phelan@west-point.org

Wow, what a lot of great comments. What I've gotten out of it is that
if I'm going to solder, do it right -- there's more to it than having
my son hold the two wires together while I drip some melted solder onto
them. If I'm going to use crimp connectors, use good ones with a
proper crimping tool.
I hadn't thought of going to a boneyard and taking out just the part of
the harness that I need. The thought of replacing the whole thing kind
of turned me off of the used market because I figured I would spend as
much time pulling it out as I would installing it. And I'd probably
damage it in the process. But just taking what I need will work since
that part is easily accessible anyway.
This whole thing started when a mechanic told me that I had to replace
the whole thing and he found a used one in California for $450 that he
could probably install. Repairing the old one was out of the question
because it was too damaged. I took his word for it but wasn't too
pleased about the cost of installing a new harness. So he suggested
converting to a Fuel Injection system. So I ordered a Howell kit and
delivered it to him. Two weeks later he still hadn't even pulled my
jeep out of his storage (yes, this was going on six months). I told
him I just wanted it back and that I would install the FI kit myself.
When I started to dig into it, I discovered that the harness was not so
badly fried. In fact the strands themselves were still intact.
Hence, this discussion.
But hey, since I have the $1100 dollar FI kit, what's the vote? Should
I put it in or save the money? I did a temporary taping job on the
wires just to see how she would run, and all seems OK so far. So now
I'm ready to go for a more permanent solution. Should I repair the old
harness in a manner suggested above and try to return the kit, or suck
down the cost of the kit and install it?
This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
be my son's short commute school car.

Thanks in advance,
Howard

Stupendous Man

> This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
> be my son's short commute school car.

Dream on, Howard. If your son is an average young man, that poor machine is
going to be doing some pretty hard work.
At this point i would look on it as disposable, not spend money on long-term
solutions or paint, and then you won't get too pissed when it gets damaged.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Stupendous Man

> This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
> be my son's short commute school car.

Dream on, Howard. If your son is an average young man, that poor machine is
going to be doing some pretty hard work.
At this point i would look on it as disposable, not spend money on long-term
solutions or paint, and then you won't get too pissed when it gets damaged.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Stupendous Man

> This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
> be my son's short commute school car.

Dream on, Howard. If your son is an average young man, that poor machine is
going to be doing some pretty hard work.
At this point i would look on it as disposable, not spend money on long-term
solutions or paint, and then you won't get too pissed when it gets damaged.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Billy Ray

Sounds like a good father-son project.

I would prefer a solder job myself. Be sure to use wire of at least the
same gauge if not larger and use the proper wattage tool and appropriate
solder.

Shrink wrap all the connections you make, protect them in split tubing if
possible and zip-tie them out of harms way.

The infamous Carter BBD carburetor can be made to run well with just a
little work and a couple bucks for a drill bit. Contact Mike Romaine or
Bill ------ for links to the appropriate information

--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
> This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
> be my son's short commute school car.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Howard
>

Billy Ray

Sounds like a good father-son project.

I would prefer a solder job myself. Be sure to use wire of at least the
same gauge if not larger and use the proper wattage tool and appropriate
solder.

Shrink wrap all the connections you make, protect them in split tubing if
possible and zip-tie them out of harms way.

The infamous Carter BBD carburetor can be made to run well with just a
little work and a couple bucks for a drill bit. Contact Mike Romaine or
Bill ------ for links to the appropriate information

--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
> This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
> be my son's short commute school car.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Howard
>

Billy Ray

Sounds like a good father-son project.

I would prefer a solder job myself. Be sure to use wire of at least the
same gauge if not larger and use the proper wattage tool and appropriate
solder.

Shrink wrap all the connections you make, protect them in split tubing if
possible and zip-tie them out of harms way.

The infamous Carter BBD carburetor can be made to run well with just a
little work and a couple bucks for a drill bit. Contact Mike Romaine or
Bill ------ for links to the appropriate information

--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
> This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
> be my son's short commute school car.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Howard
>

