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Re: Switching Head bolts
That's not the issue. I'm sure the guy in the shop would make no bones
about switching the bolts. It's the "experts" that tell him he needs to remove the head and replace the gasket that he will, and should, take exception to. If I was him and someone came back and told me they wanted those bolts switched and the head gasket replaced in the course of it I'd say "yep, bring it on down" When I was finished I would collect $ for the gaskets and my time before I gave him his engine back. That's a total waste of time and money, but the customer is always right. If he's prepared to switch those bolts without the gasket and still warranties the engine, thast's his perogative. Steve "Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message news:20040511132416194-0800@enews.newsguy.com... > In <m0boc.447694$oR5.165620@pd7tw3no> Steve G wrote: > > > Nowhere in any machinist/engine > > rebuilder's manuals is it going to give the assembler a layout for > > stud headbolts for all vehicles that the engines could go into. > > The difference is, the OP hired a shop to have HIS engine rebuilt. It > is not too much to expect that it be returned to him with all of the > bolts in the correct place. The guy took this specific engine apart and > he should be able to put it back together the same way. In such a case, > one always wonders what ELSE wasn't put back together correctly. > > > Make him do something if it's the right thing to do and this is > > definately not it. > > Maybe you are right and there will be no problem, but in the unlikely > event that it DOES cause a head gasket failure say 2-3 years down the > road I can tell you exactly what is going to happen. He will have to > pay for the repair out of his own pocket because his engine rebuild will > be out of warranty. He is well within his rights to expect that the job > be done correctly from the start. If it were MY engine and I made this > mistake myself, I would probably just switch the bolts but if I had > hired a professional to do it I would damn well expect either a new head > gasket or a signed agreement stating that the shop is liable for head > gasket failure beyond the normal warranty period. > > > I've been a licensed Interprovincial Journeyman > > mechanic since 1972 and I will bet anything anyone here wants to cover > > that switching those bolts will not be responsible for any premature > > gasket failure. It always used to frost me when armchair mechanics > > would come in and tell me how to do things, how long it should take > > and how much I should charge. Why the hell weren't they in the > > business? > > I guess that makes you the only guy here qualified to render an opinion ( > yeah, right). Clue: some of the guys advising him to get the gasket > replaced either are currently or have been employed as professional > mechanics, or as shop owners. > > > All you skeptics should try this little test. Stand > > beside a 4.0 l block and lower the cyl head on being carefull to pinch > > a piece of loose skin, perhaps on your hammer. Now fully torque all > > bolts to spec. Next, remove any two bolts and try to pull your hammer > > out. See, no loss of tension. > > What the ----? > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email. > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/ |
Re: Switching Head bolts
That's not the issue. I'm sure the guy in the shop would make no bones
about switching the bolts. It's the "experts" that tell him he needs to remove the head and replace the gasket that he will, and should, take exception to. If I was him and someone came back and told me they wanted those bolts switched and the head gasket replaced in the course of it I'd say "yep, bring it on down" When I was finished I would collect $ for the gaskets and my time before I gave him his engine back. That's a total waste of time and money, but the customer is always right. If he's prepared to switch those bolts without the gasket and still warranties the engine, thast's his perogative. Steve "Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message news:20040511132416194-0800@enews.newsguy.com... > In <m0boc.447694$oR5.165620@pd7tw3no> Steve G wrote: > > > Nowhere in any machinist/engine > > rebuilder's manuals is it going to give the assembler a layout for > > stud headbolts for all vehicles that the engines could go into. > > The difference is, the OP hired a shop to have HIS engine rebuilt. It > is not too much to expect that it be returned to him with all of the > bolts in the correct place. The guy took this specific engine apart and > he should be able to put it back together the same way. In such a case, > one always wonders what ELSE wasn't put back together correctly. > > > Make him do something if it's the right thing to do and this is > > definately not it. > > Maybe you are right and there will be no problem, but in the unlikely > event that it DOES cause a head gasket failure say 2-3 years down the > road I can tell you exactly what is going to happen. He will have to > pay for the repair out of his own pocket because his engine rebuild will > be out of warranty. He is well within his rights to expect that the job > be done correctly from the start. If it were MY engine and I made this > mistake myself, I would probably just switch the bolts but if I had > hired a professional to do it I would damn well expect either a new head > gasket or a signed agreement stating that the shop is liable for head > gasket failure beyond the normal warranty period. > > > I've been a licensed Interprovincial Journeyman > > mechanic since 1972 and I will bet anything anyone here wants to cover > > that switching those bolts will not be responsible for any premature > > gasket failure. It always used to frost me when armchair mechanics > > would come in and tell me how to do things, how long it should take > > and how much I should charge. Why the hell weren't they in the > > business? > > I guess that makes you the only guy here qualified to render an opinion ( > yeah, right). Clue: some of the guys advising him to get the gasket > replaced either are currently or have been employed as professional > mechanics, or as shop owners. > > > All you skeptics should try this little test. Stand > > beside a 4.0 l block and lower the cyl head on being carefull to pinch > > a piece of loose skin, perhaps on your hammer. Now fully torque all > > bolts to spec. Next, remove any two bolts and try to pull your hammer > > out. See, no loss of tension. > > What the ----? > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email. > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/ |
