OT New Orleans
#151
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
local leadership completely dropped the ball.
Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
his efforts last year in Florida.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
>
> <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>>>>>need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
> Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> but not delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
> You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
local leadership completely dropped the ball.
Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
his efforts last year in Florida.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
>
> <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>>>>>need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
> Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> but not delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
> You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
#152
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
local leadership completely dropped the ball.
Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
his efforts last year in Florida.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
>
> <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>>>>>need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
> Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> but not delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
> You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
local leadership completely dropped the ball.
Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
his efforts last year in Florida.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
>
> <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>>>>>need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
> Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> but not delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
> You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
#153
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I t seems fairly obvious now that between Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco,
local leadership completely dropped the ball.
Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
his efforts last year in Florida.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
>
> <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>>>>>need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
> Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> but not delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
> You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
local leadership completely dropped the ball.
Their efforts to evacuate last year before Ivan hit the Gulf Coast were
roundly criticised for the exact same reasons as what just happened. They
had no plan to evacuate the immobile folks that ended up trapped in the
Dome, etc. Last year they just got lucky, and looks like they didn't do
anything at all in the interveneing time period. While they have a well
documented evacuation plan for New Orleans, they never actually deployed it.
Thats why the busses were flooded in a lot right next to the Dome, etc.
Worse, the NO cops bailed, the NO Fire Dept evacuated THEMSELVES, rather
than staying to help, etc. That the Feds were slow to respond I think
there's no question, but the locals trully screwed the dog.
Local efforst are expected to carry the first few days of natural disaters
like this, while Federal assets are organized & deployed. That's what
happened last year when 4 hurricanes in succession hit Florida. That State
has a much better plan than Louisiana, and it showed. Funny that the same
Michael Brown who just got made the scape-goat of Katrinma was hailed for
his efforts last year in Florida.
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:dYednRiOQt0UFb7eRVn-jw@comcast.com...
>
> <Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> news:jop6i19bn372iitpvpvrprckrhuevvblmo@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>>>news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>>>>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>>>>>need
>>>>>for
>>>>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
>>>>>planning,
>>>>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
>>>>
>>>> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
>>>> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
>>>> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
>>>> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
>>>> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
>>>> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
>>>
>>>Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please
>>>re-read
>>>my post.
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
>> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
>> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
>> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>>
>> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
>> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
>> that the only named government was the federal government.
>>
>
> Then I clarify: Failures of every level of government. Local to recognize
> the what needed to be done to protect the citizens living there, local and
> state for competent evacuation planning, and lacking motivation for
> federal response when it was clear a strong federal response was needed
> but not delivered.
>
>>>> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
>>>> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
>>>
>>>According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
>>>dying of thirst were lying?
>>
>> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
>> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
>> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>>
>> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
>> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
>> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
>> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
>> hell of head start.
>>
>> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
>> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
>> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
>> accomplish.
>
> You are still basing this assertion on a statement from a spokesman for
> the Dept of Homeland Security. I would be interested to see a confirmation
> of the assertion, can you cite one? If it is true, the supplies did seem
> to run out rather quickly and slow to be replenished.
>
#154
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:20:45 UTC Matt Osborn wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
> >>>for
> >>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>planning,
> >>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>
> >> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >
> >Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please re-read
> >my post.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>
> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> that the only named government was the federal government.
>
> >> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >
> >According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >dying of thirst were lying?
>
> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>
> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> hell of head start.
>
> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> accomplish.
And then the CoonAss authorities refused the Red Cross permission to
supply more food/water to the Superdome/Convention Centers on the
logical assumption that if there were supplies then more people would
come. The logic of that is plain for any fool to see!
Of course, those ignorant folks in MS took the attitude that if you
got help to supply, then take it where ever you're brave/foolish
enough to go. One segment of some news program showed the SBC trucks
in the middle of the MS mess on Wednesday - they had to clear some of
the roads themselves to get through or they would have been in further
sooner.
It takes a finite amount of time for each level of a bureaucracy to
respond even if you follow all their ****-ant rules and procedures -
you ever get a 4-day response to an issue that has to be cleared by a
cabinet level authorization? I doubt it. The rules for survival in a
bureaucracy require that no one at any level take action until the
request for authorization has been passed up to whatever higher level
has defined authority to issue such and then comes back down through
the same channel. It is impossible for a bureaucracy to react
quickly; that's the nature of the beast. That lower levels made bad
decisions and did not initiate requests in a timely manner through
established channels just exacerbated the problems. With the failure
of the communications systems that all bureaucracies depend on, I'm
amazed that things happened as fast as they did in NOLA!
--
Will Honea
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
> >>>for
> >>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>planning,
> >>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>
> >> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >
> >Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please re-read
> >my post.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>
> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> that the only named government was the federal government.