popeyeball

Howard,
I am so glad you brought up the subject of using 'electrical wire' used
in the earlier posts. Did you use that shiny stuff, probably the black
shiny stuff? In my world that's not electrical wire. To most
electrical wire serves so that conductors do not make contact with
other wires or ground. The problem with the 'plastic' electrical wire
is that it allows moisture to collect (if even as a vapor. This in
itself can lead to shorts and grounds. It is also not the best wire
for wraping wires imho.
Look at cars from the early 90's or earlier, you know, before plastic
tubing was used to protect groups of wire. Back than a 'cloth tape was
used to wrap wires. It's even used today at the ends of wire runs on
autos where the connectors plug in. The greatest quality of the cloth
electrical tape is it allows moiture to get it (ya can't stop it) but
it also allows it to escape. The worst problems with cloth wire is the
end of the overlapping wraps will not stick at the bitter end.
So Howard, if you do leave the electrical wire on - get the cloth wire
and secure each end with the plastic wire.
As for solder or crimping? It's your call because your going to have
to re-fix it if it isn't done right. Each will work, it's how it's
done that's important. Myself I'd choose solder because I have
soldered thousands of wires in the past.
I sure wish I had a nice clean work bench like that one link with
instructions on how to solder. It was a pretty informative link but
I'd add a few more things (20/20 blindsight).
I don't believe the gentleman mentioned why you needed to have a sponge
as part of your tools.
A damp sponge (I would reccomend using damp newspaper unless you have a
sponge handy to burn up) is used to clean off the 'tinned' side of the
welding wand. Go with the wand.
If you choose to solder find a comfortable spot, like your work bench
and practice making a couple of solders. He mentioned a 'cold' solder.
He didn't mention that a cold solder will still hold the wires
together as well as a good 'hot' solder. The differance is the cold
solder is going crack somerwere down the road. The crack will cause
intermittent operation or a complete open.
When practicing (get the larger diamiter solder) press the tinned side
of the wand on one side of the pair of wires. Do not use the tip of
the iron as shown in that link but the flat, tinned side of the iron.
Than press the opposite side of the wire with the solder. Only a small
amount of pressure is needed - actually gentle would be a good word
here. Only a dab of solder will be needed to do the job - not a glob.
An expert, clean solder would show the viens of the wire strands under
the solder.
Someone mentioned using larger wire - I would stay away from this
because it will change current carrying capacity of the circut (ohms).
Be careful not to match up wire by the thickness of the outer wire but
by the size of the inner-conductors. You'd think they'd be standard
but that's not the case.
After each wire is soldered I would wipe the iron (damp newspaper) than
re-tin the iron. Shake or flick the end of the iron to remove the
excess solder and go to the next wire. As for using your son or
another person, it can be very dangerous using this very hot tool that
is very unfogivving. Have a plan and make sure each of you know what
you are going to do and not do. Arranging a suitable place to lye the
iron is very necessary for both safety and so that further damage is
not done to your Jeep.
I agree with the earlier poster about thinking that the existing wires
are ok. Take the worst witre, strip back a nip of insulation with your
pocket knife and you'll be a very lucky man if you see shiny copper -
it is highly unlucky.
Good Luck,
Steve





phelan@west-point.org wrote:
> Wow, what a lot of great comments. What I've gotten out of it is that
> if I'm going to solder, do it right -- there's more to it than having
> my son hold the two wires together while I drip some melted solder onto
> them. If I'm going to use crimp connectors, use good ones with a
> proper crimping tool.
> I hadn't thought of going to a boneyard and taking out just the part of
> the harness that I need. The thought of replacing the whole thing kind
> of turned me off of the used market because I figured I would spend as
> much time pulling it out as I would installing it. And I'd probably
> damage it in the process. But just taking what I need will work since
> that part is easily accessible anyway.
> This whole thing started when a mechanic told me that I had to replace
> the whole thing and he found a used one in California for $450 that he
> could probably install. Repairing the old one was out of the question
> because it was too damaged. I took his word for it but wasn't too
> pleased about the cost of installing a new harness. So he suggested
> converting to a Fuel Injection system. So I ordered a Howell kit and
> delivered it to him. Two weeks later he still hadn't even pulled my
> jeep out of his storage (yes, this was going on six months). I told
> him I just wanted it back and that I would install the FI kit myself.
> When I started to dig into it, I discovered that the harness was not so
> badly fried. In fact the strands themselves were still intact.
> Hence, this discussion.
> But hey, since I have the $1100 dollar FI kit, what's the vote? Should
> I put it in or save the money? I did a temporary taping job on the
> wires just to see how she would run, and all seems OK so far. So now
> I'm ready to go for a more permanent solution. Should I repair the old
> harness in a manner suggested above and try to return the kit, or suck
> down the cost of the kit and install it?
> This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
> be my son's short commute school car.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Howard