Re: Switching Head bolts
That's not the issue. I'm sure the guy in the shop would make no bones
about switching the bolts. It's the "experts" that tell him he needs to remove the head and replace the gasket that he will, and should, take exception to. If I was him and someone came back and told me they wanted those bolts switched and the head gasket replaced in the course of it I'd say "yep, bring it on down" When I was finished I would collect $ for the gaskets and my time before I gave him his engine back. That's a total waste of time and money, but the customer is always right. If he's prepared to switch those bolts without the gasket and still warranties the engine, thast's his perogative. Steve "Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message news:20040511132416194-0800@enews.newsguy.com... > In <m0boc.447694$oR5.165620@pd7tw3no> Steve G wrote: > > > Nowhere in any machinist/engine > > rebuilder's manuals is it going to give the assembler a layout for > > stud headbolts for all vehicles that the engines could go into. > > The difference is, the OP hired a shop to have HIS engine rebuilt. It > is not too much to expect that it be returned to him with all of the > bolts in the correct place. The guy took this specific engine apart and > he should be able to put it back together the same way. In such a case, > one always wonders what ELSE wasn't put back together correctly. > > > Make him do something if it's the right thing to do and this is > > definately not it. > > Maybe you are right and there will be no problem, but in the unlikely > event that it DOES cause a head gasket failure say 2-3 years down the > road I can tell you exactly what is going to happen. He will have to > pay for the repair out of his own pocket because his engine rebuild will > be out of warranty. He is well within his rights to expect that the job > be done correctly from the start. If it were MY engine and I made this > mistake myself, I would probably just switch the bolts but if I had > hired a professional to do it I would damn well expect either a new head > gasket or a signed agreement stating that the shop is liable for head > gasket failure beyond the normal warranty period. > > > I've been a licensed Interprovincial Journeyman > > mechanic since 1972 and I will bet anything anyone here wants to cover > > that switching those bolts will not be responsible for any premature > > gasket failure. It always used to frost me when armchair mechanics > > would come in and tell me how to do things, how long it should take > > and how much I should charge. Why the hell weren't they in the > > business? > > I guess that makes you the only guy here qualified to render an opinion ( > yeah, right). Clue: some of the guys advising him to get the gasket > replaced either are currently or have been employed as professional > mechanics, or as shop owners. > > > All you skeptics should try this little test. Stand > > beside a 4.0 l block and lower the cyl head on being carefull to pinch > > a piece of loose skin, perhaps on your hammer. Now fully torque all > > bolts to spec. Next, remove any two bolts and try to pull your hammer > > out. See, no loss of tension. > > What the ----? > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email. > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/ |
Re: Switching Head bolts
Yes, I gave the R&R guy the jeep with the 4.2L block (head was removed).
The R&R guy took out the engine and the machine shop picked it up. Machine shop took the block, honed it out to 60 over, replaced with new cam, 10/10 crank, bearings, oil pump, timing gears, other internal parts I'm probably forgetting and attached my freshly machined 4.0L head to it. Buttoned it up and sent it back to the R&R place. Now it's being put together at the R&R place. Bill "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:40A14E05.2BE9364F@cox.net... > Hi Del, > I don't think the rebuilder got the engine whole, remember Bill had > an injected 4.0 head on a forty over 258" block, he got back a ten, ten. > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Del Rawlins wrote: > > > > The difference is, the OP hired a shop to have HIS engine rebuilt. It > > is not too much to expect that it be returned to him with all of the > > bolts in the correct place. The guy took this specific engine apart and > > he should be able to put it back together the same way. In such a case, > > one always wonders what ELSE wasn't put back together correctly. > > > > Maybe you are right and there will be no problem, but in the unlikely > > event that it DOES cause a head gasket failure say 2-3 years down the > > road I can tell you exactly what is going to happen. He will have to > > pay for the repair out of his own pocket because his engine rebuild will > > be out of warranty. He is well within his rights to expect that the job > > be done correctly from the start. If it were MY engine and I made this > > mistake myself, I would probably just switch the bolts but if I had > > hired a professional to do it I would damn well expect either a new head > > gasket or a signed agreement stating that the shop is liable for head > > gasket failure beyond the normal warranty period. > > > > I guess that makes you the only guy here qualified to render an opinion ( > > yeah, right). Clue: some of the guys advising him to get the gasket > > replaced either are currently or have been employed as professional > > mechanics, or as shop owners. > > > > > All you skeptics should try this little test. Stand > > > beside a 4.0 l block and lower the cyl head on being carefull to pinch > > > a piece of loose skin, perhaps on your hammer. Now fully torque all > > > bolts to spec. Next, remove any two bolts and try to pull your hammer > > > out. See, no loss of tension. > > > > What the ----? > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email. > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/ |
Re: Switching Head bolts
Yes, I gave the R&R guy the jeep with the 4.2L block (head was removed).
