question on jeep dealer refusing service.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
Greetings from Big Wonderful Wyoming,
Scroll down for a bottom posting......
"cooper" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:hYQgc.10525$hM2.7558@nntp-post.primus.ca...
>
> "cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
> news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> >
> >
> <snip>
>
> > You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority
of
> > buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
> doing
> > so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or
merely
> > wait for advertised specials.
> >
>
> My negotiation skills suck. I don't think I _have_ to be skilled in
> negotiating to spend thousands of my dollars at a dealership. I'm one of
> those people that just can't seem to say what they need to say, or have
the
> directness needed to be a 'negotiator'. I HATE trying to buy a new car,
and
> it's why I passed on an 02 and bought my 94 YJ from a private sale.
>
> I don't want to own a Saturn. I don't want to limit myself to waiting for
> the one selected model in an advertised special.I wanted the TJ (sorry
Bill)
> that I wanted but couldn't get the 'deal' that I could have if I had
> negotiating skills. Should I take a course? Bah.
>
> You sound like a successful salesman for sure. I'm glad you enjoy it. But
> don't expect the negative comments you're receiving is just because of one
> bad experience. Not everyone is good at head games or quick with a reply,
or
> has the skills required to take 3k off the asked price.
>
> coop
I understand, I've owned two Saturns. I'd rather have a Jeep!
Negotiating skills 101:
*If you're in love with the desired vehicle, don't show it.
*Be prepared to walk.
*Walk... and see what happens.
*Be reasonable, ankle shots at thousands below a dealer's cost will not be
taken seriously. After all, any car store needs to turn a profit to keep
their doors open.
*Have a positive attitude.
I am a successful saleman, thanks for the compliment.
"3k off the asked price".... is that a good deal? Maybe. It depends on
what you're buying. For example, the markup (dealer invoice vs. MSRP) on a
Ford Focus is very small, while it's much larger on a Ford Superduty.
You'll never get a 3k discount on a Focus, but on a Superduty....well, just
drop me a line, I can arrange it. It's easy enough to figure out what
dealer invoice is. You can go directly to the official Ford website, build
a vehicle to your specs and see exactly what dealer invoice is. Yes, it is
that easy. There are many websites out there that will give you invoice
cost on Jeeps. Do some research.
I don't blame you for not wanting the advertised specials. More often than
not they're stripped down base models or aged inventory, e.g. the puke green
color that nobody wants and the dealer has been sitting on for 10 months.
If the model you seek is the hot color that's in high demand, and you've got
to have it right now, step up your thinking regarding price. If you have
the luxury of waiting 8-10 weeks, ordering a Jeep to your specs will be the
best way to go.
Buying a car is not about head games and being taken advantage of. Be
informed, be smart and go in with a positive attitude. If you're being
jerked around, walk. Have fun.
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
Scroll down for a bottom posting......
"cooper" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:hYQgc.10525$hM2.7558@nntp-post.primus.ca...
>
> "cactuscowboy" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote in message
> news:UKidnQx9iaTqbhzdRVn-vg@bresnan.com...
> >
> >
> <snip>
>
> > You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, the vast majority
of
> > buyers expect to negotiate their vehicle purchase and have no problem
> doing
> > so. If you find it so difficult, you should either buy a Saturn or
merely
> > wait for advertised specials.
> >
>
> My negotiation skills suck. I don't think I _have_ to be skilled in
> negotiating to spend thousands of my dollars at a dealership. I'm one of
> those people that just can't seem to say what they need to say, or have
the
> directness needed to be a 'negotiator'. I HATE trying to buy a new car,
and
> it's why I passed on an 02 and bought my 94 YJ from a private sale.
>
> I don't want to own a Saturn. I don't want to limit myself to waiting for
> the one selected model in an advertised special.I wanted the TJ (sorry
Bill)
> that I wanted but couldn't get the 'deal' that I could have if I had
> negotiating skills. Should I take a course? Bah.
>
> You sound like a successful salesman for sure. I'm glad you enjoy it. But
> don't expect the negative comments you're receiving is just because of one
> bad experience. Not everyone is good at head games or quick with a reply,
or
> has the skills required to take 3k off the asked price.
>
> coop
I understand, I've owned two Saturns. I'd rather have a Jeep!
Negotiating skills 101:
*If you're in love with the desired vehicle, don't show it.
*Be prepared to walk.
*Walk... and see what happens.
*Be reasonable, ankle shots at thousands below a dealer's cost will not be
taken seriously. After all, any car store needs to turn a profit to keep
their doors open.
*Have a positive attitude.
I am a successful saleman, thanks for the compliment.
"3k off the asked price".... is that a good deal? Maybe. It depends on
what you're buying. For example, the markup (dealer invoice vs. MSRP) on a
Ford Focus is very small, while it's much larger on a Ford Superduty.
