OT New Orleans
#141
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I should live long enough to get some of it back. As an
employer(?), you should know we pay both sides of that tax.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> In that case, will you give your Social Security benefits back?
employer(?), you should know we pay both sides of that tax.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> In that case, will you give your Social Security benefits back?
#142
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:36:09 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
>Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
>the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
>state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for federal
>response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed but not
>delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
>You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for the
>Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation of
>the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem to run
>out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
I'll admit that the mainstream press has been more interested in
smearing the Feds than reporting the facts. This New York Times
article contains the snippet of interest:
"While the situation in the Superdome was nightmarish and not
satisfactory to anyone involved," Mr. Knocke said, "it was not a
life-and-death situation, and we had to focus our priorities where we
could."
Even so, he said relief crews delivered seven trailers filled with
water and ready-to-eat meals to the Superdome before the storm hit on
Aug. 29, along with another seven trailers on Aug. 30."
<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
(you'll probably have to paste the link together>
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
>Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
>the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
>state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for federal
>response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed but not
>delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
>You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for the
>Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation of
>the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem to run
>out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
I'll admit that the mainstream press has been more interested in
smearing the Feds than reporting the facts. This New York Times
article contains the snippet of interest:
"While the situation in the Superdome was nightmarish and not
satisfactory to anyone involved," Mr. Knocke said, "it was not a
life-and-death situation, and we had to focus our priorities where we
could."
Even so, he said relief crews delivered seven trailers filled with
water and ready-to-eat meals to the Superdome before the storm hit on
Aug. 29, along with another seven trailers on Aug. 30."
<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
(you'll probably have to paste the link together>
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
#143
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:36:09 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
>Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
>the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
>state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for federal
>response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed but not
>delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
>You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for the
>Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation of
>the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem to run
>out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
I'll admit that the mainstream press has been more interested in
smearing the Feds than reporting the facts. This New York Times
article contains the snippet of interest:
"While the situation in the Superdome was nightmarish and not
satisfactory to anyone involved," Mr. Knocke said, "it was not a
life-and-death situation, and we had to focus our priorities where we
could."
Even so, he said relief crews delivered seven trailers filled with
water and ready-to-eat meals to the Superdome before the storm hit on
Aug. 29, along with another seven trailers on Aug. 30."
<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
(you'll probably have to paste the link together>
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
>Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
>the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
>state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for federal
>response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed but not
>delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
>You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for the
>Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation of
>the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem to run
>out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
I'll admit that the mainstream press has been more interested in
smearing the Feds than reporting the facts. This New York Times
article contains the snippet of interest:
"While the situation in the Superdome was nightmarish and not
satisfactory to anyone involved," Mr. Knocke said, "it was not a
life-and-death situation, and we had to focus our priorities where we
could."
Even so, he said relief crews delivered seven trailers filled with
water and ready-to-eat meals to the Superdome before the storm hit on
Aug. 29, along with another seven trailers on Aug. 30."
<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
(you'll probably have to paste the link together>
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
#144
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:36:09 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
>Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
>the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
>state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for federal
>response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed but not
>delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
>You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for the
>Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation of
>the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem to run
>out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
I'll admit that the mainstream press has been more interested in
smearing the Feds than reporting the facts. This New York Times
article contains the snippet of interest:
"While the situation in the Superdome was nightmarish and not
satisfactory to anyone involved," Mr. Knocke said, "it was not a
life-and-death situation, and we had to focus our priorities where we
could."
Even so, he said relief crews delivered seven trailers filled with
water and ready-to-eat meals to the Superdome before the storm hit on
Aug. 29, along with another seven trailers on Aug. 30."
<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
(you'll probably have to paste the link together>
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
>Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
>the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
>state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for federal
>response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed but not
>delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
>You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for the
>Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation of
>the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem to run
>out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
I'll admit that the mainstream press has been more interested in
smearing the Feds than reporting the facts. This New York Times
article contains the snippet of interest:
"While the situation in the Superdome was nightmarish and not
satisfactory to anyone involved," Mr. Knocke said, "it was not a
life-and-death situation, and we had to focus our priorities where we
could."
Even so, he said relief crews delivered seven trailers filled with
water and ready-to-eat meals to the Superdome before the storm hit on
Aug. 29, along with another seven trailers on Aug. 30."
<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
(you'll probably have to paste the link together>
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
#145
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:36:09 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
>Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
>the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
>state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for federal
>response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed but not
>delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
>You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for the
>Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation of
>the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem to run
>out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
I'll admit that the mainstream press has been more interested in
smearing the Feds than reporting the facts. This New York Times
article contains the snippet of interest:
"While the situation in the Superdome was nightmarish and not
satisfactory to anyone involved," Mr. Knocke said, "it was not a
life-and-death situation, and we had to focus our priorities where we
could."
Even so, he said relief crews delivered seven trailers filled with
water and ready-to-eat meals to the Superdome before the storm hit on
Aug. 29, along with another seven trailers on Aug. 30."
<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
(you'll probably have to paste the link together>
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
>Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
>the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
>state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for federal
>response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed but not
>delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
>You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for the
>Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation of
>the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem to run
>out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
I'll admit that the mainstream press has been more interested in
smearing the Feds than reporting the facts. This New York Times
article contains the snippet of interest:
"While the situation in the Superdome was nightmarish and not
satisfactory to anyone involved," Mr. Knocke said, "it was not a
life-and-death situation, and we had to focus our priorities where we
could."
