Re: Switching Head bolts
 

Ha ha.... I'm getting to know you well Mike. After the last post that I
knew you'd have that reply as I was thinking I'd have the same reply. :-)

Thanks for the Devil's Advocate. I certainly hope my 'luck' doesn't fall
into the 'bad' category from here out. I'm already shot to my bones with
nerves on this one.

Come on housing crash so I can afford my own garage :-)

Bill




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:409FE117.73D0C0AD@sympatico.ca...
> I just like to play the devil's advocate some days Bill, I hope it works
> out great for you.
>
> Still, not knowing where the freaking bolts go sure doesn't instill
> confidence in the statement 'I choose him because he has done this mod
> before and is fully familiar with it.'
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike, the mechanic didn't put the thing together. The rebuilder/machine
> > shop did. They did the rebuild on the short block and put my previously
> > machined 4.0L head on it.
> >
> > There are two entities in this process. 1. the R&R guy, you can call
him a
> > mechanic. 2. The Machine Shop/Rebuilder.
> >
> > #2 is the one who bolted the thing together and I choose him because he
has
> > done this mod before and is fully familiar with it. This guy has a
history
> > of jeeps including racing sand jeeps. He's the best I could find in
this
> > area for this application.
> >
> > And
> >
> > He warranties the work for a year.
> >
> > He confirmed that it would be no problem for #1 (mechanic) to change the
> > bolts so if he's wrong he'll have to fix it if it comes down to it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:409FD597.39970CF5@sympatico.ca...
> > > He already has a mis match on the head gasket Steve.
> > >
> > > He is putting a 4.0 head onto a 4.2 block. That makes it a 'twitchy'
> > > installation to start.
> > >
> > > 'I' would not take a chance on blowing a new engine for something that
> > > dumb.
> > >
> > > Maybe that is just me, but.... If I forked out in the order of $2K
plus
> > > I most certainly would not take a chance on a head gasket that 'might
or
> > > might not' be compromised.
> > >
> > > I have assembled and have seen assembled a whole pile of engines over
> > > the years and most people, let alone 'mechanics' stop and think when
> > > they find 2 head bolts that are nutted studs instead of bolts.
> > >
> > > It seem 'logical' that these 'strange' bolt like things should go
> > > somewhere special eh?
> > >
> > > One is for the bracket, the other goes on the back drivers side corner
> > > for the ground strap to bolt onto.
> > >
> > > In all due fairness poor Bill's 'mechanic' is kinda on the brain dead
> > > side to just put it together wrong without checking wouldn't you say?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Steve G wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've done it hundreds of times and there won't be a problem
switching
> > the
> > > > bolts and just re-torquing those two. In all probability it's one of
the
> > > > outside bolts which are the last to be torqued in the sequence
anyways.
> > > >
> > > > In all fairness to the mechanic Mike, these guys have no way of
knowing
> > > > which bolt is supposed to have the stud on it and different
> > installations
> > > > sometimes have different positions for that bolt. May not be the
case
> > with
> > > > all 4.0, although I doubt that they all come the same way in all
> > > > applications. I know for a fact lots of Pontiac, Buick and Olds
v-8's
> > would
> > > > have the head bolts with the stud on it in different locations
depending
> > on
> > > > what model vehicle it was going in and the assembler would have no
way
> > of
> > > > knowing.
> > > > Steve G.
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:409FC445.928E9186@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > I don't know where some of these 'mechanics' come from....
> > > > >
> > > > > He put the 'wrong' bolt in the hole.....
> > > > >
> > > > > Man oh man, if it wasn't for bad you wouldn't have any luck at all
> > would
> > > > > you?
> > > > > ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I for one most certainly would not accept a rebuilt engine with an
> > > > > already 'blown' head gasket.
> > > > >
> > > > > Head gaskets only compress once.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just had my engine rebuilt. New cam, new crank 10/10, new
bearings,
> > new
> > > > > > pistons and rings, flywheel balanced and all married up to my
4.0L
> > head
> > > > out
> > > > > > the door.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now the R&R guy has noticed one of the head bolts is out of
position
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > power steering bracket so he needs to switch them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there any problem switching two head bolts which reside side
by
> > side
> > > > > > without going through the entire torquing sequence again?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That is, can these two bolts be taking out, switched, put back
in
> > and
> > > > > > torqued down without any problems?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > R&R guy says no problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill

Re: Switching Head bolts
 

Ha ha.... I'm getting to know you well Mike. After the last post that I
knew you'd have that reply as I was thinking I'd have the same reply. :-)

Thanks for the Devil's Advocate. I certainly hope my 'luck' doesn't fall
into the 'bad' category from here out. I'm already shot to my bones with
nerves on this one.

