed
>> to
>> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>>
>> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
>> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out
>> of
>> trouble.
>>
>> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
>> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>>
>> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
>> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
>> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its
>> "no-step"
>> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
>> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain
>> on
>> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
>> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there
>> would
>> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
>> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>>
>> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Fred Klingener
>>
>>
>>
>
>
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
Perhaps the new WK Grand Cherokee's are different.
We know he has a Limited so we know it has a V-8 of unknown size.. He says
it has all the fancy differentials so perhaps it is the Quadra-Trac II.
Perhaps if we factor in the V-8's power, the 3.73 gearing, and the Vari-Lok
differentials there is considerably more of a 'jerk' than shifting gears in
4Lo than you might expect in a 4 cylinder Wrangler with a stick..
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Earle Horton" <nurse-nospam-busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4367bb18$1_1@alt.athenanews.com...
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving.
> I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your
> metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>>
>> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
>> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
>> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
>> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
>> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>>
>> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
>> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I
>> was
>> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
>> rammed from behind by a semi.
>>
>> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a
>> gear
>> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
>> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
>> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
>> anything but make things worse.
>>
>> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
>> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
>> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it
>> does
>> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
>> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
>> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
>> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>>
>> But they evidently didn't even try.
>>
>> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
>> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
>> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
>> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
>> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
>> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
>> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
>> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
>> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
>> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed
>> to
>> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>>
>> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
>> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out
>> of
>> trouble.
>>
>> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
>> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>>
>> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
>> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
>> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its
>> "no-step"
>> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
>> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain
>> on
>> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
>> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there
>> would
>> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
>> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>>
>> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Fred Klingener
>>
>>
>>
>
>
We know he has a Limited so we know it has a V-8 of unknown size.. He says
it has all the fancy differentials so perhaps it is the Quadra-Trac II.
Perhaps if we factor in the V-8's power, the 3.73 gearing, and the Vari-Lok
differentials there is considerably more of a 'jerk' than shifting gears in
4Lo than you might expect in a 4 cylinder Wrangler with a stick..
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Earle Horton" <nurse-nospam-busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4367bb18$1_1@alt.athenanews.com...
> You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive
> magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.
>
> I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the
> automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other
> hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving.
> I
> suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to
> driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine
> braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real
> slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual
> transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your
> metaphor
> of driving into a concrete wall.
>
> Earle
>
> "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbucket@brockeng.com> wrote in message
> news:B8N9f.4497$Lv.1799@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net ...
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>>
>> I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work
> and
>> play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given
> vehicle,
>> things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse
> stream
>> crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is
>> rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.
>>
>> But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I
> stay
>> in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I
>> was
>> even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being
>> rammed from behind by a semi.
>>
>> I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a
>> gear
>> and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the
> clutch,
>> but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just
> happens
>> sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do
>> anything but make things worse.
>>
>> Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows
> exactly
>> how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows
>> damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it
>> does
>> it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so
> it
>> would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before
>> engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than
> on
>> a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.
>>
>> But they evidently didn't even try.
>>
>> While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service
>> guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC
>> must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.)
>> Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should
>> stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what
>> you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not
>> supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt -
>> "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement
>> around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally
> 6.)
>> Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed
>> to
>> come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."
>>
>> So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on
> the
>> brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out
>> of
>> trouble.
>>
>> But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the
>> "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.
>>
>> Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the
> fact
>> that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its
>> take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its
>> "no-step"
>> door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a
>> logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain
>> on
>> the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and
>> recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there
>> would
>> be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess
> maybe
>> they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.
>>
>> Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Fred Klingener
>>
>>
>>
>
>
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
I had no problems with my 4 watt GE handheld CB.
The radio sat on the shifter console and the remote antenna's magnetic mount
was either in the center of the roof between the rear doors when on-road or
in the center rear of the hood (cowl) when off-road so as to not be knocked
over by a low branch.