>
> >> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >
> >According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >dying of thirst were lying?
>
> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>
> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> hell of head start.
>
> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> accomplish.
And then the CoonAss authorities refused the Red Cross permission to
supply more food/water to the Superdome/Convention Centers on the
logical assumption that if there were supplies then more people would
come. The logic of that is plain for any fool to see!
Of course, those ignorant folks in MS took the attitude that if you
got help to supply, then take it where ever you're brave/foolish
enough to go. One segment of some news program showed the SBC trucks
in the middle of the MS mess on Wednesday - they had to clear some of
the roads themselves to get through or they would have been in further
sooner.
It takes a finite amount of time for each level of a bureaucracy to
respond even if you follow all their ****-ant rules and procedures -
you ever get a 4-day response to an issue that has to be cleared by a
cabinet level authorization? I doubt it. The rules for survival in a
bureaucracy require that no one at any level take action until the
request for authorization has been passed up to whatever higher level
has defined authority to issue such and then comes back down through
the same channel. It is impossible for a bureaucracy to react
quickly; that's the nature of the beast. That lower levels made bad
decisions and did not initiate requests in a timely manner through
established channels just exacerbated the problems. With the failure
of the communications systems that all bureaucracies depend on, I'm
amazed that things happened as fast as they did in NOLA!
--
Will Honea
#155
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:20:45 UTC Matt Osborn wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
> >>>for
> >>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>planning,
> >>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>
> >> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >
> >Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please re-read
> >my post.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>
> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> that the only named government was the federal government.
>
> >> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >
> >According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >dying of thirst were lying?
>
> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>
> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> hell of head start.
>
> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> accomplish.
And then the CoonAss authorities refused the Red Cross permission to
supply more food/water to the Superdome/Convention Centers on the
logical assumption that if there were supplies then more people would
come. The logic of that is plain for any fool to see!
Of course, those ignorant folks in MS took the attitude that if you
got help to supply, then take it where ever you're brave/foolish
enough to go. One segment of some news program showed the SBC trucks
in the middle of the MS mess on Wednesday - they had to clear some of
the roads themselves to get through or they would have been in further
sooner.
It takes a finite amount of time for each level of a bureaucracy to
respond even if you follow all their ****-ant rules and procedures -
you ever get a 4-day response to an issue that has to be cleared by a
cabinet level authorization? I doubt it. The rules for survival in a
bureaucracy require that no one at any level take action until the
request for authorization has been passed up to whatever higher level
has defined authority to issue such and then comes back down through
the same channel. It is impossible for a bureaucracy to react
quickly; that's the nature of the beast. That lower levels made bad
decisions and did not initiate requests in a timely manner through
established channels just exacerbated the problems. With the failure
of the communications systems that all bureaucracies depend on, I'm
amazed that things happened as fast as they did in NOLA!
--
Will Honea
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
> >>>for
> >>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>planning,
> >>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>
> >> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >
> >Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please re-read
> >my post.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>
> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> that the only named government was the federal government.
>
> >> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >
> >According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >dying of thirst were lying?
>
> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>
> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> hell of head start.
>
> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> accomplish.
And then the CoonAss authorities refused the Red Cross permission to
supply more food/water to the Superdome/Convention Centers on the
logical assumption that if there were supplies then more people would
come. The logic of that is plain for any fool to see!
Of course, those ignorant folks in MS took the attitude that if you
got help to supply, then take it where ever you're brave/foolish
enough to go. One segment of some news program showed the SBC trucks
in the middle of the MS mess on Wednesday - they had to clear some of
the roads themselves to get through or they would have been in further
sooner.
It takes a finite amount of time for each level of a bureaucracy to
respond even if you follow all their ****-ant rules and procedures -
you ever get a 4-day response to an issue that has to be cleared by a
cabinet level authorization? I doubt it. The rules for survival in a
bureaucracy require that no one at any level take action until the
request for authorization has been passed up to whatever higher level
has defined authority to issue such and then comes back down through
the same channel. It is impossible for a bureaucracy to react
quickly; that's the nature of the beast. That lower levels made bad
decisions and did not initiate requests in a timely manner through
established channels just exacerbated the problems. With the failure
of the communications systems that all bureaucracies depend on, I'm
amazed that things happened as fast as they did in NOLA!
--
Will Honea
#156
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:20:45 UTC Matt Osborn wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
> >>>for
> >>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>planning,
> >>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>
> >> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >
> >Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please re-read
> >my post.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>
> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> that the only named government was the federal government.
>
> >> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >
> >According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >dying of thirst were lying?
>
> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>
> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> hell of head start.
>
> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> accomplish.
And then the CoonAss authorities refused the Red Cross permission to
supply more food/water to the Superdome/Convention Centers on the
logical assumption that if there were supplies then more people would
come. The logic of that is plain for any fool to see!
