Willys/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
#101
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
Nope, I was trying my best to separate diesel and Jet fuels as in
this easily read diagram:
http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm and
chemical structures:
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...html#petroleum
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Different story entirely - I was just commenting on the jet turbine
> part. That's basically a blow torch - spray fuel out the nozzle and
> light it. If it burns and sustains the flame, you're in business.
> The USAF manuals I still have around for several models all specify
> what will work in an emergency situation and what usable substitutes
> are available. We had to keep a copy of the list because almost no
> civilian field had JP4 and we were always winding up in some podunk
> strip when Gulf coast weather caught us. The goal was to find
> someplace with some sort of jet fuel but a lot of guys wound up at
> some private strip or a crop duster operation - the jet I flew at the
> time required about 4000' of runway and I put one down on a 1500' dirt
> strip, so we could use about anyplace when home plate socked in. Now
> that I think about it, I did come home on 115/145 avgas from that one.
> They poured walnut shells thru the engine to clean it, then pulled
> the turbine to inspect the blades for cracks (avgas burns hotter in
> that case) and deposits. I got to fly the test flights before the
> bird was released for unrestricted flight after that.
>
> I would NOT play those games with a diesel engine - I've spent too
> many hours tearing tractor engines and fuel systems apart to clean out
> what was supposed to be "good" diesel to begin with. Even minor
> contamination will kill a standard diesel - I'm sure Bill can tell all
> sorts of stories about trucks and a dirty fuel load.
>
> There is a world of difference between an otto cycle diesel and a
> turbine engine - they work on entirely different thermal principles -
> so what works for one will not necessarily (or even probably) work for
> the other. I'm mainly pulling Bill's chain since he seemed to group
> diesels and turbines as a fuel class.
> --
> Will Honea
this easily read diagram:
http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm and
chemical structures:
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...html#petroleum
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Will Honea wrote:
>
> Different story entirely - I was just commenting on the jet turbine
> part. That's basically a blow torch - spray fuel out the nozzle and
> light it. If it burns and sustains the flame, you're in business.
> The USAF manuals I still have around for several models all specify
> what will work in an emergency situation and what usable substitutes
> are available. We had to keep a copy of the list because almost no
> civilian field had JP4 and we were always winding up in some podunk
> strip when Gulf coast weather caught us. The goal was to find
> someplace with some sort of jet fuel but a lot of guys wound up at
> some private strip or a crop duster operation - the jet I flew at the
> time required about 4000' of runway and I put one down on a 1500' dirt
> strip, so we could use about anyplace when home plate socked in. Now
> that I think about it, I did come home on 115/145 avgas from that one.
> They poured walnut shells thru the engine to clean it, then pulled
> the turbine to inspect the blades for cracks (avgas burns hotter in
> that case) and deposits. I got to fly the test flights before the
> bird was released for unrestricted flight after that.
>
> I would NOT play those games with a diesel engine - I've spent too
> many hours tearing tractor engines and fuel systems apart to clean out
> what was supposed to be "good" diesel to begin with. Even minor
> contamination will kill a standard diesel - I'm sure Bill can tell all
> sorts of stories about trucks and a dirty fuel load.
>
> There is a world of difference between an otto cycle diesel and a
> turbine engine - they work on entirely different thermal principles -
> so what works for one will not necessarily (or even probably) work for
> the other. I'm mainly pulling Bill's chain since he seemed to group
> diesels and turbines as a fuel class.
> --
> Will Honea
#102
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 20:41:49 UTC larboard34@hotmail.com (Ted Azito)
wrote:
> It will start and run. Whether it will vapor lock or freeze and flame
> out on climbout or overtemp when you go to takeoff power,is another
> question. But if I was on the ramp in an overrun third world shithole
> and it was fly out or get taken prisoner, I'd do it. It would, with
> some sense, get me home.
Even more common - put a jet down in some west-of-nowhere location and
the AF will do the arithmetic: is the resulting inspection/repair
cheaper and quicker than trucking in a load of JP4? We never sweated
the vaporlock issue and freezeup (in RVN or South Texas) was pretty
unlikely below 15-20,000 feet even in winter unless it was cut with
water but that tailpipe temp was a bugger, especially on start before
the RPM got up enough to keep the flame off the pipe. I did bring a
few home with whatever the Army had available at the fire support
bases in Vietnam - pumped by hand from non-descript 50 gallon drums -
as about everyone in the chain of command agreed that spending the
night waiting for a fuel truck was not a very good idea.
But running used Mac D's used fry oil in a turbine is a whole lot
different than putting the raw stuff in a diesel engine. What works
for turbines is completely immaterial to a discussion of diesel
engines as we know them and comparing mil spec diesels to the civilian
counterparts is equally unproductive. The damage to a diesel engine
from trying to run it on straight gasoline (leaded or not) has been
demonstrated time and again - sometimes intentionally even.