popeyeball

Howard,
I am so glad you brought up the subject of using 'electrical wire' used
in the earlier posts. Did you use that shiny stuff, probably the black
shiny stuff? In my world that's not electrical wire. To most
electrical wire serves so that conductors do not make contact with
other wires or ground. The problem with the 'plastic' electrical wire
is that it allows moisture to collect (if even as a vapor. This in
itself can lead to shorts and grounds. It is also not the best wire
for wraping wires imho.
Look at cars from the early 90's or earlier, you know, before plastic
tubing was used to protect groups of wire. Back than a 'cloth tape was
used to wrap wires. It's even used today at the ends of wire runs on
autos where the connectors plug in. The greatest quality of the cloth
electrical tape is it allows moiture to get it (ya can't stop it) but
it also allows it to escape. The worst problems with cloth wire is the
end of the overlapping wraps will not stick at the bitter end.
So Howard, if you do leave the electrical wire on - get the cloth wire
and secure each end with the plastic wire.
As for solder or crimping? It's your call because your going to have
to re-fix it if it isn't done right. Each will work, it's how it's
done that's important. Myself I'd choose solder because I have
soldered thousands of wires in the past.
I sure wish I had a nice clean work bench like that one link with
instructions on how to solder. It was a pretty informative link but
I'd add a few more things (20/20 blindsight).
I don't believe the gentleman mentioned why you needed to have a sponge
as part of your tools.
A damp sponge (I would reccomend using damp newspaper unless you have a
sponge handy to burn up) is used to clean off the 'tinned' side of the
welding wand. Go with the wand.
If you choose to solder find a comfortable spot, like your work bench
and practice making a couple of solders. He mentioned a 'cold' solder.
He didn't mention that a cold solder will still hold the wires
together as well as a good 'hot' solder. The differance is the cold
solder is going crack somerwere down the road. The crack will cause
intermittent operation or a complete open.
When practicing (get the larger diamiter solder) press the tinned side
of the wand on one side of the pair of wires. Do not use the tip of
the iron as shown in that link but the flat, tinned side of the iron.
Than press the opposite side of the wire with the solder. Only a small
amount of pressure is needed - actually gentle would be a good word
here. Only a dab of solder will be needed to do the job - not a glob.
An expert, clean solder would show the viens of the wire strands under
the solder.
Someone mentioned using larger wire - I would stay away from this
because it will change current carrying capacity of the circut (ohms).
Be careful not to match up wire by the thickness of the outer wire but
by the size of the inner-conductors. You'd think they'd be standard
but that's not the case.
After each wire is soldered I would wipe the iron (damp newspaper) than
re-tin the iron. Shake or flick the end of the iron to remove the
excess solder and go to the next wire. As for using your son or
another person, it can be very dangerous using this very hot tool that
is very unfogivving. Have a plan and make sure each of you know what
you are going to do and not do. Arranging a suitable place to lye the
iron is very necessary for both safety and so that further damage is
not done to your Jeep.
I agree with the earlier poster about thinking that the existing wires
are ok. Take the worst witre, strip back a nip of insulation with your
pocket knife and you'll be a very lucky man if you see shiny copper -
it is highly unlucky.
Good Luck,
Steve





phelan@west-point.org wrote:
> Wow, what a lot of great comments. What I've gotten out of it is that
> if I'm going to solder, do it right -- there's more to it than having
> my son hold the two wires together while I drip some melted solder onto
> them. If I'm going to use crimp connectors, use good ones with a
> proper crimping tool.
> I hadn't thought of going to a boneyard and taking out just the part of
> the harness that I need. The thought of replacing the whole thing kind
> of turned me off of the used market because I figured I would spend as
> much time pulling it out as I would installing it. And I'd probably
> damage it in the process. But just taking what I need will work since
> that part is easily accessible anyway.
> This whole thing started when a mechanic told me that I had to replace
> the whole thing and he found a used one in California for $450 that he
> could probably install. Repairing the old one was out of the question
> because it was too damaged. I took his word for it but wasn't too
> pleased about the cost of installing a new harness. So he suggested
> converting to a Fuel Injection system. So I ordered a Howell kit and
> delivered it to him. Two weeks later he still hadn't even pulled my
> jeep out of his storage (yes, this was going on six months). I told
> him I just wanted it back and that I would install the FI kit myself.
> When I started to dig into it, I discovered that the harness was not so
> badly fried. In fact the strands themselves were still intact.
> Hence, this discussion.
> But hey, since I have the $1100 dollar FI kit, what's the vote? Should
> I put it in or save the money? I did a temporary taping job on the
> wires just to see how she would run, and all seems OK so far. So now
> I'm ready to go for a more permanent solution. Should I repair the old
> harness in a manner suggested above and try to return the kit, or suck
> down the cost of the kit and install it?
> This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
> be my son's short commute school car.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Howard

