Scott in Baltimore

Heat the work, not the solder. The flux cleans the oxidation off
the copper and allows the solder to alloy to the copper, becoming
part of the connection. I always use shrink wrap to insulate my
auto solder connections. The stuff at RS is crap. Use the rubber
type of shrink tubing. Put the tubing on before you solder.

Scott in Baltimore

Heat the work, not the solder. The flux cleans the oxidation off
the copper and allows the solder to alloy to the copper, becoming
part of the connection. I always use shrink wrap to insulate my
auto solder connections. The stuff at RS is crap. Use the rubber
type of shrink tubing. Put the tubing on before you solder.

Scott in Baltimore

Heat the work, not the solder. The flux cleans the oxidation off
the copper and allows the solder to alloy to the copper, becoming
part of the connection. I always use shrink wrap to insulate my
auto solder connections. The stuff at RS is crap. Use the rubber
type of shrink tubing. Put the tubing on before you solder.

Lon

Billy Ray proclaimed:

> Sounds like a good father-son project.
>
> I would prefer a solder job myself. Be sure to use wire of at least the
> same gauge if not larger and use the proper wattage tool and appropriate
> solder.

The bigger the iron you can get, the better. You want to get in, heat
the joint quickly with minimal heat travel up the wire in order to avoid
damage, then get out.

The wire needs to be absolutely clean. The best stuff is acid pickle
but then you have to make absolutely certain you remove all of the acid
which is not at all easy on stranded wire.

Rubbing to a shiny copper with fine sandpaper, then retwist the wires
works. First make a good mechanical connection, never use the solder
for that.

The iron should be hot with a bit of fresh clean high flux solder [ersin
multicore is my favorite] dabbed just before you put it on the wire.
Add the solder to that dab of fresh solder which should be put right
against the soldering point. Add new solder right there and let it flow
into the wire, coating it silver. Remove the heat and be darned careful
not to move the wires one bit as you do this, or for about half a minute
after. If the shiny silver turns sorta sandy looking, too bad, you
moved it. Add a bit of new flux and reheat. As you apply heat, you
want the shiny solder on the iron to be in good contact with the wire
and any new solder should be applied close to the iron's shiny spot, but
actually on the wire, not to the iron where it just builds up and
drops on your bare toe.

IF you can find good rosin flux, particularly the liquid variety,
dipping the wire in that really really helps make a good joint.

I use heavy duty shrink wrap, but you need to be careful to move it well
away from the joint or it may shrink slightly. I then use the
overlapping shrink style tape, but I dunno where you can get that
retail. It forms a continuous covering when hit slightly with a heat
gun, acts nothing like typical electrical tape.





>
> Shrink wrap all the connections you make, protect them in split tubing if
> possible and zip-tie them out of harms way.
>
> The infamous Carter BBD carburetor can be made to run well with just a
> little work and a couple bucks for a drill bit. Contact Mike Romaine or
> Bill ------ for links to the appropriate information
>

Lon

Billy Ray proclaimed:

> Sounds like a good father-son project.
>
> I would prefer a solder job myself. Be sure to use wire of at least the
> same gauge if not larger and use the proper wattage tool and appropriate
> solder.

The bigger the iron you can get, the better. You want to get in, heat
the joint quickly with minimal heat travel up the wire in order to avoid
damage, then get out.

The wire needs to be absolutely clean. The best stuff is acid pickle
but then you have to make absolutely certain you remove all of the acid
which is not at all easy on stranded wire.

Rubbing to a shiny copper with fine sandpaper, then retwist the wires
works. First make a good mechanical connection, never use the solder
for that.

The iron should be hot with a bit of fresh clean high flux solder [ersin
multicore is my favorite] dabbed just before you put it on the wire.
Add the solder to that dab of fresh solder which should be put right
against the soldering point. Add new solder right there and let it flow
into the wire, coating it silver. Remove the heat and be darned careful
not to move the wires one bit as you do this, or for about half a minute
after. If the shiny silver turns sorta sandy looking, too bad, you
moved it. Add a bit of new flux and reheat. As you apply heat, you
want the shiny solder on the iron to be in good contact with the wire
and any new solder should be applied close to the iron's shiny spot, but
actually on the wire, not to the iron where it just builds up and
drops on your bare toe.

IF you can find good rosin flux, particularly the liquid variety,
dipping the wire in that really really helps make a good joint.

I use heavy duty shrink wrap, but you need to be careful to move it well
away from the joint or it may shrink slightly. I then use the
overlapping shrink style tape, but I dunno where you can get that
retail. It forms a continuous covering when hit slightly with a heat
gun, acts nothing like typical electrical tape.





