Death Wobble (again)
07-25-2005, 03:24 PM
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Death Wobble (again)
Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
certainly trigger it again.
That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
DiezMon wrote:
> Ok, let me clarify MY post.
>
> I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then, we
> moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the one
> doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>
>>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>>many understand.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>extremetj wrote:
>>
>>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
>
> the
>
>>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>>>
>>>Larry
>>>
>>>
>>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews .com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>>>>
>>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
>>>>
>>>>Tim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
>
> message
>
>>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>>>>>
>>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>>>>>
>>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
certainly trigger it again.
That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
DiezMon wrote:
> Ok, let me clarify MY post.
>
> I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then, we
> moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the one
> doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>
>>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>>many understand.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>extremetj wrote:
>>
>>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
>
> the
>
>>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>>>
>>>Larry
>>>
>>>
>>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews .com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>>>>
>>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
>>>>
>>>>Tim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
>
> message
>
>>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>>>>>
>>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>>>>>
>>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
07-25-2005, 03:28 PM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Death Wobble (again)
I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
in and watch for yourself??
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
> Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
> root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
> the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
> It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
> that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
> complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
> design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
> cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
> brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
> SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
> difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
> steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
> different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
> control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
> can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
> stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
> Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
> tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
> VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
> replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>
> Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
> skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
> but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
> certainly trigger it again.
>
> That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
> Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>
> DiezMon wrote:
> > Ok, let me clarify MY post.
> >
> > I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
we
> > moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
one
> > doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
> >
> >>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
> >>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
> >>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
> >>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
> >>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
> >>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
> >>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
> >>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
> >>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
> >>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
> >>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
> >>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
> >>many understand.
> >>
> >>Jerry
> >>
> >>extremetj wrote:
> >>
> >>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
> >>>
> >>>Larry
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews .com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
> >>>>
> >>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
> >>>>
> >>>>Tim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >
> > message
> >
> >>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
> >>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
> >>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Jerry Bransford
> >>PP-ASEL N6TAY
> >>See the Geezer Jeep at
> >>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
in and watch for yourself??
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
> Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
> root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
> the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
> It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
> that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
> complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
> design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
> cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
> brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
> SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
> difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
> steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
> different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
> control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
> can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
> stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
> Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
> tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
> VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
> replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>
> Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
> skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
> but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
> certainly trigger it again.
>
> That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
> Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>
> DiezMon wrote:
> > Ok, let me clarify MY post.
> >
> > I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
we
> > moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
one
> > doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
> >
> >>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
> >>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
> >>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
> >>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
> >>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
> >>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
> >>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
> >>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
> >>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
> >>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
> >>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
> >>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
> >>many understand.
> >>
> >>Jerry
> >>
> >>extremetj wrote:
> >>
> >>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
> >>>
> >>>Larry
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews .com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
> >>>>
> >>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
> >>>>
> >>>>Tim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >
> > message
> >
> >>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
> >>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
> >>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Jerry Bransford
> >>PP-ASEL N6TAY
> >>See the Geezer Jeep at
> >>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
07-25-2005, 03:28 PM
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Death Wobble (again)
I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
in and watch for yourself??
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
> Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
> root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
> the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
> It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
> that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
> complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
> design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
> cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
> brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
> SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
> difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
> steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
> different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
> control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
> can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
> stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
> Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
> tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
> VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
> replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>
> Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
> skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
> but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
> certainly trigger it again.
>
> That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
> Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>
> DiezMon wrote:
> > Ok, let me clarify MY post.
> >
> > I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
we
> > moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
one
> > doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
> >
> >>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
> >>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
> >>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
> >>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
> >>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
> >>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
> >>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
> >>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
> >>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
> >>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
> >>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
> >>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
> >>many understand.
> >>
> >>Jerry
> >>
> >>extremetj wrote:
> >>
> >>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
> >>>
> >>>Larry
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews .com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
> >>>>
> >>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
> >>>>
> >>>>Tim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >
> > message
> >
> >>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
> >>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
> >>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Jerry Bransford
> >>PP-ASEL N6TAY
> >>See the Geezer Jeep at
> >>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
in and watch for yourself??