--
Will Honea
wrote:
> It will start and run. Whether it will vapor lock or freeze and flame
> out on climbout or overtemp when you go to takeoff power,is another
> question. But if I was on the ramp in an overrun third world shithole
> and it was fly out or get taken prisoner, I'd do it. It would, with
> some sense, get me home.
Even more common - put a jet down in some west-of-nowhere location and
the AF will do the arithmetic: is the resulting inspection/repair
cheaper and quicker than trucking in a load of JP4? We never sweated
the vaporlock issue and freezeup (in RVN or South Texas) was pretty
unlikely below 15-20,000 feet even in winter unless it was cut with
water but that tailpipe temp was a bugger, especially on start before
the RPM got up enough to keep the flame off the pipe. I did bring a
few home with whatever the Army had available at the fire support
bases in Vietnam - pumped by hand from non-descript 50 gallon drums -
as about everyone in the chain of command agreed that spending the
night waiting for a fuel truck was not a very good idea.
But running used Mac D's used fry oil in a turbine is a whole lot
different than putting the raw stuff in a diesel engine. What works
for turbines is completely immaterial to a discussion of diesel
engines as we know them and comparing mil spec diesels to the civilian
counterparts is equally unproductive. The damage to a diesel engine
from trying to run it on straight gasoline (leaded or not) has been
demonstrated time and again - sometimes intentionally even.
--
Will Honea
#103
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 20:41:49 UTC larboard34@hotmail.com (Ted Azito)
wrote:
> It will start and run. Whether it will vapor lock or freeze and flame
> out on climbout or overtemp when you go to takeoff power,is another
> question. But if I was on the ramp in an overrun third world shithole
> and it was fly out or get taken prisoner, I'd do it. It would, with
> some sense, get me home.
Even more common - put a jet down in some west-of-nowhere location and
the AF will do the arithmetic: is the resulting inspection/repair
cheaper and quicker than trucking in a load of JP4? We never sweated
the vaporlock issue and freezeup (in RVN or South Texas) was pretty
unlikely below 15-20,000 feet even in winter unless it was cut with
water but that tailpipe temp was a bugger, especially on start before
the RPM got up enough to keep the flame off the pipe. I did bring a
few home with whatever the Army had available at the fire support
bases in Vietnam - pumped by hand from non-descript 50 gallon drums -
as about everyone in the chain of command agreed that spending the
night waiting for a fuel truck was not a very good idea.
But running used Mac D's used fry oil in a turbine is a whole lot
different than putting the raw stuff in a diesel engine. What works
for turbines is completely immaterial to a discussion of diesel
engines as we know them and comparing mil spec diesels to the civilian
counterparts is equally unproductive. The damage to a diesel engine
from trying to run it on straight gasoline (leaded or not) has been
demonstrated time and again - sometimes intentionally even.
--
Will Honea
wrote:
> It will start and run. Whether it will vapor lock or freeze and flame
> out on climbout or overtemp when you go to takeoff power,is another
> question. But if I was on the ramp in an overrun third world shithole
> and it was fly out or get taken prisoner, I'd do it. It would, with
> some sense, get me home.
Even more common - put a jet down in some west-of-nowhere location and
the AF will do the arithmetic: is the resulting inspection/repair
cheaper and quicker than trucking in a load of JP4? We never sweated
the vaporlock issue and freezeup (in RVN or South Texas) was pretty
unlikely below 15-20,000 feet even in winter unless it was cut with
water but that tailpipe temp was a bugger, especially on start before
the RPM got up enough to keep the flame off the pipe. I did bring a
few home with whatever the Army had available at the fire support
bases in Vietnam - pumped by hand from non-descript 50 gallon drums -
as about everyone in the chain of command agreed that spending the
night waiting for a fuel truck was not a very good idea.
But running used Mac D's used fry oil in a turbine is a whole lot
different than putting the raw stuff in a diesel engine. What works
for turbines is completely immaterial to a discussion of diesel
engines as we know them and comparing mil spec diesels to the civilian
counterparts is equally unproductive. The damage to a diesel engine
from trying to run it on straight gasoline (leaded or not) has been
demonstrated time and again - sometimes intentionally even.
--
Will Honea
#104
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 20:41:49 UTC larboard34@hotmail.com (Ted Azito)
wrote:
> It will start and run. Whether it will vapor lock or freeze and flame
> out on climbout or overtemp when you go to takeoff power,is another
> question. But if I was on the ramp in an overrun third world shithole
> and it was fly out or get taken prisoner, I'd do it. It would, with
> some sense, get me home.
