Mike Romain

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F3A8B03.1305FDF9@sympatico.ca...
> > We get our stock Cherokee with it's running boards into places that have
> > ATV driver's jaws hanging open when they come across us.... They keep
> > wondering if there is another way in they don't know about...
>
> hi mike,
> are you referencing 2 wheel drive sport quads?
>
> --

Nope, big 4x4 things 15-25 miles or more back in the bush on trails it
took 2-4 hours to get there on.

We run on skinny twisty trails with lots of granite faces and big rocks
in the way and tons of bog crossings and creeks. The Jeeps can handle
some of those better than some ATV's because of the longer wheel base.

I could see serious damage happening to our Cherokee though if I didn't
get the right line and my wife or I have to get out and spot now and
then, but so far so good, we haven't managed to rip those damn running
boards off yet....

My wife blew a week old tire off on a sand pit wall climb once
though... I have had ATV's flip trying to follow me in my CJ7 up one
pit wall, that was a sport bike of some type though.... Got photos....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Sump

Real Jeeps are built not bought.

>

Mike Romain

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> "Nathan W. Collier" <abuse@A0L.com> wrote in message
> news:2hw_a.34806$VR6.724508@twister.southeast.rr.c om...
> : "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : news:3F3A8B03.1305FDF9@sympatico.ca...
> : > We get our stock Cherokee with it's running boards into places that have
> : > ATV driver's jaws hanging open when they come across us.... They keep
> : > wondering if there is another way in they don't know about...
> :
> : hi mike,
> : are you referencing 2 wheel drive sport quads?
> :
> :
> : --
> : Nathan W. Collier
> : http://7SlotGrille.com
> :
>
> Nathan, I see where you're going with this... I think Mike is referencing
> inexperienced drivers more so than equipment. Having said that, there are a
> lot of places even a 'sport-ute' 4wd ATV with lockers can get stuck. The
> difference is you can usually get off and lift yourself over a big log or
> rock.
>
> What do you think of the Yamaha Grizzly 660? I'm sceptical of the IRS but I
> like the power... I may settle for a Kodiak 450 if I buy anything at all.
> -Brian

These folks are all flavors, they just have never seen a Cherokee in
that deep before, it is ATV's only in their minds that could make the
road in.

Same for places we get the CJ7 into. I mean crap, they would have to
scratch the pickup to get in there....

We ripped off the windshield molding and one rain gutter molding and got
some nasty custom pinstripes on our last run early in the summer. It
was either that or bottom on the rocks...

My summer project was a body job for the Cherokee and my wife isn't too
worried about the scratches, it just got delayed.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Nathan W. Collier

"Cherokee-LTD" <spammenot@home.com> wrote in message
news:hGw_a.186009$rsJ.97684@news04.bloor.is.net.ca ble.rogers.com...
> there are a
> lot of places even a 'sport-ute' 4wd ATV with lockers can get stuck.

certainly! that said, i own and enjoy both very much. i just cant imagine
any place where a jeep can go that a 4x4 utility atv cant.

> What do you think of the Yamaha Grizzly 660? I'm sceptical of the IRS but
I
> like the power... I may settle for a Kodiak 450 if I buy anything at all.

unlike jeeping, IRS on a utility quad is exactly what you want. atv's that
dont have IRS use a swing arm that has ZERO articulation. based on this,
the IRS is superior. the exception to this being the old arctic cat line
(which is what i have, up through '02) uses an axle set up very similar to a
tj (solid axle with 4 control arms and no swing arm). this worked very well
but was dropped in favor of 4 wheel independent suspension because thats
what the market demands.

to answer your question, the grizzly 660 is an AWESOME utility quad, i
wouldnt hesitate to get one for a second. in fact, the yamaha rhino that im
getting when theyre available in october
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products...?lid=12&lc=sxs is based
on the 660 drivetrain.


--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com

Nathan W. Collier

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F3A9DE5.1CD068E3@sympatico.ca...
> Nope, big 4x4 things

were they being idiots or something? ive taken my arctic cat 500 4x4 over
each and every foot of trail at tellico, but i couldnt image even trying to
do the same thing in my wifes xj (or my rubicon for that matter) and it
doesnt have running boards.


--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com

Guest

show us the photos, show us the photos!!!

>
> My wife blew a week old tire off on a sand pit wall climb once
> though... I have had ATV's flip trying to follow me in my CJ7 up one
> pit wall, that was a sport bike of some type though.... Got photos....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

RichH

The Liberty was designed to "off-road" in shopping malls and soccer
field parking lots.
It's the ****'s way of getting even for losing WWI .... deceptive
marketing with an inferior product.

