OT New Orleans
#191
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I give Nagin credit for saving a lot of lives with his no-nonsense
run-up evacuation. He deserves kudos for that part, but he either
needed help from a prepared and empowered staff or he needed to spend
less time time with a camera in his face while he took care of the
underlying details. If an analytical critique of this whole goat rope
is ever published, I think that the problem was started by local
failure to intigate actions other than evacuation and compounded at
every level above that.
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:24:49 UTC "SoK66" <Nospam@SoK.net> wrote:
> I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
> local leadership completely dropped the ball.
>
> Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
> roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
> had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
> Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
> anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
> documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
> Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
> Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
> than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
> there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
>
> Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
> like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
> happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
> has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
> Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
> his efforts last year in Florida.
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
> >
> > <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> > news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
> >>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >>>>>need
> >>>>>for
> >>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>>>planning,
> >>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>>>
> >>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >>>
> >>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
> >>>re-read
> >>>my post.
> >>
> >> You wrote:
> >>
> >> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> >> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
> >>
> >> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> >> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> >> that the only named government was the federal government.
> >>
> >
> > Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> > the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> > state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> > federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> > but not delivered.
> >
> >>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >>>
> >>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >>>dying of thirst were lying?
> >>
> >> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> >> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> >> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
> >>
> >> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> >> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> >> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> >> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> >> hell of head start.
> >>
> >> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> >> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> >> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> >> accomplish.
> >
> > You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> > the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> > of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> > to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
run-up evacuation. He deserves kudos for that part, but he either
needed help from a prepared and empowered staff or he needed to spend
less time time with a camera in his face while he took care of the
underlying details. If an analytical critique of this whole goat rope
is ever published, I think that the problem was started by local
failure to intigate actions other than evacuation and compounded at
every level above that.
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:24:49 UTC "SoK66" <Nospam@SoK.net> wrote:
> I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
> local leadership completely dropped the ball.
>
> Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
> roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
> had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
> Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
> anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
> documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
> Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
> Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
> than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
> there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
>
> Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
> like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
> happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
> has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
> Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
> his efforts last year in Florida.
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
> >
> > <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> > news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
> >>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >>>>>need
> >>>>>for
> >>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>>>planning,
> >>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>>>
> >>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >>>
> >>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
> >>>re-read
> >>>my post.
> >>
> >> You wrote:
> >>
> >> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> >> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
> >>
> >> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> >> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> >> that the only named government was the federal government.
> >>
> >
> > Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> > the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> > state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> > federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> > but not delivered.
> >
> >>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >>>
> >>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >>>dying of thirst were lying?
> >>
> >> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> >> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> >> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
> >>
> >> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> >> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> >> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> >> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> >> hell of head start.
> >>
> >> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> >> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> >> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> >> accomplish.
> >
> > You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> > the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> > of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> > to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
#192
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I give Nagin credit for saving a lot of lives with his no-nonsense
run-up evacuation. He deserves kudos for that part, but he either
needed help from a prepared and empowered staff or he needed to spend
less time time with a camera in his face while he took care of the
underlying details. If an analytical critique of this whole goat rope
is ever published, I think that the problem was started by local
failure to intigate actions other than evacuation and compounded at
every level above that.
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:24:49 UTC "SoK66" <Nospam@SoK.net> wrote:
> I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
> local leadership completely dropped the ball.
>
> Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
> roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
> had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
> Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
> anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
> documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
> Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
> Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
> than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
> there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
>
> Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
> like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
> happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
> has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
> Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
> his efforts last year in Florida.
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
> >
> > <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> > news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
> >>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >>>>>need
> >>>>>for
> >>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>>>planning,
> >>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>>>
> >>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >>>
> >>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
> >>>re-read
> >>>my post.
> >>
> >> You wrote:
> >>
> >> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> >> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
> >>
> >> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> >> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> >> that the only named government was the federal government.
> >>
> >
> > Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> > the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> > state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> > federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> > but not delivered.
> >
> >>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >>>
> >>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >>>dying of thirst were lying?