>
> Shrink wrap all the connections you make, protect them in split tubing if
> possible and zip-tie them out of harms way.
>
> The infamous Carter BBD carburetor can be made to run well with just a
> little work and a couple bucks for a drill bit. Contact Mike Romaine or
> Bill ------ for links to the appropriate information
>

Lon

Billy Ray proclaimed:

> Sounds like a good father-son project.
>
> I would prefer a solder job myself. Be sure to use wire of at least the
> same gauge if not larger and use the proper wattage tool and appropriate
> solder.

The bigger the iron you can get, the better. You want to get in, heat
the joint quickly with minimal heat travel up the wire in order to avoid
damage, then get out.

The wire needs to be absolutely clean. The best stuff is acid pickle
but then you have to make absolutely certain you remove all of the acid
which is not at all easy on stranded wire.

Rubbing to a shiny copper with fine sandpaper, then retwist the wires
works. First make a good mechanical connection, never use the solder
for that.

The iron should be hot with a bit of fresh clean high flux solder [ersin
multicore is my favorite] dabbed just before you put it on the wire.
Add the solder to that dab of fresh solder which should be put right
against the soldering point. Add new solder right there and let it flow
into the wire, coating it silver. Remove the heat and be darned careful
not to move the wires one bit as you do this, or for about half a minute
after. If the shiny silver turns sorta sandy looking, too bad, you
moved it. Add a bit of new flux and reheat. As you apply heat, you
want the shiny solder on the iron to be in good contact with the wire
and any new solder should be applied close to the iron's shiny spot, but
actually on the wire, not to the iron where it just builds up and
drops on your bare toe.

IF you can find good rosin flux, particularly the liquid variety,
dipping the wire in that really really helps make a good joint.

I use heavy duty shrink wrap, but you need to be careful to move it well
away from the joint or it may shrink slightly. I then use the
overlapping shrink style tape, but I dunno where you can get that
retail. It forms a continuous covering when hit slightly with a heat
gun, acts nothing like typical electrical tape.





>
> Shrink wrap all the connections you make, protect them in split tubing if
> possible and zip-tie them out of harms way.
>
> The infamous Carter BBD carburetor can be made to run well with just a
> little work and a couple bucks for a drill bit. Contact Mike Romaine or
> Bill ------ for links to the appropriate information
>

Lee Ayrton

Mid to late 1970s Jeep CJs harnesses were loomed up and staked with duct
tape then wrapped in a thin heat-shrinking tape. The loose ends were
staked down with electrical tape.


