Why Jeeps suck.
08-14-2003, 08:11 AM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Jeeps suck (with a side order of ATV talk).
"Cherokee-LTD" <spammenot@home.com> wrote in message
news:krJ_a.189115$rsJ.86480@news04.bloor.is.net.ca ble.rogers.com...
> I have about 10 minutes experience with the IRS on the 660 and it felt
> squishy
dont you mean "flexy"? :-) articulation does have its price.
> Granted, the IRS would excell in really rugged terrain... logs/rocks...
but
> I think the Kodiak 450 might be a better fit for me.
ultimately thats all that matters! my arctic cat is the slowest 500 class
quad built but i didnt buy it for racing anyway. those same guys that tease
me about being so slow get left behind when the going gets really rough, and
thats when my lil' cat comes to life. its a real shame arctic cat dropped
the ACT suspension option on the '03 models, its _really_ similar to a jeep
suspension and very effective when the going gets rough.
> I like technical trails
> AND flat out 2wd white knuckle fun! Maybe I need a Raptor AND a Grizzly
LOL.
NOW youre talking!
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
news:krJ_a.189115$rsJ.86480@news04.bloor.is.net.ca ble.rogers.com...
> I have about 10 minutes experience with the IRS on the 660 and it felt
> squishy
dont you mean "flexy"? :-) articulation does have its price.
> Granted, the IRS would excell in really rugged terrain... logs/rocks...
but
> I think the Kodiak 450 might be a better fit for me.
ultimately thats all that matters! my arctic cat is the slowest 500 class
quad built but i didnt buy it for racing anyway. those same guys that tease
me about being so slow get left behind when the going gets really rough, and
thats when my lil' cat comes to life. its a real shame arctic cat dropped
the ACT suspension option on the '03 models, its _really_ similar to a jeep
suspension and very effective when the going gets rough.
> I like technical trails
> AND flat out 2wd white knuckle fun! Maybe I need a Raptor AND a Grizzly
LOL.
NOW youre talking!
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
08-14-2003, 08:39 AM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Jeeps suck.
Just don't expect any other car manufacturer to be different.
Enjoy your walk.
"Kenneth Garman" <kenny_g@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:c7ff7456.0308132104.26e103a5@posting.google.c om...
> >
> > Jeep can't help it you bought the hype and didn't know what you were
doing!
> > You simply didn't research your selection and bought a poser. That was
> > _YOUR_ mistake and _YOUR_ problem. YOU bought the WRONG JEEP!
>
>
> So, Chrysler isn't resposnible for me believing what they told me?
> It's my fault that I should assume everything in their literature is
> -------- and I didn't?
>
> Fine. As I said, I will never again buy a DaimlerChrylser vehicle.
> Their E500 Sedan looks nice, but that is only if one assumes that they
> come with seats and an engine and paintjob. I woudln't want to make
> it MY problem that I bought the WRONG car, stupidly assuming that it
> acutally came with those parts just because it is shown in the
> commercials, expressed in their literature, and promised to me by the
> dealer.
Enjoy your walk.
"Kenneth Garman" <kenny_g@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:c7ff7456.0308132104.26e103a5@posting.google.c om...
> >
> > Jeep can't help it you bought the hype and didn't know what you were
doing!
> > You simply didn't research your selection and bought a poser. That was
> > _YOUR_ mistake and _YOUR_ problem. YOU bought the WRONG JEEP!
>
>
> So, Chrysler isn't resposnible for me believing what they told me?
> It's my fault that I should assume everything in their literature is
> -------- and I didn't?
>
> Fine. As I said, I will never again buy a DaimlerChrylser vehicle.
> Their E500 Sedan looks nice, but that is only if one assumes that they
> come with seats and an engine and paintjob. I woudln't want to make
> it MY problem that I bought the WRONG car, stupidly assuming that it
> acutally came with those parts just because it is shown in the
> commercials, expressed in their literature, and promised to me by the
> dealer.
08-14-2003, 08:48 AM
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Jeeps suck.
"Kenneth Garman" <kenny_g@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:c7ff7456.0308132056.67c8579d@posting.google.c om...
