Rich

"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B7WdnawVYefSVvLeRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> Being an electronics design engineer with special background in
> manufacturing and service engineering, I'd have to strongly disagree with
> you. For a big consulting fee, I could even prove it with statistics. Or
> ask why there are no solder joints in a modern car.
>
> The typical untrained person attempting to solder is going to do more
> damage than good. In my experience troubleshooting complex military and
> mainframes after some doofus decided to solder, there aren't that many
> NASA grade trained solder technicians that can do it right every time
> compared to using a good foolproof latching die based crimp tool. Worse
> are the techs who thought it was a good idea to solder the crimped
> connector "just for safety".
>
> A good gas tight crimp is actually superior to solder anyway. That is why
> no modern computer has used solder connections in the wiring looms for
> decades. Before crimp, wire wrap was more reliable once the issues of
> making sure it is gas tight and teflon wire cold flow were identified.
>
> A modern protective gel filled crimp connector properly applied and
> crimped beats any solder joint for mechanical and electrical integrity.
>
>
>
> Rich proclaimed:
>
>> Been an electronics technician for 20 years....
>> Don't use crimp connectors or reinsulate with electrical tape. Both are
>> bad practices.
>> Do it right, and solder in new wires. I'd recommend you go to the
>> boneyard as someone else said and find that part of the wire loom, cut
>> out the part you need keeping everything intact from the bad area to the
>> terminus of each wire as practically as possible and replace the whole
>> shooting match. Stagger the solder connections, use rosin core not acid
>> core solder, and be sure to use flux on the wires.
>> First and foremost if you don't have experience at soldering, PRACTICE on
>> some other wires to get the technique down before going in. Soldering is
>> very easy with a bit of practice and guidance.
>> Lastly use heatshrink on each connection and make sure it forms a tight
>> seal.
>>
>> "Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
>> news:3t7ph8Fr7vgdU1@individual.net...
>>
>>>Stuff like this can be easily, quickly, and permanently fixed with
>>>crimps. They make a type that has an heat-shrink insulator, so squeeze
>>>some dielectric grease in, crimp the wires, heat shrink the insulator,
>>>and you are done. The dielectric will prevent any moisture from getting
>>>in and corroding. Tie the whole mess away from the exhaust with some Adel
>>>clamps to prevent having to do it again.
>>>It's only a car, why waste time overdoing it?
>>>--
>>>Stupendous Man,
>>>Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>>>
>>
>>

Rich

"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B7WdnawVYefSVvLeRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> Being an electronics design engineer with special background in
> manufacturing and service engineering, I'd have to strongly disagree with
> you. For a big consulting fee, I could even prove it with statistics. Or
> ask why there are no solder joints in a modern car.
>
> The typical untrained person attempting to solder is going to do more
> damage than good. In my experience troubleshooting complex military and
> mainframes after some doofus decided to solder, there aren't that many
> NASA grade trained solder technicians that can do it right every time
> compared to using a good foolproof latching die based crimp tool. Worse
> are the techs who thought it was a good idea to solder the crimped
> connector "just for safety".
>
> A good gas tight crimp is actually superior to solder anyway. That is why
> no modern computer has used solder connections in the wiring looms for
> decades. Before crimp, wire wrap was more reliable once the issues of
> making sure it is gas tight and teflon wire cold flow were identified.
>
> A modern protective gel filled crimp connector properly applied and
> crimped beats any solder joint for mechanical and electrical integrity.
>
>
>
> Rich proclaimed:
>
>> Been an electronics technician for 20 years....
>> Don't use crimp connectors or reinsulate with electrical tape. Both are
>> bad practices.
>> Do it right, and solder in new wires. I'd recommend you go to the
>> boneyard as someone else said and find that part of the wire loom, cut
>> out the part you need keeping everything intact from the bad area to the
>> terminus of each wire as practically as possible and replace the whole
>> shooting match. Stagger the solder connections, use rosin core not acid
>> core solder, and be sure to use flux on the wires.
>> First and foremost if you don't have experience at soldering, PRACTICE on
>> some other wires to get the technique down before going in. Soldering is
>> very easy with a bit of practice and guidance.
>> Lastly use heatshrink on each connection and make sure it forms a tight
>> seal.
>>
>> "Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
>> news:3t7ph8Fr7vgdU1@individual.net...
>>
>>>Stuff like this can be easily, quickly, and permanently fixed with
>>>crimps. They make a type that has an heat-shrink insulator, so squeeze
>>>some dielectric grease in, crimp the wires, heat shrink the insulator,
>>>and you are done. The dielectric will prevent any moisture from getting
>>>in and corroding. Tie the whole mess away from the exhaust with some Adel
>>>clamps to prevent having to do it again.
>>>It's only a car, why waste time overdoing it?
>>>--
>>>Stupendous Man,
>>>Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>>>
>>
>>