Even so, he said relief crews delivered seven trailers filled with
water and ready-to-eat meals to the Superdome before the storm hit on
Aug. 29, along with another seven trailers on Aug. 30."
<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/politics/08chertoff.html?ei=5090&en=373053edcb4fff05&ex=128 3832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnn lx=1126182417-fXi4vRtafGCy/xuouKwtfw>
(you'll probably have to paste the link together>
-- msosborn at msosborn dot com
#146
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
Well, we know it happens with just a simple excuse like the Bulls
or Lakers win.
Let's hope we can clean our government from those that lessen our
morals, such as Kalifornia's court overturn of an eighty percent
peoples' vote not to let same --- marry.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Detroit in many ways is similar to N.O., a lot of corruption and poor
> leadership, less so now than in the Coleman Young days. I live about 45
> minutes from there. Surprisingly, during the '03 blackout, we expected mass
> lootings and breakdown of order, but it never happened.
>
> Anyway, in case I will move to my cabin in the northeastern lower peninsula.
> I have all my personal records in an emergency file in case I need to take
> my family in a hurry.
or Lakers win.
Let's hope we can clean our government from those that lessen our
morals, such as Kalifornia's court overturn of an eighty percent
peoples' vote not to let same --- marry.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Detroit in many ways is similar to N.O., a lot of corruption and poor
> leadership, less so now than in the Coleman Young days. I live about 45
> minutes from there. Surprisingly, during the '03 blackout, we expected mass
> lootings and breakdown of order, but it never happened.
>
> Anyway, in case I will move to my cabin in the northeastern lower peninsula.
> I have all my personal records in an emergency file in case I need to take
> my family in a hurry.
#147
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
Well, we know it happens with just a simple excuse like the Bulls
or Lakers win.
Let's hope we can clean our government from those that lessen our
morals, such as Kalifornia's court overturn of an eighty percent
peoples' vote not to let same --- marry.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Detroit in many ways is similar to N.O., a lot of corruption and poor
> leadership, less so now than in the Coleman Young days. I live about 45
> minutes from there. Surprisingly, during the '03 blackout, we expected mass
> lootings and breakdown of order, but it never happened.
>
> Anyway, in case I will move to my cabin in the northeastern lower peninsula.
> I have all my personal records in an emergency file in case I need to take
> my family in a hurry.
or Lakers win.
Let's hope we can clean our government from those that lessen our
morals, such as Kalifornia's court overturn of an eighty percent
peoples' vote not to let same --- marry.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Detroit in many ways is similar to N.O., a lot of corruption and poor
> leadership, less so now than in the Coleman Young days. I live about 45
> minutes from there. Surprisingly, during the '03 blackout, we expected mass
> lootings and breakdown of order, but it never happened.
>
> Anyway, in case I will move to my cabin in the northeastern lower peninsula.
> I have all my personal records in an emergency file in case I need to take
> my family in a hurry.
#148
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
Well, we know it happens with just a simple excuse like the Bulls
or Lakers win.
Let's hope we can clean our government from those that lessen our
morals, such as Kalifornia's court overturn of an eighty percent
peoples' vote not to let same --- marry.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Detroit in many ways is similar to N.O., a lot of corruption and poor
> leadership, less so now than in the Coleman Young days. I live about 45
> minutes from there. Surprisingly, during the '03 blackout, we expected mass
> lootings and breakdown of order, but it never happened.
>
> Anyway, in case I will move to my cabin in the northeastern lower peninsula.
> I have all my personal records in an emergency file in case I need to take
> my family in a hurry.
or Lakers win.
Let's hope we can clean our government from those that lessen our
morals, such as Kalifornia's court overturn of an eighty percent
peoples' vote not to let same --- marry.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Detroit in many ways is similar to N.O., a lot of corruption and poor
> leadership, less so now than in the Coleman Young days. I live about 45
> minutes from there. Surprisingly, during the '03 blackout, we expected mass
> lootings and breakdown of order, but it never happened.
>
> Anyway, in case I will move to my cabin in the northeastern lower peninsula.
> I have all my personal records in an emergency file in case I need to take
> my family in a hurry.
#149
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
Well, we know it happens with just a simple excuse like the Bulls
or Lakers win.
Let's hope we can clean our government from those that lessen our
morals, such as Kalifornia's court overturn of an eighty percent
peoples' vote not to let same --- marry.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Detroit in many ways is similar to N.O., a lot of corruption and poor
> leadership, less so now than in the Coleman Young days. I live about 45
> minutes from there. Surprisingly, during the '03 blackout, we expected mass
> lootings and breakdown of order, but it never happened.
>
> Anyway, in case I will move to my cabin in the northeastern lower peninsula.
> I have all my personal records in an emergency file in case I need to take
> my family in a hurry.
or Lakers win.
Let's hope we can clean our government from those that lessen our
morals, such as Kalifornia's court overturn of an eighty percent
peoples' vote not to let same --- marry.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Detroit in many ways is similar to N.O., a lot of corruption and poor
> leadership, less so now than in the Coleman Young days. I live about 45
> minutes from there. Surprisingly, during the '03 blackout, we expected mass
> lootings and breakdown of order, but it never happened.
>
> Anyway, in case I will move to my cabin in the northeastern lower peninsula.
> I have all my personal records in an emergency file in case I need to take
> my family in a hurry.
#150
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
local leadership completely dropped the ball.
Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
his efforts last year in Florida.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
>
> <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>>>>>need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
> Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> but not delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
> You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
local leadership completely dropped the ball.
Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
his efforts last year in Florida.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
>
> <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>>>>>need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
> Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> but not delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
> You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>