> > This was your first problem.. you bought a car based suvee thing.. not a
> > J**P...
> >
>
> Oh, that's just wonderful. Thank you so much for that insight. Can you
> please refer me to where in the Chrysler catalog it points out that
> the Liberty is any less capable than the rest of the jeep product
> line?
How about looking at it next to a TJ or asking someone who has been off road
before. My wife's comment when she saw her first Libby, "Cute", her
comment when we bought the TJ, "Lest go see what it will do" She had never
been off road before and she could tell the Libby was designed for the local
mall and occasional forays on unimproved roads/trails, not serious rough
stuff.
Anyone who believes marketing hype will learn a lesson. If indeed your
story is true (as hard as it is to believe) I'm sorry your lesson was so
expensive.
Dave Shannon (Spring Valley CA)
'01 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
08-14-2003, 08:54 AM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Jeeps suck.
http://www.attrition.org/gallery/tra...ion/stupid-vw/
"Kenneth Garman" <kenny_g@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:c7ff7456.0308132110.13e0212@posting.google.co m...
> > You wouldn't buy a compact car if you wanted a vehicle to haul
> > things with would you?
>
> I might, and so would a lot of other people, if the car was repeatedly
> advertised and proclaimed by the manufacturer as a super-duper amazing
> cargo hauling vehicle.
"Kenneth Garman" <kenny_g@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:c7ff7456.0308132110.13e0212@posting.google.co m...
> > You wouldn't buy a compact car if you wanted a vehicle to haul
> > things with would you?
>
> I might, and so would a lot of other people, if the car was repeatedly
> advertised and proclaimed by the manufacturer as a super-duper amazing
> cargo hauling vehicle.
08-14-2003, 10:55 AM
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Jeeps suck.
Kenneth Garman wrote:
>>
>> Jeep can't help it you bought the hype and didn't know what you were
>> doing! You simply didn't research your selection and bought a poser. That
>> was _YOUR_ mistake and _YOUR_ problem. YOU bought the WRONG JEEP!
>
>
> So, Chrysler isn't resposnible for me believing what they told me?
> It's my fault that I should assume everything in their literature is
> -------- and I didn't?
Any damage done because a rock scraped across the bottom of your Jeep is the
same has having an accident and hitting something. They are not
responsible. Second, every SUV promotes how far it can go off road. I've
seen commercials for Expeditions with them off road. Would you take one of
those to Moab?
It's no secret to the hoards of Jeep owners that Jeep is losing marketshare
due to the number of "crossover vehicles" and massive Tahoe and Expeditions
due to the market's realization that they never actually take them off
road, but rather use the 4wd system in the snow and the vehicle as a modern
"station wagon". Therefore, DaimlerChrysler has seen fit to begin a 2
pronged attack on the market. They make truely off road vehicles like the
Wrangler and they make "station wagons" that sell off the legendary off
road capability of vehicles they've made in the past - such as the CJ's,
Wranglers, and Cherokees - like the Liberty. The Grand Cherokee has been
designed to go off road better than the Liberty has, but it's days are
numbered for that use as they're currently designing an IFS for it too. It
costs DC a lot of money go build truely off road capable vehicles and that
means the prices of those vehicles are on the high side compared to
similar, less capable vehicles by Ford, GM, and the foreign makes.
Therefore, they've opted a different approach.
If you truely wanted to go off road, you should have done a little research
into what you should have bought. You should have picked up a few copies of
JP, Off Road, 4WD & Sport Utility, & Four Wheeler and paid attention to the
pictures to see what other off roaders on those Jamborees and off road
excursions are driving. You'll see a few Grand Cherokees, quite a few more
Cherokees, and a whole lot of Wrangler/CJ's. You'll also see some first gen
Broncos, Scouts, Toyota SR5/Tacoma's and other vehicles scattered around,
but you won't see Liberties there. If you do, they won't be going over
boulders, but rather be limited to gravel roads and grassy fields. You
should have also paid attention to how their vehicles are modified. Do they
run "nerf bars" and light bars? You'll find a few, but by far, most won't.