Come on housing crash so I can afford my own garage :-)

Bill




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:409FE117.73D0C0AD@sympatico.ca...
> I just like to play the devil's advocate some days Bill, I hope it works
> out great for you.
>
> Still, not knowing where the freaking bolts go sure doesn't instill
> confidence in the statement 'I choose him because he has done this mod
> before and is fully familiar with it.'
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike, the mechanic didn't put the thing together. The rebuilder/machine
> > shop did. They did the rebuild on the short block and put my previously
> > machined 4.0L head on it.
> >
> > There are two entities in this process. 1. the R&R guy, you can call
him a
> > mechanic. 2. The Machine Shop/Rebuilder.
> >
> > #2 is the one who bolted the thing together and I choose him because he
has
> > done this mod before and is fully familiar with it. This guy has a
history
> > of jeeps including racing sand jeeps. He's the best I could find in
this
> > area for this application.
> >
> > And
> >
> > He warranties the work for a year.
> >
> > He confirmed that it would be no problem for #1 (mechanic) to change the
> > bolts so if he's wrong he'll have to fix it if it comes down to it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:409FD597.39970CF5@sympatico.ca...
> > > He already has a mis match on the head gasket Steve.
> > >
> > > He is putting a 4.0 head onto a 4.2 block. That makes it a 'twitchy'
> > > installation to start.
> > >
> > > 'I' would not take a chance on blowing a new engine for something that
> > > dumb.
> > >
> > > Maybe that is just me, but.... If I forked out in the order of $2K
plus
> > > I most certainly would not take a chance on a head gasket that 'might
or
> > > might not' be compromised.
> > >
> > > I have assembled and have seen assembled a whole pile of engines over
> > > the years and most people, let alone 'mechanics' stop and think when
> > > they find 2 head bolts that are nutted studs instead of bolts.
> > >
> > > It seem 'logical' that these 'strange' bolt like things should go
> > > somewhere special eh?
> > >
> > > One is for the bracket, the other goes on the back drivers side corner
> > > for the ground strap to bolt onto.
> > >
> > > In all due fairness poor Bill's 'mechanic' is kinda on the brain dead
> > > side to just put it together wrong without checking wouldn't you say?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Steve G wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've done it hundreds of times and there won't be a problem
switching
> > the
> > > > bolts and just re-torquing those two. In all probability it's one of
the
> > > > outside bolts which are the last to be torqued in the sequence
anyways.
> > > >
> > > > In all fairness to the mechanic Mike, these guys have no way of
knowing
> > > > which bolt is supposed to have the stud on it and different
> > installations
> > > > sometimes have different positions for that bolt. May not be the
case
> > with
> > > > all 4.0, although I doubt that they all come the same way in all
> > > > applications. I know for a fact lots of Pontiac, Buick and Olds
v-8's
> > would
> > > > have the head bolts with the stud on it in different locations
depending
> > on
> > > > what model vehicle it was going in and the assembler would have no
way
> > of
> > > > knowing.
> > > > Steve G.
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:409FC445.928E9186@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > I don't know where some of these 'mechanics' come from....
> > > > >
> > > > > He put the 'wrong' bolt in the hole.....
> > > > >
> > > > > Man oh man, if it wasn't for bad you wouldn't have any luck at all
> > would
> > > > > you?
> > > > > ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I for one most certainly would not accept a rebuilt engine with an
> > > > > already 'blown' head gasket.
> > > > >
> > > > > Head gaskets only compress once.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just had my engine rebuilt. New cam, new crank 10/10, new
bearings,
> > new
> > > > > > pistons and rings, flywheel balanced and all married up to my
4.0L
> > head
> > > > out
> > > > > > the door.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now the R&R guy has noticed one of the head bolts is out of
position
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > power steering bracket so he needs to switch them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there any problem switching two head bolts which reside side
by
> > side
> > > > > > without going through the entire torquing sequence again?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That is, can these two bolts be taking out, switched, put back
in
> > and
> > > > > > torqued down without any problems?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > R&R guy says no problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill

Re: Switching Head bolts
 

Ha ha.... I'm getting to know you well Mike. After the last post that I
knew you'd have that reply as I was thinking I'd have the same reply. :-)

Thanks for the Devil's Advocate. I certainly hope my 'luck' doesn't fall
into the 'bad' category from here out. I'm already shot to my bones with
nerves on this one.