> >>
> >> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> >> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> >> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
> >>
> >> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> >> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> >> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> >> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> >> hell of head start.
> >>
> >> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> >> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> >> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> >> accomplish.
> >
> > You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> > the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> > of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> > to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
run-up evacuation. He deserves kudos for that part, but he either
needed help from a prepared and empowered staff or he needed to spend
less time time with a camera in his face while he took care of the
underlying details. If an analytical critique of this whole goat rope
is ever published, I think that the problem was started by local
failure to intigate actions other than evacuation and compounded at
every level above that.
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:24:49 UTC "SoK66" <Nospam@SoK.net> wrote:
> I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
> local leadership completely dropped the ball.
>
> Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
> roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
> had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
> Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
> anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
> documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
> Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
> Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
> than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
> there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
>
> Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
> like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
> happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
> has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
> Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
> his efforts last year in Florida.
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
> >
> > <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> > news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
> >>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >>>>>need
> >>>>>for
> >>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>>>planning,
> >>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>>>
> >>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >>>
> >>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
> >>>re-read
> >>>my post.
> >>
> >> You wrote:
> >>
> >> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> >> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
> >>
> >> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> >> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> >> that the only named government was the federal government.
> >>
> >
> > Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> > the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> > state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> > federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> > but not delivered.
> >
> >>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >>>
> >>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >>>dying of thirst were lying?
> >>
> >> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> >> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> >> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
> >>
> >> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> >> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> >> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> >> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> >> hell of head start.
> >>
> >> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> >> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> >> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> >> accomplish.
> >
> > You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> > the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> > of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> > to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
#193
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I give Nagin credit for saving a lot of lives with his no-nonsense
run-up evacuation. He deserves kudos for that part, but he either
needed help from a prepared and empowered staff or he needed to spend
less time time with a camera in his face while he took care of the
underlying details. If an analytical critique of this whole goat rope
is ever published, I think that the problem was started by local
failure to intigate actions other than evacuation and compounded at
every level above that.
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:24:49 UTC "SoK66" <Nospam@SoK.net> wrote:
> I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
> local leadership completely dropped the ball.
>
> Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
> roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
> had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
> Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
> anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
> documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
> Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
> Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
> than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
> there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
>
> Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
> like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
> happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
> has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
> Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
> his efforts last year in Florida.
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
> >
> > <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> > news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
> >>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >>>>>need
> >>>>>for
> >>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>>>planning,
> >>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>>>
> >>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >>>
> >>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
> >>>re-read
> >>>my post.
> >>
> >> You wrote:
> >>
> >> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> >> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
> >>
> >> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> >> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> >> that the only named government was the federal government.
> >>
> >
> > Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> > the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> > state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> > federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> > but not delivered.
> >
> >>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >>>
> >>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >>>dying of thirst were lying?
> >>
> >> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> >> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> >> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
> >>
> >> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> >> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> >> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> >> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> >> hell of head start.
> >>
> >> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> >> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> >> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> >> accomplish.
> >
> > You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> > the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> > of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> > to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
run-up evacuation. He deserves kudos for that part, but he either
needed help from a prepared and empowered staff or he needed to spend
less time time with a camera in his face while he took care of the
underlying details. If an analytical critique of this whole goat rope
is ever published, I think that the problem was started by local
failure to intigate actions other than evacuation and compounded at
every level above that.
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:24:49 UTC "SoK66" <Nospam@SoK.net> wrote:
> I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
> local leadership completely dropped the ball.
>
> Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
> roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
> had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
> Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
> anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
> documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
> Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
> Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
> than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
> there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
>
> Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
> like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
> happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
> has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
> Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
> his efforts last year in Florida.
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
> >
> > <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> > news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
> >>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >>>>>need
> >>>>>for
> >>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>>>planning,
> >>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>>>
> >>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >>>
> >>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
> >>>re-read
> >>>my post.
> >>
> >> You wrote:
> >>
> >> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> >> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> >> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
> >>
> >> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> >> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> >> that the only named government was the federal government.