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
> Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
> root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
> the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
> It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
> that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
> complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
> design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
> cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
> brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
> SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
> difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
> steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
> different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
> control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
> can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
> stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
> Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
> tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
> VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
> replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>
> Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
> skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
> but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
> certainly trigger it again.
>
> That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
> Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>
> DiezMon wrote:
> > Ok, let me clarify MY post.
> >
> > I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
we
> > moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
one
> > doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
> >
> >>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
> >>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
> >>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
> >>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
> >>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
> >>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
> >>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
> >>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
> >>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
> >>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
> >>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
> >>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
> >>many understand.
> >>
> >>Jerry
> >>
> >>extremetj wrote:
> >>
> >>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
> >>>
> >>>Larry
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews .com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
> >>>>
> >>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
> >>>>
> >>>>Tim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >
> > message
> >
> >>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
> >>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
> >>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Jerry Bransford
> >>PP-ASEL N6TAY
> >>See the Geezer Jeep at
> >>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
07-25-2005, 03:28 PM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Death Wobble (again)
I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
in and watch for yourself??
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
> Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
> root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
> the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
> It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
> that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
> complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
> design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
> cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
> brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
> SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
> difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
> steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
> different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
> control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
> can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
> stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
> Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
> tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
> VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
> replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>
> Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
> skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
> but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
> certainly trigger it again.
>
> That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
> Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>
> DiezMon wrote:
> > Ok, let me clarify MY post.
> >
> > I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
we
> > moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
one
> > doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
> >
> >>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
> >>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
> >>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
> >>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
> >>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
> >>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
> >>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
> >>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
> >>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
> >>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
> >>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
> >>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
> >>many understand.
> >>
> >>Jerry
> >>
> >>extremetj wrote:
> >>
> >>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
> >>>
> >>>Larry
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews .com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
> >>>>
> >>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
> >>>>
> >>>>Tim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >
> > message
> >
> >>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
> >>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
> >>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Jerry Bransford
> >>PP-ASEL N6TAY
> >>See the Geezer Jeep at
> >>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
in and watch for yourself??
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
> Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
> root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
> the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
> It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
> that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
> complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
> design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
> cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
> brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
> SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
> difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
> steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
> different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
> control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
> can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
> stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
> Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
> tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
> VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
> replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>
> Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
> skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
> but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
> certainly trigger it again.
>
> That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
> Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>
> DiezMon wrote:
> > Ok, let me clarify MY post.
> >
> > I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
we
> > moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
one
> > doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
> >
> >>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
> >>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
> >>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
> >>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
> >>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
> >>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
> >>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
> >>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
> >>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
> >>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
> >>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
> >>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
> >>many understand.
> >>
> >>Jerry
> >>
> >>extremetj wrote:
> >>
> >>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
> >>>
> >>>Larry
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews .com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
> >>>>
> >>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
> >>>>
> >>>>Tim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >
> > message
> >
> >>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
> >>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
> >>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Jerry Bransford
> >>PP-ASEL N6TAY
> >>See the Geezer Jeep at
> >>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
07-25-2005, 03:28 PM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Death Wobble (again)
I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
in and watch for yourself??
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
> Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
> root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
> the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
> It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
> that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
> complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
> design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
> cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
> brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
> SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
> difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
> steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
> different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
> control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
> can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
> stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
> Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
> tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
> VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
> replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>
> Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
> skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
> but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
> certainly trigger it again.
>
> That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
> Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>
> DiezMon wrote:
> > Ok, let me clarify MY post.
> >
> > I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
we
> > moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
one
> > doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
> >
> >>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
> >>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
> >>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
> >>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
> >>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
> >>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
> >>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
> >>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
> >>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
> >>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
> >>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
> >>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
> >>many understand.
> >>
> >>Jerry
> >>
> >>extremetj wrote:
> >>
> >>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
> >>>
> >>>Larry
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews .com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
> >>>>
> >>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
> >>>>
> >>>>Tim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >
> > message
> >
> >>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
> >>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
> >>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Jerry Bransford
> >>PP-ASEL N6TAY
> >>See the Geezer Jeep at
> >>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
in and watch for yourself??