Come on housing crash so I can afford my own garage :-)

Bill




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:409FE117.73D0C0AD@sympatico.ca...
> I just like to play the devil's advocate some days Bill, I hope it works
> out great for you.
>
> Still, not knowing where the freaking bolts go sure doesn't instill
> confidence in the statement 'I choose him because he has done this mod
> before and is fully familiar with it.'
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike, the mechanic didn't put the thing together. The rebuilder/machine
> > shop did. They did the rebuild on the short block and put my previously
> > machined 4.0L head on it.
> >
> > There are two entities in this process. 1. the R&R guy, you can call
him a
> > mechanic. 2. The Machine Shop/Rebuilder.
> >
> > #2 is the one who bolted the thing together and I choose him because he
has
> > done this mod before and is fully familiar with it. This guy has a
history
> > of jeeps including racing sand jeeps. He's the best I could find in
this
> > area for this application.
> >
> > And
> >
> > He warranties the work for a year.
> >
> > He confirmed that it would be no problem for #1 (mechanic) to change the
> > bolts so if he's wrong he'll have to fix it if it comes down to it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:409FD597.39970CF5@sympatico.ca...
> > > He already has a mis match on the head gasket Steve.
> > >
> > > He is putting a 4.0 head onto a 4.2 block. That makes it a 'twitchy'
> > > installation to start.
> > >
> > > 'I' would not take a chance on blowing a new engine for something that
> > > dumb.
> > >
> > > Maybe that is just me, but.... If I forked out in the order of $2K
plus
> > > I most certainly would not take a chance on a head gasket that 'might
or
> > > might not' be compromised.
> > >
> > > I have assembled and have seen assembled a whole pile of engines over
> > > the years and most people, let alone 'mechanics' stop and think when
> > > they find 2 head bolts that are nutted studs instead of bolts.
> > >
> > > It seem 'logical' that these 'strange' bolt like things should go
> > > somewhere special eh?
> > >
> > > One is for the bracket, the other goes on the back drivers side corner
> > > for the ground strap to bolt onto.
> > >
> > > In all due fairness poor Bill's 'mechanic' is kinda on the brain dead
> > > side to just put it together wrong without checking wouldn't you say?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Steve G wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've done it hundreds of times and there won't be a problem
switching
> > the
> > > > bolts and just re-torquing those two. In all probability it's one of
the
> > > > outside bolts which are the last to be torqued in the sequence
anyways.
> > > >
> > > > In all fairness to the mechanic Mike, these guys have no way of
knowing
> > > > which bolt is supposed to have the stud on it and different
> > installations
> > > > sometimes have different positions for that bolt. May not be the
case
> > with
> > > > all 4.0, although I doubt that they all come the same way in all
> > > > applications. I know for a fact lots of Pontiac, Buick and Olds
v-8's
> > would
> > > > have the head bolts with the stud on it in different locations
depending
> > on
> > > > what model vehicle it was going in and the assembler would have no
way
> > of
> > > > knowing.
> > > > Steve G.
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:409FC445.928E9186@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > I don't know where some of these 'mechanics' come from....
> > > > >
> > > > > He put the 'wrong' bolt in the hole.....
> > > > >
> > > > > Man oh man, if it wasn't for bad you wouldn't have any luck at all
> > would
> > > > > you?
> > > > > ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I for one most certainly would not accept a rebuilt engine with an
> > > > > already 'blown' head gasket.
> > > > >
> > > > > Head gaskets only compress once.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just had my engine rebuilt. New cam, new crank 10/10, new
bearings,
> > new
> > > > > > pistons and rings, flywheel balanced and all married up to my
4.0L
> > head
> > > > out
> > > > > > the door.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now the R&R guy has noticed one of the head bolts is out of
position
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > power steering bracket so he needs to switch them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there any problem switching two head bolts which reside side
by
> > side
> > > > > > without going through the entire torquing sequence again?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That is, can these two bolts be taking out, switched, put back
in
> > and
> > > > > > torqued down without any problems?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > R&R guy says no problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill

Re: Switching Head bolts
 

I just have to add my 2 cents here Bill. I hope to heck that whatever they
do to fix the bolt problem works out for you. Things like this make me glad
that I rebuild my own stuff. Anyway, for what you paid for the rebuild, I
would insist that they change the head gasket. I don't know what type of
gasket they used, but some of them form quite a bond to the head and block
surfaces, so relaxing the bolt torque could cause the gasket layers to
separate slightly. Then it becomes leak time. Like Mike said, since there
were different types of bolts for the heads, the guy should have at least
asked you where the special bracket bolt belonged, unless he knew for sure
(which he didn't). The second thing here that would raise a red flag is the
fact that the rebuilder didn't insist on changing the gasket after his oops.
I rebuild engines in my own shop and would never risk that. Is he going to
do all the labor and reimburse you for your car rental, towing, etc. if the
gasket fails? If not, I would insist he change the gasket. The gasket is
probably about $40 at most, and and hour or two of his time to do it right.
IMHO, this sounds like poor quality work.