Of course, those ignorant folks in MS took the attitude that if you
got help to supply, then take it where ever you're brave/foolish
enough to go. One segment of some news program showed the SBC trucks
in the middle of the MS mess on Wednesday - they had to clear some of
the roads themselves to get through or they would have been in further
sooner.
It takes a finite amount of time for each level of a bureaucracy to
respond even if you follow all their ****-ant rules and procedures -
you ever get a 4-day response to an issue that has to be cleared by a
cabinet level authorization? I doubt it. The rules for survival in a
bureaucracy require that no one at any level take action until the
request for authorization has been passed up to whatever higher level
has defined authority to issue such and then comes back down through
the same channel. It is impossible for a bureaucracy to react
quickly; that's the nature of the beast. That lower levels made bad
decisions and did not initiate requests in a timely manner through
established channels just exacerbated the problems. With the failure
of the communications systems that all bureaucracies depend on, I'm
amazed that things happened as fast as they did in NOLA!
--
Will Honea
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
> >>>for
> >>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>planning,
> >>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>
> >> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >
> >Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please re-read
> >my post.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>
> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> that the only named government was the federal government.
>
> >> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >
> >According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >dying of thirst were lying?
>
> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>
> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> hell of head start.
>
> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> accomplish.
And then the CoonAss authorities refused the Red Cross permission to
supply more food/water to the Superdome/Convention Centers on the
logical assumption that if there were supplies then more people would
come. The logic of that is plain for any fool to see!
Of course, those ignorant folks in MS took the attitude that if you
got help to supply, then take it where ever you're brave/foolish
enough to go. One segment of some news program showed the SBC trucks
in the middle of the MS mess on Wednesday - they had to clear some of
the roads themselves to get through or they would have been in further
sooner.
It takes a finite amount of time for each level of a bureaucracy to
respond even if you follow all their ****-ant rules and procedures -
you ever get a 4-day response to an issue that has to be cleared by a
cabinet level authorization? I doubt it. The rules for survival in a
bureaucracy require that no one at any level take action until the
request for authorization has been passed up to whatever higher level
has defined authority to issue such and then comes back down through
the same channel. It is impossible for a bureaucracy to react
quickly; that's the nature of the beast. That lower levels made bad
decisions and did not initiate requests in a timely manner through
established channels just exacerbated the problems. With the failure
of the communications systems that all bureaucracies depend on, I'm
amazed that things happened as fast as they did in NOLA!
--
Will Honea
#157
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:20:45 UTC Matt Osborn wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
> >>>for
> >>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>planning,
> >>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>
> >> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >
> >Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please re-read
> >my post.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>
> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> that the only named government was the federal government.
>
> >> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >
> >According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >dying of thirst were lying?
>
> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>
> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> hell of head start.
>
> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> accomplish.
And then the CoonAss authorities refused the Red Cross permission to
supply more food/water to the Superdome/Convention Centers on the
logical assumption that if there were supplies then more people would
come. The logic of that is plain for any fool to see!
Of course, those ignorant folks in MS took the attitude that if you
got help to supply, then take it where ever you're brave/foolish
enough to go. One segment of some news program showed the SBC trucks
in the middle of the MS mess on Wednesday - they had to clear some of
the roads themselves to get through or they would have been in further
sooner.
It takes a finite amount of time for each level of a bureaucracy to
respond even if you follow all their ****-ant rules and procedures -
you ever get a 4-day response to an issue that has to be cleared by a
cabinet level authorization? I doubt it. The rules for survival in a
bureaucracy require that no one at any level take action until the
request for authorization has been passed up to whatever higher level
has defined authority to issue such and then comes back down through
the same channel. It is impossible for a bureaucracy to react
quickly; that's the nature of the beast. That lower levels made bad
decisions and did not initiate requests in a timely manner through
established channels just exacerbated the problems. With the failure
of the communications systems that all bureaucracies depend on, I'm
amazed that things happened as fast as they did in NOLA!
--
Will Honea
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:45:58 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
> >news:ed96i1tle7q5kk3pbmpb22j9etm5vbcsel@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:09:15 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> >> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> >>>culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the need
> >>>for
> >>>building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent evacuation
> >>>planning,
> >>>and the lack of motivation for federal response.
> >>
> >> Building the levees to protect against a cat 5 hurricane are a state
> >> responsibility. I believe the Federal government has been more than
> >> generous in providing assistance in this regard. New Orleans is not,
> >> and should not be, a federal responsibility. In any case, the levees
> >> will not protect against the damage caused by a cat5 hurricane. The
> >> city would have flooded from the rain, even had the levees held.
