Lon Stowell

Approximately 8/13/03 21:56, Kenneth Garman uttered for posterity:

> "Snow" <snowball_2004@msn.com> wrote in message news:<F%v_a.8702$VG.271644@news20.bellglobal.com>. ..
>> > About 4 months ago I took delivery of my new Jeep Liberty.
>>
>> This was your first problem.. you bought a car based suvee thing.. not a
>> J**P...
>>
>
> Oh, that's just wonderful. Thank you so much for that insight. Can you
> please refer me to where in the Chrysler catalog it points out that
> the Liberty is any less capable than the rest of the jeep product
> line?

I don't have access to a Daimler Chrysler catalog at the moment, but
since you seem like such a smart young feller, I do have several
other items of extremely high value available for such a
discriminating buyer as you.

All of the following offers are true, and nowhere in my catalog
will you find any statements to the contrary.

How would you like to be the proud proprieter of your very own
bridge? It has a great location connecting two major urban
centers and is arguably one of the most desireable bridges in
the world based purely on the number of buy and sell offers.

Are you interested in your very own wetlands refuge? The ducks,
geese, snipe, and muskrats are optional, but the property has
promise...

No, wait, you seem more the type to invest in fine equestrian
properties. I have this highly experienced and gentle gelding
to offer...incapable of biting...

Joe

"The Germans are the worst driver of the world, nearly as bad as the
Japanese."
Wouldn't that make the Japenese the worst and not the Germans??? Besides,
everbody knows that the WORST drivers are minivan drivers... I rented one
once and I felt my driving skills drop 30-40%

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:3F3BBB55.51C5FFB7@***.net...
> The Germans are the worst driver of the world, nearly as bad as the
> Japanese.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Big Daddy wrote:
> >
> > Hmmm... I have a few friends that spent a few years there in the army
and
> > said that in the winter you'd see lots of Merc and Bimmers off the side
of
> > the road where they got stuck.
> >
> > If you were referring to 4WD, then just about any 4WD/AWD vehicle can do
> > that...

Lon Stowell

Approximately 8/13/03 22:04, Kenneth Garman uttered for posterity:

>>
>> Jeep can't help it you bought the hype and didn't know what you were doing!
>> You simply didn't research your selection and bought a poser. That was
>> _YOUR_ mistake and _YOUR_ problem. YOU bought the WRONG JEEP!
>
>
> So, Chrysler isn't resposnible for me believing what they told me?

Of course they are little darling. Now don't worry your curly
little head about it any more. Just ignore those big old meanieheaded
bullies and come inside and let mommy tell you a fairy tale about
the Big Bad Advertising Agency and the poor lost little princess.

> It's my fault that I should assume everything in their literature is
> -------- and I didn't?

Shirley you won't be blaming Gray Davis for this as well?
>
> Fine. As I said, I will never again buy a DaimlerChrylser vehicle.

Too bad DC doesn't have the RollsRoyce/Ferrari mentality where
they simply refuse to sell their products to buyers "beneath
their standards" or who are simply TSTL.

> Their E500 Sedan looks nice, but that is only if one assumes that they
> come with seats and an engine and paintjob. I woudln't want to make
> it MY problem that I bought the WRONG car, stupidly assuming that it
> acutally came with those parts just because it is shown in the
> commercials, expressed in their literature, and promised to me by the
> dealer.

You sound more like you'd be much happier with the BMW X5, and
so would we. Less of those obnoxious whining noises out on the
trails.

Frankly, I am willing to bet money you couldn't run Moab with a
built Rubicon.... and this is the streets, much less the trails.

Lon Stowell

Approximately 8/13/03 22:06, Kenneth Garman uttered for posterity:

> enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com (Earle Horton, Student Nurse) wrote in message news:<c4fb6539.0308131438.10a08c3a@posting.google. com>...
>> kenny_g@ev1.net (Kenneth Garman) wrote in message news:<c7ff7456.0308131028.64077c00@posting.google. com>...
>> > I realize the title of this message is somewhat inflammatory, and no
>> > offense is intended to those few of you who have built a worthwhile
>> > jeep out of aftermarket parts or your own ingenuity. But the vehicles
>> > as they are being offered for sale by Chrysler corporation are
>> > absolutely worthless off-road.
>> >
>> This is beautiful, but I have some questions.
>>
>> Ken, are you a Liberty basher who made this all up to "dis"
>> DaimlerChrysler Corporation?
>>
>> If this is all true, then where did you learn to drive? I have seen
>> Honda CRVs on the "intermediate" to "expert" trails above Silverton,
>> CO, where I live. These are by no means hard core rock crawling
>> trails, but definitely qualify as "off-road," at least in my book.
>> You gotta watch what's in front of you and feel what's underneath, and
>> then you won't go losing your exhaust system like you did.
>>
>> Earle
>
> No, and I drive just fine, thank you for asking.