Chris


"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:2ga6scFhuirU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Ha ha.... I'm getting to know you well Mike. After the last post that I
> knew you'd have that reply as I was thinking I'd have the same reply. :-)
>
> Thanks for the Devil's Advocate. I certainly hope my 'luck' doesn't fall
> into the 'bad' category from here out. I'm already shot to my bones with
> nerves on this one.
>
> Come on housing crash so I can afford my own garage :-)
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:409FE117.73D0C0AD@sympatico.ca...
> > I just like to play the devil's advocate some days Bill, I hope it works
> > out great for you.
> >
> > Still, not knowing where the freaking bolts go sure doesn't instill
> > confidence in the statement 'I choose him because he has done this mod
> > before and is fully familiar with it.'
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike, the mechanic didn't put the thing together. The
rebuilder/machine
> > > shop did. They did the rebuild on the short block and put my
previously
> > > machined 4.0L head on it.
> > >
> > > There are two entities in this process. 1. the R&R guy, you can call
> him a
> > > mechanic. 2. The Machine Shop/Rebuilder.
> > >
> > > #2 is the one who bolted the thing together and I choose him because
he
> has
> > > done this mod before and is fully familiar with it. This guy has a
> history
> > > of jeeps including racing sand jeeps. He's the best I could find in
> this
> > > area for this application.
> > >
> > > And
> > >
> > > He warranties the work for a year.
> > >
> > > He confirmed that it would be no problem for #1 (mechanic) to change
the
> > > bolts so if he's wrong he'll have to fix it if it comes down to it.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:409FD597.39970CF5@sympatico.ca...
> > > > He already has a mis match on the head gasket Steve.
> > > >
> > > > He is putting a 4.0 head onto a 4.2 block. That makes it a
'twitchy'
> > > > installation to start.
> > > >
> > > > 'I' would not take a chance on blowing a new engine for something
that
> > > > dumb.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe that is just me, but.... If I forked out in the order of $2K
> plus
> > > > I most certainly would not take a chance on a head gasket that
'might
> or
> > > > might not' be compromised.
> > > >
> > > > I have assembled and have seen assembled a whole pile of engines
over
> > > > the years and most people, let alone 'mechanics' stop and think when
> > > > they find 2 head bolts that are nutted studs instead of bolts.
> > > >
> > > > It seem 'logical' that these 'strange' bolt like things should go
> > > > somewhere special eh?
> > > >
> > > > One is for the bracket, the other goes on the back drivers side
corner
> > > > for the ground strap to bolt onto.
> > > >
> > > > In all due fairness poor Bill's 'mechanic' is kinda on the brain
dead
> > > > side to just put it together wrong without checking wouldn't you
say?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Steve G wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've done it hundreds of times and there won't be a problem
> switching
> > > the
> > > > > bolts and just re-torquing those two. In all probability it's one
of
> the
> > > > > outside bolts which are the last to be torqued in the sequence
> anyways.
> > > > >
> > > > > In all fairness to the mechanic Mike, these guys have no way of
> knowing
> > > > > which bolt is supposed to have the stud on it and different
> > > installations
> > > > > sometimes have different positions for that bolt. May not be the
> case
> > > with
> > > > > all 4.0, although I doubt that they all come the same way in all
> > > > > applications. I know for a fact lots of Pontiac, Buick and Olds
> v-8's
> > > would
> > > > > have the head bolts with the stud on it in different locations
> depending
> > > on
> > > > > what model vehicle it was going in and the assembler would have no
> way
> > > of
> > > > > knowing.
> > > > > Steve G.
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:409FC445.928E9186@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I don't know where some of these 'mechanics' come from....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He put the 'wrong' bolt in the hole.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Man oh man, if it wasn't for bad you wouldn't have any luck at
all
> > > would
> > > > > > you?
> > > > > > ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I for one most certainly would not accept a rebuilt engine with
an
> > > > > > already 'blown' head gasket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Head gaskets only compress once.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just had my engine rebuilt. New cam, new crank 10/10, new
> bearings,
> > > new
> > > > > > > pistons and rings, flywheel balanced and all married up to my
> 4.0L
> > > head
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > the door.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now the R&R guy has noticed one of the head bolts is out of
> position
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > power steering bracket so he needs to switch them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is there any problem switching two head bolts which reside
side
> by
> > > side
> > > > > > > without going through the entire torquing sequence again?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That is, can these two bolts be taking out, switched, put back
> in
> > > and
> > > > > > > torqued down without any problems?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > R&R guy says no problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
>
>