Even more common - put a jet down in some west-of-nowhere location and
the AF will do the arithmetic: is the resulting inspection/repair
cheaper and quicker than trucking in a load of JP4? We never sweated
the vaporlock issue and freezeup (in RVN or South Texas) was pretty
unlikely below 15-20,000 feet even in winter unless it was cut with
water but that tailpipe temp was a bugger, especially on start before
the RPM got up enough to keep the flame off the pipe. I did bring a
few home with whatever the Army had available at the fire support
bases in Vietnam - pumped by hand from non-descript 50 gallon drums -
as about everyone in the chain of command agreed that spending the
night waiting for a fuel truck was not a very good idea.
But running used Mac D's used fry oil in a turbine is a whole lot
different than putting the raw stuff in a diesel engine. What works
for turbines is completely immaterial to a discussion of diesel
engines as we know them and comparing mil spec diesels to the civilian
counterparts is equally unproductive. The damage to a diesel engine
from trying to run it on straight gasoline (leaded or not) has been
demonstrated time and again - sometimes intentionally even.
--
Will Honea
wrote:
> It will start and run. Whether it will vapor lock or freeze and flame
> out on climbout or overtemp when you go to takeoff power,is another
> question. But if I was on the ramp in an overrun third world shithole
> and it was fly out or get taken prisoner, I'd do it. It would, with
> some sense, get me home.
Even more common - put a jet down in some west-of-nowhere location and
the AF will do the arithmetic: is the resulting inspection/repair
cheaper and quicker than trucking in a load of JP4? We never sweated
the vaporlock issue and freezeup (in RVN or South Texas) was pretty
unlikely below 15-20,000 feet even in winter unless it was cut with
water but that tailpipe temp was a bugger, especially on start before
the RPM got up enough to keep the flame off the pipe. I did bring a
few home with whatever the Army had available at the fire support
bases in Vietnam - pumped by hand from non-descript 50 gallon drums -
as about everyone in the chain of command agreed that spending the
night waiting for a fuel truck was not a very good idea.
But running used Mac D's used fry oil in a turbine is a whole lot
different than putting the raw stuff in a diesel engine. What works
for turbines is completely immaterial to a discussion of diesel
engines as we know them and comparing mil spec diesels to the civilian
counterparts is equally unproductive. The damage to a diesel engine
from trying to run it on straight gasoline (leaded or not) has been
demonstrated time and again - sometimes intentionally even.
--
Will Honea
#105
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 20:41:49 UTC larboard34@hotmail.com (Ted Azito)
wrote:
> It will start and run. Whether it will vapor lock or freeze and flame
> out on climbout or overtemp when you go to takeoff power,is another
> question. But if I was on the ramp in an overrun third world shithole
> and it was fly out or get taken prisoner, I'd do it. It would, with
> some sense, get me home.
Even more common - put a jet down in some west-of-nowhere location and
the AF will do the arithmetic: is the resulting inspection/repair
cheaper and quicker than trucking in a load of JP4? We never sweated
the vaporlock issue and freezeup (in RVN or South Texas) was pretty
unlikely below 15-20,000 feet even in winter unless it was cut with
water but that tailpipe temp was a bugger, especially on start before
the RPM got up enough to keep the flame off the pipe. I did bring a
few home with whatever the Army had available at the fire support
bases in Vietnam - pumped by hand from non-descript 50 gallon drums -
as about everyone in the chain of command agreed that spending the
night waiting for a fuel truck was not a very good idea.
But running used Mac D's used fry oil in a turbine is a whole lot
different than putting the raw stuff in a diesel engine. What works
for turbines is completely immaterial to a discussion of diesel
engines as we know them and comparing mil spec diesels to the civilian
counterparts is equally unproductive. The damage to a diesel engine
from trying to run it on straight gasoline (leaded or not) has been
demonstrated time and again - sometimes intentionally even.
--
Will Honea
wrote:
> It will start and run. Whether it will vapor lock or freeze and flame
> out on climbout or overtemp when you go to takeoff power,is another
> question. But if I was on the ramp in an overrun third world shithole
> and it was fly out or get taken prisoner, I'd do it. It would, with
> some sense, get me home.
Even more common - put a jet down in some west-of-nowhere location and
the AF will do the arithmetic: is the resulting inspection/repair
cheaper and quicker than trucking in a load of JP4? We never sweated
the vaporlock issue and freezeup (in RVN or South Texas) was pretty
unlikely below 15-20,000 feet even in winter unless it was cut with
water but that tailpipe temp was a bugger, especially on start before
the RPM got up enough to keep the flame off the pipe. I did bring a
few home with whatever the Army had available at the fire support
bases in Vietnam - pumped by hand from non-descript 50 gallon drums -
as about everyone in the chain of command agreed that spending the
night waiting for a fuel truck was not a very good idea.