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
> Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
> root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
> the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
> It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
> that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
> complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
> design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
> cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
> brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
> SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
> difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
> steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
> different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
> control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
> can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
> stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
> Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
> tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
> VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
> replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>
> Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
> skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
> but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
> certainly trigger it again.
>
> That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
> Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>
> DiezMon wrote:
> > Ok, let me clarify MY post.
> >
> > I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
we
> > moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
one
> > doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
> >
> >>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
> >>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
> >>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
> >>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
> >>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
> >>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
> >>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
> >>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
> >>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
> >>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
> >>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
> >>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
> >>many understand.
> >>
> >>Jerry
> >>
> >>extremetj wrote:
> >>
> >>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
> >>>
> >>>Larry
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews .com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
> >>>>
> >>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
> >>>>
> >>>>Tim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >
> > message
> >
> >>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
> >>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
> >>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Jerry Bransford
> >>PP-ASEL N6TAY
> >>See the Geezer Jeep at
> >>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
07-25-2005, 03:33 PM
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Death Wobble (again)
Believe what you want... it's clear you don't have a clue what an
industry-wide problem Death Wobble is and that it is not caused by bad
tires. I give up, it's clear you aren't up at all on this very
worrisome problem that has a lot of engineers working on a true fix.
IsellJeeps wrote:
> I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
> back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
> in and watch for yourself??
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
>
>>Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
>>root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
>>the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
>>It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
>>that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
>>complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
>>design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
>>cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
>>brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
>>SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
>>difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
>>steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
>>different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
>>control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
>>can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
>>stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
>>Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
>>tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
>>VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
>>replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>>
>>Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
>>skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
>>but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
>>certainly trigger it again.
>>
>>That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
>>Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>>
>>DiezMon wrote:
>>
>>>Ok, let me clarify MY post.
>>>
>>>I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
>
> we
>
>>>moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
>
> one
>
>>>doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>>>news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>>>>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>>>>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>>>>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>>>>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>>>>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>>>>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>>>>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>>>>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>>>>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>>>>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>>>>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>>>>many understand.
>>>>
>>>>Jerry
>>>>
>>>>extremetj wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>Larry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easyne ws.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>
>>>message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>>>>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>>>>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Jerry Bransford
>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
industry-wide problem Death Wobble is and that it is not caused by bad
tires. I give up, it's clear you aren't up at all on this very
worrisome problem that has a lot of engineers working on a true fix.
IsellJeeps wrote:
> I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
> back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
> in and watch for yourself??
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
>
>>Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
>>root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
>>the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
>>It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
>>that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
>>complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
>>design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
>>cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
>>brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
>>SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
>>difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
>>steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
>>different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
>>control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
>>can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
>>stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
>>Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
>>tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
>>VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
>>replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>>
>>Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
>>skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
>>but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
>>certainly trigger it again.
>>
>>That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
>>Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>>
>>DiezMon wrote:
>>
>>>Ok, let me clarify MY post.
>>>
>>>I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
>
> we
>
>>>moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
>
> one
>
>>>doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>>>news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>>>>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>>>>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>>>>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>>>>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>>>>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>>>>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>>>>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>>>>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>>>>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>>>>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>>>>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>>>>many understand.
>>>>
>>>>Jerry
>>>>
>>>>extremetj wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>Larry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easyne ws.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>
>>>message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>>>>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>>>>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Jerry Bransford
>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
07-25-2005, 03:33 PM
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Death Wobble (again)
Believe what you want... it's clear you don't have a clue what an
industry-wide problem Death Wobble is and that it is not caused by bad
tires. I give up, it's clear you aren't up at all on this very
worrisome problem that has a lot of engineers working on a true fix.
IsellJeeps wrote:
> I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
> back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
> in and watch for yourself??
