Willys/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
06-28-2004, 04:17 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
simple enough for you.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Ted Azito wrote:
>
> The specifications are different but not exclusionary: a given fuel
> may meet one, both, or neither specification. JP-5 has strict sulfur
> and vanadium limits. On road diesel has less strict, but similar
> sulfur limits, vanadium not specified. Lubricity is more strict for
> diesel fuels. Cetane rating is very important, this is the
> "dieselability" of the fuel as compared to pure cetane. If the fuel
> meets both specs they certainly can sell it-at different prices-to
> different customers.
>
> I think you have to buy the full ASTM standards but I'm sure they're
> summarized somewhere. If I find them, I'll pass them on to you.
>
> Bear in mind-relatively little #1 Diesel is sold to onroad customers!
> Almost all diesel sold is #2, or in cold weather a blend. So,"I never
> smelled anything like jet fuel at the Bosselman" is probably valid.
> You probably haven't.
fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
simple enough for you.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Ted Azito wrote:
>
> The specifications are different but not exclusionary: a given fuel
> may meet one, both, or neither specification. JP-5 has strict sulfur
> and vanadium limits. On road diesel has less strict, but similar
> sulfur limits, vanadium not specified. Lubricity is more strict for
> diesel fuels. Cetane rating is very important, this is the
> "dieselability" of the fuel as compared to pure cetane. If the fuel
> meets both specs they certainly can sell it-at different prices-to
> different customers.
>
> I think you have to buy the full ASTM standards but I'm sure they're
> summarized somewhere. If I find them, I'll pass them on to you.
>
> Bear in mind-relatively little #1 Diesel is sold to onroad customers!
> Almost all diesel sold is #2, or in cold weather a blend. So,"I never
> smelled anything like jet fuel at the Bosselman" is probably valid.
> You probably haven't.
06-28-2004, 04:25 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
Petroleum product chemical structures:
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...html#petroleum
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
> simple enough for you.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...html#petroleum
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
> simple enough for you.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
06-28-2004, 04:25 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
Petroleum product chemical structures:
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...html#petroleum
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
> simple enough for you.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...html#petroleum
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
> simple enough for you.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
06-28-2004, 04:25 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
Petroleum product chemical structures:
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...html#petroleum
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
> simple enough for you.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...html#petroleum
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
> simple enough for you.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
06-28-2004, 04:25 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
Petroleum product chemical structures:
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...html#petroleum
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
> simple enough for you.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...html#petroleum
"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
> simple enough for you.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
06-29-2004, 08:07 PM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
L.W.(ßill) ------ III <----------@***.net> wrote in message news:<40E07EC3.2A62C362@***.net>...
> > Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> > fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> > barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> > http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> > products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> > the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> > shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> > separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> > kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
If they don't show very different levels for Jet-A (JP-5) and Jet-B
(JP-4) then it's their chart that's wrong.
Every airport in the country big enough to sell jet fuel has a fuel
truck which is amost always diesel and is almost always operated on
Jet A for convenience. Call the local FBO, don't take my word for it.
All aircraft turbine engines will start and run on #1 or #2 diesel,
or for that matter car gas, avgas, K-1 Kero, Coleman fuel, or a bunch
of other things. The _legal_ fuel for certificated aircraft is what is
specified on the aircraft's Type Certificate Data Sheet, and is almost
always Jet-A and whatever other alternate and emergency fuels the
Flight Manual specifies, if any, and under the specified limits. Some
aircraft-like piston airplanes have for legally burning car gas-have a
Supplemental Type Certificate enabling sustained use of other fuels,
again under certain conditions. Ag operators run PT6 Pratt powered
aircraft on #2 Diesel routinely, legally, and safely.