> >
> >Never said building the levees were a federal responsibility, please re-read
> >my post.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "The failures of government in this disaster aren't recent, they are a
> culmination of the last 30 years or so, inasmuch as recognizing the
> need for building a levee to withstand a Cat 5 storm, competent
> evacuation planning, and the lack of motivation for federal response."
>
> Your post could be reasonably read to imply that fed was responsible.
> I did not (and still do not) understand the intent of your post given
> that the only named government was the federal government.
>
> >> The Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water to the Superdome
> >> the day the hurricane hit and seven more trailers the very next day.
> >
> >According to a DHS spokesman, I suppose the people there who were there
> >dying of thirst were lying?
>
> I don't understand the meaning of this either. Normally I would take
> this as sarcasm, but perhaps you meant something else. You really
> should state what you mean to avoid misunderstandings.
>
> The 'refugees' fled their homes for the Superdome on Monday morning.
> I pointed out that the Feds delivered seven trailers of food and water
> on that very same Monday. If anybody said they were dying of thirst on
> Monday, then yes, I would say they're were lying or else they had a
> hell of head start.
>
> Of course, running seven trailers of food and water into the face of a
> cat 4 hurricane may not seem like much to some, but I was sure
> impressed. It certainly was much more than the locals managed to
> accomplish.
And then the CoonAss authorities refused the Red Cross permission to
supply more food/water to the Superdome/Convention Centers on the
logical assumption that if there were supplies then more people would
come. The logic of that is plain for any fool to see!
Of course, those ignorant folks in MS took the attitude that if you
got help to supply, then take it where ever you're brave/foolish
enough to go. One segment of some news program showed the SBC trucks
in the middle of the MS mess on Wednesday - they had to clear some of
the roads themselves to get through or they would have been in further
sooner.
It takes a finite amount of time for each level of a bureaucracy to
respond even if you follow all their ****-ant rules and procedures -
you ever get a 4-day response to an issue that has to be cleared by a
cabinet level authorization? I doubt it. The rules for survival in a
bureaucracy require that no one at any level take action until the
request for authorization has been passed up to whatever higher level
has defined authority to issue such and then comes back down through
the same channel. It is impossible for a bureaucracy to react
quickly; that's the nature of the beast. That lower levels made bad
decisions and did not initiate requests in a timely manner through
established channels just exacerbated the problems. With the failure
of the communications systems that all bureaucracies depend on, I'm
amazed that things happened as fast as they did in NOLA!
--
Will Honea
#158
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I have some experience with rural emergency response agencies. I assume
that what is happening in New Orleans is similar, but on a bigger scale.
The whole thing is based on personality. You can be fully competent for
your position, but be sacked because you "hurt someone's feelings". On the
other hand, a total idiot, who knows who to suck up to, will have lifetime
job security. Another thing to consider is the socio-economic status of
firemen, police, emergency medical workers. Although the people at the top
may have education and get paid a lot, such as your police commissioner,
fire chief, or a surgeon, the people at the bottom, who drive the fire
trucks, police cars, and ambulances, are barely high school or at best
technical school graduates. They may have the will, but they won't have the
brains or the insight to react properly in an emergency like this.
There are web sites that describe the response, or lack of it, to recent
tragedies like the World Trade Center and the Columbine tragedy. There were
and are serious problems. Most of them are related to lack of leadership
and failure to understand its importance. Where leaders exist, they are
political functionaries, without real understanding of the types of
emergency they are likely to deal with in their positions. Consider the
well-known American distrust of authority, which is, to be fair, based in
experience. How many of our presidents or governors have stabbed us in the
back, or been proven to have feet of clay?
In a situation like what is happening in New Orleans, you need people with a
strong sense of personal responsibility, who can lead and follow both, as
necessary. In our society (not just the United States) maybe one in twenty
is capable of this degree of personal responsibility, or you might even call
it honor or talent. The rest just get in the way.
In our little valley in the Colorado mountains, the Sheriff's Office did a
study of the need for Homeland Security preparedness. There are a lot of
grants that they could get, if they had need. The former under-sheriff
concluded that the chance of a disaster was so remote, that it would not be
worth the resources required to adequately prepare for one. I hope he is
right. This is a gamble. If we win, great. If we lose, and the train runs
off the tracks into the Animas river, it is really going to be "El rio de
las almas perdidas", just like the Spanish named it.
Other communities and agencies gladly take the federal money freely
offered, and do silly things with it, just because it is there for the
taking. What is our county nurse going to do with a basement full of gas
masks and Tyvek suits, for example? She takes the money, and pays for
equipment and training, that will never be used, just to get the
administrative overhead, so she can hire another employee. The county
commissioners know all about it, but they let her get away with it, because
of the personality thing. I remember the civil defense equipment of the
fifties and sixties, that finally went for pennies on the dollar, none of it
ever used. The people running the supply lines and warehouses made a
bundle.