popeyeball wrote:
> Howard,
> I am so glad you brought up the subject of using 'electrical wire' used
> in the earlier posts. Did you use that shiny stuff, probably the black
> shiny stuff? In my world that's not electrical wire. To most
> electrical wire serves so that conductors do not make contact with
> other wires or ground. The problem with the 'plastic' electrical wire
> is that it allows moisture to collect (if even as a vapor. This in
> itself can lead to shorts and grounds. It is also not the best wire
> for wraping wires imho.
> Look at cars from the early 90's or earlier, you know, before plastic
> tubing was used to protect groups of wire. Back than a 'cloth tape was
> used to wrap wires. It's even used today at the ends of wire runs on
> autos where the connectors plug in. The greatest quality of the cloth
> electrical tape is it allows moiture to get it (ya can't stop it) but
> it also allows it to escape. The worst problems with cloth wire is the
> end of the overlapping wraps will not stick at the bitter end.
> So Howard, if you do leave the electrical wire on - get the cloth wire
> and secure each end with the plastic wire.
> As for solder or crimping? It's your call because your going to have
> to re-fix it if it isn't done right. Each will work, it's how it's
> done that's important. Myself I'd choose solder because I have
> soldered thousands of wires in the past.
> I sure wish I had a nice clean work bench like that one link with
> instructions on how to solder. It was a pretty informative link but
> I'd add a few more things (20/20 blindsight).
> I don't believe the gentleman mentioned why you needed to have a sponge
> as part of your tools.
> A damp sponge (I would reccomend using damp newspaper unless you have a
> sponge handy to burn up) is used to clean off the 'tinned' side of the
> welding wand. Go with the wand.
> If you choose to solder find a comfortable spot, like your work bench
> and practice making a couple of solders. He mentioned a 'cold' solder.
> He didn't mention that a cold solder will still hold the wires
> together as well as a good 'hot' solder. The differance is the cold
> solder is going crack somerwere down the road. The crack will cause
> intermittent operation or a complete open.
> When practicing (get the larger diamiter solder) press the tinned side
> of the wand on one side of the pair of wires. Do not use the tip of
> the iron as shown in that link but the flat, tinned side of the iron.
> Than press the opposite side of the wire with the solder. Only a small
> amount of pressure is needed - actually gentle would be a good word
> here. Only a dab of solder will be needed to do the job - not a glob.
> An expert, clean solder would show the viens of the wire strands under
> the solder.
> Someone mentioned using larger wire - I would stay away from this
> because it will change current carrying capacity of the circut (ohms).
> Be careful not to match up wire by the thickness of the outer wire but
> by the size of the inner-conductors. You'd think they'd be standard
> but that's not the case.
> After each wire is soldered I would wipe the iron (damp newspaper) than
> re-tin the iron. Shake or flick the end of the iron to remove the
> excess solder and go to the next wire. As for using your son or
> another person, it can be very dangerous using this very hot tool that
> is very unfogivving. Have a plan and make sure each of you know what
> you are going to do and not do. Arranging a suitable place to lye the
> iron is very necessary for both safety and so that further damage is
> not done to your Jeep.
> I agree with the earlier poster about thinking that the existing wires
> are ok. Take the worst witre, strip back a nip of insulation with your
> pocket knife and you'll be a very lucky man if you see shiny copper -
> it is highly unlucky.
> Good Luck,
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> phelan@west-point.org wrote:
>
>>Wow, what a lot of great comments. What I've gotten out of it is that
>>if I'm going to solder, do it right -- there's more to it than having
>>my son hold the two wires together while I drip some melted solder onto
>>them. If I'm going to use crimp connectors, use good ones with a
>>proper crimping tool.
>>I hadn't thought of going to a boneyard and taking out just the part of
>>the harness that I need. The thought of replacing the whole thing kind
>>of turned me off of the used market because I figured I would spend as
>>much time pulling it out as I would installing it. And I'd probably
>>damage it in the process. But just taking what I need will work since
>>that part is easily accessible anyway.
>>This whole thing started when a mechanic told me that I had to replace
>>the whole thing and he found a used one in California for $450 that he
>>could probably install. Repairing the old one was out of the question
>>because it was too damaged. I took his word for it but wasn't too
>>pleased about the cost of installing a new harness. So he suggested
>>converting to a Fuel Injection system. So I ordered a Howell kit and
>>delivered it to him. Two weeks later he still hadn't even pulled my
>>jeep out of his storage (yes, this was going on six months). I told
>>him I just wanted it back and that I would install the FI kit myself.
>>When I started to dig into it, I discovered that the harness was not so
>>badly fried. In fact the strands themselves were still intact.
>>Hence, this discussion.
>>But hey, since I have the $1100 dollar FI kit, what's the vote? Should
>>I put it in or save the money? I did a temporary taping job on the
>>wires just to see how she would run, and all seems OK so far. So now
>>I'm ready to go for a more permanent solution. Should I repair the old
>>harness in a manner suggested above and try to return the kit, or suck
>>down the cost of the kit and install it?
>>This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
>>be my son's short commute school car.
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>Howard
>
>

Lee Ayrton

Mid to late 1970s Jeep CJs harnesses were loomed up and staked with duct
tape then wrapped in a thin heat-shrinking tape. The loose ends were
staked down with electrical tape.