The only special steps I took in power wiring or antenna routing was to make
it so neither would get snagged accidentally.
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4367BE47.2075005F@sympatico.ca...
> Do you by any chance have a CB or other transmitter on board?
>
> Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
> shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
> point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
> CB.
>
> There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Fred Klingener wrote:
>>
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
>> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
>> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> <Snip>
The radio sat on the shifter console and the remote antenna's magnetic mount
was either in the center of the roof between the rear doors when on-road or
in the center rear of the hood (cowl) when off-road so as to not be knocked
over by a low branch.
The only special steps I took in power wiring or antenna routing was to make
it so neither would get snagged accidentally.
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4367BE47.2075005F@sympatico.ca...
> Do you by any chance have a CB or other transmitter on board?
>
> Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
> shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
> point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
> CB.
>
> There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Fred Klingener wrote:
>>
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
>> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
>> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> <Snip>
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
I had no problems with my 4 watt GE handheld CB.
The radio sat on the shifter console and the remote antenna's magnetic mount
was either in the center of the roof between the rear doors when on-road or
in the center rear of the hood (cowl) when off-road so as to not be knocked
over by a low branch.
The only special steps I took in power wiring or antenna routing was to make
it so neither would get snagged accidentally.
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4367BE47.2075005F@sympatico.ca...
> Do you by any chance have a CB or other transmitter on board?
>
> Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
> shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
> point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
> CB.
>
> There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Fred Klingener wrote:
>>
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
>> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
>> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> <Snip>
The radio sat on the shifter console and the remote antenna's magnetic mount
was either in the center of the roof between the rear doors when on-road or
in the center rear of the hood (cowl) when off-road so as to not be knocked
over by a low branch.
The only special steps I took in power wiring or antenna routing was to make
it so neither would get snagged accidentally.
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4367BE47.2075005F@sympatico.ca...
> Do you by any chance have a CB or other transmitter on board?
>
> Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
> shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
> point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
> CB.
>
> There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Fred Klingener wrote:
>>
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
>> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
>> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> <Snip>
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
I had no problems with my 4 watt GE handheld CB.
The radio sat on the shifter console and the remote antenna's magnetic mount
was either in the center of the roof between the rear doors when on-road or
in the center rear of the hood (cowl) when off-road so as to not be knocked
over by a low branch.
The only special steps I took in power wiring or antenna routing was to make
it so neither would get snagged accidentally.
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4367BE47.2075005F@sympatico.ca...
> Do you by any chance have a CB or other transmitter on board?
>
> Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
> shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
> point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
> CB.
>
> There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Fred Klingener wrote:
>>
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
>> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
>> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> <Snip>
The radio sat on the shifter console and the remote antenna's magnetic mount
was either in the center of the roof between the rear doors when on-road or
in the center rear of the hood (cowl) when off-road so as to not be knocked
over by a low branch.
The only special steps I took in power wiring or antenna routing was to make
it so neither would get snagged accidentally.
--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4367BE47.2075005F@sympatico.ca...
> Do you by any chance have a CB or other transmitter on board?
>
> Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the
> shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the
> point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his
> CB.
>
> There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Fred Klingener wrote:
>>
>> My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials)
>> is
>> my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the
>> complete
>> lack of one) in 4L.
>
> <Snip>
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
"Billy Ray" <Billy_Ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:574eb$436810eb$4831b233$17718@FUSE.NET...
> I am somewhat confused about his complaint.
>
> If he is trying to shift into 4Lo at any engine speed above idle he should
> certainly expect a sudden jolt and perhaps some grinding from the 4Lo
> non-synchromeshed gears
Yeah. That was the 'Obfuscation' part the dealer service guys tried to
throw in to avoid answering the questions. I'm only talking about what
happens in 4L here.
On the GCL, the computer manages the 4H -> 4L shift, and it's pretty fussy
about pre-conditions (0-3mph, transmission in neutral), so there's no upset
at all there.
>...
