Re: 97 TJ 2.5L performance parts
 

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:45e4488c$0$6656$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
> hammertc2000@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Feb 25, 5:57 pm, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >> hammertc2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> On Feb 25, 2:55 pm, "Carl S" <carlsai...@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> You have 4.10 gearing. 4.56 will return someperformanceand gas
mileage.
> >>>> Get the 4.56 gears, cat-back and 4.0 throttle body, and be happy.
> >>>> FWIW, my 89 YJ 2.5L pushed my 33's around town and on the highway
with no
> >>>> problems, but it was a five speed. The 2.5L is a great engine.
> >>>> HTH
> >>>> Carl
> >>>> <hammertc2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:1172350151.251419.221200@m58g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
> >>>>> On Feb 24, 2:31 pm, "Earle Horton" <graci...@usa.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> <hammertc2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:1172344565.073873.112240@8g2000cwh.googlegrou ps.com...
> >>>>>> ...> Yes, I guess your right, getting rid of the auto trans and the
32's
> >>>>>>> would improveperformance:)
> >>>>>>> Unfortunately, getting rid of the auto trans is not an option as I
> >>>>>>> only have one leg to drive with. As for the tires...well...I'd
like
> >>>>>>> to keep them. So anyperformanceminor mods available while
> >>>>>>> still keeping the auto and 32's?
> >>>>>> Cat-back exhaust and 4.0 liter throttle body won't set you back
much,
> >>>>>> especially since exhaust doesn't last forever. I found on mine
that the
> >>>>>> mileage improved more than the power from engine mods. What you
really
> >>>>>> need
> >>>>>> to do is regear the axles.
> >>>>>> Earle
> >>>>> Good point about the exhaust. Better gas mileage wouldn't hurt
> >>>>> either. Worth the try at least.
> >>>>> Regearing the axles does make the most sense. I just need to figure
> >>>>> out what I have and how to change them. I'm not looking for much
> >>>>> performancegain.
> >>>>> Thank you for your advise. I much appreciated it.
> >>>>> TJ- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> I requested a build sheet from DaimlerChrysler. This should help.
> >>> In the meantime, I looked today at the rear differential cover. It
> >>> definately has Dana on it. Also, it is a small metal tag with stamped
> >>> numbers:
> >>> 52111763
> >>> 3 73 5957 <--I'm thinking this means 3.73 but am not sure. I
> >>> will take the cover off and see what's inside for sure. Don't know if
> >>> the previous owner(s) did any mods besides the tires and lift kit.
> >>> First, I guess, I'll need to go get some pumpkin juice for it.
> >>> I took the TJ out on the highway today. Got it upto 60MPH (on the
> >>> speedo), tacking approx 2700, I completed a mile in about 53 seconds.
> >>> I did this for (5) miles straight...each mile 53 seconds on a
> >>> stopwatch. Not real scientific.
> >>> I guess I was actually doing 68MPH. Good thing the speed limit on
> >>> that stretch is 70.
> >>> TJ
> >> You can just jack up one wheel and turn it twice while counting the
> >> number of turns the driveshaft turns. Marking both the driveshaft and
> >> wheel with chalk helps count.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > Ok. I jacked one wheel and mark both the driveshaft and the tire. I
> > rotated the tire (2) revs and the drive shaft rotated almost, not
> > quite, (4) times. I'd say 3.75. I'm guessing my gear ratio is
> > 3.73. I think this is what I saw stamped on the tag on the real
> > differential.
> > I'm still waiting for a response from DC on the build sheet.
> > Looks like a 4.5 R&P is in my future....
> >
>
> That is an unusual ratio for a 4 banger as far as I know, but you are
> right about the tag. I thought they were 4.11 or more, but that is only
> from what I have seen posted.
>
> I think I would be checking the front axle out to make sure it is the
> same ratio as the rear with the thought someone might have swapped in a
> new rear end for some reason.
>
> Your gas mileage and perceived power are low also due to the speedo
> being off by 10%. When you finally decide on what ratio you want, it is
> easy to swap the speedo gear for the correct one.
>
> As far as power goes, intake and exhaust usually help. I know on the
> older Jeeps, a better coil also helped. I don't know if a higher
> voltage coil like an Accel will help the 4 or not.
>
> I also have seen 4's with electric fans instead of the belt driven ones.
> Apparently the increased alternator load is slightly lower than the
> fan belt load so you come out ahead power wise. It will wear out the
> alternator slightly earlier but...
>
> Where we used wheel is over an hour's highway run away and I have driven
> to the pit and wheeled all day with groups of other Jeeps only to find
> out a couple have been 4 bangers. I had no idea until hoods got opened
> that they had the small engine in them. Their performance on the trail
> or in the mud sure didn't suffer.
>
> The automatics have issues with not staying in the gear they are 'told'
> to stay in. This is a big disadvantage when climbing sand pit or ravine
> walls. They do great in 2nd gear, but then decide to drop to 1st, which
> spins the tires and digs holes so that's as far as they go.
>
> There are kits to keep them in the gear you want I believe. I am not
> sure if this works on all of them or not. Maybe Bill still has the link
> to that, my link is dead.
>
> Mike
>
The 3.73 gears are to make up for the torque converter slippage, I think.
The electric fan in mine "never" comes on while the vehicle is moving. Even
in city driving or off road, 5 mph is enough to cool the engine. That is
why you get an electric fan. Of course, it is all wasted if you don't set
the thermostatic fan control properly. You can't blame the manufacturer for
that. They do include proper instructions.