> >>
> >
> > Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> > the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> > state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> > federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> > but not delivered.
> >
> >>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >>>
> >>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >>>dying of thirst were lying?
> >>
> >> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> >> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> >> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
> >>
> >> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> >> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> >> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> >> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> >> hell of head start.
> >>
> >> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> >> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> >> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> >> accomplish.
> >
> > You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> > the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> > of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> > to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
> >
>
>
--
Will Honea
#194
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
In article <QlGUe.2679$P34.2666@okepread07>,
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:
>
> They are also responsible for the screwed up mess that is our refining
> industry. Thankfully the fed has now pulled head out of **** and lifted
> many of the regulations and red-tape. Still though it will take years
> to build up the capacity we actually need.
By then there won't be enough oil to to run the refineries.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:
>
> They are also responsible for the screwed up mess that is our refining
> industry. Thankfully the fed has now pulled head out of **** and lifted
> many of the regulations and red-tape. Still though it will take years
> to build up the capacity we actually need.
By then there won't be enough oil to to run the refineries.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
#195
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
In article <QlGUe.2679$P34.2666@okepread07>,
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:
>
> They are also responsible for the screwed up mess that is our refining
> industry. Thankfully the fed has now pulled head out of **** and lifted
> many of the regulations and red-tape. Still though it will take years
> to build up the capacity we actually need.
By then there won't be enough oil to to run the refineries.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:
>
> They are also responsible for the screwed up mess that is our refining
> industry. Thankfully the fed has now pulled head out of **** and lifted
> many of the regulations and red-tape. Still though it will take years
> to build up the capacity we actually need.
By then there won't be enough oil to to run the refineries.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
#196
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
In article <QlGUe.2679$P34.2666@okepread07>,
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:
>
> They are also responsible for the screwed up mess that is our refining
> industry. Thankfully the fed has now pulled head out of **** and lifted
> many of the regulations and red-tape. Still though it will take years
> to build up the capacity we actually need.
By then there won't be enough oil to to run the refineries.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:
>
> They are also responsible for the screwed up mess that is our refining
> industry. Thankfully the fed has now pulled head out of **** and lifted
> many of the regulations and red-tape. Still though it will take years
> to build up the capacity we actually need.
By then there won't be enough oil to to run the refineries.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
#197
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
In article <QlGUe.2679$P34.2666@okepread07>,
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:
>
> They are also responsible for the screwed up mess that is our refining
> industry. Thankfully the fed has now pulled head out of **** and lifted
> many of the regulations and red-tape. Still though it will take years
> to build up the capacity we actually need.
By then there won't be enough oil to to run the refineries.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:
>
> They are also responsible for the screwed up mess that is our refining
> industry. Thankfully the fed has now pulled head out of **** and lifted
> many of the regulations and red-tape. Still though it will take years
> to build up the capacity we actually need.
By then there won't be enough oil to to run the refineries.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
#198
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
In article <KtAUe.106041$G8.65843@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> ,
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> So what's the crack on New Orleans ?
Here's the short answer(s):
The mayor of NO delayed in ordering an evacutation, then failed to
provide the means to evacuate, by not using the many buses now flooded.
The mayor also sent thousands of people to the Superdome & the
convention center without providing sufficient personnel & materiel
resources for relief.
The governor of Louisiana failed to:
Call up Nat'l Guard troops to aid in pre-hurricane evacuation &
post-hurricane relief, waiting until Thursday to request the 40,000 that
were needed the day after. Actually, they may not have needed that many
if they'd been on the ball before the storm landed.
Invoke a multi-state aid compact to draw resources from other states
(Texas being the only one not affected by the storm).
There are conflicting reports on whether the governor made a timely
declaration of a state of emergency.
Both parties failed to communicate with each other, the public, and the
Federal government.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> So what's the crack on New Orleans ?
Here's the short answer(s):
The mayor of NO delayed in ordering an evacutation, then failed to
provide the means to evacuate, by not using the many buses now flooded.
The mayor also sent thousands of people to the Superdome & the
convention center without providing sufficient personnel & materiel
resources for relief.