Legality aside should you put diesel fuel in your Lear? Probably not,
since although the engines may burn it satisffactorily, the fuel lines
will freeze up at cruise altitude and you will flame out and possibly
tear up the fuel controllers. On the other hand I know a guy who runs
his Soloy Bell 47G on diesel fuel and since he lives in Mississippi
and never flies more than two or three thousand feet AGL-and his fuel
never gets colder than 40 (above) F.-it'll never cause a problem. (He
did trim his fuel controller on the diesel fuel. Important.)
Generally turbine operators, except ag operators and homebuilders
with surplus or converted APU engines, are not price conscious and
that's why jet fuel costs what FBOs charge. Wholesale it's price is
about the same as diesel.
I know this is hard information for many people to comprehend, but if
you will ask a petroleum engineer _who has worked with these fuels_,
or any shop dealing with ST6 or ag/experimental PT6 applications, they
will verify that it is so. I really have been there and done that.
> > Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> > fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> > barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> > http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> > products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> > the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> > shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> > separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> > kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
If they don't show very different levels for Jet-A (JP-5) and Jet-B
(JP-4) then it's their chart that's wrong.
Every airport in the country big enough to sell jet fuel has a fuel
truck which is amost always diesel and is almost always operated on
Jet A for convenience. Call the local FBO, don't take my word for it.
All aircraft turbine engines will start and run on #1 or #2 diesel,
or for that matter car gas, avgas, K-1 Kero, Coleman fuel, or a bunch
of other things. The _legal_ fuel for certificated aircraft is what is
specified on the aircraft's Type Certificate Data Sheet, and is almost
always Jet-A and whatever other alternate and emergency fuels the
Flight Manual specifies, if any, and under the specified limits. Some
aircraft-like piston airplanes have for legally burning car gas-have a
Supplemental Type Certificate enabling sustained use of other fuels,
again under certain conditions. Ag operators run PT6 Pratt powered
aircraft on #2 Diesel routinely, legally, and safely.
Legality aside should you put diesel fuel in your Lear? Probably not,
since although the engines may burn it satisffactorily, the fuel lines
will freeze up at cruise altitude and you will flame out and possibly
tear up the fuel controllers. On the other hand I know a guy who runs
his Soloy Bell 47G on diesel fuel and since he lives in Mississippi
and never flies more than two or three thousand feet AGL-and his fuel
never gets colder than 40 (above) F.-it'll never cause a problem. (He
did trim his fuel controller on the diesel fuel. Important.)
Generally turbine operators, except ag operators and homebuilders
with surplus or converted APU engines, are not price conscious and
that's why jet fuel costs what FBOs charge. Wholesale it's price is
about the same as diesel.
I know this is hard information for many people to comprehend, but if
you will ask a petroleum engineer _who has worked with these fuels_,
or any shop dealing with ST6 or ag/experimental PT6 applications, they
will verify that it is so. I really have been there and done that.
06-29-2004, 08:07 PM
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
L.W.(ßill) ------ III <----------@***.net> wrote in message news:<40E07EC3.2A62C362@***.net>...
> > Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> > fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> > barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> > http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> > products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> > the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> > shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> > separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> > kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
If they don't show very different levels for Jet-A (JP-5) and Jet-B
(JP-4) then it's their chart that's wrong.
Every airport in the country big enough to sell jet fuel has a fuel
truck which is amost always diesel and is almost always operated on
Jet A for convenience. Call the local FBO, don't take my word for it.
All aircraft turbine engines will start and run on #1 or #2 diesel,
or for that matter car gas, avgas, K-1 Kero, Coleman fuel, or a bunch
of other things. The _legal_ fuel for certificated aircraft is what is
specified on the aircraft's Type Certificate Data Sheet, and is almost
always Jet-A and whatever other alternate and emergency fuels the
Flight Manual specifies, if any, and under the specified limits. Some
aircraft-like piston airplanes have for legally burning car gas-have a
Supplemental Type Certificate enabling sustained use of other fuels,
again under certain conditions. Ag operators run PT6 Pratt powered
aircraft on #2 Diesel routinely, legally, and safely.