Yeah, other than your choice of vehicle, trail, and driving
tactics. Next time you are in Moab [or Green River] stop
by the Jeep Posse and see if they have your picture plastered
on the wall.

Lon Stowell

Approximately 8/13/03 22:09, Kenneth Garman uttered for posterity:

> Bill Price <bprice@volcano.net> wrote in message news:<vjlhropj75edbd@corp.supernews.com>...
>> I still suspect this is a rough draft of a posting that we will see in
>> final form next April 1. What, in this newsgroup context, is a "troll"?
>>
>
>
> *shrug* Think what you want. I am relating my experiences openly and
> honestly. Agree, disagree, make fun of me for not being as wise as
> you, whatever. I've said my 2 cents worth and if it stops one single
> person from buying a Chrysler/Jeep/Liberty it will make me feel
> better. Actually, it made me feel better just to type it all out,
> even if all of you people just want to sneer at me for it.

Oddly enough, you *can* have one heck of a lot of fun offroad
around Moab in a Liberty. First you have to cure the confusion
between your ----- and your vehicle. Then it helps if you know
how to drive. Then it helps if you know how much ground clearance
your vehicle has, and select the trails and line that keeps the
disposable pieces away from the sandstone. So far, you've
batted zero on all counts.

In the late 60's I toured most of the Moab off-road trails in
nothing more butch than an MGB, 65 Corvair, and BIL's Bronco.
Just learn how much clearance you have and take along a big
sumbitch to help push.

FrankW

I used to drive my 72 Super Beetle VW on the local snowmobile trails
and on the frozen river, stock!. That little car was amazing for stuff
like that. I do prefer Jeeps though. But truthfully I'm one of them
drivers that never really put the new Jeep deep offroad. But then why
would I, as I own an Argo 6x6 which IMHO goes fricken anywhere.
More fricken places a 4x4 ATV or Jeep or anything else will
ever go. I bought it 6 years ago for hunting and the more I drive it The
more amazed I am of it. Believe me when I say it goes anywhere. For
instance, "loon ----" any 4x4 ATV would sink, "Dead fall" goes right
over it, "lakes,ponds" dag nab it, it floats, These are just some of the
obstacles I've traversed. Very few vehicles can folow me.

Lon Stowell wrote:
> Approximately 8/13/03 23:39, Grumman-581 uttered for posterity:
>
>
>>"Earle Horton" wrote ...
>>
>>>While not so good for rock crawling, they are
>>>great for sand and gravel.
>>
>>Not so sure about the gravel part of that comment, Earle... I had a bug many
>>years ago and although we put it through a lot of mud, I can remember one
>>time where I had pulled into some deep gravel and while exiting, managed to
>>sink down to the floor pan... The rear axle would also tend to cup under
>>when we went up the sides of levees and we would soon thereafter put mileage
>>on the top of the vehicle...
>
>
> Not the vehicles fault. Wrong tires for the terrain. A
> dune buggy VW will crawl sand dunes better than anything
> else I've ever seen, which includes built jeeps with float
> tires.
>

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Hi Earle,
Lets not get carried away, the Baja Bug will get some places and
the ***** did use it as design like the "Thing" they pawned off on us in
the seventies,: http://www.m38a1.ca/vwimage.html and some go fast with
2180s in sand rails, but, nothing, but nothing beats a water pumper:
http://www.atving.com/atvconnection/...jeepup.jpg.jpg
That's why competition areas are called names like Oldsmobile Hill. Have
you ever heard of Volkswagen hill?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> I can tell you right now that the Volkswagen air-cooled Beetle sedan is one
> of the best off road vehicles ever intentionally or unintentionally
> designed, both in stock form and modified. For WWII they even had
> amphibious and four wheel drive versions, also one that ran on gas generated
> by burning wood or coal. While not so good for rock crawling, they are
> great for sand and gravel. We even get a few dune buggies and (loosely)
> VW-based sand rails that venture up above Silverton each summer.
>
> Earle

spsffan

Apparently not old enough to remember that 64 chevy up on the butte in
Monument Valley.

DAve

Mike Polo wrote:
> Overactive gullibility gland... bought the advertising AND the sales pitch.
> How old are you?
>
>
>
> "Kenneth Garman" <kenny_g@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:c7ff7456.0308132110.13e0212@posting.google.co m...
>
>>> You wouldn't buy a compact car if you wanted a vehicle to haul
>>> things with would you?
>>
>>I might, and so would a lot of other people, if the car was repeatedly
>>advertised and proclaimed by the manufacturer as a super-duper amazing
>>cargo hauling vehicle.
>
>
>

Slim_Shady_Monkey

Well personally I disagree

I got a 1995 cherokee, and in the Uk they are big compared to most vehicles.