Earle

Re: 97 TJ 2.5L performance parts
 

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:45e4488c$0$6656$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
> hammertc2000@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Feb 25, 5:57 pm, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >> hammertc2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> On Feb 25, 2:55 pm, "Carl S" <carlsai...@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> You have 4.10 gearing. 4.56 will return someperformanceand gas
mileage.
> >>>> Get the 4.56 gears, cat-back and 4.0 throttle body, and be happy.
> >>>> FWIW, my 89 YJ 2.5L pushed my 33's around town and on the highway
with no
> >>>> problems, but it was a five speed. The 2.5L is a great engine.
> >>>> HTH
> >>>> Carl
> >>>> <hammertc2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:1172350151.251419.221200@m58g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
> >>>>> On Feb 24, 2:31 pm, "Earle Horton" <graci...@usa.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> <hammertc2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:1172344565.073873.112240@8g2000cwh.googlegrou ps.com...
> >>>>>> ...> Yes, I guess your right, getting rid of the auto trans and the
32's
> >>>>>>> would improveperformance:)
> >>>>>>> Unfortunately, getting rid of the auto trans is not an option as I
> >>>>>>> only have one leg to drive with. As for the tires...well...I'd
like
> >>>>>>> to keep them. So anyperformanceminor mods available while
> >>>>>>> still keeping the auto and 32's?
> >>>>>> Cat-back exhaust and 4.0 liter throttle body won't set you back
much,
> >>>>>> especially since exhaust doesn't last forever. I found on mine
that the
> >>>>>> mileage improved more than the power from engine mods. What you
really
> >>>>>> need
> >>>>>> to do is regear the axles.
> >>>>>> Earle
> >>>>> Good point about the exhaust. Better gas mileage wouldn't hurt
> >>>>> either. Worth the try at least.
> >>>>> Regearing the axles does make the most sense. I just need to figure
> >>>>> out what I have and how to change them. I'm not looking for much
> >>>>> performancegain.
> >>>>> Thank you for your advise. I much appreciated it.
> >>>>> TJ- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> I requested a build sheet from DaimlerChrysler. This should help.
> >>> In the meantime, I looked today at the rear differential cover. It
> >>> definately has Dana on it. Also, it is a small metal tag with stamped
> >>> numbers:
> >>> 52111763
> >>> 3 73 5957 <--I'm thinking this means 3.73 but am not sure. I
> >>> will take the cover off and see what's inside for sure. Don't know if
> >>> the previous owner(s) did any mods besides the tires and lift kit.
> >>> First, I guess, I'll need to go get some pumpkin juice for it.
> >>> I took the TJ out on the highway today. Got it upto 60MPH (on the
> >>> speedo), tacking approx 2700, I completed a mile in about 53 seconds.
> >>> I did this for (5) miles straight...each mile 53 seconds on a
> >>> stopwatch. Not real scientific.
> >>> I guess I was actually doing 68MPH. Good thing the speed limit on
> >>> that stretch is 70.
> >>> TJ
> >> You can just jack up one wheel and turn it twice while counting the
> >> number of turns the driveshaft turns. Marking both the driveshaft and
> >> wheel with chalk helps count.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > Ok. I jacked one wheel and mark both the driveshaft and the tire. I
> > rotated the tire (2) revs and the drive shaft rotated almost, not
> > quite, (4) times. I'd say 3.75. I'm guessing my gear ratio is
> > 3.73. I think this is what I saw stamped on the tag on the real
> > differential.
> > I'm still waiting for a response from DC on the build sheet.
> > Looks like a 4.5 R&P is in my future....
> >
>