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
>
>>Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
>>root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
>>the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
>>It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
>>that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
>>complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
>>design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
>>cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
>>brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
>>SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
>>difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
>>steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
>>different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
>>control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
>>can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
>>stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
>>Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
>>tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
>>VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
>>replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>>
>>Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
>>skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
>>but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
>>certainly trigger it again.
>>
>>That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
>>Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>>
>>DiezMon wrote:
>>
>>>Ok, let me clarify MY post.
>>>
>>>I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
>
> we
>
>>>moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
>
> one
>
>>>doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>>>news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>>>>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>>>>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>>>>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>>>>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>>>>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>>>>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>>>>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>>>>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>>>>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>>>>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>>>>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>>>>many understand.
>>>>
>>>>Jerry
>>>>
>>>>extremetj wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>Larry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easyne ws.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>
>>>message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>>>>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>>>>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Jerry Bransford
>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
industry-wide problem Death Wobble is and that it is not caused by bad
tires. I give up, it's clear you aren't up at all on this very
worrisome problem that has a lot of engineers working on a true fix.
IsellJeeps wrote:
> I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
> back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
> in and watch for yourself??
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
>
>>Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
>>root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
>>the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
>>It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
>>that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
>>complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
>>design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
>>cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
>>brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
>>SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
>>difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
>>steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
>>different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
>>control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
>>can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
>>stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
>>Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
>>tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
>>VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
>>replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>>
>>Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
>>skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
>>but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
>>certainly trigger it again.
>>
>>That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
>>Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>>
>>DiezMon wrote:
>>
>>>Ok, let me clarify MY post.
>>>
>>>I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
>
> we
>
>>>moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
>
> one
>
>>>doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>>>news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>>>>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>>>>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>>>>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>>>>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>>>>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>>>>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>>>>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>>>>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>>>>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>>>>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>>>>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>>>>many understand.
>>>>
>>>>Jerry
>>>>
>>>>extremetj wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>Larry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easyne ws.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>
>>>message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>>>>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>>>>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Jerry Bransford
>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
07-25-2005, 03:33 PM
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Death Wobble (again)
Believe what you want... it's clear you don't have a clue what an
industry-wide problem Death Wobble is and that it is not caused by bad
tires. I give up, it's clear you aren't up at all on this very
worrisome problem that has a lot of engineers working on a true fix.
IsellJeeps wrote:
> I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
> back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
> in and watch for yourself??
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
>
>>Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
>>root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
>>the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
>>It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
>>that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
>>complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
>>design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
>>cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
>>brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
>>SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
>>difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
>>steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
>>different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
>>control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
>>can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
>>stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
>>Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
>>tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
>>VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
>>replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>>
>>Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
>>skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
>>but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
>>certainly trigger it again.
>>
>>That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
>>Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>>
>>DiezMon wrote:
>>
>>>Ok, let me clarify MY post.
>>>
>>>I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
>
> we
>
>>>moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
>
> one
>
>>>doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>>>news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>>>>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>>>>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>>>>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>>>>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>>>>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>>>>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>>>>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>>>>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>>>>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>>>>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>>>>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>>>>many understand.
>>>>
>>>>Jerry
>>>>
>>>>extremetj wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>Larry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easyne ws.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>
>>>message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>>>>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>>>>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Jerry Bransford
>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
industry-wide problem Death Wobble is and that it is not caused by bad
tires. I give up, it's clear you aren't up at all on this very
worrisome problem that has a lot of engineers working on a true fix.
IsellJeeps wrote:
> I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
> back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
> in and watch for yourself??
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
>
>>Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
>>root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
>>the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
>>It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
>>that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
>>complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
>>design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
>>cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
>>brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
>>SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
>>difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
>>steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
>>different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
>>control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
>>can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
>>stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
>>Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
>>tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
>>VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
>>replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>>
>>Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
>>skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
>>but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
>>certainly trigger it again.
>>
>>That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
>>Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>>
>>DiezMon wrote:
>>
>>>Ok, let me clarify MY post.
>>>
>>>I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
>
> we
>
>>>moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
>
> one
>
>>>doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>>>news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>>>>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>>>>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>>>>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>>>>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>>>>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>>>>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>>>>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>>>>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>>>>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>>>>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>>>>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>>>>many understand.