Re: Switching Head bolts
 

I just have to add my 2 cents here Bill. I hope to heck that whatever they
do to fix the bolt problem works out for you. Things like this make me glad
that I rebuild my own stuff. Anyway, for what you paid for the rebuild, I
would insist that they change the head gasket. I don't know what type of
gasket they used, but some of them form quite a bond to the head and block
surfaces, so relaxing the bolt torque could cause the gasket layers to
separate slightly. Then it becomes leak time. Like Mike said, since there
were different types of bolts for the heads, the guy should have at least
asked you where the special bracket bolt belonged, unless he knew for sure
(which he didn't). The second thing here that would raise a red flag is the
fact that the rebuilder didn't insist on changing the gasket after his oops.
I rebuild engines in my own shop and would never risk that. Is he going to
do all the labor and reimburse you for your car rental, towing, etc. if the
gasket fails? If not, I would insist he change the gasket. The gasket is
probably about $40 at most, and and hour or two of his time to do it right.
IMHO, this sounds like poor quality work.

Chris


"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:2ga6scFhuirU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Ha ha.... I'm getting to know you well Mike. After the last post that I
> knew you'd have that reply as I was thinking I'd have the same reply. :-)
>
> Thanks for the Devil's Advocate. I certainly hope my 'luck' doesn't fall
> into the 'bad' category from here out. I'm already shot to my bones with
> nerves on this one.
>
> Come on housing crash so I can afford my own garage :-)
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:409FE117.73D0C0AD@sympatico.ca...
> > I just like to play the devil's advocate some days Bill, I hope it works
> > out great for you.
> >
> > Still, not knowing where the freaking bolts go sure doesn't instill
> > confidence in the statement 'I choose him because he has done this mod
> > before and is fully familiar with it.'
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike, the mechanic didn't put the thing together. The
rebuilder/machine
> > > shop did. They did the rebuild on the short block and put my
previously
> > > machined 4.0L head on it.
> > >
> > > There are two entities in this process. 1. the R&R guy, you can call
> him a
> > > mechanic. 2. The Machine Shop/Rebuilder.
> > >
> > > #2 is the one who bolted the thing together and I choose him because
he
> has
> > > done this mod before and is fully familiar with it. This guy has a
> history
> > > of jeeps including racing sand jeeps. He's the best I could find in
> this
> > > area for this application.
> > >
> > > And
> > >
> > > He warranties the work for a year.
> > >
> > > He confirmed that it would be no problem for #1 (mechanic) to change
the
> > > bolts so if he's wrong he'll have to fix it if it comes down to it.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:409FD597.39970CF5@sympatico.ca...
> > > > He already has a mis match on the head gasket Steve.
> > > >
> > > > He is putting a 4.0 head onto a 4.2 block. That makes it a
'twitchy'
> > > > installation to start.
> > > >
> > > > 'I' would not take a chance on blowing a new engine for something
that
> > > > dumb.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe that is just me, but.... If I forked out in the order of $2K
> plus
> > > > I most certainly would not take a chance on a head gasket that
'might
> or
> > > > might not' be compromised.
> > > >
> > > > I have assembled and have seen assembled a whole pile of engines
over
> > > > the years and most people, let alone 'mechanics' stop and think when
> > > > they find 2 head bolts that are nutted studs instead of bolts.
> > > >
> > > > It seem 'logical' that these 'strange' bolt like things should go
> > > > somewhere special eh?
> > > >
> > > > One is for the bracket, the other goes on the back drivers side
corner
> > > > for the ground strap to bolt onto.
> > > >
> > > > In all due fairness poor Bill's 'mechanic' is kinda on the brain
dead
> > > > side to just put it together wrong without checking wouldn't you
say?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Steve G wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've done it hundreds of times and there won't be a problem
> switching
> > > the
> > > > > bolts and just re-torquing those two. In all probability it's one
of
> the
> > > > > outside bolts which are the last to be torqued in the sequence
> anyways.
> > > > >
> > > > > In all fairness to the mechanic Mike, these guys have no way of
> knowing
> > > > > which bolt is supposed to have the stud on it and different
> > > installations
> > > > > sometimes have different positions for that bolt. May not be the
> case
> > > with
> > > > > all 4.0, although I doubt that they all come the same way in all
> > > > > applications. I know for a fact lots of Pontiac, Buick and Olds
> v-8's
> > > would
> > > > > have the head bolts with the stud on it in different locations
> depending
> > > on
> > > > > what model vehicle it was going in and the assembler would have no
> way
> > > of
> > > > > knowing.
> > > > > Steve G.
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:409FC445.928E9186@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I don't know where some of these 'mechanics' come from....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He put the 'wrong' bolt in the hole.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Man oh man, if it wasn't for bad you wouldn't have any luck at
all
> > > would
> > > > > > you?
> > > > > > ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I for one most certainly would not accept a rebuilt engine with
an
> > > > > > already 'blown' head gasket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Head gaskets only compress once.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just had my engine rebuilt. New cam, new crank 10/10, new
> bearings,
> > > new
> > > > > > > pistons and rings, flywheel balanced and all married up to my
> 4.0L
> > > head
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > the door.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now the R&R guy has noticed one of the head bolts is out of
> position
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > power steering bracket so he needs to switch them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is there any problem switching two head bolts which reside
side
> by
> > > side
> > > > > > > without going through the entire torquing sequence again?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That is, can these two bolts be taking out, switched, put back
> in
> > > and
> > > > > > > torqued down without any problems?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > R&R guy says no problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
>
>