> When the going was rough I was in 4Lo in 1st gear and when the roadway
> smoothed for an extended bit I would slide the gear shifter to 2, 3, or
> sometimes into Drive. The only 'unusual' effect was caused by the 2.71:1
> reduction..... The acceleration/deceleration is proportionally greater
and
> should be expected because that is the result of torque multiplication
.....
> that is the reason you wanted to be in 4Lo in the first place.
Sure.
> I'm not sure how to comment on your shifter mishaps, perhaps you are just
> not used to 'gateless" shifters. The shifter, in my WJ, operates in the
> same manner as every automatic I have driven since the pushbutton and
thumb
> lever days.
This is the first car I ever drove with the motorcycle shifter, so I'm
certainly 'not used to it', but I don't have a clue how I could use it
differently - click it up or down and wait for the computer to feel like
shifting.
> That being said it is certainly different than the throws requires to
change
> gears in a manual transmission.
I just don't seem to have a problem when I can get to the clutch, shifter,
and the throttle. I think I've got that down. I just want the computer to
do the same thing. Actually, I want it to do it better.
> How fast are you trying to go in 4Lo?
Where it was most irritating was when I was cruising along in 4L/2 at a few
mpg, then at the top of a stream embankment, shifting to 1. I'd head down
the embankment struggling to catch the breath knocked out of me when I
slammed into the seatbelts.
Another poster suggested things would improve as the transmission broke in.
I sure hope so.
Thanks,
Fred
news:574eb$436810eb$4831b233$17718@FUSE.NET...
> I am somewhat confused about his complaint.
>
> If he is trying to shift into 4Lo at any engine speed above idle he should
> certainly expect a sudden jolt and perhaps some grinding from the 4Lo
> non-synchromeshed gears
Yeah. That was the 'Obfuscation' part the dealer service guys tried to
throw in to avoid answering the questions. I'm only talking about what
happens in 4L here.
On the GCL, the computer manages the 4H -> 4L shift, and it's pretty fussy
about pre-conditions (0-3mph, transmission in neutral), so there's no upset
at all there.
>...
> When the going was rough I was in 4Lo in 1st gear and when the roadway
> smoothed for an extended bit I would slide the gear shifter to 2, 3, or
> sometimes into Drive. The only 'unusual' effect was caused by the 2.71:1
> reduction..... The acceleration/deceleration is proportionally greater
and
> should be expected because that is the result of torque multiplication
.....
> that is the reason you wanted to be in 4Lo in the first place.
Sure.
> I'm not sure how to comment on your shifter mishaps, perhaps you are just
> not used to 'gateless" shifters. The shifter, in my WJ, operates in the
> same manner as every automatic I have driven since the pushbutton and
thumb
> lever days.
This is the first car I ever drove with the motorcycle shifter, so I'm
certainly 'not used to it', but I don't have a clue how I could use it
differently - click it up or down and wait for the computer to feel like
shifting.
> That being said it is certainly different than the throws requires to
change
> gears in a manual transmission.
I just don't seem to have a problem when I can get to the clutch, shifter,
and the throttle. I think I've got that down. I just want the computer to
do the same thing. Actually, I want it to do it better.
> How fast are you trying to go in 4Lo?
Where it was most irritating was when I was cruising along in 4L/2 at a few
mpg, then at the top of a stream embankment, shifting to 1. I'd head down
the embankment struggling to catch the breath knocked out of me when I
slammed into the seatbelts.
Another poster suggested things would improve as the transmission broke in.
I sure hope so.
Thanks,
Fred
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
"Billy Ray" <Billy_Ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:574eb$436810eb$4831b233$17718@FUSE.NET...
> I am somewhat confused about his complaint.
>
> If he is trying to shift into 4Lo at any engine speed above idle he should
> certainly expect a sudden jolt and perhaps some grinding from the 4Lo
> non-synchromeshed gears
Yeah. That was the 'Obfuscation' part the dealer service guys tried to
throw in to avoid answering the questions. I'm only talking about what
happens in 4L here.