Legality aside should you put diesel fuel in your Lear? Probably not,
since although the engines may burn it satisffactorily, the fuel lines
will freeze up at cruise altitude and you will flame out and possibly
tear up the fuel controllers. On the other hand I know a guy who runs
his Soloy Bell 47G on diesel fuel and since he lives in Mississippi
and never flies more than two or three thousand feet AGL-and his fuel
never gets colder than 40 (above) F.-it'll never cause a problem. (He
did trim his fuel controller on the diesel fuel. Important.)
Generally turbine operators, except ag operators and homebuilders
with surplus or converted APU engines, are not price conscious and
that's why jet fuel costs what FBOs charge. Wholesale it's price is
about the same as diesel.
I know this is hard information for many people to comprehend, but if
you will ask a petroleum engineer _who has worked with these fuels_,
or any shop dealing with ST6 or ag/experimental PT6 applications, they
will verify that it is so. I really have been there and done that.
> > Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> > fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> > barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> > http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> > products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> > the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> > shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> > separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> > kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
If they don't show very different levels for Jet-A (JP-5) and Jet-B
(JP-4) then it's their chart that's wrong.
Every airport in the country big enough to sell jet fuel has a fuel
truck which is amost always diesel and is almost always operated on
Jet A for convenience. Call the local FBO, don't take my word for it.
All aircraft turbine engines will start and run on #1 or #2 diesel,
or for that matter car gas, avgas, K-1 Kero, Coleman fuel, or a bunch
of other things. The _legal_ fuel for certificated aircraft is what is
specified on the aircraft's Type Certificate Data Sheet, and is almost
always Jet-A and whatever other alternate and emergency fuels the
Flight Manual specifies, if any, and under the specified limits. Some
aircraft-like piston airplanes have for legally burning car gas-have a
Supplemental Type Certificate enabling sustained use of other fuels,
again under certain conditions. Ag operators run PT6 Pratt powered
aircraft on #2 Diesel routinely, legally, and safely.
Legality aside should you put diesel fuel in your Lear? Probably not,
since although the engines may burn it satisffactorily, the fuel lines
will freeze up at cruise altitude and you will flame out and possibly
tear up the fuel controllers. On the other hand I know a guy who runs
his Soloy Bell 47G on diesel fuel and since he lives in Mississippi
and never flies more than two or three thousand feet AGL-and his fuel
never gets colder than 40 (above) F.-it'll never cause a problem. (He
did trim his fuel controller on the diesel fuel. Important.)
Generally turbine operators, except ag operators and homebuilders
with surplus or converted APU engines, are not price conscious and
that's why jet fuel costs what FBOs charge. Wholesale it's price is
about the same as diesel.
I know this is hard information for many people to comprehend, but if
you will ask a petroleum engineer _who has worked with these fuels_,
or any shop dealing with ST6 or ag/experimental PT6 applications, they
will verify that it is so. I really have been there and done that.
06-29-2004, 08:07 PM
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
L.W.(ßill) ------ III <----------@***.net> wrote in message news:<40E07EC3.2A62C362@***.net>...
> > Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> > fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> > barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> > http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> > products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> > the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> > shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> > separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> > kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
If they don't show very different levels for Jet-A (JP-5) and Jet-B
(JP-4) then it's their chart that's wrong.
Every airport in the country big enough to sell jet fuel has a fuel
truck which is amost always diesel and is almost always operated on
Jet A for convenience. Call the local FBO, don't take my word for it.
All aircraft turbine engines will start and run on #1 or #2 diesel,
or for that matter car gas, avgas, K-1 Kero, Coleman fuel, or a bunch
of other things. The _legal_ fuel for certificated aircraft is what is
specified on the aircraft's Type Certificate Data Sheet, and is almost
always Jet-A and whatever other alternate and emergency fuels the
Flight Manual specifies, if any, and under the specified limits. Some
aircraft-like piston airplanes have for legally burning car gas-have a
Supplemental Type Certificate enabling sustained use of other fuels,
again under certain conditions. Ag operators run PT6 Pratt powered
aircraft on #2 Diesel routinely, legally, and safely.