>>>>
>>>>Jerry
>>>>
>>>>extremetj wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>Larry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easyne ws.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>
>>>message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>>>>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>>>>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Jerry Bransford
>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
07-25-2005, 03:33 PM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Death Wobble (again)
Believe what you want... it's clear you don't have a clue what an
industry-wide problem Death Wobble is and that it is not caused by bad
tires. I give up, it's clear you aren't up at all on this very
worrisome problem that has a lot of engineers working on a true fix.
IsellJeeps wrote:
> I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
> back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
> in and watch for yourself??
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
>
>>Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
>>root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
>>the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
>>It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
>>that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
>>complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
>>design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
>>cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
>>brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
>>SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
>>difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
>>steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
>>different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
>>control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
>>can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
>>stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
>>Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
>>tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
>>VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
>>replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>>
>>Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
>>skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
>>but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
>>certainly trigger it again.
>>
>>That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
>>Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>>
>>DiezMon wrote:
>>
>>>Ok, let me clarify MY post.
>>>
>>>I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
>
> we
>
>>>moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
>
> one
>
>>>doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>>>news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>>>>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>>>>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>>>>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>>>>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>>>>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>>>>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>>>>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>>>>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>>>>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>>>>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>>>>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>>>>many understand.
>>>>
>>>>Jerry
>>>>
>>>>extremetj wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>Larry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easyne ws.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>
>>>message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>>>>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>>>>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Jerry Bransford
>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
industry-wide problem Death Wobble is and that it is not caused by bad
tires. I give up, it's clear you aren't up at all on this very
worrisome problem that has a lot of engineers working on a true fix.
IsellJeeps wrote:
> I have a 03 with 20K miles on my lot SEVERE DW as we speak... when I get
> back from tire & wheel connection DW will be cured would you like to fly
> in and watch for yourself??
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:30bFe.19643$Eo.2861@fed1read04...
>
>>Tim, I don't want to continue beating a dead horse but finding the true
>>root cause of Death Wobble, which is common to more vehicles than just
>>the TJ, is seldom found by a cursory checking out of the front-end.
>>It's hard to find and it is generally a combination of several problems
>>that cumulatively work together to cause DW. It is actually a very
>>complex geometry and design problem that makes this kind of front-end
>>design prone to having DW. It is not just tires by themselves that
>>cause this problem that is actually an industry-wide problem for many
>>brands of vehicles with similar front-end designs. Now if it is just
>>SHIMMY, then yes tires can be the entire cause. But their is a HUGE
>>difference between shimmy and true Death Wobble. Shimmy causes the
>>steering wheel to wiggle back and forth. Death Wobble is a totally
>>different problem that causes the Jeep to feel like it has gone out of
>>control with shaking so severe you can't read your gauges and all you
>>can do is pull over to the side of the road to slow down enough so it
>>stops. Many people think a moderate to even a bad shimmy is the same as
>>Death Wobble so that may be the reason some think that replacing the
>>tires is the cure. But if it is TRUE Death Wobble which is an EXTREMELY
>>VIOLENT problem with the front end that scares the driver half-to-death,
>>replacing tires is NOT the cure. Not even close.
>>
>>Replacing tires to cure DW is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous
>>skin lesion and pronouncing it cured. It may make the symtom go away
>>but a future small tire problem that should not BY ITSELF cause DW can
>>certainly trigger it again.
>>
>>That ISellJeeps claims it is strictly a tire related problem that causes
>>Death Wobble shows just how little he truly knows about this subject.
>>
>>DiezMon wrote:
>>
>>>Ok, let me clarify MY post.
>>>
>>>I had the front end checked out and everything was up to snuff. Then,
>
> we
>
>>>moved on to checking tires.. and found that one front tire was bad(the
>
> one
>
>>>doing the wobbling), and one rear. Hence, my tire replacement.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>>>news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>>>>them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>>>>imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>>>>without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>>>>loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>>>>world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>>>>cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>>>>may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>>>>of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>>>>getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>>>>years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>>>>replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>>>>many understand.