Re: Switching Head bolts
 

I just have to add my 2 cents here Bill. I hope to heck that whatever they
do to fix the bolt problem works out for you. Things like this make me glad
that I rebuild my own stuff. Anyway, for what you paid for the rebuild, I
would insist that they change the head gasket. I don't know what type of
gasket they used, but some of them form quite a bond to the head and block
surfaces, so relaxing the bolt torque could cause the gasket layers to
separate slightly. Then it becomes leak time. Like Mike said, since there
were different types of bolts for the heads, the guy should have at least
asked you where the special bracket bolt belonged, unless he knew for sure
(which he didn't). The second thing here that would raise a red flag is the
fact that the rebuilder didn't insist on changing the gasket after his oops.
I rebuild engines in my own shop and would never risk that. Is he going to
do all the labor and reimburse you for your car rental, towing, etc. if the
gasket fails? If not, I would insist he change the gasket. The gasket is
probably about $40 at most, and and hour or two of his time to do it right.
IMHO, this sounds like poor quality work.

Chris


"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:2ga6scFhuirU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Ha ha.... I'm getting to know you well Mike. After the last post that I
> knew you'd have that reply as I was thinking I'd have the same reply. :-)
>
> Thanks for the Devil's Advocate. I certainly hope my 'luck' doesn't fall
> into the 'bad' category from here out. I'm already shot to my bones with
> nerves on this one.
>
> Come on housing crash so I can afford my own garage :-)
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:409FE117.73D0C0AD@sympatico.ca...
> > I just like to play the devil's advocate some days Bill, I hope it works
> > out great for you.
> >
> > Still, not knowing where the freaking bolts go sure doesn't instill
> > confidence in the statement 'I choose him because he has done this mod
> > before and is fully familiar with it.'
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike, the mechanic didn't put the thing together. The
rebuilder/machine
> > > shop did. They did the rebuild on the short block and put my
previously
> > > machined 4.0L head on it.
> > >
> > > There are two entities in this process. 1. the R&R guy, you can call
> him a
> > > mechanic. 2. The Machine Shop/Rebuilder.
> > >
> > > #2 is the one who bolted the thing together and I choose him because
he
> has
> > > done this mod before and is fully familiar with it. This guy has a
> history
> > > of jeeps including racing sand jeeps. He's the best I could find in
> this
> > > area for this application.
> > >
> > > And
> > >
> > > He warranties the work for a year.
> > >
> > > He confirmed that it would be no problem for #1 (mechanic) to change
the
> > > bolts so if he's wrong he'll have to fix it if it comes down to it.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:409FD597.39970CF5@sympatico.ca...
> > > > He already has a mis match on the head gasket Steve.
> > > >
> > > > He is putting a 4.0 head onto a 4.2 block. That makes it a
'twitchy'
> > > > installation to start.
> > > >
> > > > 'I' would not take a chance on blowing a new engine for something
that
> > > > dumb.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe that is just me, but.... If I forked out in the order of $2K
> plus
> > > > I most certainly would not take a chance on a head gasket that
'might
> or
> > > > might not' be compromised.
> > > >
> > > > I have assembled and have seen assembled a whole pile of engines
over
> > > > the years and most people, let alone 'mechanics' stop and think when
> > > > they find 2 head bolts that are nutted studs instead of bolts.
> > > >
> > > > It seem 'logical' that these 'strange' bolt like things should go
> > > > somewhere special eh?
> > > >
> > > > One is for the bracket, the other goes on the back drivers side
corner
> > > > for the ground strap to bolt onto.
> > > >
> > > > In all due fairness poor Bill's 'mechanic' is kinda on the brain
dead
> > > > side to just put it together wrong without checking wouldn't you
say?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Steve G wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've done it hundreds of times and there won't be a problem
> switching
> > > the
> > > > > bolts and just re-torquing those two. In all probability it's one
of
> the
> > > > > outside bolts which are the last to be torqued in the sequence
> anyways.
> > > > >
> > > > > In all fairness to the mechanic Mike, these guys have no way of
> knowing
> > > > > which bolt is supposed to have the stud on it and different
> > > installations
> > > > > sometimes have different positions for that bolt. May not be the
> case
> > > with
> > > > > all 4.0, although I doubt that they all come the same way in all
> > > > > applications. I know for a fact lots of Pontiac, Buick and Olds
> v-8's
> > > would
> > > > > have the head bolts with the stud on it in different locations
> depending
> > > on
> > > > > what model vehicle it was going in and the assembler would have no
> way
> > > of
> > > > > knowing.
> > > > > Steve G.
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:409FC445.928E9186@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I don't know where some of these 'mechanics' come from....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He put the 'wrong' bolt in the hole.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Man oh man, if it wasn't for bad you wouldn't have any luck at
all
> > > would
> > > > > > you?
> > > > > > ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I for one most certainly would not accept a rebuilt engine with
an
> > > > > > already 'blown' head gasket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Head gaskets only compress once.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just had my engine rebuilt. New cam, new crank 10/10, new
> bearings,
> > > new
> > > > > > > pistons and rings, flywheel balanced and all married up to my
> 4.0L
> > > head
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > the door.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now the R&R guy has noticed one of the head bolts is out of
> position
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > power steering bracket so he needs to switch them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is there any problem switching two head bolts which reside
side
> by
> > > side
> > > > > > > without going through the entire torquing sequence again?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That is, can these two bolts be taking out, switched, put back
> in
> > > and
> > > > > > > torqued down without any problems?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > R&R guy says no problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
>
>