> That is an unusual ratio for a 4 banger as far as I know, but you are
> right about the tag. I thought they were 4.11 or more, but that is only
> from what I have seen posted.
>
> I think I would be checking the front axle out to make sure it is the
> same ratio as the rear with the thought someone might have swapped in a
> new rear end for some reason.
>
> Your gas mileage and perceived power are low also due to the speedo
> being off by 10%. When you finally decide on what ratio you want, it is
> easy to swap the speedo gear for the correct one.
>
> As far as power goes, intake and exhaust usually help. I know on the
> older Jeeps, a better coil also helped. I don't know if a higher
> voltage coil like an Accel will help the 4 or not.
>
> I also have seen 4's with electric fans instead of the belt driven ones.
> Apparently the increased alternator load is slightly lower than the
> fan belt load so you come out ahead power wise. It will wear out the
> alternator slightly earlier but...
>
> Where we used wheel is over an hour's highway run away and I have driven
> to the pit and wheeled all day with groups of other Jeeps only to find
> out a couple have been 4 bangers. I had no idea until hoods got opened
> that they had the small engine in them. Their performance on the trail
> or in the mud sure didn't suffer.
>
> The automatics have issues with not staying in the gear they are 'told'
> to stay in. This is a big disadvantage when climbing sand pit or ravine
> walls. They do great in 2nd gear, but then decide to drop to 1st, which
> spins the tires and digs holes so that's as far as they go.
>
> There are kits to keep them in the gear you want I believe. I am not
> sure if this works on all of them or not. Maybe Bill still has the link
> to that, my link is dead.
>
> Mike
>
The 3.73 gears are to make up for the torque converter slippage, I think.
The electric fan in mine "never" comes on while the vehicle is moving. Even
in city driving or off road, 5 mph is enough to cool the engine. That is
why you get an electric fan. Of course, it is all wasted if you don't set
the thermostatic fan control properly. You can't blame the manufacturer for
that. They do include proper instructions.

Earle

Re: 97 TJ 2.5L performance parts
 

> The 3.73 gears are to make up for the torque converter slippage, I think.
> The electric fan in mine "never" comes on while the vehicle is moving. Even
> in city driving or off road, 5 mph is enough to cool the engine. That is
> why you get an electric fan. Of course, it is all wasted if you don't set
> the thermostatic fan control properly. You can't blame the manufacturer for
> that. They do include proper instructions.
>
> Earle


You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.

Re: 97 TJ 2.5L performance parts
 

> The 3.73 gears are to make up for the torque converter slippage, I think.
> The electric fan in mine "never" comes on while the vehicle is moving. Even
> in city driving or off road, 5 mph is enough to cool the engine. That is
> why you get an electric fan. Of course, it is all wasted if you don't set
> the thermostatic fan control properly. You can't blame the manufacturer for
> that. They do include proper instructions.
>
> Earle


You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.

Re: 97 TJ 2.5L performance parts
 

> The 3.73 gears are to make up for the torque converter slippage, I think.
> The electric fan in mine "never" comes on while the vehicle is moving. Even
> in city driving or off road, 5 mph is enough to cool the engine. That is
> why you get an electric fan. Of course, it is all wasted if you don't set
> the thermostatic fan control properly. You can't blame the manufacturer for
> that. They do include proper instructions.
>
> Earle


You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.