popeyeball wrote:
> Howard,
> I am so glad you brought up the subject of using 'electrical wire' used
> in the earlier posts. Did you use that shiny stuff, probably the black
> shiny stuff? In my world that's not electrical wire. To most
> electrical wire serves so that conductors do not make contact with
> other wires or ground. The problem with the 'plastic' electrical wire
> is that it allows moisture to collect (if even as a vapor. This in
> itself can lead to shorts and grounds. It is also not the best wire
> for wraping wires imho.
> Look at cars from the early 90's or earlier, you know, before plastic
> tubing was used to protect groups of wire. Back than a 'cloth tape was
> used to wrap wires. It's even used today at the ends of wire runs on
> autos where the connectors plug in. The greatest quality of the cloth
> electrical tape is it allows moiture to get it (ya can't stop it) but
> it also allows it to escape. The worst problems with cloth wire is the
> end of the overlapping wraps will not stick at the bitter end.
> So Howard, if you do leave the electrical wire on - get the cloth wire
> and secure each end with the plastic wire.
> As for solder or crimping? It's your call because your going to have
> to re-fix it if it isn't done right. Each will work, it's how it's
> done that's important. Myself I'd choose solder because I have
> soldered thousands of wires in the past.
> I sure wish I had a nice clean work bench like that one link with
> instructions on how to solder. It was a pretty informative link but
> I'd add a few more things (20/20 blindsight).
> I don't believe the gentleman mentioned why you needed to have a sponge
> as part of your tools.
> A damp sponge (I would reccomend using damp newspaper unless you have a
> sponge handy to burn up) is used to clean off the 'tinned' side of the
> welding wand. Go with the wand.
> If you choose to solder find a comfortable spot, like your work bench
> and practice making a couple of solders. He mentioned a 'cold' solder.
> He didn't mention that a cold solder will still hold the wires
> together as well as a good 'hot' solder. The differance is the cold
> solder is going crack somerwere down the road. The crack will cause
> intermittent operation or a complete open.
> When practicing (get the larger diamiter solder) press the tinned side
> of the wand on one side of the pair of wires. Do not use the tip of
> the iron as shown in that link but the flat, tinned side of the iron.
> Than press the opposite side of the wire with the solder. Only a small
> amount of pressure is needed - actually gentle would be a good word
> here. Only a dab of solder will be needed to do the job - not a glob.
> An expert, clean solder would show the viens of the wire strands under
> the solder.
> Someone mentioned using larger wire - I would stay away from this
> because it will change current carrying capacity of the circut (ohms).
> Be careful not to match up wire by the thickness of the outer wire but
> by the size of the inner-conductors. You'd think they'd be standard
> but that's not the case.
> After each wire is soldered I would wipe the iron (damp newspaper) than
> re-tin the iron. Shake or flick the end of the iron to remove the
> excess solder and go to the next wire. As for using your son or
> another person, it can be very dangerous using this very hot tool that
> is very unfogivving. Have a plan and make sure each of you know what
> you are going to do and not do. Arranging a suitable place to lye the
> iron is very necessary for both safety and so that further damage is
> not done to your Jeep.
> I agree with the earlier poster about thinking that the existing wires
> are ok. Take the worst witre, strip back a nip of insulation with your
> pocket knife and you'll be a very lucky man if you see shiny copper -
> it is highly unlucky.
> Good Luck,
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> phelan@west-point.org wrote:
>
>>Wow, what a lot of great comments. What I've gotten out of it is that
>>if I'm going to solder, do it right -- there's more to it than having
>>my son hold the two wires together while I drip some melted solder onto
>>them. If I'm going to use crimp connectors, use good ones with a
>>proper crimping tool.
>>I hadn't thought of going to a boneyard and taking out just the part of
>>the harness that I need. The thought of replacing the whole thing kind
>>of turned me off of the used market because I figured I would spend as
>>much time pulling it out as I would installing it. And I'd probably
>>damage it in the process. But just taking what I need will work since
>>that part is easily accessible anyway.
>>This whole thing started when a mechanic told me that I had to replace
>>the whole thing and he found a used one in California for $450 that he
>>could probably install. Repairing the old one was out of the question
>>because it was too damaged. I took his word for it but wasn't too
>>pleased about the cost of installing a new harness. So he suggested
>>converting to a Fuel Injection system. So I ordered a Howell kit and
>>delivered it to him. Two weeks later he still hadn't even pulled my
>>jeep out of his storage (yes, this was going on six months). I told
>>him I just wanted it back and that I would install the FI kit myself.
>>When I started to dig into it, I discovered that the harness was not so
>>badly fried. In fact the strands themselves were still intact.
>>Hence, this discussion.
>>But hey, since I have the $1100 dollar FI kit, what's the vote? Should
>>I put it in or save the money? I did a temporary taping job on the
>>wires just to see how she would run, and all seems OK so far. So now
>>I'm ready to go for a more permanent solution. Should I repair the old
>>harness in a manner suggested above and try to return the kit, or suck
>>down the cost of the kit and install it?
>>This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
>>be my son's short commute school car.
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>Howard
>
>

Lee Ayrton

Mid to late 1970s Jeep CJs harnesses were loomed up and staked with duct
tape then wrapped in a thin heat-shrinking tape. The loose ends were
staked down with electrical tape.