Legality aside should you put diesel fuel in your Lear? Probably not,
since although the engines may burn it satisffactorily, the fuel lines
will freeze up at cruise altitude and you will flame out and possibly
tear up the fuel controllers. On the other hand I know a guy who runs
his Soloy Bell 47G on diesel fuel and since he lives in Mississippi
and never flies more than two or three thousand feet AGL-and his fuel
never gets colder than 40 (above) F.-it'll never cause a problem. (He
did trim his fuel controller on the diesel fuel. Important.)
Generally turbine operators, except ag operators and homebuilders
with surplus or converted APU engines, are not price conscious and
that's why jet fuel costs what FBOs charge. Wholesale it's price is
about the same as diesel.
I know this is hard information for many people to comprehend, but if
you will ask a petroleum engineer _who has worked with these fuels_,
or any shop dealing with ST6 or ag/experimental PT6 applications, they
will verify that it is so. I really have been there and done that.
> > Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> > fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> > barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> > http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> > products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> > the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> > shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> > separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> > kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
If they don't show very different levels for Jet-A (JP-5) and Jet-B
(JP-4) then it's their chart that's wrong.
Every airport in the country big enough to sell jet fuel has a fuel
truck which is amost always diesel and is almost always operated on
Jet A for convenience. Call the local FBO, don't take my word for it.
All aircraft turbine engines will start and run on #1 or #2 diesel,
or for that matter car gas, avgas, K-1 Kero, Coleman fuel, or a bunch
of other things. The _legal_ fuel for certificated aircraft is what is
specified on the aircraft's Type Certificate Data Sheet, and is almost
always Jet-A and whatever other alternate and emergency fuels the
Flight Manual specifies, if any, and under the specified limits. Some
aircraft-like piston airplanes have for legally burning car gas-have a
Supplemental Type Certificate enabling sustained use of other fuels,
again under certain conditions. Ag operators run PT6 Pratt powered
aircraft on #2 Diesel routinely, legally, and safely.
Legality aside should you put diesel fuel in your Lear? Probably not,
since although the engines may burn it satisffactorily, the fuel lines
will freeze up at cruise altitude and you will flame out and possibly
tear up the fuel controllers. On the other hand I know a guy who runs
his Soloy Bell 47G on diesel fuel and since he lives in Mississippi
and never flies more than two or three thousand feet AGL-and his fuel
never gets colder than 40 (above) F.-it'll never cause a problem. (He
did trim his fuel controller on the diesel fuel. Important.)
Generally turbine operators, except ag operators and homebuilders
with surplus or converted APU engines, are not price conscious and
that's why jet fuel costs what FBOs charge. Wholesale it's price is
about the same as diesel.
I know this is hard information for many people to comprehend, but if
you will ask a petroleum engineer _who has worked with these fuels_,
or any shop dealing with ST6 or ag/experimental PT6 applications, they
will verify that it is so. I really have been there and done that.
06-29-2004, 08:07 PM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
L.W.(ßill) ------ III <----------@***.net> wrote in message news:<40E07EC3.2A62C362@***.net>...
> > Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> > fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> > barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> > http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> > products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> > the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> > shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> > separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> > kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
If they don't show very different levels for Jet-A (JP-5) and Jet-B
(JP-4) then it's their chart that's wrong.
Every airport in the country big enough to sell jet fuel has a fuel
truck which is amost always diesel and is almost always operated on
Jet A for convenience. Call the local FBO, don't take my word for it.
All aircraft turbine engines will start and run on #1 or #2 diesel,
or for that matter car gas, avgas, K-1 Kero, Coleman fuel, or a bunch
of other things. The _legal_ fuel for certificated aircraft is what is
specified on the aircraft's Type Certificate Data Sheet, and is almost
always Jet-A and whatever other alternate and emergency fuels the
Flight Manual specifies, if any, and under the specified limits. Some
aircraft-like piston airplanes have for legally burning car gas-have a
Supplemental Type Certificate enabling sustained use of other fuels,
again under certain conditions. Ag operators run PT6 Pratt powered
aircraft on #2 Diesel routinely, legally, and safely.