But running used Mac D's used fry oil in a turbine is a whole lot
different than putting the raw stuff in a diesel engine. What works
for turbines is completely immaterial to a discussion of diesel
engines as we know them and comparing mil spec diesels to the civilian
counterparts is equally unproductive. The damage to a diesel engine
from trying to run it on straight gasoline (leaded or not) has been
demonstrated time and again - sometimes intentionally even.
--
Will Honea
#106
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
Bill is a little dense. That's all I can say, he does not read
correctly what I wrote and, further, keeps posting the same link to a
web page that isn't the whole story-it's a very generalized picture
for school kids.
I have wrenched on both Diesel and Gas Turbine engines and Bill,
apparently, has not. I know pretty well what you can and can't get
away with fuelwise because I've seen the disasters.
Diesel fuel in turbines is usually OK, if temps are watched, short
term. If the environmental freeze and coking points aren't
exceeded,etc. Helos and small turboprops in the warmer climates, this
isn't a problem. Avgas in turbines is (generally) bad. Gas turbines
are to a goodly extent, naturally multifuel engines and aviation fuels
are more engineered for the environment than the engine itself. Ground
gas turbines are often "good to go with anything that will burn".
I don't know why anyone would pick 115/145 for jet use if 80/87 or
100LL were available, or #1 Diesel, or in Mississippi in summer #2
Diesel if you kept below FL 200. All aviation gasolines are the same
except for lead content. The less the better (for turbines).
Kero is OK in diesels as long as lubricity is met (add oil) and
cetane requirements are something like in bounds. Cetane requirements
for Diesels differ with different engines, just like octane rating in
spark engines. Some diesels will eat K-1 straight,some with a little
oil, some don't like it at all. Almost all diesels are OK with up to
20-30% in #2 diesel, because that's how the stations "winterize" it.
Gasoline is NOT OK in diesel engines, although most will tolerate ten
or twenty percent unleaded gas (TEL is a cetane killer)in #2 as long
as it doesn't get out of suspension, "slug" the pump, and tear it up.
Some diesels will tolerate a lot more-but they're your pump,
injectors, pistons and valves and not mine. I have NEVER put gasoline
in a diesel personally, although I know of gensets that were run on
barrels drained out of a truck where someone had added a bunch of gas
by mistake, and didn't miss a beat.
Jet fuels-except the JP-7 which went the way of the SR-are _NOT_
straight kerosene. Your chart is full of ----. They are a wide cut of
16-chain hydrocarbons which vary a lot as long as the ASTM
requirements are met. (JP-4 is 8-chain hydrocarbons, which is why it's
called a wide cut gasoline and not a kerosene). JP-5/Jet-A is far
better for diesel use than K-1, and generally fine. I know many people
that bought old beater diesel cars and run them on nothing but
drained-out jet fuel. As long as they don't get a batch contaminated
with Skydrol or avgas they run forever.
Bill, if you tell me any of this is wrong, you're full of ---- and an
old hard-on talking out his ***. Put up a photo of your A&P license on
that web page and I'll maybe be more inclined to explain all this.
I've made it as simple as I can and you seem not to be able to
understand.
correctly what I wrote and, further, keeps posting the same link to a
web page that isn't the whole story-it's a very generalized picture
for school kids.
I have wrenched on both Diesel and Gas Turbine engines and Bill,
apparently, has not. I know pretty well what you can and can't get
away with fuelwise because I've seen the disasters.
Diesel fuel in turbines is usually OK, if temps are watched, short
term. If the environmental freeze and coking points aren't
exceeded,etc. Helos and small turboprops in the warmer climates, this
isn't a problem. Avgas in turbines is (generally) bad. Gas turbines
are to a goodly extent, naturally multifuel engines and aviation fuels
are more engineered for the environment than the engine itself. Ground
gas turbines are often "good to go with anything that will burn".
I don't know why anyone would pick 115/145 for jet use if 80/87 or
100LL were available, or #1 Diesel, or in Mississippi in summer #2
Diesel if you kept below FL 200. All aviation gasolines are the same
except for lead content. The less the better (for turbines).
Kero is OK in diesels as long as lubricity is met (add oil) and
cetane requirements are something like in bounds. Cetane requirements
for Diesels differ with different engines, just like octane rating in
spark engines. Some diesels will eat K-1 straight,some with a little
oil, some don't like it at all. Almost all diesels are OK with up to
20-30% in #2 diesel, because that's how the stations "winterize" it.
Gasoline is NOT OK in diesel engines, although most will tolerate ten
or twenty percent unleaded gas (TEL is a cetane killer)in #2 as long
as it doesn't get out of suspension, "slug" the pump, and tear it up.