Do they have their vehicles lifted? Extra skid plates? Winches? There's
what helps off road, not light bars...
Also, people modify their Jeeps so heavily you'd think they could leap tall
buildings in a single bound, yet they scrape them, bust radiators, break
suspension pieces, and break down all the time. It's unfortuately part of
off roading if you're going to challenge yourself and your vehicle.
> Fine. As I said, I will never again buy a DaimlerChrylser vehicle.
> Their E500 Sedan looks nice, but that is only if one assumes that they
> come with seats and an engine and paintjob. I woudln't want to make
> it MY problem that I bought the WRONG car, stupidly assuming that it
> acutally came with those parts just because it is shown in the
> commercials, expressed in their literature, and promised to me by the
> dealer.
Have you seen any vehicle in a commercial doing anything (unless it's
tongue-in-cheek) other than driving up a dirt road? The only commerical I
saw was for the Rubicon that had it going over boulders, and it can do all
they claim with the right driver.
Next time you see a commercial for a Chevy Tahoe, Ford Explorer, Toyota 4
Runner, or whatever and it has the vehicle driving on some dirt road
somewhere, you should demand a retraction from the manufacturer and boycott
their products too, since it's a joke seeing anything like that on a trail!
Electronic descent control? What a joke!
Again, you should have done your research.
Lastly, off road driving is more technique than vehicle, though your choice
of vehicle is important. You should have learned how to do it before you
did by taking some very basic stuff and realizing that driving around that
rock would be better than driving over it. You should also be aware of
things like your minimum ground clearance, approach angle, departure angle,
and breakover angle if you don't want to scrape and do damage. Then, when
you see a rock that sticks up at least 12" and you only have 8" of ground
clearnance, you either need to stick a tire over it or drive around it, not
straddle it and have it hit the front diff cover and bust it, or tear the
exhaust off, or something.
This is in no way DaimlerChrysler's fault!
>>
>> Jeep can't help it you bought the hype and didn't know what you were
>> doing! You simply didn't research your selection and bought a poser. That
>> was _YOUR_ mistake and _YOUR_ problem. YOU bought the WRONG JEEP!
>
>
> So, Chrysler isn't resposnible for me believing what they told me?
> It's my fault that I should assume everything in their literature is
> -------- and I didn't?
Any damage done because a rock scraped across the bottom of your Jeep is the
same has having an accident and hitting something. They are not
responsible. Second, every SUV promotes how far it can go off road. I've
seen commercials for Expeditions with them off road. Would you take one of
those to Moab?
It's no secret to the hoards of Jeep owners that Jeep is losing marketshare
due to the number of "crossover vehicles" and massive Tahoe and Expeditions
due to the market's realization that they never actually take them off
road, but rather use the 4wd system in the snow and the vehicle as a modern
"station wagon". Therefore, DaimlerChrysler has seen fit to begin a 2
pronged attack on the market. They make truely off road vehicles like the
Wrangler and they make "station wagons" that sell off the legendary off
road capability of vehicles they've made in the past - such as the CJ's,
Wranglers, and Cherokees - like the Liberty. The Grand Cherokee has been
designed to go off road better than the Liberty has, but it's days are
numbered for that use as they're currently designing an IFS for it too. It
costs DC a lot of money go build truely off road capable vehicles and that
means the prices of those vehicles are on the high side compared to
similar, less capable vehicles by Ford, GM, and the foreign makes.
Therefore, they've opted a different approach.
If you truely wanted to go off road, you should have done a little research
into what you should have bought. You should have picked up a few copies of
JP, Off Road, 4WD & Sport Utility, & Four Wheeler and paid attention to the
pictures to see what other off roaders on those Jamborees and off road
excursions are driving. You'll see a few Grand Cherokees, quite a few more
Cherokees, and a whole lot of Wrangler/CJ's. You'll also see some first gen
Broncos, Scouts, Toyota SR5/Tacoma's and other vehicles scattered around,
but you won't see Liberties there. If you do, they won't be going over
boulders, but rather be limited to gravel roads and grassy fields. You
should have also paid attention to how their vehicles are modified. Do they
run "nerf bars" and light bars? You'll find a few, but by far, most won't.