The R&R guy took out the engine and the machine shop picked it up. Machine shop took the block, honed it out to 60 over, replaced with new cam, 10/10 crank, bearings, oil pump, timing gears, other internal parts I'm probably forgetting and attached my freshly machined 4.0L head to it. Buttoned it up and sent it back to the R&R place. Now it's being put together at the R&R place. Bill "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:40A14E05.2BE9364F@cox.net... > Hi Del, > I don't think the rebuilder got the engine whole, remember Bill had > an injected 4.0 head on a forty over 258" block, he got back a ten, ten. > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Del Rawlins wrote: > > > > The difference is, the OP hired a shop to have HIS engine rebuilt. It > > is not too much to expect that it be returned to him with all of the > > bolts in the correct place. The guy took this specific engine apart and > > he should be able to put it back together the same way. In such a case, > > one always wonders what ELSE wasn't put back together correctly. > > > > Maybe you are right and there will be no problem, but in the unlikely > > event that it DOES cause a head gasket failure say 2-3 years down the > > road I can tell you exactly what is going to happen. He will have to > > pay for the repair out of his own pocket because his engine rebuild will > > be out of warranty. He is well within his rights to expect that the job > > be done correctly from the start. If it were MY engine and I made this > > mistake myself, I would probably just switch the bolts but if I had > > hired a professional to do it I would damn well expect either a new head > > gasket or a signed agreement stating that the shop is liable for head > > gasket failure beyond the normal warranty period. > > > > I guess that makes you the only guy here qualified to render an opinion ( > > yeah, right). Clue: some of the guys advising him to get the gasket > > replaced either are currently or have been employed as professional > > mechanics, or as shop owners. > > > > > All you skeptics should try this little test. Stand > > > beside a 4.0 l block and lower the cyl head on being carefull to pinch > > > a piece of loose skin, perhaps on your hammer. Now fully torque all > > > bolts to spec. Next, remove any two bolts and try to pull your hammer > > > out. See, no loss of tension. > > > > What the ----? > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email. > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/ |
Re: Switching Head bolts
Yes, I gave the R&R guy the jeep with the 4.2L block (head was removed).
The R&R guy took out the engine and the machine shop picked it up. Machine shop took the block, honed it out to 60 over, replaced with new cam, 10/10 crank, bearings, oil pump, timing gears, other internal parts I'm probably forgetting and attached my freshly machined 4.0L head to it. Buttoned it up and sent it back to the R&R place. Now it's being put together at the R&R place. Bill "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:40A14E05.2BE9364F@cox.net... > Hi Del, > I don't think the rebuilder got the engine whole, remember Bill had > an injected 4.0 head on a forty over 258" block, he got back a ten, ten. > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Del Rawlins wrote: > > > > The difference is, the OP hired a shop to have HIS engine rebuilt. It > > is not too much to expect that it be returned to him with all of the > > bolts in the correct place. The guy took this specific engine apart and > > he should be able to put it back together the same way. In such a case, > > one always wonders what ELSE wasn't put back together correctly. > > > > Maybe you are right and there will be no problem, but in the unlikely > > event that it DOES cause a head gasket failure say 2-3 years down the > > road I can tell you exactly what is going to happen. He will have to > > pay for the repair out of his own pocket because his engine rebuild will > > be out of warranty. He is well within his rights to expect that the job > > be done correctly from the start. If it were MY engine and I made this > > mistake myself, I would probably just switch the bolts but if I had > > hired a professional to do it I would damn well expect either a new head > > gasket or a signed agreement stating that the shop is liable for head > > gasket failure beyond the normal warranty period. > > > > I guess that makes you the only guy here qualified to render an opinion ( > > yeah, right). Clue: some of the guys advising him to get the gasket > > replaced either are currently or have been employed as professional > > mechanics, or as shop owners. > > > > > All you skeptics should try this little test. Stand > > > beside a 4.0 l block and lower the cyl head on being carefull to pinch > > > a piece of loose skin, perhaps on your hammer. Now fully torque all > > > bolts to spec. Next, remove any two bolts and try to pull your hammer > > > out. See, no loss of tension. > > > > What the ----? > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email. > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/ |
Re: Switching Head bolts
Yes, I gave the R&R guy the jeep with the 4.2L block (head was removed).