What would it take, to prepare this country adequately for every possible
emergency that might occur?
There is a lot of waste in this part of the public sector, some of it
unavoidable. You have to prepare, for a disaster that may never come. What
do you do while you are waiting? The answer should be, "train, think of
disaster scenarios, try to keep up morale", but in many cases it is
"nothing". Take a look at alt.med.ems. Most of these guys can't even
figure out how to post to Usenet.
Earle
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:jrCUe.106109$G8.25523@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> Its all over our news, but focusing on the immediate sensationalism as is
> the norm for news channels. It seems the head of FEMA has been sacked, but
> with the pics I'm seeing, it looks like a really hard job to evac that
many
> people and keep back that amount of water. But, I'm 6K miles away and have
> never been there, hence the questions ! You guys know me well enough to
know
> I'm not trolling.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> > I will now duck and run for cover as things might get ugly around here!
>
> > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > news:KtAUe.106041$G8.65843@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> > > So what's the crack on New Orleans ? Is it an administration screwup
in
> > > not
> > > rescuing the people more efficiently or just an inevitable catastrophe
> as
> > > a
> > > result of building below the water table ?
> > >
> > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
that what is happening in New Orleans is similar, but on a bigger scale.
The whole thing is based on personality. You can be fully competent for
your position, but be sacked because you "hurt someone's feelings". On the
other hand, a total idiot, who knows who to suck up to, will have lifetime
job security. Another thing to consider is the socio-economic status of
firemen, police, emergency medical workers. Although the people at the top
may have education and get paid a lot, such as your police commissioner,
fire chief, or a surgeon, the people at the bottom, who drive the fire
trucks, police cars, and ambulances, are barely high school or at best
technical school graduates. They may have the will, but they won't have the
brains or the insight to react properly in an emergency like this.
There are web sites that describe the response, or lack of it, to recent
tragedies like the World Trade Center and the Columbine tragedy. There were
and are serious problems. Most of them are related to lack of leadership
and failure to understand its importance. Where leaders exist, they are
political functionaries, without real understanding of the types of
emergency they are likely to deal with in their positions. Consider the
well-known American distrust of authority, which is, to be fair, based in
experience. How many of our presidents or governors have stabbed us in the
back, or been proven to have feet of clay?
In a situation like what is happening in New Orleans, you need people with a
strong sense of personal responsibility, who can lead and follow both, as
necessary. In our society (not just the United States) maybe one in twenty
is capable of this degree of personal responsibility, or you might even call
it honor or talent. The rest just get in the way.
In our little valley in the Colorado mountains, the Sheriff's Office did a
study of the need for Homeland Security preparedness. There are a lot of
grants that they could get, if they had need. The former under-sheriff
concluded that the chance of a disaster was so remote, that it would not be
worth the resources required to adequately prepare for one. I hope he is
right. This is a gamble. If we win, great. If we lose, and the train runs
off the tracks into the Animas river, it is really going to be "El rio de
las almas perdidas", just like the Spanish named it.
Other communities and agencies gladly take the federal money freely
offered, and do silly things with it, just because it is there for the
taking. What is our county nurse going to do with a basement full of gas
masks and Tyvek suits, for example? She takes the money, and pays for
equipment and training, that will never be used, just to get the
administrative overhead, so she can hire another employee. The county
commissioners know all about it, but they let her get away with it, because
of the personality thing. I remember the civil defense equipment of the
fifties and sixties, that finally went for pennies on the dollar, none of it
ever used. The people running the supply lines and warehouses made a
bundle.
What would it take, to prepare this country adequately for every possible
emergency that might occur?
There is a lot of waste in this part of the public sector, some of it
unavoidable. You have to prepare, for a disaster that may never come. What
do you do while you are waiting? The answer should be, "train, think of
disaster scenarios, try to keep up morale", but in many cases it is
"nothing". Take a look at alt.med.ems. Most of these guys can't even
figure out how to post to Usenet.
Earle
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:jrCUe.106109$G8.25523@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> Its all over our news, but focusing on the immediate sensationalism as is
> the norm for news channels. It seems the head of FEMA has been sacked, but
> with the pics I'm seeing, it looks like a really hard job to evac that
many
> people and keep back that amount of water. But, I'm 6K miles away and have
> never been there, hence the questions ! You guys know me well enough to
know
> I'm not trolling.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> > I will now duck and run for cover as things might get ugly around here!
>
> > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > news:KtAUe.106041$G8.65843@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> > > So what's the crack on New Orleans ? Is it an administration screwup
in
> > > not
> > > rescuing the people more efficiently or just an inevitable catastrophe
> as
> > > a
> > > result of building below the water table ?