Rich

"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B7WdnawVYefSVvLeRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> Being an electronics design engineer with special background in
> manufacturing and service engineering, I'd have to strongly disagree with
> you. For a big consulting fee, I could even prove it with statistics. Or
> ask why there are no solder joints in a modern car.
>
> The typical untrained person attempting to solder is going to do more
> damage than good. In my experience troubleshooting complex military and
> mainframes after some doofus decided to solder, there aren't that many
> NASA grade trained solder technicians that can do it right every time
> compared to using a good foolproof latching die based crimp tool. Worse
> are the techs who thought it was a good idea to solder the crimped
> connector "just for safety".
>
> A good gas tight crimp is actually superior to solder anyway. That is why
> no modern computer has used solder connections in the wiring looms for
> decades. Before crimp, wire wrap was more reliable once the issues of
> making sure it is gas tight and teflon wire cold flow were identified.
>
> A modern protective gel filled crimp connector properly applied and
> crimped beats any solder joint for mechanical and electrical integrity.
>
>
>
> Rich proclaimed:
>
>> Been an electronics technician for 20 years....
>> Don't use crimp connectors or reinsulate with electrical tape. Both are
>> bad practices.
>> Do it right, and solder in new wires. I'd recommend you go to the
>> boneyard as someone else said and find that part of the wire loom, cut
>> out the part you need keeping everything intact from the bad area to the
>> terminus of each wire as practically as possible and replace the whole
>> shooting match. Stagger the solder connections, use rosin core not acid
>> core solder, and be sure to use flux on the wires.
>> First and foremost if you don't have experience at soldering, PRACTICE on
>> some other wires to get the technique down before going in. Soldering is
>> very easy with a bit of practice and guidance.
>> Lastly use heatshrink on each connection and make sure it forms a tight
>> seal.
>>
>> "Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
>> news:3t7ph8Fr7vgdU1@individual.net...
>>
>>>Stuff like this can be easily, quickly, and permanently fixed with
>>>crimps. They make a type that has an heat-shrink insulator, so squeeze
>>>some dielectric grease in, crimp the wires, heat shrink the insulator,
>>>and you are done. The dielectric will prevent any moisture from getting
>>>in and corroding. Tie the whole mess away from the exhaust with some Adel
>>>clamps to prevent having to do it again.
>>>It's only a car, why waste time overdoing it?
>>>--
>>>Stupendous Man,
>>>Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>>>
>>
>>

Rich

Lon,
There is validity to what you say, but our original poster is repairing
wiring on an old Wrangler not an F-117. The crimp-on connectors he's
probably going to be buying are going to come from somewhere like Car-Quest
or Pep-Boys. Cheap junk on a good day. While I by no means profess to be an
engineer I do have real world experience with electronics in all types of
environments including salt water. I still assert that he'd do better
soldering and properly heat shrinking. If he were fixing a B2 Bomber or a
SPY-1 Radar I'd say you might be right.
Put it in perspective.