I ask you this serious question: Have your EVER seen a German car NOT
stuck when off road or in snow????? You NEVER will! On the east coast
we use German cars (includes Liberty) as slalom gates when it snows.

Too bad you didnt join this group before you bought the POS Liberty. We
could have warned you of its abomiable off-road performance.

Ted

Seems to me, you should started off with a little research! I find it hard
to believe you accepted what the salesman was saying as the truth.
One born every day as they say.

I can't keep the front end aligned on my 02 liberty just from daily street
driving. I'll be damn if I'm taking it wheeling. I leave that for my CJ.

And BTW, I'm getting rid of my Libby soon also. 37k miles and it needs new
tires along with another front end alignment.

Looks like another Ford Explorer for my wifes daily driver.

Ted


"Kenneth Garman" <kenny_g@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:c7ff7456.0308131028.64077c00@posting.google.c om...
> I realize the title of this message is somewhat inflammatory, and no
> offense is intended to those few of you who have built a worthwhile
> jeep out of aftermarket parts or your own ingenuity. But the vehicles
> as they are being offered for sale by Chrysler corporation are
> absolutely worthless off-road.
>
> About 4 months ago I took delivery of my new Jeep Liberty. The main
> reason I bought a jeep instead of some other kind of car was because
> of the tough off-road features touted in Jeep commercials. I wanted a
> vehicle capable of going anywhere, so I let the dealer talk me into
> all the recommended accessories for hard core 4-wheeling, such as
> light bar, tubular side steps, and hood cover. I outfitted myself with
> nearly everything in the mopar catalog! Needless to say I paid top
> dollar for this package, but that was what I wanted, so that I could
> go jeeping in tough terrain.
>
> Well, after breaking in the Liberty for a couple thousand miles I set
> off for Moab. I was ready to experience the true "Jeep Lifestyle."
> Much to my dismay, I immediately found the innards of my car scraping
> and grinding all over the place. I got stuck repeatedly. I
> understand that occasionally getting stuck is part of four wheeling,
> but this was ridiculous; I wasn't going anywhere and was routinely
> being passed up by people in other kinds of vehicles. Finally a
> particularly bad rock ripped loose the exhaust and I was done in.
> Total time in Moab, less than 1 day. Total off road miles covered,
> less than one. I limped back home to a massive repair bill. (In
> addition to the exhaust, this minimal amount of off roading apparently
> damaged several other systems as well, the damage just wasn't so
> obvious.)
>
> Needless to say, the Jeep dealer looked at me like I was crazy when I
> wanted this damage covered under the warranty. "But Jeeps are
> advertised and specifically marketed for hard-core offroading!" I
> protested. "That's why I bought the jeep! I told you that when I
> bought it!" And here are the exact words of his reply, straight from
> the Jeep dealer's mouth: "Don't be ridiculous. These Jeeps are not
> intended for serious off road use."
>
> So there you have it, direct from the official designated
> representative of Chrysler corporation. The 4-wheeling ability of
> Jeeps is ppurely a marketing ploy, but in truth they are about as
> off-road worthy as your typical Kia. (They should put that disclaimer
> on their commercials or be found guilty of deceptive advertising.)
>
> I will be selling the Liberty as soon as I can find a buyer for this
> piece of junk, and then I will cut my losses and buy what I probably
> should have bought in the first place: A nice luxury sedan, by any
> manufacturer other than Chrysler. As for Jeeps, I will never buy one
> again, and I intend to badmouth the brand to everyone who will listen.
>
> I hope my relating this experience in this public forum will save some
> other unfortunate sucker from the mistake of buying one of these
> pieces of junk!

Wranglerjeep1

All that damage is not the Jeeps fault....come on now in less than one mile you
tore up a new vehicle....thats YOUR FAULT. I bet all the other guys out there
got a good laugh from ya! Stay on the golf course and limit your off road
adventures to finding your lost ***** in the rough.

Brian
88 YJ

Big Daddy

Kenneth Garman wrote:

> I realize the title of this message is somewhat inflammatory, and no
> offense is intended to those few of you who have built a worthwhile
> jeep out of aftermarket parts or your own ingenuity. But the vehicles
> as they are being offered for sale by Chrysler corporation are
> absolutely worthless off-road.

And it's a shame...