> > >
> > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
#159
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I have some experience with rural emergency response agencies. I assume
that what is happening in New Orleans is similar, but on a bigger scale.
The whole thing is based on personality. You can be fully competent for
your position, but be sacked because you "hurt someone's feelings". On the
other hand, a total idiot, who knows who to suck up to, will have lifetime
job security. Another thing to consider is the socio-economic status of
firemen, police, emergency medical workers. Although the people at the top
may have education and get paid a lot, such as your police commissioner,
fire chief, or a surgeon, the people at the bottom, who drive the fire
trucks, police cars, and ambulances, are barely high school or at best
technical school graduates. They may have the will, but they won't have the
brains or the insight to react properly in an emergency like this.
There are web sites that describe the response, or lack of it, to recent
tragedies like the World Trade Center and the Columbine tragedy. There were
and are serious problems. Most of them are related to lack of leadership
and failure to understand its importance. Where leaders exist, they are
political functionaries, without real understanding of the types of
emergency they are likely to deal with in their positions. Consider the
well-known American distrust of authority, which is, to be fair, based in
experience. How many of our presidents or governors have stabbed us in the
back, or been proven to have feet of clay?
In a situation like what is happening in New Orleans, you need people with a
strong sense of personal responsibility, who can lead and follow both, as
necessary. In our society (not just the United States) maybe one in twenty
is capable of this degree of personal responsibility, or you might even call
it honor or talent. The rest just get in the way.
In our little valley in the Colorado mountains, the Sheriff's Office did a
study of the need for Homeland Security preparedness. There are a lot of
grants that they could get, if they had need. The former under-sheriff
concluded that the chance of a disaster was so remote, that it would not be
worth the resources required to adequately prepare for one. I hope he is
right. This is a gamble. If we win, great. If we lose, and the train runs
off the tracks into the Animas river, it is really going to be "El rio de
las almas perdidas", just like the Spanish named it.
Other communities and agencies gladly take the federal money freely
offered, and do silly things with it, just because it is there for the
taking. What is our county nurse going to do with a basement full of gas
masks and Tyvek suits, for example? She takes the money, and pays for
equipment and training, that will never be used, just to get the
administrative overhead, so she can hire another employee. The county
commissioners know all about it, but they let her get away with it, because
of the personality thing. I remember the civil defense equipment of the
fifties and sixties, that finally went for pennies on the dollar, none of it
ever used. The people running the supply lines and warehouses made a
bundle.
What would it take, to prepare this country adequately for every possible
emergency that might occur?
There is a lot of waste in this part of the public sector, some of it
unavoidable. You have to prepare, for a disaster that may never come. What
do you do while you are waiting? The answer should be, "train, think of
disaster scenarios, try to keep up morale", but in many cases it is
"nothing". Take a look at alt.med.ems. Most of these guys can't even
figure out how to post to Usenet.
Earle
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:jrCUe.106109$G8.25523@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> Its all over our news, but focusing on the immediate sensationalism as is
> the norm for news channels. It seems the head of FEMA has been sacked, but
> with the pics I'm seeing, it looks like a really hard job to evac that
many
> people and keep back that amount of water. But, I'm 6K miles away and have
> never been there, hence the questions ! You guys know me well enough to
know
> I'm not trolling.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> > I will now duck and run for cover as things might get ugly around here!
>
> > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > news:KtAUe.106041$G8.65843@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> > > So what's the crack on New Orleans ? Is it an administration screwup
in
> > > not
> > > rescuing the people more efficiently or just an inevitable catastrophe
> as
> > > a
> > > result of building below the water table ?
> > >
> > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
that what is happening in New Orleans is similar, but on a bigger scale.
The whole thing is based on personality. You can be fully competent for
your position, but be sacked because you "hurt someone's feelings". On the
other hand, a total idiot, who knows who to suck up to, will have lifetime
job security. Another thing to consider is the socio-economic status of
firemen, police, emergency medical workers. Although the people at the top
may have education and get paid a lot, such as your police commissioner,
fire chief, or a surgeon, the people at the bottom, who drive the fire
trucks, police cars, and ambulances, are barely high school or at best
technical school graduates. They may have the will, but they won't have the
brains or the insight to react properly in an emergency like this.
There are web sites that describe the response, or lack of it, to recent
tragedies like the World Trade Center and the Columbine tragedy. There were
and are serious problems. Most of them are related to lack of leadership
and failure to understand its importance. Where leaders exist, they are
political functionaries, without real understanding of the types of
emergency they are likely to deal with in their positions. Consider the
well-known American distrust of authority, which is, to be fair, based in
experience. How many of our presidents or governors have stabbed us in the
back, or been proven to have feet of clay?