You'll never get a 3k discount on a Focus, but on a Superduty....well, just
drop me a line, I can arrange it. It's easy enough to figure out what
dealer invoice is. You can go directly to the official Ford website, build
a vehicle to your specs and see exactly what dealer invoice is. Yes, it is
that easy. There are many websites out there that will give you invoice
cost on Jeeps. Do some research.
I don't blame you for not wanting the advertised specials. More often than
not they're stripped down base models or aged inventory, e.g. the puke green
color that nobody wants and the dealer has been sitting on for 10 months.
If the model you seek is the hot color that's in high demand, and you've got
to have it right now, step up your thinking regarding price. If you have
the luxury of waiting 8-10 weeks, ordering a Jeep to your specs will be the
best way to go.
Buying a car is not about head games and being taken advantage of. Be
informed, be smart and go in with a positive attitude. If you're being
jerked around, walk. Have fun.
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:14:48 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
<cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>Buying a car is not about head games and being taken advantage of.
The salesman wants desperately to take advantage of you.
> Be
>informed, be smart and go in with a positive attitude.
Why should I have a positive attitude about dealing with car sales
people? (The biggest jerks, on average, I've met in my life have been
trying to sell me a car for more than it's worth.)
> If you're being jerked around, walk.
Then you never get a car; all dealers attempt to jerk customers
around.
> Have fun.
I'd rather have dental work without novocaine than to talk to the
sleazeballs at the dealers around here.
---
Bob
<cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>Buying a car is not about head games and being taken advantage of.
The salesman wants desperately to take advantage of you.
> Be
>informed, be smart and go in with a positive attitude.
Why should I have a positive attitude about dealing with car sales
people? (The biggest jerks, on average, I've met in my life have been
trying to sell me a car for more than it's worth.)
> If you're being jerked around, walk.
Then you never get a car; all dealers attempt to jerk customers
around.
> Have fun.
I'd rather have dental work without novocaine than to talk to the
sleazeballs at the dealers around here.
---
Bob
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:14:48 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
<cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>Buying a car is not about head games and being taken advantage of.
The salesman wants desperately to take advantage of you.
> Be
>informed, be smart and go in with a positive attitude.
Why should I have a positive attitude about dealing with car sales
people? (The biggest jerks, on average, I've met in my life have been
trying to sell me a car for more than it's worth.)
> If you're being jerked around, walk.
Then you never get a car; all dealers attempt to jerk customers
around.
> Have fun.
I'd rather have dental work without novocaine than to talk to the
sleazeballs at the dealers around here.
---
Bob
<cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>Buying a car is not about head games and being taken advantage of.
The salesman wants desperately to take advantage of you.
> Be
>informed, be smart and go in with a positive attitude.
Why should I have a positive attitude about dealing with car sales
people? (The biggest jerks, on average, I've met in my life have been
trying to sell me a car for more than it's worth.)
> If you're being jerked around, walk.
Then you never get a car; all dealers attempt to jerk customers
around.
> Have fun.
I'd rather have dental work without novocaine than to talk to the
sleazeballs at the dealers around here.
---
Bob
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:14:48 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
<cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>Buying a car is not about head games and being taken advantage of.
The salesman wants desperately to take advantage of you.
> Be
>informed, be smart and go in with a positive attitude.
Why should I have a positive attitude about dealing with car sales
people? (The biggest jerks, on average, I've met in my life have been
trying to sell me a car for more than it's worth.)
> If you're being jerked around, walk.
Then you never get a car; all dealers attempt to jerk customers
around.
> Have fun.
I'd rather have dental work without novocaine than to talk to the
sleazeballs at the dealers around here.
---
Bob
<cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>Buying a car is not about head games and being taken advantage of.
The salesman wants desperately to take advantage of you.
> Be
>informed, be smart and go in with a positive attitude.
Why should I have a positive attitude about dealing with car sales
people? (The biggest jerks, on average, I've met in my life have been
trying to sell me a car for more than it's worth.)
> If you're being jerked around, walk.
Then you never get a car; all dealers attempt to jerk customers
around.
> Have fun.
I'd rather have dental work without novocaine than to talk to the
sleazeballs at the dealers around here.
---
Bob
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:14:48 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
<cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>Buying a car is not about head games and being taken advantage of.
The salesman wants desperately to take advantage of you.
> Be
>informed, be smart and go in with a positive attitude.
Why should I have a positive attitude about dealing with car sales
people? (The biggest jerks, on average, I've met in my life have been
trying to sell me a car for more than it's worth.)
> If you're being jerked around, walk.
Then you never get a car; all dealers attempt to jerk customers
around.
> Have fun.
I'd rather have dental work without novocaine than to talk to the
sleazeballs at the dealers around here.
---
Bob
<cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>Buying a car is not about head games and being taken advantage of.