Some diesels will tolerate a lot more-but they're your pump,
injectors, pistons and valves and not mine. I have NEVER put gasoline
in a diesel personally, although I know of gensets that were run on
barrels drained out of a truck where someone had added a bunch of gas
by mistake, and didn't miss a beat.
Jet fuels-except the JP-7 which went the way of the SR-are _NOT_
straight kerosene. Your chart is full of ----. They are a wide cut of
16-chain hydrocarbons which vary a lot as long as the ASTM
requirements are met. (JP-4 is 8-chain hydrocarbons, which is why it's
called a wide cut gasoline and not a kerosene). JP-5/Jet-A is far
better for diesel use than K-1, and generally fine. I know many people
that bought old beater diesel cars and run them on nothing but
drained-out jet fuel. As long as they don't get a batch contaminated
with Skydrol or avgas they run forever.
Bill, if you tell me any of this is wrong, you're full of ---- and an
old hard-on talking out his ***. Put up a photo of your A&P license on
that web page and I'll maybe be more inclined to explain all this.
I've made it as simple as I can and you seem not to be able to
understand.
#107
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
Bill is a little dense. That's all I can say, he does not read
correctly what I wrote and, further, keeps posting the same link to a
web page that isn't the whole story-it's a very generalized picture
for school kids.
I have wrenched on both Diesel and Gas Turbine engines and Bill,
apparently, has not. I know pretty well what you can and can't get
away with fuelwise because I've seen the disasters.
Diesel fuel in turbines is usually OK, if temps are watched, short
term. If the environmental freeze and coking points aren't
exceeded,etc. Helos and small turboprops in the warmer climates, this
isn't a problem. Avgas in turbines is (generally) bad. Gas turbines
are to a goodly extent, naturally multifuel engines and aviation fuels
are more engineered for the environment than the engine itself. Ground
gas turbines are often "good to go with anything that will burn".
I don't know why anyone would pick 115/145 for jet use if 80/87 or
100LL were available, or #1 Diesel, or in Mississippi in summer #2
Diesel if you kept below FL 200. All aviation gasolines are the same
except for lead content. The less the better (for turbines).
Kero is OK in diesels as long as lubricity is met (add oil) and
cetane requirements are something like in bounds. Cetane requirements
for Diesels differ with different engines, just like octane rating in
spark engines. Some diesels will eat K-1 straight,some with a little
oil, some don't like it at all. Almost all diesels are OK with up to
20-30% in #2 diesel, because that's how the stations "winterize" it.
Gasoline is NOT OK in diesel engines, although most will tolerate ten
or twenty percent unleaded gas (TEL is a cetane killer)in #2 as long
as it doesn't get out of suspension, "slug" the pump, and tear it up.
Some diesels will tolerate a lot more-but they're your pump,
injectors, pistons and valves and not mine. I have NEVER put gasoline
in a diesel personally, although I know of gensets that were run on
barrels drained out of a truck where someone had added a bunch of gas
by mistake, and didn't miss a beat.
Jet fuels-except the JP-7 which went the way of the SR-are _NOT_
straight kerosene. Your chart is full of ----. They are a wide cut of
16-chain hydrocarbons which vary a lot as long as the ASTM
requirements are met. (JP-4 is 8-chain hydrocarbons, which is why it's
called a wide cut gasoline and not a kerosene). JP-5/Jet-A is far
better for diesel use than K-1, and generally fine. I know many people
that bought old beater diesel cars and run them on nothing but
drained-out jet fuel. As long as they don't get a batch contaminated
with Skydrol or avgas they run forever.
Bill, if you tell me any of this is wrong, you're full of ---- and an
old hard-on talking out his ***. Put up a photo of your A&P license on
that web page and I'll maybe be more inclined to explain all this.
I've made it as simple as I can and you seem not to be able to
understand.
correctly what I wrote and, further, keeps posting the same link to a
web page that isn't the whole story-it's a very generalized picture
for school kids.
I have wrenched on both Diesel and Gas Turbine engines and Bill,
apparently, has not. I know pretty well what you can and can't get
away with fuelwise because I've seen the disasters.
Diesel fuel in turbines is usually OK, if temps are watched, short
term. If the environmental freeze and coking points aren't
exceeded,etc. Helos and small turboprops in the warmer climates, this
isn't a problem. Avgas in turbines is (generally) bad. Gas turbines
are to a goodly extent, naturally multifuel engines and aviation fuels
are more engineered for the environment than the engine itself. Ground
gas turbines are often "good to go with anything that will burn".
I don't know why anyone would pick 115/145 for jet use if 80/87 or
100LL were available, or #1 Diesel, or in Mississippi in summer #2
Diesel if you kept below FL 200. All aviation gasolines are the same
except for lead content. The less the better (for turbines).