Do they have their vehicles lifted? Extra skid plates? Winches? There's
what helps off road, not light bars...
Also, people modify their Jeeps so heavily you'd think they could leap tall
buildings in a single bound, yet they scrape them, bust radiators, break
suspension pieces, and break down all the time. It's unfortuately part of
off roading if you're going to challenge yourself and your vehicle.
> Fine. As I said, I will never again buy a DaimlerChrylser vehicle.
> Their E500 Sedan looks nice, but that is only if one assumes that they
> come with seats and an engine and paintjob. I woudln't want to make
> it MY problem that I bought the WRONG car, stupidly assuming that it
> acutally came with those parts just because it is shown in the
> commercials, expressed in their literature, and promised to me by the
> dealer.
Have you seen any vehicle in a commercial doing anything (unless it's
tongue-in-cheek) other than driving up a dirt road? The only commerical I
saw was for the Rubicon that had it going over boulders, and it can do all
they claim with the right driver.
Next time you see a commercial for a Chevy Tahoe, Ford Explorer, Toyota 4
Runner, or whatever and it has the vehicle driving on some dirt road
somewhere, you should demand a retraction from the manufacturer and boycott
their products too, since it's a joke seeing anything like that on a trail!
Electronic descent control? What a joke!
Again, you should have done your research.
Lastly, off road driving is more technique than vehicle, though your choice
of vehicle is important. You should have learned how to do it before you
did by taking some very basic stuff and realizing that driving around that
rock would be better than driving over it. You should also be aware of
things like your minimum ground clearance, approach angle, departure angle,
and breakover angle if you don't want to scrape and do damage. Then, when
you see a rock that sticks up at least 12" and you only have 8" of ground
clearnance, you either need to stick a tire over it or drive around it, not
straddle it and have it hit the front diff cover and bust it, or tear the
exhaust off, or something.
This is in no way DaimlerChrysler's fault!
08-14-2003, 11:00 AM
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Jeeps suck.
Richard Harris wrote:
> Hmmm.... Just spent 3 years in Germany....... Never saw German vehicles
> get stuck in the snow! Especially Unimogs, Mercs, BMW, AUDI, and
> Peoplescars. Not sure where you get that idea.... Arain envie maybe???
Hmmm... I have a few friends that spent a few years there in the army and
said that in the winter you'd see lots of Merc and Bimmers off the side of
the road where they got stuck.
If you were referring to 4WD, then just about any 4WD/AWD vehicle can do
that...
> Hmmm.... Just spent 3 years in Germany....... Never saw German vehicles
> get stuck in the snow! Especially Unimogs, Mercs, BMW, AUDI, and
> Peoplescars. Not sure where you get that idea.... Arain envie maybe???
Hmmm... I have a few friends that spent a few years there in the army and
said that in the winter you'd see lots of Merc and Bimmers off the side of
the road where they got stuck.
If you were referring to 4WD, then just about any 4WD/AWD vehicle can do
that...
08-14-2003, 11:36 AM
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Jeeps suck.
>So, Chrysler isn't resposnible for me believing what they told me?
>It's my fault that I should assume everything in their literature is
>-------- and I didn't?
Yep.
>
>Fine. As I said, I will never again buy a DaimlerChrylser vehicle.
>Their E500 Sedan looks nice, but that is only if one assumes that they
>come with seats and an engine and paintjob. I woudln't want to make
>it MY problem that I bought the WRONG car, stupidly assuming that it
>acutally came with those parts just because it is shown in the
>commercials, expressed in their literature, and promised to me by the
>dealer.
If that's the case, you should walk.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>It's my fault that I should assume everything in their literature is
>-------- and I didn't?
Yep.
>
>Fine. As I said, I will never again buy a DaimlerChrylser vehicle.