I got in an RTA the other day, a smal rover 25. The Rover doing 40 mph
hardly even moved the jeep. And ............. wrote off the Rover 25.

I know I wouldn't feel safer in any other vehicle..............and
personally won't
be buying anything smaller in future.

As for off-road........I've had it on mud, sand and floods
recently.............
just waiting for winter to try it on snow.
"Kenneth Garman" <kenny_g@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:c7ff7456.0308131028.64077c00@posting.google.c om...
> I realize the title of this message is somewhat inflammatory, and no
> offense is intended to those few of you who have built a worthwhile
> jeep out of aftermarket parts or your own ingenuity. But the vehicles
> as they are being offered for sale by Chrysler corporation are
> absolutely worthless off-road.
>
> About 4 months ago I took delivery of my new Jeep Liberty. The main
> reason I bought a jeep instead of some other kind of car was because
> of the tough off-road features touted in Jeep commercials. I wanted a
> vehicle capable of going anywhere, so I let the dealer talk me into
> all the recommended accessories for hard core 4-wheeling, such as
> light bar, tubular side steps, and hood cover. I outfitted myself with
> nearly everything in the mopar catalog! Needless to say I paid top
> dollar for this package, but that was what I wanted, so that I could
> go jeeping in tough terrain.
>
> Well, after breaking in the Liberty for a couple thousand miles I set
> off for Moab. I was ready to experience the true "Jeep Lifestyle."
> Much to my dismay, I immediately found the innards of my car scraping
> and grinding all over the place. I got stuck repeatedly. I
> understand that occasionally getting stuck is part of four wheeling,
> but this was ridiculous; I wasn't going anywhere and was routinely
> being passed up by people in other kinds of vehicles. Finally a
> particularly bad rock ripped loose the exhaust and I was done in.
> Total time in Moab, less than 1 day. Total off road miles covered,
> less than one. I limped back home to a massive repair bill. (In
> addition to the exhaust, this minimal amount of off roading apparently
> damaged several other systems as well, the damage just wasn't so
> obvious.)
>
> Needless to say, the Jeep dealer looked at me like I was crazy when I
> wanted this damage covered under the warranty. "But Jeeps are
> advertised and specifically marketed for hard-core offroading!" I
> protested. "That's why I bought the jeep! I told you that when I
> bought it!" And here are the exact words of his reply, straight from
> the Jeep dealer's mouth: "Don't be ridiculous. These Jeeps are not
> intended for serious off road use."
>
> So there you have it, direct from the official designated
> representative of Chrysler corporation. The 4-wheeling ability of
> Jeeps is ppurely a marketing ploy, but in truth they are about as
> off-road worthy as your typical Kia. (They should put that disclaimer
> on their commercials or be found guilty of deceptive advertising.)
>
> I will be selling the Liberty as soon as I can find a buyer for this
> piece of junk, and then I will cut my losses and buy what I probably
> should have bought in the first place: A nice luxury sedan, by any
> manufacturer other than Chrysler. As for Jeeps, I will never buy one
> again, and I intend to badmouth the brand to everyone who will listen.
>
> I hope my relating this experience in this public forum will save some
> other unfortunate sucker from the mistake of buying one of these
> pieces of junk!

Lon Stowell

Germans drive fast and aggressively, Italians are essentially
just Germans with less reliable cars. Japanese drivers aren't
really all that bad, but you haven't lived dangerously until
you've ridden in a "white" cab in downtown Seoul and told the
female driver you are in a hurry and a big tipper. The good
news is the local pedestrians seem not to mind sharing the
sidewalk with a speeding cab.

As for the minivan you rented, did it come with that big
electromagnet that pulls it right up to within a couple
feet of the car in front of you?


Approximately 8/14/03 10:59, Joe uttered for posterity:

> "The Germans are the worst driver of the world, nearly as bad as the
> Japanese."
> Wouldn't that make the Japenese the worst and not the Germans??? Besides,
> everbody knows that the WORST drivers are minivan drivers... I rented one
> once and I felt my driving skills drop 30-40%
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:3F3BBB55.51C5FFB7@***.net...
>> The Germans are the worst driver of the world, nearly as bad as the
>> Japanese.
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> Big Daddy wrote:
>> >
>> > Hmmm... I have a few friends that spent a few years there in the army
> and
>> > said that in the winter you'd see lots of Merc and Bimmers off the side
> of
>> > the road where they got stuck.
>> >
>> > If you were referring to 4WD, then just about any 4WD/AWD vehicle can do
>> > that...
>
>