Re: Switching Head bolts
 

I just have to add my 2 cents here Bill. I hope to heck that whatever they
do to fix the bolt problem works out for you. Things like this make me glad
that I rebuild my own stuff. Anyway, for what you paid for the rebuild, I
would insist that they change the head gasket. I don't know what type of
gasket they used, but some of them form quite a bond to the head and block
surfaces, so relaxing the bolt torque could cause the gasket layers to
separate slightly. Then it becomes leak time. Like Mike said, since there
were different types of bolts for the heads, the guy should have at least
asked you where the special bracket bolt belonged, unless he knew for sure
(which he didn't). The second thing here that would raise a red flag is the
fact that the rebuilder didn't insist on changing the gasket after his oops.
I rebuild engines in my own shop and would never risk that. Is he going to
do all the labor and reimburse you for your car rental, towing, etc. if the
gasket fails? If not, I would insist he change the gasket. The gasket is
probably about $40 at most, and and hour or two of his time to do it right.
IMHO, this sounds like poor quality work.

Chris


"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:2ga6scFhuirU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Ha ha.... I'm getting to know you well Mike. After the last post that I
> knew you'd have that reply as I was thinking I'd have the same reply. :-)
>
> Thanks for the Devil's Advocate. I certainly hope my 'luck' doesn't fall
> into the 'bad' category from here out. I'm already shot to my bones with
> nerves on this one.
>
> Come on housing crash so I can afford my own garage :-)
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:409FE117.73D0C0AD@sympatico.ca...
> > I just like to play the devil's advocate some days Bill, I hope it works
> > out great for you.
> >
> > Still, not knowing where the freaking bolts go sure doesn't instill
> > confidence in the statement 'I choose him because he has done this mod
> > before and is fully familiar with it.'
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike, the mechanic didn't put the thing together. The
rebuilder/machine
> > > shop did. They did the rebuild on the short block and put my
previously
> > > machined 4.0L head on it.
> > >
> > > There are two entities in this process. 1. the R&R guy, you can call
> him a
> > > mechanic. 2. The Machine Shop/Rebuilder.
> > >
> > > #2 is the one who bolted the thing together and I choose him because
he
> has
> > > done this mod before and is fully familiar with it. This guy has a
> history
> > > of jeeps including racing sand jeeps. He's the best I could find in
> this
> > > area for this application.
> > >
> > > And
> > >
> > > He warranties the work for a year.
> > >
> > > He confirmed that it would be no problem for #1 (mechanic) to change
the
> > > bolts so if he's wrong he'll have to fix it if it comes down to it.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:409FD597.39970CF5@sympatico.ca...
> > > > He already has a mis match on the head gasket Steve.
> > > >
> > > > He is putting a 4.0 head onto a 4.2 block. That makes it a
'twitchy'
> > > > installation to start.
> > > >
> > > > 'I' would not take a chance on blowing a new engine for something
that
> > > > dumb.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe that is just me, but.... If I forked out in the order of $2K
> plus
> > > > I most certainly would not take a chance on a head gasket that
'might
> or
> > > > might not' be compromised.
> > > >
> > > > I have assembled and have seen assembled a whole pile of engines
over
> > > > the years and most people, let alone 'mechanics' stop and think when
> > > > they find 2 head bolts that are nutted studs instead of bolts.
> > > >
> > > > It seem 'logical' that these 'strange' bolt like things should go
> > > > somewhere special eh?
> > > >
> > > > One is for the bracket, the other goes on the back drivers side
corner
> > > > for the ground strap to bolt onto.
> > > >
> > > > In all due fairness poor Bill's 'mechanic' is kinda on the brain
dead
> > > > side to just put it together wrong without checking wouldn't you
say?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Steve G wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've done it hundreds of times and there won't be a problem
> switching
> > > the
> > > > > bolts and just re-torquing those two. In all probability it's one
of
> the
> > > > > outside bolts which are the last to be torqued in the sequence
> anyways.
> > > > >
> > > > > In all fairness to the mechanic Mike, these guys have no way of
> knowing
> > > > > which bolt is supposed to have the stud on it and different
> > > installations