popeyeball

Howard,
I am so glad you brought up the subject of using 'electrical wire' used
in the earlier posts. Did you use that shiny stuff, probably the black
shiny stuff? In my world that's not electrical wire. To most
electrical wire serves so that conductors do not make contact with
other wires or ground. The problem with the 'plastic' electrical wire
is that it allows moisture to collect (if even as a vapor. This in
itself can lead to shorts and grounds. It is also not the best wire
for wraping wires imho.
Look at cars from the early 90's or earlier, you know, before plastic
tubing was used to protect groups of wire. Back than a 'cloth tape was
used to wrap wires. It's even used today at the ends of wire runs on
autos where the connectors plug in. The greatest quality of the cloth
electrical tape is it allows moiture to get it (ya can't stop it) but
it also allows it to escape. The worst problems with cloth wire is the
end of the overlapping wraps will not stick at the bitter end.
So Howard, if you do leave the electrical wire on - get the cloth wire
and secure each end with the plastic wire.
As for solder or crimping? It's your call because your going to have
to re-fix it if it isn't done right. Each will work, it's how it's
done that's important. Myself I'd choose solder because I have
soldered thousands of wires in the past.
I sure wish I had a nice clean work bench like that one link with
instructions on how to solder. It was a pretty informative link but
I'd add a few more things (20/20 blindsight).
I don't believe the gentleman mentioned why you needed to have a sponge
as part of your tools.
A damp sponge (I would reccomend using damp newspaper unless you have a
sponge handy to burn up) is used to clean off the 'tinned' side of the
welding wand. Go with the wand.
If you choose to solder find a comfortable spot, like your work bench
and practice making a couple of solders. He mentioned a 'cold' solder.
He didn't mention that a cold solder will still hold the wires
together as well as a good 'hot' solder. The differance is the cold
solder is going crack somerwere down the road. The crack will cause
intermittent operation or a complete open.
When practicing (get the larger diamiter solder) press the tinned side
of the wand on one side of the pair of wires. Do not use the tip of
the iron as shown in that link but the flat, tinned side of the iron.
Than press the opposite side of the wire with the solder. Only a small
amount of pressure is needed - actually gentle would be a good word
here. Only a dab of solder will be needed to do the job - not a glob.
An expert, clean solder would show the viens of the wire strands under
the solder.
Someone mentioned using larger wire - I would stay away from this
because it will change current carrying capacity of the circut (ohms).
Be careful not to match up wire by the thickness of the outer wire but
by the size of the inner-conductors. You'd think they'd be standard
but that's not the case.
After each wire is soldered I would wipe the iron (damp newspaper) than
re-tin the iron. Shake or flick the end of the iron to remove the
excess solder and go to the next wire. As for using your son or
another person, it can be very dangerous using this very hot tool that
is very unfogivving. Have a plan and make sure each of you know what
you are going to do and not do. Arranging a suitable place to lye the
iron is very necessary for both safety and so that further damage is
not done to your Jeep.
I agree with the earlier poster about thinking that the existing wires
are ok. Take the worst witre, strip back a nip of insulation with your
pocket knife and you'll be a very lucky man if you see shiny copper -
it is highly unlucky.
Good Luck,
Steve





phelan@west-point.org wrote:
> Wow, what a lot of great comments. What I've gotten out of it is that
> if I'm going to solder, do it right -- there's more to it than having
> my son hold the two wires together while I drip some melted solder onto
> them. If I'm going to use crimp connectors, use good ones with a
> proper crimping tool.
> I hadn't thought of going to a boneyard and taking out just the part of
> the harness that I need. The thought of replacing the whole thing kind
> of turned me off of the used market because I figured I would spend as
> much time pulling it out as I would installing it. And I'd probably
> damage it in the process. But just taking what I need will work since
> that part is easily accessible anyway.
> This whole thing started when a mechanic told me that I had to replace
> the whole thing and he found a used one in California for $450 that he
> could probably install. Repairing the old one was out of the question
> because it was too damaged. I took his word for it but wasn't too
> pleased about the cost of installing a new harness. So he suggested
> converting to a Fuel Injection system. So I ordered a Howell kit and
> delivered it to him. Two weeks later he still hadn't even pulled my
> jeep out of his storage (yes, this was going on six months). I told
> him I just wanted it back and that I would install the FI kit myself.
> When I started to dig into it, I discovered that the harness was not so
> badly fried. In fact the strands themselves were still intact.
> Hence, this discussion.
> But hey, since I have the $1100 dollar FI kit, what's the vote? Should
> I put it in or save the money? I did a temporary taping job on the
> wires just to see how she would run, and all seems OK so far. So now
> I'm ready to go for a more permanent solution. Should I repair the old
> harness in a manner suggested above and try to return the kit, or suck
> down the cost of the kit and install it?
> This jeep is a long commuter (30 miles 1 way) for me now, but will soon
> be my son's short commute school car.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Howard