"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B7WdnawVYefSVvLeRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> Being an electronics design engineer with special background in
> manufacturing and service engineering, I'd have to strongly disagree with
> you. For a big consulting fee, I could even prove it with statistics. Or
> ask why there are no solder joints in a modern car.
>
> The typical untrained person attempting to solder is going to do more
> damage than good. In my experience troubleshooting complex military and
> mainframes after some doofus decided to solder, there aren't that many
> NASA grade trained solder technicians that can do it right every time
> compared to using a good foolproof latching die based crimp tool. Worse
> are the techs who thought it was a good idea to solder the crimped
> connector "just for safety".
>
> A good gas tight crimp is actually superior to solder anyway. That is why
> no modern computer has used solder connections in the wiring looms for
> decades. Before crimp, wire wrap was more reliable once the issues of
> making sure it is gas tight and teflon wire cold flow were identified.
>
> A modern protective gel filled crimp connector properly applied and
> crimped beats any solder joint for mechanical and electrical integrity.
>
>
>
> Rich proclaimed:
>
>> Been an electronics technician for 20 years....
>> Don't use crimp connectors or reinsulate with electrical tape. Both are
>> bad practices.
>> Do it right, and solder in new wires. I'd recommend you go to the
>> boneyard as someone else said and find that part of the wire loom, cut
>> out the part you need keeping everything intact from the bad area to the
>> terminus of each wire as practically as possible and replace the whole
>> shooting match. Stagger the solder connections, use rosin core not acid
>> core solder, and be sure to use flux on the wires.
>> First and foremost if you don't have experience at soldering, PRACTICE on
>> some other wires to get the technique down before going in. Soldering is
>> very easy with a bit of practice and guidance.
>> Lastly use heatshrink on each connection and make sure it forms a tight
>> seal.
>>
>> "Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
>> news:3t7ph8Fr7vgdU1@individual.net...
>>
>>>Stuff like this can be easily, quickly, and permanently fixed with
>>>crimps. They make a type that has an heat-shrink insulator, so squeeze
>>>some dielectric grease in, crimp the wires, heat shrink the insulator,
>>>and you are done. The dielectric will prevent any moisture from getting
>>>in and corroding. Tie the whole mess away from the exhaust with some Adel
>>>clamps to prevent having to do it again.
>>>It's only a car, why waste time overdoing it?
>>>--
>>>Stupendous Man,
>>>Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>>>
>>
>>

Rich

Lon,
There is validity to what you say, but our original poster is repairing
wiring on an old Wrangler not an F-117. The crimp-on connectors he's
probably going to be buying are going to come from somewhere like Car-Quest
or Pep-Boys. Cheap junk on a good day. While I by no means profess to be an
engineer I do have real world experience with electronics in all types of
environments including salt water. I still assert that he'd do better
soldering and properly heat shrinking. If he were fixing a B2 Bomber or a
SPY-1 Radar I'd say you might be right.
Put it in perspective.


"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B7WdnawVYefSVvLeRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> Being an electronics design engineer with special background in
> manufacturing and service engineering, I'd have to strongly disagree with
> you. For a big consulting fee, I could even prove it with statistics. Or
> ask why there are no solder joints in a modern car.
>
> The typical untrained person attempting to solder is going to do more
> damage than good. In my experience troubleshooting complex military and
> mainframes after some doofus decided to solder, there aren't that many
> NASA grade trained solder technicians that can do it right every time
> compared to using a good foolproof latching die based crimp tool. Worse
> are the techs who thought it was a good idea to solder the crimped
> connector "just for safety".
>
> A good gas tight crimp is actually superior to solder anyway. That is why
> no modern computer has used solder connections in the wiring looms for
> decades. Before crimp, wire wrap was more reliable once the issues of
> making sure it is gas tight and teflon wire cold flow were identified.
>
> A modern protective gel filled crimp connector properly applied and
> crimped beats any solder joint for mechanical and electrical integrity.
>
>
>
> Rich proclaimed:
>
>> Been an electronics technician for 20 years....
>> Don't use crimp connectors or reinsulate with electrical tape. Both are
>> bad practices.
>> Do it right, and solder in new wires. I'd recommend you go to the
>> boneyard as someone else said and find that part of the wire loom, cut
>> out the part you need keeping everything intact from the bad area to the
>> terminus of each wire as practically as possible and replace the whole
>> shooting match. Stagger the solder connections, use rosin core not acid
>> core solder, and be sure to use flux on the wires.
>> First and foremost if you don't have experience at soldering, PRACTICE on
>> some other wires to get the technique down before going in. Soldering is
>> very easy with a bit of practice and guidance.
>> Lastly use heatshrink on each connection and make sure it forms a tight
>> seal.
>>
>> "Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
>> news:3t7ph8Fr7vgdU1@individual.net...
>>
>>>Stuff like this can be easily, quickly, and permanently fixed with
>>>crimps. They make a type that has an heat-shrink insulator, so squeeze
>>>some dielectric grease in, crimp the wires, heat shrink the insulator,
>>>and you are done. The dielectric will prevent any moisture from getting
>>>in and corroding. Tie the whole mess away from the exhaust with some Adel
>>>clamps to prevent having to do it again.
>>>It's only a car, why waste time overdoing it?
>>>--
>>>Stupendous Man,
>>>Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>>>
>>
>>