The R&R guy took out the engine and the machine shop picked it up. Machine shop took the block, honed it out to 60 over, replaced with new cam, 10/10 crank, bearings, oil pump, timing gears, other internal parts I'm probably forgetting and attached my freshly machined 4.0L head to it. Buttoned it up and sent it back to the R&R place. Now it's being put together at the R&R place. Bill "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:40A14E05.2BE9364F@cox.net... > Hi Del, > I don't think the rebuilder got the engine whole, remember Bill had > an injected 4.0 head on a forty over 258" block, he got back a ten, ten. > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Del Rawlins wrote: > > > > The difference is, the OP hired a shop to have HIS engine rebuilt. It > > is not too much to expect that it be returned to him with all of the > > bolts in the correct place. The guy took this specific engine apart and > > he should be able to put it back together the same way. In such a case, > > one always wonders what ELSE wasn't put back together correctly. > > > > Maybe you are right and there will be no problem, but in the unlikely > > event that it DOES cause a head gasket failure say 2-3 years down the > > road I can tell you exactly what is going to happen. He will have to > > pay for the repair out of his own pocket because his engine rebuild will > > be out of warranty. He is well within his rights to expect that the job > > be done correctly from the start. If it were MY engine and I made this > > mistake myself, I would probably just switch the bolts but if I had > > hired a professional to do it I would damn well expect either a new head > > gasket or a signed agreement stating that the shop is liable for head > > gasket failure beyond the normal warranty period. > > > > I guess that makes you the only guy here qualified to render an opinion ( > > yeah, right). Clue: some of the guys advising him to get the gasket > > replaced either are currently or have been employed as professional > > mechanics, or as shop owners. > > > > > All you skeptics should try this little test. Stand > > > beside a 4.0 l block and lower the cyl head on being carefull to pinch > > > a piece of loose skin, perhaps on your hammer. Now fully torque all > > > bolts to spec. Next, remove any two bolts and try to pull your hammer > > > out. See, no loss of tension. > > > > What the ----? > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email. > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/ |
Re: Switching Head bolts
The best part of this you're not trying to get it done under Mr.
Landlord's nose. Now you can go back to school or whatever's more important. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ William Oliveri wrote: > > Yes, I gave the R&R guy the jeep with the 4.2L block (head was removed). > The R&R guy took out the engine and the machine shop picked it up. > Machine shop took the block, honed it out to 60 over, replaced with new cam, > 10/10 crank, bearings, oil pump, timing gears, other internal parts I'm > probably forgetting and attached my freshly machined 4.0L head to it. > Buttoned it up and sent it back to the R&R place. > > Now it's being put together at the R&R place. > > Bill |
Re: Switching Head bolts
The best part of this you're not trying to get it done under Mr.
Landlord's nose. Now you can go back to school or whatever's more important. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ William Oliveri wrote: > > Yes, I gave the R&R guy the jeep with the 4.2L block (head was removed). > The R&R guy took out the engine and the machine shop picked it up. > Machine shop took the block, honed it out to 60 over, replaced with new cam, > 10/10 crank, bearings, oil pump, timing gears, other internal parts I'm > probably forgetting and attached my freshly machined 4.0L head to it. > Buttoned it up and sent it back to the R&R place. > > Now it's being put together at the R&R place. > > Bill |
Re: Switching Head bolts
The best part of this you're not trying to get it done under Mr.
Landlord's nose. Now you can go back to school or whatever's more important. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ William Oliveri wrote: > > Yes, I gave the R&R guy the jeep with the 4.2L block (head was removed). > The R&R guy took out the engine and the machine shop picked it up. > Machine shop took the block, honed it out to 60 over, replaced with new cam, > 10/10 crank, bearings, oil pump, timing gears, other internal parts I'm > probably forgetting and attached my freshly machined 4.0L head to it. > Buttoned it up and sent it back to the R&R place. > > Now it's being put together at the R&R place. > > Bill |
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