Re: 97 TJ 2.5L performance parts
 

> You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.

??? This is backwards from pretty much every other year then.

Scott in Baltimore wrote:
>> The 3.73 gears are to make up for the torque converter slippage, I think.
>> The electric fan in mine "never" comes on while the vehicle is
>> moving. Even
>> in city driving or off road, 5 mph is enough to cool the engine. That is
>> why you get an electric fan. Of course, it is all wasted if you don't
>> set
>> the thermostatic fan control properly. You can't blame the
>> manufacturer for
>> that. They do include proper instructions.
>>
>> Earle
>
>
> You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.

Re: 97 TJ 2.5L performance parts
 

> You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.

??? This is backwards from pretty much every other year then.

Scott in Baltimore wrote:
>> The 3.73 gears are to make up for the torque converter slippage, I think.
>> The electric fan in mine "never" comes on while the vehicle is
>> moving. Even
>> in city driving or off road, 5 mph is enough to cool the engine. That is
>> why you get an electric fan. Of course, it is all wasted if you don't
>> set
>> the thermostatic fan control properly. You can't blame the
>> manufacturer for
>> that. They do include proper instructions.
>>
>> Earle
>
>
> You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.

Re: 97 TJ 2.5L performance parts
 

> You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.

??? This is backwards from pretty much every other year then.

Scott in Baltimore wrote:
>> The 3.73 gears are to make up for the torque converter slippage, I think.
>> The electric fan in mine "never" comes on while the vehicle is
>> moving. Even
>> in city driving or off road, 5 mph is enough to cool the engine. That is
>> why you get an electric fan. Of course, it is all wasted if you don't
>> set
>> the thermostatic fan control properly. You can't blame the
>> manufacturer for
>> that. They do include proper instructions.
>>
>> Earle
>
>
> You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.

Re: 97 TJ 2.5L performance parts
 

On Feb 27, 6:33 pm, The Merg <greg.merg...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
> > You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.
>
> ??? This is backwards from pretty much every other year then.
>
> Scott in Baltimore wrote:
> >> The 3.73 gears are to make up for the torque converter slippage, I think.
> >> The electric fan in mine "never" comes on while the vehicle is
> >> moving. Even
> >> in city driving or off road, 5 mph is enough to cool the engine. That is
> >> why you get an electric fan. Of course, it is all wasted if you don't
> >> set
> >> the thermostatic fan control properly. You can't blame the
> >> manufacturer for
> >> that. They do include proper instructions.
>
> >> Earle
>
> > You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.

I requested a build sheet from DC which may answer the "as build"
question.
I wonder if back in '97 era someone ordered a vehicle they had an
option to pick certain gearing via a 'package group' or something(?)

I just can't see someone spending $400 to $1000 to regear from 4.10 to
3.73. Maybe they had to change both axles for some reason.

Re: 97 TJ 2.5L performance parts
 

On Feb 27, 6:33 pm, The Merg <greg.merg...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
> > You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.
>
> ??? This is backwards from pretty much every other year then.
>
> Scott in Baltimore wrote:
> >> The 3.73 gears are to make up for the torque converter slippage, I think.
> >> The electric fan in mine "never" comes on while the vehicle is
> >> moving. Even
> >> in city driving or off road, 5 mph is enough to cool the engine. That is
> >> why you get an electric fan. Of course, it is all wasted if you don't
> >> set
> >> the thermostatic fan control properly. You can't blame the
> >> manufacturer for
> >> that. They do include proper instructions.
>
> >> Earle
>
> > You got 4.10 with an auto and 3.73 with a stick with a 4 banger in '97.

I requested a build sheet from DC which may answer the "as build"
question.
I wonder if back in '97 era someone ordered a vehicle they had an
option to pick certain gearing via a 'package group' or something(?)

I just can't see someone spending $400 to $1000 to regear from 4.10 to
3.73. Maybe they had to change both axles for some reason.