The salesman wants desperately to take advantage of you.
> Be
>informed, be smart and go in with a positive attitude.
Why should I have a positive attitude about dealing with car sales
people? (The biggest jerks, on average, I've met in my life have been
trying to sell me a car for more than it's worth.)
> If you're being jerked around, walk.
Then you never get a car; all dealers attempt to jerk customers
around.
> Have fun.
I'd rather have dental work without novocaine than to talk to the
sleazeballs at the dealers around here.
---
Bob
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
"RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g45880la5mp78jnahd154d30ha9gkpnad7@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:10:03 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>
> >Correct. But it's not just the money.
>
> Do you enjoy taking extra money from elderly or naive people who are
> not good negotiators or who believe you when you 'negotiate'?
>
If a customer pays top dollar, e.g. over retail book value, for a vehicle
and is completely satisfied with the vehicle and the purchase, is that not a
good deal? Would you consider that "taking extra money"? I wouldn't, nor
would the customer. BTW, some of the toughest negotiators are the elderly
customers I deal with. I enjoy helping customers find the right vehicle for
their needs. I enjoy coming to terms on a price that a customer is happy
with, whether or not you or anyone else thinks they paid too much.
I offer no apologies for selling vehicles at a profit. We do not take
unfair advantage of demented or retarded customers. The dealership I work
for employs 17 people at good wages, offers a valuable and needed service,
and gives generously to the local community. We deserve to make a profit.
Why is it that everyone bitches about the fear of 'paying too much for a
car', but never about paying too much for groceries, the electric bill,
medical expenses, etc....? Funny story - one of the worst grinders I ever
sold a truck to was a local doctor, a guy with all the money to buy. He
chopped us $250 into holdback, a deal that I was shocked to see our GM take.
Wonder how the good doctor would react to my negotiating the cost of his
services. "Hey Doc, I'll counter-offer your $5,000 with $3,000 on that gall
bladder operation"!
> By the way, top posting screws up the continuity of the conversation.
>
Hey, I'm flexible. Is this better?
(snip)
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
"RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g45880la5mp78jnahd154d30ha9gkpnad7@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:10:03 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>
> >Correct. But it's not just the money.
>
> Do you enjoy taking extra money from elderly or naive people who are
> not good negotiators or who believe you when you 'negotiate'?
>
If a customer pays top dollar, e.g. over retail book value, for a vehicle
and is completely satisfied with the vehicle and the purchase, is that not a
good deal? Would you consider that "taking extra money"? I wouldn't, nor
would the customer. BTW, some of the toughest negotiators are the elderly
customers I deal with. I enjoy helping customers find the right vehicle for
their needs. I enjoy coming to terms on a price that a customer is happy
with, whether or not you or anyone else thinks they paid too much.
I offer no apologies for selling vehicles at a profit. We do not take
unfair advantage of demented or retarded customers. The dealership I work
for employs 17 people at good wages, offers a valuable and needed service,
and gives generously to the local community. We deserve to make a profit.
Why is it that everyone bitches about the fear of 'paying too much for a
car', but never about paying too much for groceries, the electric bill,
medical expenses, etc....? Funny story - one of the worst grinders I ever
sold a truck to was a local doctor, a guy with all the money to buy. He
chopped us $250 into holdback, a deal that I was shocked to see our GM take.
Wonder how the good doctor would react to my negotiating the cost of his
services. "Hey Doc, I'll counter-offer your $5,000 with $3,000 on that gall
bladder operation"!
> By the way, top posting screws up the continuity of the conversation.
>
Hey, I'm flexible. Is this better?
(snip)
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
"RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g45880la5mp78jnahd154d30ha9gkpnad7@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:10:03 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>
> >Correct. But it's not just the money.
>
> Do you enjoy taking extra money from elderly or naive people who are
> not good negotiators or who believe you when you 'negotiate'?
>
If a customer pays top dollar, e.g. over retail book value, for a vehicle
and is completely satisfied with the vehicle and the purchase, is that not a
good deal? Would you consider that "taking extra money"? I wouldn't, nor
would the customer. BTW, some of the toughest negotiators are the elderly
customers I deal with. I enjoy helping customers find the right vehicle for
their needs. I enjoy coming to terms on a price that a customer is happy
with, whether or not you or anyone else thinks they paid too much.
I offer no apologies for selling vehicles at a profit. We do not take
unfair advantage of demented or retarded customers. The dealership I work
for employs 17 people at good wages, offers a valuable and needed service,
and gives generously to the local community. We deserve to make a profit.
Why is it that everyone bitches about the fear of 'paying too much for a
car', but never about paying too much for groceries, the electric bill,
medical expenses, etc....? Funny story - one of the worst grinders I ever
sold a truck to was a local doctor, a guy with all the money to buy. He
chopped us $250 into holdback, a deal that I was shocked to see our GM take.
