For once Bill is right about ABS. A wheel that is rolling, and whose
contact patch is therefore stationary with respect to the road surface,
grips the road better than one which is sliding. The reason why is covered
in any elementary physics course.

He may be wrong about why people buy ABS though. I suspect that most of
them don't have a clue, and like paying more for options with fancy-sounding
names.

Earle

"Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5lMRf.39222$915.30574@southeast.rr.com...
> I don't get it.
>
> Spdloader
>
> "L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:4417903B.2613F0E4@***.net...
> > You said "Rolling wheels offer less resistance than one skidding
> > sideways." The people that buy Antilock Brake Systems don't think so.
> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Spdloader wrote:
> >>
> >> ---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
> >>
> >> ---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
> >> wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
> >>
> >> ---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY
> >> sliding.
> >> I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you
> >> have
> >> lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
> >> slower than walking to start with.
> >>
> >> ---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
> >> because they have farther to travel.
> >>
> >> ---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
> >> another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your
traction".
> >> That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has
> >> nothing
> >> to do with the original post.
> >>
> >> ---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the
> >> wheel
> >> speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
> >> gearing.
> >>
> >> ---Obvious insult ignored.
>
>

 

Heh, I still have a motorcycle endorsement on my Colorado license, which is
good to 2012. The last time I was on a motorcycle was 1978. Maybe when I
hit sixty, I'll get a Harley...

Earle

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4417639C.C2A9FAC1@***.net...
> Hi Mike,
> Agreed, if we have to have a special license to operate a
> motorcycle, than there should be one for a top heavy four by four.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > Jeep should offer a course in how to handle your new 4x4. Land Rover
> > here in Canada does. I have been out with their factory team in my CJ7
> > showing them around some new challenges in the area we do day trips in.
> > I even had their newspaper reporter out with us on one clean up trip I
> > was the liaison on. He blasted the LR drivers for their poor showing.
> > He said he was on a great clean up trip..... with a bunch of Jeepers!
> > LOL!
> >
> > 4x4's handle totally different than any other vehicle, especially in
> > 'part time' with the front and rear differentials locked together. The
> > brakes go insane. It takes learning to get comfortable with that 5-10
> > mph you need to be moving to hold control. You cannot safely stop on a
> > icy decent, you just have to be able to control it to the bottom. Most
> > times it is 'to stop, hit tree or snowbank', otherwise aim good.... ;-)
> >
> > Rear wheel drives handle a certain way and front wheel drives handle
> > totally different.
> >
> > Empty parking lots come first snow is the way to go to learn or a nice
> > local sand pit area like we used to have.
> >
> > Mike

 

Heh, I still have a motorcycle endorsement on my Colorado license, which is
good to 2012. The last time I was on a motorcycle was 1978. Maybe when I
hit sixty, I'll get a Harley...

Earle

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4417639C.C2A9FAC1@***.net...
> Hi Mike,
> Agreed, if we have to have a special license to operate a
> motorcycle, than there should be one for a top heavy four by four.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > Jeep should offer a course in how to handle your new 4x4. Land Rover
> > here in Canada does. I have been out with their factory team in my CJ7
> > showing them around some new challenges in the area we do day trips in.
> > I even had their newspaper reporter out with us on one clean up trip I
> > was the liaison on. He blasted the LR drivers for their poor showing.
> > He said he was on a great clean up trip..... with a bunch of Jeepers!
> > LOL!
> >
> > 4x4's handle totally different than any other vehicle, especially in
> > 'part time' with the front and rear differentials locked together. The
> > brakes go insane. It takes learning to get comfortable with that 5-10
> > mph you need to be moving to hold control. You cannot safely stop on a
> > icy decent, you just have to be able to control it to the bottom. Most
> > times it is 'to stop, hit tree or snowbank', otherwise aim good.... ;-)
> >
> > Rear wheel drives handle a certain way and front wheel drives handle
> > totally different.
> >
> > Empty parking lots come first snow is the way to go to learn or a nice
> > local sand pit area like we used to have.
> >
> > Mike

 

Heh, I still have a motorcycle endorsement on my Colorado license, which is
good to 2012. The last time I was on a motorcycle was 1978. Maybe when I
hit sixty, I'll get a Harley...