On the GCL, the computer manages the 4H -> 4L shift, and it's pretty fussy
about pre-conditions (0-3mph, transmission in neutral), so there's no upset
at all there.
>...
> When the going was rough I was in 4Lo in 1st gear and when the roadway
> smoothed for an extended bit I would slide the gear shifter to 2, 3, or
> sometimes into Drive. The only 'unusual' effect was caused by the 2.71:1
> reduction..... The acceleration/deceleration is proportionally greater
and
> should be expected because that is the result of torque multiplication
.....
> that is the reason you wanted to be in 4Lo in the first place.
Sure.
> I'm not sure how to comment on your shifter mishaps, perhaps you are just
> not used to 'gateless" shifters. The shifter, in my WJ, operates in the
> same manner as every automatic I have driven since the pushbutton and
thumb
> lever days.
This is the first car I ever drove with the motorcycle shifter, so I'm
certainly 'not used to it', but I don't have a clue how I could use it
differently - click it up or down and wait for the computer to feel like
shifting.
> That being said it is certainly different than the throws requires to
change
> gears in a manual transmission.
I just don't seem to have a problem when I can get to the clutch, shifter,
and the throttle. I think I've got that down. I just want the computer to
do the same thing. Actually, I want it to do it better.
> How fast are you trying to go in 4Lo?
Where it was most irritating was when I was cruising along in 4L/2 at a few
mpg, then at the top of a stream embankment, shifting to 1. I'd head down
the embankment struggling to catch the breath knocked out of me when I
slammed into the seatbelts.
Another poster suggested things would improve as the transmission broke in.
I sure hope so.
Thanks,
Fred
news:574eb$436810eb$4831b233$17718@FUSE.NET...
> I am somewhat confused about his complaint.
>
> If he is trying to shift into 4Lo at any engine speed above idle he should
> certainly expect a sudden jolt and perhaps some grinding from the 4Lo
> non-synchromeshed gears
Yeah. That was the 'Obfuscation' part the dealer service guys tried to
throw in to avoid answering the questions. I'm only talking about what
happens in 4L here.
On the GCL, the computer manages the 4H -> 4L shift, and it's pretty fussy
about pre-conditions (0-3mph, transmission in neutral), so there's no upset
at all there.
>...
> When the going was rough I was in 4Lo in 1st gear and when the roadway
> smoothed for an extended bit I would slide the gear shifter to 2, 3, or
> sometimes into Drive. The only 'unusual' effect was caused by the 2.71:1
> reduction..... The acceleration/deceleration is proportionally greater
and
> should be expected because that is the result of torque multiplication
.....
> that is the reason you wanted to be in 4Lo in the first place.
Sure.
> I'm not sure how to comment on your shifter mishaps, perhaps you are just
> not used to 'gateless" shifters. The shifter, in my WJ, operates in the
> same manner as every automatic I have driven since the pushbutton and
thumb
> lever days.
This is the first car I ever drove with the motorcycle shifter, so I'm
certainly 'not used to it', but I don't have a clue how I could use it
differently - click it up or down and wait for the computer to feel like
shifting.
> That being said it is certainly different than the throws requires to
change
> gears in a manual transmission.
I just don't seem to have a problem when I can get to the clutch, shifter,
and the throttle. I think I've got that down. I just want the computer to
do the same thing. Actually, I want it to do it better.
> How fast are you trying to go in 4Lo?
Where it was most irritating was when I was cruising along in 4L/2 at a few
mpg, then at the top of a stream embankment, shifting to 1. I'd head down
the embankment struggling to catch the breath knocked out of me when I
slammed into the seatbelts.
Another poster suggested things would improve as the transmission broke in.
I sure hope so.
Thanks,
Fred
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First automatic
"Billy Ray" <Billy_Ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:574eb$436810eb$4831b233$17718@FUSE.NET...
> I am somewhat confused about his complaint.