Legality aside should you put diesel fuel in your Lear? Probably not,
since although the engines may burn it satisffactorily, the fuel lines
will freeze up at cruise altitude and you will flame out and possibly
tear up the fuel controllers. On the other hand I know a guy who runs
his Soloy Bell 47G on diesel fuel and since he lives in Mississippi
and never flies more than two or three thousand feet AGL-and his fuel
never gets colder than 40 (above) F.-it'll never cause a problem. (He
did trim his fuel controller on the diesel fuel. Important.)
Generally turbine operators, except ag operators and homebuilders
with surplus or converted APU engines, are not price conscious and
that's why jet fuel costs what FBOs charge. Wholesale it's price is
about the same as diesel.
I know this is hard information for many people to comprehend, but if
you will ask a petroleum engineer _who has worked with these fuels_,
or any shop dealing with ST6 or ag/experimental PT6 applications, they
will verify that it is so. I really have been there and done that.
> > Ted, this type of miss information that could get someone killed! Diesel
> > fuel is nowhere near jet fuel's atomic structure make up! Cracking a
> > barrel of crude looks exactly like the diagram at:
> > http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm Where the
> > products under pressure and heat are separated, the "heavy ends" are at
> > the bottom of over eight hundred pound of gravity force, a waste usually
> > shipped to Petroleum Reserve. The top is lighter and naturally gas,
> > separating according to their atomic weight structure, at the top of the
> > kerosene level you will see a drawing of an airplane. I hope this is
If they don't show very different levels for Jet-A (JP-5) and Jet-B
(JP-4) then it's their chart that's wrong.
Every airport in the country big enough to sell jet fuel has a fuel
truck which is amost always diesel and is almost always operated on
Jet A for convenience. Call the local FBO, don't take my word for it.
All aircraft turbine engines will start and run on #1 or #2 diesel,
or for that matter car gas, avgas, K-1 Kero, Coleman fuel, or a bunch
of other things. The _legal_ fuel for certificated aircraft is what is
specified on the aircraft's Type Certificate Data Sheet, and is almost
always Jet-A and whatever other alternate and emergency fuels the
Flight Manual specifies, if any, and under the specified limits. Some
aircraft-like piston airplanes have for legally burning car gas-have a
Supplemental Type Certificate enabling sustained use of other fuels,
again under certain conditions. Ag operators run PT6 Pratt powered
aircraft on #2 Diesel routinely, legally, and safely.
Legality aside should you put diesel fuel in your Lear? Probably not,
since although the engines may burn it satisffactorily, the fuel lines
will freeze up at cruise altitude and you will flame out and possibly
tear up the fuel controllers. On the other hand I know a guy who runs
his Soloy Bell 47G on diesel fuel and since he lives in Mississippi
and never flies more than two or three thousand feet AGL-and his fuel
never gets colder than 40 (above) F.-it'll never cause a problem. (He
did trim his fuel controller on the diesel fuel. Important.)
Generally turbine operators, except ag operators and homebuilders
with surplus or converted APU engines, are not price conscious and
that's why jet fuel costs what FBOs charge. Wholesale it's price is
about the same as diesel.
I know this is hard information for many people to comprehend, but if
you will ask a petroleum engineer _who has worked with these fuels_,
or any shop dealing with ST6 or ag/experimental PT6 applications, they
will verify that it is so. I really have been there and done that.
06-29-2004, 08:20 PM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
YOU ARE WRONG! Dam it! Use the internet and look for yourself!
You're going to kill someone!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Ted Azito wrote:
>
> If they don't show very different levels for Jet-A (JP-5) and Jet-B
> (JP-4) then it's their chart that's wrong.