popeyeball wrote:
> Howard,
> I am so glad you brought up the subject of using 'electrical wire' used
> in the earlier posts. Did you use that shiny stuff, probably the black
> shiny stuff? In my world that's not electrical wire. To most
> electrical wire serves so that conductors do not make contact with
> other wires or ground. The problem with the 'plastic' electrical wire
> is that it allows moisture to collect (if even as a vapor. This in
> itself can lead to shorts and grounds. It is also not the best wire
> for wraping wires imho.
> Look at cars from the early 90's or earlier, you know, before plastic
> tubing was used to protect groups of wire. Back than a 'cloth tape was
> used to wrap wires. It's even used today at the ends of wire runs on
> autos where the connectors plug in. The greatest quality of the cloth
> electrical tape is it allows moiture to get it (ya can't stop it) but
> it also allows it to escape. The worst problems with cloth wire is the
> end of the overlapping wraps will not stick at the bitter end.
> So Howard, if you do leave the electrical wire on - get the cloth wire
> and secure each end with the plastic wire.
> As for solder or crimping? It's your call because your going to have
> to re-fix it if it isn't done right. Each will work, it's how it's
> done that's important. Myself I'd choose solder because I have
> soldered thousands of wires in the past.
> I sure wish I had a nice clean work bench like that one link with
> instructions on how to solder. It was a pretty informative link but
> I'd add a few more things (20/20 blindsight).
> I don't believe the gentleman mentioned why you needed to have a sponge
> as part of your tools.
> A damp sponge (I would reccomend using damp newspaper unless you have a
> sponge handy to burn up) is used to clean off the 'tinned' side of the
> welding wand. Go with the wand.
> If you choose to solder find a comfortable spot, like your work bench
> and practice making a couple of solders. He mentioned a 'cold' solder.
> He didn't mention that a cold solder will still hold the wires
> together as well as a good 'hot' solder. The differance is the cold
> solder is going crack somerwere down the road. The crack will cause
> intermittent operation or a complete open.
> When practicing (get the larger diamiter solder) press the tinned side
> of the wand on one side of the pair of wires. Do not use the tip of
> the iron as shown in that link but the flat, tinned side of the iron.
> Than press the opposite side of the wire with the solder. Only a small
> amount of pressure is needed - actually gentle would be a good word
> here. Only a dab of solder will be needed to do the job - not a glob.
> An expert, clean solder would show the viens of the wire strands under
> the solder.
> Someone mentioned using larger wire - I would stay away from this
> because it will change current carrying capacity of the circut (ohms).
> Be careful not to match up wire by the thickness of the outer wire but
> by the size of the inner-conductors. You'd think they'd be standard
> but that's not the case.
> After each wire is soldered I would wipe the iron (damp newspaper) than
> re-tin the iron. Shake or flick the end of the iron to remove the
> excess solder and go to the next wire. As for using your son or
> another person, it can be very dangerous using this very hot tool that
> is very unfogivving. Have a plan and make sure each of you know what
> you are going to do and not do. Arranging a suitable place to lye the
> iron is very necessary for both safety and so that further damage is
> not done to your Jeep.
> I agree with the earlier poster about thinking that the existing wires
> are ok. Take the worst witre, strip back a nip of insulation with your
> pocket knife and you'll be a very lucky man if you see shiny copper -
> it is highly unlucky.
> Good Luck,
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> phelan@west-point.org wrote:
>
>>Wow, what a lot of great comments. What I've gotten out of it is that
>>if I'm going to solder, do it right -- there's more to it than having
>>my son hold the two wires together while I drip some melted solder onto
>>them. If I'm going to use crimp connectors, use good ones with a
>>proper crimping tool.
>>I hadn't thought of going to a boneyard and taking out just the part of
>>the harness that I need. The thought of replacing the whole thing kind
>>of turned me off of the used market because I figured I would spend as
>>much time pulling it out as I would installing it. And I'd probably
>>damage it in the process. But just taking what I need will work since
>>that part is easily accessible anyway.
>>This whole thing started when a mechanic told me that I had to replace
>>the whole thing and he found a used one in California for $450 that he
>>could probably install. Repairing the old one was out of the question
>>because it was too damaged. I took his word for it but wasn't too
>>pleased about the cost of installing a new harness. So he suggested
>>converting to a Fuel Injection system. So I ordered a Howell kit and
>>delivered it to him. Two weeks later he still hadn't even pulled my
>>jeep out of his storage (yes, this was going on six months). I told
>>him I just wanted it back and that I would install the FI kit myself.
>>When I started to dig into it, I discovered that the harness was not so
>>badly fried. In fact the strands themselves were still intact.
>>Hence, this discussion.
>>But hey, since I have the $1100 dollar FI kit, what's the vote? Should
>>I put it in or save the money? I did a temporary taping job on the
>>wires just to see how she would run, and all seems OK so far. So now
>>I'm ready to go for a more permanent solution. Should I repair the old
>>harness in a manner suggested above and try to return the kit, or suck
>>down the cost of the kit and install it?
>>This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
>>be my son's short commute school car.
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>Howard
>
>