>Their E500 Sedan looks nice, but that is only if one assumes that they
>come with seats and an engine and paintjob. I woudln't want to make
>it MY problem that I bought the WRONG car, stupidly assuming that it
>acutally came with those parts just because it is shown in the
>commercials, expressed in their literature, and promised to me by the
>dealer.
If that's the case, you should walk.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
08-14-2003, 12:02 PM
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Jeeps suck.
Next time you are in central europe, take a look to see that most of the
cars still on the road have TIRE (cable) CHAINS applied, those that dont
are in the ditches.
Richard Harris wrote:
> Hmmm.... Just spent 3 years in Germany....... Never saw German vehicles get
> stuck in the snow! Especially Unimogs, Mercs, BMW, AUDI, and Peoplescars.
> Not sure where you get that idea.... Arain envie maybe???
> "RichH" <RhmpL33@NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
> news:3F3AA81E.1040509@NOSPAM.net...
>
>>The Liberty was designed to "off-road" in shopping malls and soccer
>>field parking lots.
>>It's the ****'s way of getting even for losing WWI .... deceptive
>>marketing with an inferior product.
>>
>>I ask you this serious question: Have your EVER seen a German car NOT
>>stuck when off road or in snow????? You NEVER will! On the east coast
>>we use German cars (includes Liberty) as slalom gates when it snows.
>>
>>Too bad you didnt join this group before you bought the POS Liberty. We
>>could have warned you of its abomiable off-road performance.
>>
>
>
>
cars still on the road have TIRE (cable) CHAINS applied, those that dont
are in the ditches.
Richard Harris wrote:
> Hmmm.... Just spent 3 years in Germany....... Never saw German vehicles get
> stuck in the snow! Especially Unimogs, Mercs, BMW, AUDI, and Peoplescars.
> Not sure where you get that idea.... Arain envie maybe???
> "RichH" <RhmpL33@NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
> news:3F3AA81E.1040509@NOSPAM.net...
>
>>The Liberty was designed to "off-road" in shopping malls and soccer
>>field parking lots.
>>It's the ****'s way of getting even for losing WWI .... deceptive
>>marketing with an inferior product.
>>
>>I ask you this serious question: Have your EVER seen a German car NOT
>>stuck when off road or in snow????? You NEVER will! On the east coast
>>we use German cars (includes Liberty) as slalom gates when it snows.
>>
>>Too bad you didnt join this group before you bought the POS Liberty. We
>>could have warned you of its abomiable off-road performance.
>>
>
>
>
08-14-2003, 12:42 PM
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Jeeps suck.
The Germans are the worst driver of the world, nearly as bad as the
Japanese.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Big Daddy wrote:
>
> Hmmm... I have a few friends that spent a few years there in the army and
> said that in the winter you'd see lots of Merc and Bimmers off the side of
> the road where they got stuck.
>
> If you were referring to 4WD, then just about any 4WD/AWD vehicle can do
> that...
Japanese.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Big Daddy wrote:
>
> Hmmm... I have a few friends that spent a few years there in the army and
> said that in the winter you'd see lots of Merc and Bimmers off the side of
> the road where they got stuck.
>
> If you were referring to 4WD, then just about any 4WD/AWD vehicle can do
> that...
08-14-2003, 01:33 PM
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Jeeps suck.
This guy has given the group the satisfaction of confirming the demise of
Chrysler, which we have been banging on about since the Liberty came out..
If he's a troll, then so are we all !!
--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Brian" <bsheller@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bsheller-77AE3C.19362013082003@nnrp04.earthlink.net...
: I thought about reading this thread, then I thought the better of it.
: Why bother? It's a blatant troll.
:
: B
:
: --
: Brian Heller
:
: It is easier to tame wild beasts
: than to conquer the human mind.
Chrysler, which we have been banging on about since the Liberty came out..
If he's a troll, then so are we all !!
--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Brian" <bsheller@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bsheller-77AE3C.19362013082003@nnrp04.earthlink.net...
: I thought about reading this thread, then I thought the better of it.
: Why bother? It's a blatant troll.
:
: B
:
: --
: Brian Heller
:
: It is easier to tame wild beasts
: than to conquer the human mind.