The governor of Louisiana failed to:
Call up Nat'l Guard troops to aid in pre-hurricane evacuation &
post-hurricane relief, waiting until Thursday to request the 40,000 that
were needed the day after. Actually, they may not have needed that many
if they'd been on the ball before the storm landed.
Invoke a multi-state aid compact to draw resources from other states
(Texas being the only one not affected by the storm).
There are conflicting reports on whether the governor made a timely
declaration of a state of emergency.
Both parties failed to communicate with each other, the public, and the
Federal government.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
#199
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
In article <KtAUe.106041$G8.65843@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> ,
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> So what's the crack on New Orleans ?
Here's the short answer(s):
The mayor of NO delayed in ordering an evacutation, then failed to
provide the means to evacuate, by not using the many buses now flooded.
The mayor also sent thousands of people to the Superdome & the
convention center without providing sufficient personnel & materiel
resources for relief.
The governor of Louisiana failed to:
Call up Nat'l Guard troops to aid in pre-hurricane evacuation &
post-hurricane relief, waiting until Thursday to request the 40,000 that
were needed the day after. Actually, they may not have needed that many
if they'd been on the ball before the storm landed.
Invoke a multi-state aid compact to draw resources from other states
(Texas being the only one not affected by the storm).
There are conflicting reports on whether the governor made a timely
declaration of a state of emergency.
Both parties failed to communicate with each other, the public, and the
Federal government.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> So what's the crack on New Orleans ?
Here's the short answer(s):
The mayor of NO delayed in ordering an evacutation, then failed to
provide the means to evacuate, by not using the many buses now flooded.
The mayor also sent thousands of people to the Superdome & the
convention center without providing sufficient personnel & materiel
resources for relief.
The governor of Louisiana failed to:
Call up Nat'l Guard troops to aid in pre-hurricane evacuation &
post-hurricane relief, waiting until Thursday to request the 40,000 that
were needed the day after. Actually, they may not have needed that many
if they'd been on the ball before the storm landed.
Invoke a multi-state aid compact to draw resources from other states
(Texas being the only one not affected by the storm).
There are conflicting reports on whether the governor made a timely
declaration of a state of emergency.
Both parties failed to communicate with each other, the public, and the
Federal government.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
#200
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
In article <KtAUe.106041$G8.65843@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> ,
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> So what's the crack on New Orleans ?
Here's the short answer(s):
The mayor of NO delayed in ordering an evacutation, then failed to
provide the means to evacuate, by not using the many buses now flooded.
The mayor also sent thousands of people to the Superdome & the
convention center without providing sufficient personnel & materiel
resources for relief.
The governor of Louisiana failed to:
Call up Nat'l Guard troops to aid in pre-hurricane evacuation &
post-hurricane relief, waiting until Thursday to request the 40,000 that
were needed the day after. Actually, they may not have needed that many
if they'd been on the ball before the storm landed.
Invoke a multi-state aid compact to draw resources from other states
(Texas being the only one not affected by the storm).
There are conflicting reports on whether the governor made a timely
declaration of a state of emergency.
Both parties failed to communicate with each other, the public, and the
Federal government.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> So what's the crack on New Orleans ?
Here's the short answer(s):
The mayor of NO delayed in ordering an evacutation, then failed to
provide the means to evacuate, by not using the many buses now flooded.
The mayor also sent thousands of people to the Superdome & the
convention center without providing sufficient personnel & materiel
resources for relief.
The governor of Louisiana failed to:
Call up Nat'l Guard troops to aid in pre-hurricane evacuation &
post-hurricane relief, waiting until Thursday to request the 40,000 that
were needed the day after. Actually, they may not have needed that many
if they'd been on the ball before the storm landed.
Invoke a multi-state aid compact to draw resources from other states
(Texas being the only one not affected by the storm).
There are conflicting reports on whether the governor made a timely
declaration of a state of emergency.
Both parties failed to communicate with each other, the public, and the
Federal government.
B
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.