Kero is OK in diesels as long as lubricity is met (add oil) and
cetane requirements are something like in bounds. Cetane requirements
for Diesels differ with different engines, just like octane rating in
spark engines. Some diesels will eat K-1 straight,some with a little
oil, some don't like it at all. Almost all diesels are OK with up to
20-30% in #2 diesel, because that's how the stations "winterize" it.
Gasoline is NOT OK in diesel engines, although most will tolerate ten
or twenty percent unleaded gas (TEL is a cetane killer)in #2 as long
as it doesn't get out of suspension, "slug" the pump, and tear it up.
Some diesels will tolerate a lot more-but they're your pump,
injectors, pistons and valves and not mine. I have NEVER put gasoline
in a diesel personally, although I know of gensets that were run on
barrels drained out of a truck where someone had added a bunch of gas
by mistake, and didn't miss a beat.
Jet fuels-except the JP-7 which went the way of the SR-are _NOT_
straight kerosene. Your chart is full of ----. They are a wide cut of
16-chain hydrocarbons which vary a lot as long as the ASTM
requirements are met. (JP-4 is 8-chain hydrocarbons, which is why it's
called a wide cut gasoline and not a kerosene). JP-5/Jet-A is far
better for diesel use than K-1, and generally fine. I know many people
that bought old beater diesel cars and run them on nothing but
drained-out jet fuel. As long as they don't get a batch contaminated
with Skydrol or avgas they run forever.
Bill, if you tell me any of this is wrong, you're full of ---- and an
old hard-on talking out his ***. Put up a photo of your A&P license on
that web page and I'll maybe be more inclined to explain all this.
I've made it as simple as I can and you seem not to be able to
understand.
#108
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
Bill is a little dense. That's all I can say, he does not read
correctly what I wrote and, further, keeps posting the same link to a
web page that isn't the whole story-it's a very generalized picture
for school kids.
I have wrenched on both Diesel and Gas Turbine engines and Bill,
apparently, has not. I know pretty well what you can and can't get
away with fuelwise because I've seen the disasters.
Diesel fuel in turbines is usually OK, if temps are watched, short
term. If the environmental freeze and coking points aren't
exceeded,etc. Helos and small turboprops in the warmer climates, this
isn't a problem. Avgas in turbines is (generally) bad. Gas turbines
are to a goodly extent, naturally multifuel engines and aviation fuels
are more engineered for the environment than the engine itself. Ground
gas turbines are often "good to go with anything that will burn".
I don't know why anyone would pick 115/145 for jet use if 80/87 or
100LL were available, or #1 Diesel, or in Mississippi in summer #2
Diesel if you kept below FL 200. All aviation gasolines are the same
except for lead content. The less the better (for turbines).
Kero is OK in diesels as long as lubricity is met (add oil) and
cetane requirements are something like in bounds. Cetane requirements
for Diesels differ with different engines, just like octane rating in
spark engines. Some diesels will eat K-1 straight,some with a little
oil, some don't like it at all. Almost all diesels are OK with up to
20-30% in #2 diesel, because that's how the stations "winterize" it.
Gasoline is NOT OK in diesel engines, although most will tolerate ten
or twenty percent unleaded gas (TEL is a cetane killer)in #2 as long
as it doesn't get out of suspension, "slug" the pump, and tear it up.
Some diesels will tolerate a lot more-but they're your pump,
injectors, pistons and valves and not mine. I have NEVER put gasoline
in a diesel personally, although I know of gensets that were run on
barrels drained out of a truck where someone had added a bunch of gas
by mistake, and didn't miss a beat.
Jet fuels-except the JP-7 which went the way of the SR-are _NOT_
straight kerosene. Your chart is full of ----. They are a wide cut of
16-chain hydrocarbons which vary a lot as long as the ASTM
requirements are met. (JP-4 is 8-chain hydrocarbons, which is why it's
called a wide cut gasoline and not a kerosene). JP-5/Jet-A is far
better for diesel use than K-1, and generally fine. I know many people
that bought old beater diesel cars and run them on nothing but
drained-out jet fuel. As long as they don't get a batch contaminated
with Skydrol or avgas they run forever.
Bill, if you tell me any of this is wrong, you're full of ---- and an
old hard-on talking out his ***. Put up a photo of your A&P license on
that web page and I'll maybe be more inclined to explain all this.
I've made it as simple as I can and you seem not to be able to
understand.
correctly what I wrote and, further, keeps posting the same link to a
web page that isn't the whole story-it's a very generalized picture
for school kids.
I have wrenched on both Diesel and Gas Turbine engines and Bill,
apparently, has not. I know pretty well what you can and can't get
away with fuelwise because I've seen the disasters.