>>>>
>>>>Jerry
>>>>
>>>>extremetj wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>Larry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easyne ws.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It was my tires. Check those first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>
>>>message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>>>>>>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>>>>>>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Jerry Bransford
>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
07-25-2005, 03:44 PM
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Death Wobble (again)
I agree with you IsellJeeps I had an '03 when it was 6 months old and had
the factory goodyear MTR's which and 4000 miles I ended up with DW and found
I HAD A BAD TIRE!!!!!! when I got ride of the junk MTR's and switched to
a better tire I have never had the problem again.... now there are 30,000
miles on the new tires.
"IsellJeeps" <jsprauer2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:HCaFe.435$IH2.161@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net. ..
> Jerry always thinks hes the king of it all... I only post to the things I
> am
> familiar with and in 15 yrs in the Wrangler business I have never had a
> Jeep
> come back for front end problems that I put tires on due to the death
> wobble... end of thread
>
>
>
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>> Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>> them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>> imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>> without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>> loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>> world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>> cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>> may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>> of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>> getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>> years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>> replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>> many understand.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> extremetj wrote:
>> > I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
> the
>> > time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>> >
>> > Larry
>> >
>> >
>> > "DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>> > news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews.co m...
>> >
>> >>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>> >>
>> >>It was my tires. Check those first.
>> >>
>> >>Tim
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
> message
>> >>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> >>
>> >>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>> >>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>> >>>
>> >>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>> >>>
>> >>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>> >>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>
the factory goodyear MTR's which and 4000 miles I ended up with DW and found
I HAD A BAD TIRE!!!!!! when I got ride of the junk MTR's and switched to
a better tire I have never had the problem again.... now there are 30,000
miles on the new tires.
"IsellJeeps" <jsprauer2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:HCaFe.435$IH2.161@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net. ..
> Jerry always thinks hes the king of it all... I only post to the things I
> am
> familiar with and in 15 yrs in the Wrangler business I have never had a
> Jeep
> come back for front end problems that I put tires on due to the death
> wobble... end of thread
>
>
>
>
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:w1aFe.19640$Eo.18595@fed1read04...
>> Tires are usually the TRIGGER for Death Wobble, of course, but replacing
>> them is not the entire answer or solution by any stretch of the
>> imagination. If everything on the front-end is tight and up to snuff
>> without loose components like the trackbar, bad control arm bushings,
>> loose ball joints, etc.,, the worst balanced or defective tires in the
>> world will not cause full-blown Death Wobble. Replacing tires that
>> cost anywhere from $500 to $900 or more to fix Death Wobble when they
>> may only be PART of the problem is asinine. I'm glad I'm not a customer
>> of ISellJeeps who just wants to throw money at the problem instead of
>> getting to the true root cause of the problem. I have way too many
>> years of experience with this problem to go along with anyone who thinks
>> replacing tires is the entire fix to a much more complex problem than
>> many understand.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> extremetj wrote:
>> > I agree with ISell Jeeps .......... CHECK YOUR TIRES nearly 100% of
> the
>> > time that IS the Problem. best of luck.
>> >
>> > Larry
>> >
>> >
>> > "DiezMon" <noone@notarealaddress.com> wrote in message
>> > news:7h9Fe.567993$pI6.266360@fe06.news.easynews.co m...
>> >
>> >>I'm telling ya.. I had the SAME problem.
>> >>
>> >>It was my tires. Check those first.
>> >>
>> >>Tim
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"Scott in Baltimore" <sDcOoNtTtS_PuAnMiMtE_69@yahoo.com> wrote in
> message
>> >>news:Y7KdnQtMBNaQwHnfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> >>
>> >>>It's time for some front end work. I'm tired of hitting bumps
>> >>>and having to slow way down for the front end to stop bouncing.
>> >>>
>> >>>Should I start with the steering dampener or sway bar links?
>> >>>
>> >>>'97 SE with a whopping 69100 miles on it.
>> >>>(Yes, it's been off road and has trail rash underneath!)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
>