In a situation like what is happening in New Orleans, you need people with a
strong sense of personal responsibility, who can lead and follow both, as
necessary. In our society (not just the United States) maybe one in twenty
is capable of this degree of personal responsibility, or you might even call
it honor or talent. The rest just get in the way.
In our little valley in the Colorado mountains, the Sheriff's Office did a
study of the need for Homeland Security preparedness. There are a lot of
grants that they could get, if they had need. The former under-sheriff
concluded that the chance of a disaster was so remote, that it would not be
worth the resources required to adequately prepare for one. I hope he is
right. This is a gamble. If we win, great. If we lose, and the train runs
off the tracks into the Animas river, it is really going to be "El rio de
las almas perdidas", just like the Spanish named it.
Other communities and agencies gladly take the federal money freely
offered, and do silly things with it, just because it is there for the
taking. What is our county nurse going to do with a basement full of gas
masks and Tyvek suits, for example? She takes the money, and pays for
equipment and training, that will never be used, just to get the
administrative overhead, so she can hire another employee. The county
commissioners know all about it, but they let her get away with it, because
of the personality thing. I remember the civil defense equipment of the
fifties and sixties, that finally went for pennies on the dollar, none of it
ever used. The people running the supply lines and warehouses made a
bundle.
What would it take, to prepare this country adequately for every possible
emergency that might occur?
There is a lot of waste in this part of the public sector, some of it
unavoidable. You have to prepare, for a disaster that may never come. What
do you do while you are waiting? The answer should be, "train, think of
disaster scenarios, try to keep up morale", but in many cases it is
"nothing". Take a look at alt.med.ems. Most of these guys can't even
figure out how to post to Usenet.
Earle
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:jrCUe.106109$G8.25523@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> Its all over our news, but focusing on the immediate sensationalism as is
> the norm for news channels. It seems the head of FEMA has been sacked, but
> with the pics I'm seeing, it looks like a really hard job to evac that
many
> people and keep back that amount of water. But, I'm 6K miles away and have
> never been there, hence the questions ! You guys know me well enough to
know
> I'm not trolling.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> > I will now duck and run for cover as things might get ugly around here!
>
> > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > news:KtAUe.106041$G8.65843@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> > > So what's the crack on New Orleans ? Is it an administration screwup
in
> > > not
> > > rescuing the people more efficiently or just an inevitable catastrophe
> as
> > > a
> > > result of building below the water table ?
> > >
> > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
#160
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT New Orleans
I have some experience with rural emergency response agencies. I assume
that what is happening in New Orleans is similar, but on a bigger scale.
The whole thing is based on personality. You can be fully competent for
your position, but be sacked because you "hurt someone's feelings". On the
other hand, a total idiot, who knows who to suck up to, will have lifetime
job security. Another thing to consider is the socio-economic status of
firemen, police, emergency medical workers. Although the people at the top
may have education and get paid a lot, such as your police commissioner,
fire chief, or a surgeon, the people at the bottom, who drive the fire
trucks, police cars, and ambulances, are barely high school or at best
technical school graduates. They may have the will, but they won't have the
brains or the insight to react properly in an emergency like this.
There are web sites that describe the response, or lack of it, to recent
tragedies like the World Trade Center and the Columbine tragedy. There were
and are serious problems. Most of them are related to lack of leadership
and failure to understand its importance. Where leaders exist, they are
political functionaries, without real understanding of the types of
emergency they are likely to deal with in their positions. Consider the
well-known American distrust of authority, which is, to be fair, based in
experience. How many of our presidents or governors have stabbed us in the
back, or been proven to have feet of clay?
In a situation like what is happening in New Orleans, you need people with a
strong sense of personal responsibility, who can lead and follow both, as
necessary. In our society (not just the United States) maybe one in twenty
is capable of this degree of personal responsibility, or you might even call
it honor or talent. The rest just get in the way.
In our little valley in the Colorado mountains, the Sheriff's Office did a
study of the need for Homeland Security preparedness. There are a lot of
grants that they could get, if they had need. The former under-sheriff
concluded that the chance of a disaster was so remote, that it would not be
worth the resources required to adequately prepare for one. I hope he is
right. This is a gamble. If we win, great. If we lose, and the train runs
off the tracks into the Animas river, it is really going to be "El rio de
las almas perdidas", just like the Spanish named it.
Other communities and agencies gladly take the federal money freely
offered, and do silly things with it, just because it is there for the
taking. What is our county nurse going to do with a basement full of gas
masks and Tyvek suits, for example? She takes the money, and pays for
equipment and training, that will never be used, just to get the
administrative overhead, so she can hire another employee. The county
commissioners know all about it, but they let her get away with it, because
of the personality thing. I remember the civil defense equipment of the
fifties and sixties, that finally went for pennies on the dollar, none of it
ever used. The people running the supply lines and warehouses made a
bundle.