Wonder how the good doctor would react to my negotiating the cost of his
services. "Hey Doc, I'll counter-offer your $5,000 with $3,000 on that gall
bladder operation"!
> By the way, top posting screws up the continuity of the conversation.
>
Hey, I'm flexible. Is this better?
(snip)
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
"RJ" <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g45880la5mp78jnahd154d30ha9gkpnad7@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:10:03 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
> <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:
>
> >Correct. But it's not just the money.
>
> Do you enjoy taking extra money from elderly or naive people who are
> not good negotiators or who believe you when you 'negotiate'?
>
If a customer pays top dollar, e.g. over retail book value, for a vehicle
and is completely satisfied with the vehicle and the purchase, is that not a
good deal? Would you consider that "taking extra money"? I wouldn't, nor
would the customer. BTW, some of the toughest negotiators are the elderly
customers I deal with. I enjoy helping customers find the right vehicle for
their needs. I enjoy coming to terms on a price that a customer is happy
with, whether or not you or anyone else thinks they paid too much.
I offer no apologies for selling vehicles at a profit. We do not take
unfair advantage of demented or retarded customers. The dealership I work
for employs 17 people at good wages, offers a valuable and needed service,
and gives generously to the local community. We deserve to make a profit.
Why is it that everyone bitches about the fear of 'paying too much for a
car', but never about paying too much for groceries, the electric bill,
medical expenses, etc....? Funny story - one of the worst grinders I ever
sold a truck to was a local doctor, a guy with all the money to buy. He
chopped us $250 into holdback, a deal that I was shocked to see our GM take.
Wonder how the good doctor would react to my negotiating the cost of his
services. "Hey Doc, I'll counter-offer your $5,000 with $3,000 on that gall
bladder operation"!
> By the way, top posting screws up the continuity of the conversation.
>
Hey, I'm flexible. Is this better?
(snip)
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: question on jeep dealer refusing service.
"What the dealer makes" (dealer invoice minus holdback) can be determined
with a little research on the internet. The dealer needs to make a profit,
so negotiate with that in mind. If you have a trade-in, that's another
point of negotiation. If you're financing, rate can be negotiated. Like it
or not, you'll get your best deal by negotiating. Go in with a positive
attitude. It's not game-playing, confrontation and personal attacks. It's
business.
What does the manufacturer make? It doesn't really matter. The dealer
can't negotiate price with DC, so why worry about something you have no
control over?
Buying a car is an emotional experience. As best as you can, remain
emotionally detached and ready to walk away. It's kind of like playing
poker. There is a basis for negotiation.
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:i0m880dom3v00f8hf04j1je3jcf9uqlpq8@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:07:16 -0400, "cooper" <noone@home.com> wrote:
>
> >My negotiation skills suck. I don't think I _have_ to be skilled in
> >negotiating to spend thousands of my dollars at a dealership. I'm one of
> >those people that just can't seem to say what they need to say, or have
the
> >directness needed to be a 'negotiator'. I HATE trying to buy a new car,
and
> >it's why I passed on an 02 and bought my 94 YJ from a private sale.
>
> The biggest problem with negotiating is not knowing what to negotiate.
> How in the hell do we know what the dealer makes, what the
> manufacturer makes and what to negotiate.
>
> Negotiating for a car is having an emotional argument with yourself.
> How bad do you want the car? That's no basis for negotiation.
with a little research on the internet. The dealer needs to make a profit,
so negotiate with that in mind. If you have a trade-in, that's another
point of negotiation. If you're financing, rate can be negotiated. Like it
or not, you'll get your best deal by negotiating. Go in with a positive
attitude. It's not game-playing, confrontation and personal attacks. It's
business.
What does the manufacturer make? It doesn't really matter. The dealer
can't negotiate price with DC, so why worry about something you have no
control over?
Buying a car is an emotional experience. As best as you can, remain
emotionally detached and ready to walk away. It's kind of like playing
poker. There is a basis for negotiation.
Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O
"Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:i0m880dom3v00f8hf04j1je3jcf9uqlpq8@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:07:16 -0400, "cooper" <noone@home.com> wrote:
>
> >My negotiation skills suck. I don't think I _have_ to be skilled in
> >negotiating to spend thousands of my dollars at a dealership. I'm one of
> >those people that just can't seem to say what they need to say, or have
the
> >directness needed to be a 'negotiator'. I HATE trying to buy a new car,
and
> >it's why I passed on an 02 and bought my 94 YJ from a private sale.
>
> The biggest problem with negotiating is not knowing what to negotiate.
> How in the hell do we know what the dealer makes, what the
> manufacturer makes and what to negotiate.
>
> Negotiating for a car is having an emotional argument with yourself.
> How bad do you want the car? That's no basis for negotiation.