Diesel fuel in turbines is usually OK, if temps are watched, short
term. If the environmental freeze and coking points aren't
exceeded,etc. Helos and small turboprops in the warmer climates, this
isn't a problem. Avgas in turbines is (generally) bad. Gas turbines
are to a goodly extent, naturally multifuel engines and aviation fuels
are more engineered for the environment than the engine itself. Ground
gas turbines are often "good to go with anything that will burn".
I don't know why anyone would pick 115/145 for jet use if 80/87 or
100LL were available, or #1 Diesel, or in Mississippi in summer #2
Diesel if you kept below FL 200. All aviation gasolines are the same
except for lead content. The less the better (for turbines).
Kero is OK in diesels as long as lubricity is met (add oil) and
cetane requirements are something like in bounds. Cetane requirements
for Diesels differ with different engines, just like octane rating in
spark engines. Some diesels will eat K-1 straight,some with a little
oil, some don't like it at all. Almost all diesels are OK with up to
20-30% in #2 diesel, because that's how the stations "winterize" it.
Gasoline is NOT OK in diesel engines, although most will tolerate ten
or twenty percent unleaded gas (TEL is a cetane killer)in #2 as long
as it doesn't get out of suspension, "slug" the pump, and tear it up.
Some diesels will tolerate a lot more-but they're your pump,
injectors, pistons and valves and not mine. I have NEVER put gasoline
in a diesel personally, although I know of gensets that were run on
barrels drained out of a truck where someone had added a bunch of gas
by mistake, and didn't miss a beat.
Jet fuels-except the JP-7 which went the way of the SR-are _NOT_
straight kerosene. Your chart is full of ----. They are a wide cut of
16-chain hydrocarbons which vary a lot as long as the ASTM
requirements are met. (JP-4 is 8-chain hydrocarbons, which is why it's
called a wide cut gasoline and not a kerosene). JP-5/Jet-A is far
better for diesel use than K-1, and generally fine. I know many people
that bought old beater diesel cars and run them on nothing but
drained-out jet fuel. As long as they don't get a batch contaminated
with Skydrol or avgas they run forever.
Bill, if you tell me any of this is wrong, you're full of ---- and an
old hard-on talking out his ***. Put up a photo of your A&P license on
that web page and I'll maybe be more inclined to explain all this.
I've made it as simple as I can and you seem not to be able to
understand.
#109
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
Bill is a little dense. That's all I can say, he does not read
correctly what I wrote and, further, keeps posting the same link to a
web page that isn't the whole story-it's a very generalized picture
for school kids.
I have wrenched on both Diesel and Gas Turbine engines and Bill,
apparently, has not. I know pretty well what you can and can't get
away with fuelwise because I've seen the disasters.
Diesel fuel in turbines is usually OK, if temps are watched, short
term. If the environmental freeze and coking points aren't
exceeded,etc. Helos and small turboprops in the warmer climates, this
isn't a problem. Avgas in turbines is (generally) bad. Gas turbines
are to a goodly extent, naturally multifuel engines and aviation fuels
are more engineered for the environment than the engine itself. Ground
gas turbines are often "good to go with anything that will burn".
I don't know why anyone would pick 115/145 for jet use if 80/87 or
100LL were available, or #1 Diesel, or in Mississippi in summer #2
Diesel if you kept below FL 200. All aviation gasolines are the same
except for lead content. The less the better (for turbines).
Kero is OK in diesels as long as lubricity is met (add oil) and
cetane requirements are something like in bounds. Cetane requirements
for Diesels differ with different engines, just like octane rating in
spark engines. Some diesels will eat K-1 straight,some with a little
oil, some don't like it at all. Almost all diesels are OK with up to
20-30% in #2 diesel, because that's how the stations "winterize" it.
Gasoline is NOT OK in diesel engines, although most will tolerate ten
or twenty percent unleaded gas (TEL is a cetane killer)in #2 as long
as it doesn't get out of suspension, "slug" the pump, and tear it up.
Some diesels will tolerate a lot more-but they're your pump,
injectors, pistons and valves and not mine. I have NEVER put gasoline
in a diesel personally, although I know of gensets that were run on
barrels drained out of a truck where someone had added a bunch of gas
by mistake, and didn't miss a beat.
Jet fuels-except the JP-7 which went the way of the SR-are _NOT_
straight kerosene. Your chart is full of ----. They are a wide cut of
16-chain hydrocarbons which vary a lot as long as the ASTM
requirements are met. (JP-4 is 8-chain hydrocarbons, which is why it's
called a wide cut gasoline and not a kerosene). JP-5/Jet-A is far
better for diesel use than K-1, and generally fine. I know many people
that bought old beater diesel cars and run them on nothing but
drained-out jet fuel. As long as they don't get a batch contaminated
with Skydrol or avgas they run forever.