Earle

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4417639C.C2A9FAC1@***.net...
> Hi Mike,
> Agreed, if we have to have a special license to operate a
> motorcycle, than there should be one for a top heavy four by four.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > Jeep should offer a course in how to handle your new 4x4. Land Rover
> > here in Canada does. I have been out with their factory team in my CJ7
> > showing them around some new challenges in the area we do day trips in.
> > I even had their newspaper reporter out with us on one clean up trip I
> > was the liaison on. He blasted the LR drivers for their poor showing.
> > He said he was on a great clean up trip..... with a bunch of Jeepers!
> > LOL!
> >
> > 4x4's handle totally different than any other vehicle, especially in
> > 'part time' with the front and rear differentials locked together. The
> > brakes go insane. It takes learning to get comfortable with that 5-10
> > mph you need to be moving to hold control. You cannot safely stop on a
> > icy decent, you just have to be able to control it to the bottom. Most
> > times it is 'to stop, hit tree or snowbank', otherwise aim good.... ;-)
> >
> > Rear wheel drives handle a certain way and front wheel drives handle
> > totally different.
> >
> > Empty parking lots come first snow is the way to go to learn or a nice
> > local sand pit area like we used to have.
> >
> > Mike

 

Heh, I still have a motorcycle endorsement on my Colorado license, which is
good to 2012. The last time I was on a motorcycle was 1978. Maybe when I
hit sixty, I'll get a Harley...

Earle

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4417639C.C2A9FAC1@***.net...
> Hi Mike,
> Agreed, if we have to have a special license to operate a
> motorcycle, than there should be one for a top heavy four by four.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > Jeep should offer a course in how to handle your new 4x4. Land Rover
> > here in Canada does. I have been out with their factory team in my CJ7
> > showing them around some new challenges in the area we do day trips in.
> > I even had their newspaper reporter out with us on one clean up trip I
> > was the liaison on. He blasted the LR drivers for their poor showing.
> > He said he was on a great clean up trip..... with a bunch of Jeepers!
> > LOL!
> >
> > 4x4's handle totally different than any other vehicle, especially in
> > 'part time' with the front and rear differentials locked together. The
> > brakes go insane. It takes learning to get comfortable with that 5-10
> > mph you need to be moving to hold control. You cannot safely stop on a
> > icy decent, you just have to be able to control it to the bottom. Most
> > times it is 'to stop, hit tree or snowbank', otherwise aim good.... ;-)
> >
> > Rear wheel drives handle a certain way and front wheel drives handle
> > totally different.
> >
> > Empty parking lots come first snow is the way to go to learn or a nice
> > local sand pit area like we used to have.
> >
> > Mike

 

Hi Earle,
Hey we can dream!
I failed my motorcycle written back in '80, the tester offered to
let me correct them, but I said let it go. Upon changing my address back
to Kalifornia, I had to take the written again, and with a class one
that meant taking them all again, Commercial, chauffeur, Hazmat, Tanks,
Class 3 and 4, I aced them all except the 4. That's OK I've almost been
a couple of times, one was surreal jumping off my sliding bike, and over
a Chrysler wagon, that I was just trying to miss the glass in, and still
must have been doing over fifty MPH, and landed on my feet was able to
slow down without falling, like some kind of miracle. Nope, while I'm
thinking about it, NEVER AGAIN! http://www.----------.com/sportster.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Heh, I still have a motorcycle endorsement on my Colorado license, which is
> good to 2012. The last time I was on a motorcycle was 1978. Maybe when I
> hit sixty, I'll get a Harley...
>
> Earle

 

Hi Earle,
Hey we can dream!
I failed my motorcycle written back in '80, the tester offered to
let me correct them, but I said let it go. Upon changing my address back
to Kalifornia, I had to take the written again, and with a class one
that meant taking them all again, Commercial, chauffeur, Hazmat, Tanks,
Class 3 and 4, I aced them all except the 4. That's OK I've almost been
a couple of times, one was surreal jumping off my sliding bike, and over
a Chrysler wagon, that I was just trying to miss the glass in, and still
must have been doing over fifty MPH, and landed on my feet was able to
slow down without falling, like some kind of miracle. Nope, while I'm
thinking about it, NEVER AGAIN! http://www.----------.com/sportster.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Heh, I still have a motorcycle endorsement on my Colorado license, which is
> good to 2012. The last time I was on a motorcycle was 1978. Maybe when I
> hit sixty, I'll get a Harley...
>
> Earle