What would it take, to prepare this country adequately for every possible
emergency that might occur?
There is a lot of waste in this part of the public sector, some of it
unavoidable. You have to prepare, for a disaster that may never come. What
do you do while you are waiting? The answer should be, "train, think of
disaster scenarios, try to keep up morale", but in many cases it is
"nothing". Take a look at alt.med.ems. Most of these guys can't even
figure out how to post to Usenet.
Earle
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:jrCUe.106109$G8.25523@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> Its all over our news, but focusing on the immediate sensationalism as is
> the norm for news channels. It seems the head of FEMA has been sacked, but
> with the pics I'm seeing, it looks like a really hard job to evac that
many
> people and keep back that amount of water. But, I'm 6K miles away and have
> never been there, hence the questions ! You guys know me well enough to
know
> I'm not trolling.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> > I will now duck and run for cover as things might get ugly around here!
>
> > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > news:KtAUe.106041$G8.65843@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> > > So what's the crack on New Orleans ? Is it an administration screwup
in
> > > not
> > > rescuing the people more efficiently or just an inevitable catastrophe
> as
> > > a
> > > result of building below the water table ?
> > >
> > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
that what is happening in New Orleans is similar, but on a bigger scale.
The whole thing is based on personality. You can be fully competent for
your position, but be sacked because you "hurt someone's feelings". On the
other hand, a total idiot, who knows who to suck up to, will have lifetime
job security. Another thing to consider is the socio-economic status of
firemen, police, emergency medical workers. Although the people at the top
may have education and get paid a lot, such as your police commissioner,
fire chief, or a surgeon, the people at the bottom, who drive the fire
trucks, police cars, and ambulances, are barely high school or at best
technical school graduates. They may have the will, but they won't have the
brains or the insight to react properly in an emergency like this.
There are web sites that describe the response, or lack of it, to recent
tragedies like the World Trade Center and the Columbine tragedy. There were
and are serious problems. Most of them are related to lack of leadership
and failure to understand its importance. Where leaders exist, they are
political functionaries, without real understanding of the types of
emergency they are likely to deal with in their positions. Consider the
well-known American distrust of authority, which is, to be fair, based in
experience. How many of our presidents or governors have stabbed us in the
back, or been proven to have feet of clay?
In a situation like what is happening in New Orleans, you need people with a
strong sense of personal responsibility, who can lead and follow both, as
necessary. In our society (not just the United States) maybe one in twenty
is capable of this degree of personal responsibility, or you might even call
it honor or talent. The rest just get in the way.
In our little valley in the Colorado mountains, the Sheriff's Office did a
study of the need for Homeland Security preparedness. There are a lot of
grants that they could get, if they had need. The former under-sheriff
concluded that the chance of a disaster was so remote, that it would not be
worth the resources required to adequately prepare for one. I hope he is
right. This is a gamble. If we win, great. If we lose, and the train runs
off the tracks into the Animas river, it is really going to be "El rio de
las almas perdidas", just like the Spanish named it.
Other communities and agencies gladly take the federal money freely
offered, and do silly things with it, just because it is there for the
taking. What is our county nurse going to do with a basement full of gas
masks and Tyvek suits, for example? She takes the money, and pays for
equipment and training, that will never be used, just to get the
administrative overhead, so she can hire another employee. The county
commissioners know all about it, but they let her get away with it, because
of the personality thing. I remember the civil defense equipment of the
fifties and sixties, that finally went for pennies on the dollar, none of it
ever used. The people running the supply lines and warehouses made a
bundle.
What would it take, to prepare this country adequately for every possible
emergency that might occur?
There is a lot of waste in this part of the public sector, some of it
unavoidable. You have to prepare, for a disaster that may never come. What
do you do while you are waiting? The answer should be, "train, think of
disaster scenarios, try to keep up morale", but in many cases it is
"nothing". Take a look at alt.med.ems. Most of these guys can't even
figure out how to post to Usenet.
Earle
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:jrCUe.106109$G8.25523@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> Its all over our news, but focusing on the immediate sensationalism as is
> the norm for news channels. It seems the head of FEMA has been sacked, but
> with the pics I'm seeing, it looks like a really hard job to evac that
many
> people and keep back that amount of water. But, I'm 6K miles away and have
> never been there, hence the questions ! You guys know me well enough to
know
> I'm not trolling.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> > I will now duck and run for cover as things might get ugly around here!
>
> > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > news:KtAUe.106041$G8.65843@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> > > So what's the crack on New Orleans ? Is it an administration screwup
in
> > > not
> > > rescuing the people more efficiently or just an inevitable catastrophe
> as
> > > a
> > > result of building below the water table ?
> > >
> > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>