Rich

Lon,
There is validity to what you say, but our original poster is repairing
wiring on an old Wrangler not an F-117. The crimp-on connectors he's
probably going to be buying are going to come from somewhere like Car-Quest
or Pep-Boys. Cheap junk on a good day. While I by no means profess to be an
engineer I do have real world experience with electronics in all types of
environments including salt water. I still assert that he'd do better
soldering and properly heat shrinking. If he were fixing a B2 Bomber or a
SPY-1 Radar I'd say you might be right.
Put it in perspective.


"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B7WdnawVYefSVvLeRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> Being an electronics design engineer with special background in
> manufacturing and service engineering, I'd have to strongly disagree with
> you. For a big consulting fee, I could even prove it with statistics. Or
> ask why there are no solder joints in a modern car.
>
> The typical untrained person attempting to solder is going to do more
> damage than good. In my experience troubleshooting complex military and
> mainframes after some doofus decided to solder, there aren't that many
> NASA grade trained solder technicians that can do it right every time
> compared to using a good foolproof latching die based crimp tool. Worse
> are the techs who thought it was a good idea to solder the crimped
> connector "just for safety".
>
> A good gas tight crimp is actually superior to solder anyway. That is why
> no modern computer has used solder connections in the wiring looms for
> decades. Before crimp, wire wrap was more reliable once the issues of
> making sure it is gas tight and teflon wire cold flow were identified.
>
> A modern protective gel filled crimp connector properly applied and
> crimped beats any solder joint for mechanical and electrical integrity.
>
>
>
> Rich proclaimed:
>
>> Been an electronics technician for 20 years....
>> Don't use crimp connectors or reinsulate with electrical tape. Both are
>> bad practices.
>> Do it right, and solder in new wires. I'd recommend you go to the
>> boneyard as someone else said and find that part of the wire loom, cut
>> out the part you need keeping everything intact from the bad area to the
>> terminus of each wire as practically as possible and replace the whole
>> shooting match. Stagger the solder connections, use rosin core not acid
>> core solder, and be sure to use flux on the wires.
>> First and foremost if you don't have experience at soldering, PRACTICE on
>> some other wires to get the technique down before going in. Soldering is
>> very easy with a bit of practice and guidance.
>> Lastly use heatshrink on each connection and make sure it forms a tight
>> seal.
>>
>> "Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
>> news:3t7ph8Fr7vgdU1@individual.net...
>>
>>>Stuff like this can be easily, quickly, and permanently fixed with
>>>crimps. They make a type that has an heat-shrink insulator, so squeeze
>>>some dielectric grease in, crimp the wires, heat shrink the insulator,
>>>and you are done. The dielectric will prevent any moisture from getting
>>>in and corroding. Tie the whole mess away from the exhaust with some Adel
>>>clamps to prevent having to do it again.
>>>It's only a car, why waste time overdoing it?
>>>--
>>>Stupendous Man,
>>>Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>>>
>>
>>