>
> Every airport in the country big enough to sell jet fuel has a fuel
> truck which is amost always diesel and is almost always operated on
> Jet A for convenience. Call the local FBO, don't take my word for it.
>
> All aircraft turbine engines will start and run on #1 or #2 diesel,
> or for that matter car gas, avgas, K-1 Kero, Coleman fuel, or a bunch
> of other things. The _legal_ fuel for certificated aircraft is what is
> specified on the aircraft's Type Certificate Data Sheet, and is almost
> always Jet-A and whatever other alternate and emergency fuels the
> Flight Manual specifies, if any, and under the specified limits. Some
> aircraft-like piston airplanes have for legally burning car gas-have a
> Supplemental Type Certificate enabling sustained use of other fuels,
> again under certain conditions. Ag operators run PT6 Pratt powered
> aircraft on #2 Diesel routinely, legally, and safely.
>
> Legality aside should you put diesel fuel in your Lear? Probably not,
> since although the engines may burn it satisffactorily, the fuel lines
> will freeze up at cruise altitude and you will flame out and possibly
> tear up the fuel controllers. On the other hand I know a guy who runs
> his Soloy Bell 47G on diesel fuel and since he lives in Mississippi
> and never flies more than two or three thousand feet AGL-and his fuel
> never gets colder than 40 (above) F.-it'll never cause a problem. (He
> did trim his fuel controller on the diesel fuel. Important.)
>
> Generally turbine operators, except ag operators and homebuilders
> with surplus or converted APU engines, are not price conscious and
> that's why jet fuel costs what FBOs charge. Wholesale it's price is
> about the same as diesel.
>
> I know this is hard information for many people to comprehend, but if
> you will ask a petroleum engineer _who has worked with these fuels_,
> or any shop dealing with ST6 or ag/experimental PT6 applications, they
> will verify that it is so. I really have been there and done that.
You're going to kill someone!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Ted Azito wrote:
>
> If they don't show very different levels for Jet-A (JP-5) and Jet-B
> (JP-4) then it's their chart that's wrong.
>
> Every airport in the country big enough to sell jet fuel has a fuel
> truck which is amost always diesel and is almost always operated on
> Jet A for convenience. Call the local FBO, don't take my word for it.
>
> All aircraft turbine engines will start and run on #1 or #2 diesel,
> or for that matter car gas, avgas, K-1 Kero, Coleman fuel, or a bunch
> of other things. The _legal_ fuel for certificated aircraft is what is
> specified on the aircraft's Type Certificate Data Sheet, and is almost
> always Jet-A and whatever other alternate and emergency fuels the
> Flight Manual specifies, if any, and under the specified limits. Some
> aircraft-like piston airplanes have for legally burning car gas-have a
> Supplemental Type Certificate enabling sustained use of other fuels,
> again under certain conditions. Ag operators run PT6 Pratt powered
> aircraft on #2 Diesel routinely, legally, and safely.
>
> Legality aside should you put diesel fuel in your Lear? Probably not,
> since although the engines may burn it satisffactorily, the fuel lines
> will freeze up at cruise altitude and you will flame out and possibly
> tear up the fuel controllers. On the other hand I know a guy who runs
> his Soloy Bell 47G on diesel fuel and since he lives in Mississippi
> and never flies more than two or three thousand feet AGL-and his fuel
> never gets colder than 40 (above) F.-it'll never cause a problem. (He
> did trim his fuel controller on the diesel fuel. Important.)
>
> Generally turbine operators, except ag operators and homebuilders
> with surplus or converted APU engines, are not price conscious and
> that's why jet fuel costs what FBOs charge. Wholesale it's price is
> about the same as diesel.
>
> I know this is hard information for many people to comprehend, but if
> you will ask a petroleum engineer _who has worked with these fuels_,
> or any shop dealing with ST6 or ag/experimental PT6 applications, they
> will verify that it is so. I really have been there and done that.