Bill, if you tell me any of this is wrong, you're full of ---- and an
old hard-on talking out his ***. Put up a photo of your A&P license on
that web page and I'll maybe be more inclined to explain all this.
I've made it as simple as I can and you seem not to be able to
understand.
correctly what I wrote and, further, keeps posting the same link to a
web page that isn't the whole story-it's a very generalized picture
for school kids.
I have wrenched on both Diesel and Gas Turbine engines and Bill,
apparently, has not. I know pretty well what you can and can't get
away with fuelwise because I've seen the disasters.
Diesel fuel in turbines is usually OK, if temps are watched, short
term. If the environmental freeze and coking points aren't
exceeded,etc. Helos and small turboprops in the warmer climates, this
isn't a problem. Avgas in turbines is (generally) bad. Gas turbines
are to a goodly extent, naturally multifuel engines and aviation fuels
are more engineered for the environment than the engine itself. Ground
gas turbines are often "good to go with anything that will burn".
I don't know why anyone would pick 115/145 for jet use if 80/87 or
100LL were available, or #1 Diesel, or in Mississippi in summer #2
Diesel if you kept below FL 200. All aviation gasolines are the same
except for lead content. The less the better (for turbines).
Kero is OK in diesels as long as lubricity is met (add oil) and
cetane requirements are something like in bounds. Cetane requirements
for Diesels differ with different engines, just like octane rating in
spark engines. Some diesels will eat K-1 straight,some with a little
oil, some don't like it at all. Almost all diesels are OK with up to
20-30% in #2 diesel, because that's how the stations "winterize" it.
Gasoline is NOT OK in diesel engines, although most will tolerate ten
or twenty percent unleaded gas (TEL is a cetane killer)in #2 as long
as it doesn't get out of suspension, "slug" the pump, and tear it up.
Some diesels will tolerate a lot more-but they're your pump,
injectors, pistons and valves and not mine. I have NEVER put gasoline
in a diesel personally, although I know of gensets that were run on
barrels drained out of a truck where someone had added a bunch of gas
by mistake, and didn't miss a beat.
Jet fuels-except the JP-7 which went the way of the SR-are _NOT_
straight kerosene. Your chart is full of ----. They are a wide cut of
16-chain hydrocarbons which vary a lot as long as the ASTM
requirements are met. (JP-4 is 8-chain hydrocarbons, which is why it's
called a wide cut gasoline and not a kerosene). JP-5/Jet-A is far
better for diesel use than K-1, and generally fine. I know many people
that bought old beater diesel cars and run them on nothing but
drained-out jet fuel. As long as they don't get a batch contaminated
with Skydrol or avgas they run forever.
Bill, if you tell me any of this is wrong, you're full of ---- and an
old hard-on talking out his ***. Put up a photo of your A&P license on
that web page and I'll maybe be more inclined to explain all this.
I've made it as simple as I can and you seem not to be able to
understand.
#110
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ******/Ford Engine Swap? Possible?
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<40E2D4D6.4651FAD7@sympatico.ca>...
> So will just any old kind of 'fuel' work in a Jeep diesel then?
No. Each diesel engine has a set of requirements as to fuel that
won't cause damage. But there are different possible fuels that will
within those requirements work. If you have a specific fuel you want
to burn, get the engine manual and read it. Some engines will burn a
wider variety than others. It's just like a gasoline engine: an old
Model A will burn various kinds of garbage "gas" that would kill any
modern car engine.
Generally, Jet A is safe in diesels. I'm not guaranteeing it is, if
you get a batch that's low cetane, you possibly have bought a new set
of pistons, and neither the engine maker nor the fuel vendor will
listen to complaints. If you buy it as Diesel fuel and it happens-and
it has-you have a case, if you can prove that's what did it. I have
driven diesel cars (and fuel trucks) on Jet-A and flown in turbine
aircraft-legally and otherwise-on Diesel fuels and in neither case
worried too much.
> So will just any old kind of 'fuel' work in a Jeep diesel then?
No. Each diesel engine has a set of requirements as to fuel that
won't cause damage. But there are different possible fuels that will
within those requirements work. If you have a specific fuel you want
to burn, get the engine manual and read it. Some engines will burn a
wider variety than others. It's just like a gasoline engine: an old
Model A will burn various kinds of garbage "gas" that would kill any
modern car engine.
Generally, Jet A is safe in diesels. I'm not guaranteeing it is, if
you get a batch that's low cetane, you possibly have bought a new set
of pistons, and neither the engine maker nor the fuel vendor will
listen to complaints. If you buy it as Diesel fuel and it happens-and
it has-you have a case, if you can prove that's what did it. I have
driven diesel cars (and fuel trucks) on Jet-A and flown in turbine
aircraft-legally and otherwise-on Diesel fuels and in neither case
worried too much.