 

Hi Earle,
Hey we can dream!
I failed my motorcycle written back in '80, the tester offered to
let me correct them, but I said let it go. Upon changing my address back
to Kalifornia, I had to take the written again, and with a class one
that meant taking them all again, Commercial, chauffeur, Hazmat, Tanks,
Class 3 and 4, I aced them all except the 4. That's OK I've almost been
a couple of times, one was surreal jumping off my sliding bike, and over
a Chrysler wagon, that I was just trying to miss the glass in, and still
must have been doing over fifty MPH, and landed on my feet was able to
slow down without falling, like some kind of miracle. Nope, while I'm
thinking about it, NEVER AGAIN! http://www.----------.com/sportster.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Heh, I still have a motorcycle endorsement on my Colorado license, which is
> good to 2012. The last time I was on a motorcycle was 1978. Maybe when I
> hit sixty, I'll get a Harley...
>
> Earle

 

Hi Earle,
Hey we can dream!
I failed my motorcycle written back in '80, the tester offered to
let me correct them, but I said let it go. Upon changing my address back
to Kalifornia, I had to take the written again, and with a class one
that meant taking them all again, Commercial, chauffeur, Hazmat, Tanks,
Class 3 and 4, I aced them all except the 4. That's OK I've almost been
a couple of times, one was surreal jumping off my sliding bike, and over
a Chrysler wagon, that I was just trying to miss the glass in, and still
must have been doing over fifty MPH, and landed on my feet was able to
slow down without falling, like some kind of miracle. Nope, while I'm
thinking about it, NEVER AGAIN! http://www.----------.com/sportster.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Heh, I still have a motorcycle endorsement on my Colorado license, which is
> good to 2012. The last time I was on a motorcycle was 1978. Maybe when I
> hit sixty, I'll get a Harley...
>
> Earle

 

Every GM passenger car marque including Cadillac has a front wheel drive
car.

http://tinyurl.com/n893d

"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:44179E5F.34E39D56@***.net...
> Fortunately, Cadillac and other GMs have gone to American
> engineered for Americans rear wheel drive:
> http://cadillac.jbcarpages.com/STS/2005/
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
>>
>> Bill, wake up and smell the coffee. Most passenger cars on the road
>> today,
>> American marks included, are front wheel drive. And I suppose you forget
>> Saab's offerings, Cadillac Eldorado and seventies GMC motor homes, to
>> name a
>> few historical non-rice fueled front drive vehicles.
>>
>> I do remember the first time I topped an icy hill in a front drive
>> vehicle,
>> planning to use engine braking down the other side. I found out fast, it
>> doesn't work as well. I forget the year, but it was an air-cooled Honda
>> 600.
>>
>> Earle
>>
>> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>> news:44177A59.8E20A5C3@***.net...
>> > There's one exception, the front wheel drive rice burner, the
>> > reason antilock brake system wer invented for their paniced drivers.
>> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >
>> > 4X4PLAY wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Man, I have to really agree with Mike...I know what he says is a
>> fact...I
>> > > live in a Valley in Nova Scotia where we get alot of snow and ice
>> conditions
>> > > to contend with and I know for sure when I'm in part time and hit the
>> brakes
>> > > on ice my open diff'd TJ will slide side ways every time...unlike my
>> Grand
>> > > Cherokee in Full time will follow a straight line everytime....
>> > >
>> > > The other thing is, it has to be the tires...after reading this and
>> running
>> > > it over and over in my mind and being out on the North Mountain snow
>> > > wheeling several times since I have a hard time grasping the loss of
>> > > traction and not using gearing to come down the hills as I do all the
>> > > time...it really makes me think that it was all a tire problem...I
>> > > run a
>> > > good tire!
>> > >
>> > > Spdloader are you in an area that receives snow?? what type of Jeep
>> > > do
>> you
>> > > drive??
>> > >
>> > > Jeff