> > > > > sometimes have different positions for that bolt. May not be the
> case
> > > with
> > > > > all 4.0, although I doubt that they all come the same way in all
> > > > > applications. I know for a fact lots of Pontiac, Buick and Olds
> v-8's
> > > would
> > > > > have the head bolts with the stud on it in different locations
> depending
> > > on
> > > > > what model vehicle it was going in and the assembler would have no
> way
> > > of
> > > > > knowing.
> > > > > Steve G.
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:409FC445.928E9186@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I don't know where some of these 'mechanics' come from....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He put the 'wrong' bolt in the hole.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Man oh man, if it wasn't for bad you wouldn't have any luck at
all
> > > would
> > > > > > you?
> > > > > > ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I for one most certainly would not accept a rebuilt engine with
an
> > > > > > already 'blown' head gasket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Head gaskets only compress once.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just had my engine rebuilt. New cam, new crank 10/10, new
> bearings,
> > > new
> > > > > > > pistons and rings, flywheel balanced and all married up to my
> 4.0L
> > > head
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > the door.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now the R&R guy has noticed one of the head bolts is out of
> position
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > power steering bracket so he needs to switch them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is there any problem switching two head bolts which reside
side
> by
> > > side
> > > > > > > without going through the entire torquing sequence again?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That is, can these two bolts be taking out, switched, put back
> in
> > > and
> > > > > > > torqued down without any problems?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > R&R guy says no problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
>
>

Re: Switching Head bolts
 

finally man! congrats! now go break something else on it! heh-jeeping this
time though...

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:2g9tquFbc68U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Just had my engine rebuilt. New cam, new crank 10/10, new bearings, new
> pistons and rings, flywheel balanced and all married up to my 4.0L head
out
> the door.
>
> Now the R&R guy has noticed one of the head bolts is out of position for
the
> power steering bracket so he needs to switch them.
>
> Is there any problem switching two head bolts which reside side by side
> without going through the entire torquing sequence again?
>
> That is, can these two bolts be taking out, switched, put back in and
> torqued down without any problems?
>
>
> R&R guy says no problem.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
>

Re: Switching Head bolts
 

finally man! congrats! now go break something else on it! heh-jeeping this
time though...

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:2g9tquFbc68U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Just had my engine rebuilt. New cam, new crank 10/10, new bearings, new
> pistons and rings, flywheel balanced and all married up to my 4.0L head
out
> the door.
>
> Now the R&R guy has noticed one of the head bolts is out of position for
the
> power steering bracket so he needs to switch them.
>
> Is there any problem switching two head bolts which reside side by side
> without going through the entire torquing sequence again?
>
> That is, can these two bolts be taking out, switched, put back in and
> torqued down without any problems?
>
>
> R&R guy says no problem.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
>

Re: Switching Head bolts
 

finally man! congrats! now go break something else on it! heh-jeeping this
time though...

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:2g9tquFbc68U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Just had my engine rebuilt. New cam, new crank 10/10, new bearings, new
> pistons and rings, flywheel balanced and all married up to my 4.0L head
out
> the door.
>
> Now the R&R guy has noticed one of the head bolts is out of position for
the
> power steering bracket so he needs to switch them.
>
> Is there any problem switching two head bolts which reside side by side
> without going through the entire torquing sequence again?
>
> That is, can these two bolts be taking out, switched, put back in and
> torqued down without any problems?
>
>
> R&R guy says no problem.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
>