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Hi Rich,
I do it your way. The crimping tool found at your local parts store
isn't anywhere near the quality used by the manufacturer. And there's
quit a skill lever in doing it, many actually cut the wire inside the
crimped connection, usually falling apart as they attempt to install it.
Or within a year they're out there doing the whole jog again. I do try
to keep the solder within the connection, if it leaches out it'll make
the wire brittle.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Rich wrote:
>
> Lon,
> There is validity to what you say, but our original poster is repairing
> wiring on an old Wrangler not an F-117. The crimp-on connectors he's
> probably going to be buying are going to come from somewhere like Car-Quest
> or Pep-Boys. Cheap junk on a good day. While I by no means profess to be an
> engineer I do have real world experience with electronics in all types of
> environments including salt water. I still assert that he'd do better
> soldering and properly heat shrinking. If he were fixing a B2 Bomber or a
> SPY-1 Radar I'd say you might be right.
> Put it in perspective.

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Hi Rich,
I do it your way. The crimping tool found at your local parts store
isn't anywhere near the quality used by the manufacturer. And there's
quit a skill lever in doing it, many actually cut the wire inside the
crimped connection, usually falling apart as they attempt to install it.
Or within a year they're out there doing the whole jog again. I do try
to keep the solder within the connection, if it leaches out it'll make
the wire brittle.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Rich wrote:
>
> Lon,
> There is validity to what you say, but our original poster is repairing
> wiring on an old Wrangler not an F-117. The crimp-on connectors he's
> probably going to be buying are going to come from somewhere like Car-Quest
> or Pep-Boys. Cheap junk on a good day. While I by no means profess to be an
> engineer I do have real world experience with electronics in all types of
> environments including salt water. I still assert that he'd do better
> soldering and properly heat shrinking. If he were fixing a B2 Bomber or a
> SPY-1 Radar I'd say you might be right.
> Put it in perspective.

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Hi Rich,
I do it your way. The crimping tool found at your local parts store
isn't anywhere near the quality used by the manufacturer. And there's
quit a skill lever in doing it, many actually cut the wire inside the
crimped connection, usually falling apart as they attempt to install it.
Or within a year they're out there doing the whole jog again. I do try
to keep the solder within the connection, if it leaches out it'll make
the wire brittle.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Rich wrote:
>
> Lon,
> There is validity to what you say, but our original poster is repairing
> wiring on an old Wrangler not an F-117. The crimp-on connectors he's
> probably going to be buying are going to come from somewhere like Car-Quest
> or Pep-Boys. Cheap junk on a good day. While I by no means profess to be an
> engineer I do have real world experience with electronics in all types of
> environments including salt water. I still assert that he'd do better
> soldering and properly heat shrinking. If he were fixing a B2 Bomber or a
> SPY-1 Radar I'd say you might be right.
> Put it in perspective.

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Hi Lon,
I think if take a pair of side cutters and the cut what's used by
the manufacturer's connection in half, lengthwise you'll find that's
also fused. each little is stuck to each other and the case. So there's
no way se could duplicate it.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Lon wrote:
>
> Being an electronics design engineer with special background in
> manufacturing and service engineering, I'd have to strongly disagree
> with you. For a big consulting fee, I could even prove it with
> statistics. Or ask why there are no solder joints in a modern car.
>
> The typical untrained person attempting to solder is going to do more
> damage than good. In my experience troubleshooting complex military and
> mainframes after some doofus decided to solder, there aren't that many
> NASA grade trained solder technicians that can do it right every time
> compared to using a good foolproof latching die based crimp tool. Worse
> are the techs who thought it was a good idea to solder the crimped
> connector "just for safety".
>
> A good gas tight crimp is actually superior to solder anyway. That is
> why no modern computer has used solder connections in the wiring looms
> for decades. Before crimp, wire wrap was more reliable once the issues
> of making sure it is gas tight and teflon wire cold flow were identified.
>
> A modern protective gel filled crimp connector properly applied and
> crimped beats any solder joint for mechanical and electrical integrity.