>
> If he is trying to shift into 4Lo at any engine speed above idle he should
> certainly expect a sudden jolt and perhaps some grinding from the 4Lo
> non-synchromeshed gears
Yeah. That was the 'Obfuscation' part the dealer service guys tried to
throw in to avoid answering the questions. I'm only talking about what
happens in 4L here.
On the GCL, the computer manages the 4H -> 4L shift, and it's pretty fussy
about pre-conditions (0-3mph, transmission in neutral), so there's no upset
at all there.
>...
> When the going was rough I was in 4Lo in 1st gear and when the roadway
> smoothed for an extended bit I would slide the gear shifter to 2, 3, or
> sometimes into Drive. The only 'unusual' effect was caused by the 2.71:1
> reduction..... The acceleration/deceleration is proportionally greater
and
> should be expected because that is the result of torque multiplication
.....
> that is the reason you wanted to be in 4Lo in the first place.
Sure.
> I'm not sure how to comment on your shifter mishaps, perhaps you are just
> not used to 'gateless" shifters. The shifter, in my WJ, operates in the
> same manner as every automatic I have driven since the pushbutton and
thumb
> lever days.
This is the first car I ever drove with the motorcycle shifter, so I'm
certainly 'not used to it', but I don't have a clue how I could use it
differently - click it up or down and wait for the computer to feel like
shifting.
> That being said it is certainly different than the throws requires to
change
> gears in a manual transmission.
I just don't seem to have a problem when I can get to the clutch, shifter,
and the throttle. I think I've got that down. I just want the computer to
do the same thing. Actually, I want it to do it better.
> How fast are you trying to go in 4Lo?
Where it was most irritating was when I was cruising along in 4L/2 at a few
mpg, then at the top of a stream embankment, shifting to 1. I'd head down
the embankment struggling to catch the breath knocked out of me when I
slammed into the seatbelts.
Another poster suggested things would improve as the transmission broke in.
I sure hope so.
Thanks,
Fred
news:574eb$436810eb$4831b233$17718@FUSE.NET...
> I am somewhat confused about his complaint.
>
> If he is trying to shift into 4Lo at any engine speed above idle he should
> certainly expect a sudden jolt and perhaps some grinding from the 4Lo
> non-synchromeshed gears
Yeah. That was the 'Obfuscation' part the dealer service guys tried to
throw in to avoid answering the questions. I'm only talking about what
happens in 4L here.
On the GCL, the computer manages the 4H -> 4L shift, and it's pretty fussy
about pre-conditions (0-3mph, transmission in neutral), so there's no upset
at all there.
>...
> When the going was rough I was in 4Lo in 1st gear and when the roadway
> smoothed for an extended bit I would slide the gear shifter to 2, 3, or
> sometimes into Drive. The only 'unusual' effect was caused by the 2.71:1
> reduction..... The acceleration/deceleration is proportionally greater
and
> should be expected because that is the result of torque multiplication
.....
> that is the reason you wanted to be in 4Lo in the first place.
Sure.
> I'm not sure how to comment on your shifter mishaps, perhaps you are just
> not used to 'gateless" shifters. The shifter, in my WJ, operates in the
> same manner as every automatic I have driven since the pushbutton and
thumb
> lever days.
This is the first car I ever drove with the motorcycle shifter, so I'm
certainly 'not used to it', but I don't have a clue how I could use it
differently - click it up or down and wait for the computer to feel like
shifting.
> That being said it is certainly different than the throws requires to
change
> gears in a manual transmission.
I just don't seem to have a problem when I can get to the clutch, shifter,
and the throttle. I think I've got that down. I just want the computer to
do the same thing. Actually, I want it to do it better.
> How fast are you trying to go in 4Lo?
Where it was most irritating was when I was cruising along in 4L/2 at a few
mpg, then at the top of a stream embankment, shifting to 1. I'd head down
the embankment struggling to catch the breath knocked out of me when I
slammed into the seatbelts.
Another poster suggested things would improve as the transmission broke in.
I sure hope so.
Thanks,
Fred