> About 4 months ago I took delivery of my new Jeep Liberty. The main
> reason I bought a jeep instead of some other kind of car was because
> of the tough off-road features touted in Jeep commercials. I wanted a
> vehicle capable of going anywhere, so I let the dealer talk me into
> all the recommended accessories for hard core 4-wheeling, such as
> light bar, tubular side steps, and hood cover. I outfitted myself with
> nearly everything in the mopar catalog! Needless to say I paid top
> dollar for this package, but that was what I wanted, so that I could
> go jeeping in tough terrain.

Yeah... Never trust a salesman. Trust me... I used to be one... (sarcasm
intended).

You should have researched elsewhere first. First of all, I, and others,
really hate those dressed up Jeeps. You only need light bars if you plan to
really light up the woods at night, and I don't think the lights on the
Mopar light rack are even very strong lights. You might be better off with
some nice quality bright lights on the bumper. Maybe two sets of them.
Tubular side steps take clearance away and really aren't that much
protection.

A little research would have told you how limited an IFS is off road. The
wheel articulation is limited to the length of the A-arms movement, instead
of the whole lenght of the axle on a rigid axle, and when the wheels come
off the ground, they tilt inward at the bottom causing possible damage when
the wheels touch down. Solid axles are far superior off-road, and I don't
care if the Hummer has IFS. Hummers aren't any better off-road for most
conditions than a stock Wrangler. Serious off road magazines have
continually ridiculed the Liberty for how UNcapable it is off road.

> Well, after breaking in the Liberty for a couple thousand miles I set
> off for Moab. I was ready to experience the true "Jeep Lifestyle."
> Much to my dismay, I immediately found the innards of my car scraping
> and grinding all over the place. I got stuck repeatedly. I
> understand that occasionally getting stuck is part of four wheeling,
> but this was ridiculous; I wasn't going anywhere and was routinely
> being passed up by people in other kinds of vehicles. Finally a
> particularly bad rock ripped loose the exhaust and I was done in.
> Total time in Moab, less than 1 day. Total off road miles covered,
> less than one. I limped back home to a massive repair bill. (In
> addition to the exhaust, this minimal amount of off roading apparently
> damaged several other systems as well, the damage just wasn't so
> obvious.)
>
> Needless to say, the Jeep dealer looked at me like I was crazy when I
> wanted this damage covered under the warranty. "But Jeeps are
> advertised and specifically marketed for hard-core offroading!" I
> protested. "That's why I bought the jeep! I told you that when I
> bought it!" And here are the exact words of his reply, straight from
> the Jeep dealer's mouth: "Don't be ridiculous. These Jeeps are not
> intended for serious off road use."

Well, any damage from contact with rocks and stuff are the same as if you
ran into a wall. It's collision damage. It's not their fault. Now, if you
drove down a dirt road and something just broke on you, it is.

The only Jeeps that are truely for off-road are the Wranglers and Cherokees
(XJ). The Liberty is a serious poser, intended to gain back marketshare for
Jeep lost to families who use their SUV's as station wagons. The Grand
Cherokee is actually decent off-road, from what I gather, but still nothing
like the Wrangler.

> So there you have it, direct from the official designated
> representative of Chrysler corporation. The 4-wheeling ability of
> Jeeps is ppurely a marketing ploy, but in truth they are about as
> off-road worthy as your typical Kia. (They should put that disclaimer
> on their commercials or be found guilty of deceptive advertising.)

WRONG! You just bought the wrong Jeep. Get a Wrangler Rubicon and try and
convince yourself of that same statement. There isn't a factory made off
road vehicle on earth as capable. Now, I agree with JP magazine that the
low range might be too low for mud and sand, but with dual selectable
lockers, small factory lift, 31" MTR mud tires, rocker protection, 4-wheel
discs, and Dana 44's front and rear, you'd be hard pressed to find anything
factory built that could do the things that Jeep can do.

> I will be selling the Liberty as soon as I can find a buyer for this
> piece of junk, and then I will cut my losses and buy what I probably
> should have bought in the first place: A nice luxury sedan, by any
> manufacturer other than Chrysler. As for Jeeps, I will never buy one
> again, and I intend to badmouth the brand to everyone who will listen.
>
> I hope my relating this experience in this public forum will save some
> other unfortunate sucker from the mistake of buying one of these
> pieces of junk!

Jeep can't help it you bought the hype and didn't know what you were doing!
You simply didn't research your selection and bought a poser. That was
_YOUR_ mistake and _YOUR_ problem. YOU bought the WRONG JEEP! My virtually
stock '94 Wrangler will walk all over just about any 4wd vehicle you can
buy new that isn't a Jeep! Bring on the Land Rovers, Hummers, or whatever
you can throw at me...