Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

Yup, for sure.

Some turn into pin cushions.

If the engine is totally dry, it might be ok, but if the engine is
seeping anywhere, forget it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Skip wrote:
>
> I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce leaks
> in the seals...
>
> Opinions???
>
> --
> Skip
>
> "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> message news:401EB407.2090600@usefirstinitialandlastnameAT erols.com...
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > Well, you said it...
> > >
> > > You had a dead engine before 100 K miles.
> > >
> > > Most folks get 200 to 300K before they have to do engine work on the
> > > 258's or 4.0's.
> > >
> > > Your method obviously doesn't work at all....
> >
> > I would definitely not go with his method either. Mobil 1 is cheap
> > enough these days ($18 for a 5 quart jug at wal-mart, or approximately
> > twice as much at bargain price dino oil). And no matter how good the oil
> > is the filter is bound to miss or reintroduce some stuff. That said:
> >
> > > Oil builds up contaminants from combustion and needs to be changed on a
> > > regular schedule no matter how fancy the oil....
> >
> > I'm not an oil expert but I did do a lot of reading on synthetics in
> > preparation to recommending them (or not) to be used in the fleet
> > vehicles of the company I work for.
> >
> > As I understand it pure synthetics like Mobil 1 do not have the same
> > sort of interaction that dino oil does in the combustion chamber, it
> > never gets the "varnish" that eventually turns into sludge. In addition
> > it is extremely good as devolving away any sludge that already exists
> > (if you're putting it in an engine that is already sludged up).
> > Basically dino oil no matter how well it's refined has organic matter
> > that burns at combustion temps, the oil traps it and most of it is too
> > small to get filtered eventually like sediment it ends up in nooks and
> > crannies, and you eventually get clogged oil galleys sludged up valves
> > etc. Synthetics don't produce the combustion by products in the first
> place.
> >
> > However it does have additives that become less effective over time just
> > like dino oil, and that is why it's generally recommended to change it
> > and the filter at normal 3000 miles intervals, even though it may look
> > just as clear as the day you put it in there.
> >
> > It is also considered much better for hard driving (towing and off-road)
> > tends to leave a good layer of oil on parts that dino oil drains off of
> > faster (in terms of start up friction). This is supposedly where pure
> > synthetics add most of their wear reduction benefit. It has a much lower
> > friction coefficient at startup and remains much slicker while warming
> > up until more is pulled up and is flowing into all the vital spots.
> >
> > --
> > Simon
> > "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

Yup, for sure.

Some turn into pin cushions.

If the engine is totally dry, it might be ok, but if the engine is
seeping anywhere, forget it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Skip wrote:
>
> I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce leaks
> in the seals...
>
> Opinions???
>
> --
> Skip
>
> "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> message news:401EB407.2090600@usefirstinitialandlastnameAT erols.com...
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > Well, you said it...
> > >
> > > You had a dead engine before 100 K miles.
> > >
> > > Most folks get 200 to 300K before they have to do engine work on the
> > > 258's or 4.0's.
> > >
> > > Your method obviously doesn't work at all....
> >
> > I would definitely not go with his method either. Mobil 1 is cheap
> > enough these days ($18 for a 5 quart jug at wal-mart, or approximately
> > twice as much at bargain price dino oil). And no matter how good the oil
> > is the filter is bound to miss or reintroduce some stuff. That said:
> >
> > > Oil builds up contaminants from combustion and needs to be changed on a
> > > regular schedule no matter how fancy the oil....
> >
> > I'm not an oil expert but I did do a lot of reading on synthetics in
> > preparation to recommending them (or not) to be used in the fleet
> > vehicles of the company I work for.
> >
> > As I understand it pure synthetics like Mobil 1 do not have the same
> > sort of interaction that dino oil does in the combustion chamber, it
> > never gets the "varnish" that eventually turns into sludge. In addition
> > it is extremely good as devolving away any sludge that already exists
> > (if you're putting it in an engine that is already sludged up).
> > Basically dino oil no matter how well it's refined has organic matter
> > that burns at combustion temps, the oil traps it and most of it is too
> > small to get filtered eventually like sediment it ends up in nooks and
> > crannies, and you eventually get clogged oil galleys sludged up valves
> > etc. Synthetics don't produce the combustion by products in the first
> place.
> >
> > However it does have additives that become less effective over time just
> > like dino oil, and that is why it's generally recommended to change it
> > and the filter at normal 3000 miles intervals, even though it may look
> > just as clear as the day you put it in there.
> >
> > It is also considered much better for hard driving (towing and off-road)
> > tends to leave a good layer of oil on parts that dino oil drains off of
> > faster (in terms of start up friction). This is supposedly where pure
> > synthetics add most of their wear reduction benefit. It has a much lower
> > friction coefficient at startup and remains much slicker while warming
> > up until more is pulled up and is flowing into all the vital spots.
> >
> > --
> > Simon
> > "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

Yup, for sure.

Some turn into pin cushions.

If the engine is totally dry, it might be ok, but if the engine is
seeping anywhere, forget it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Skip wrote:
>
> I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce leaks
> in the seals...
>
> Opinions???
>
> --
> Skip
>
> "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> message news:401EB407.2090600@usefirstinitialandlastnameAT erols.com...
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > Well, you said it...
> > >
> > > You had a dead engine before 100 K miles.
> > >
> > > Most folks get 200 to 300K before they have to do engine work on the
> > > 258's or 4.0's.
> > >
> > > Your method obviously doesn't work at all....
> >
> > I would definitely not go with his method either. Mobil 1 is cheap
> > enough these days ($18 for a 5 quart jug at wal-mart, or approximately
> > twice as much at bargain price dino oil). And no matter how good the oil
> > is the filter is bound to miss or reintroduce some stuff. That said:
> >
> > > Oil builds up contaminants from combustion and needs to be changed on a
> > > regular schedule no matter how fancy the oil....
> >
> > I'm not an oil expert but I did do a lot of reading on synthetics in
> > preparation to recommending them (or not) to be used in the fleet
> > vehicles of the company I work for.
> >
> > As I understand it pure synthetics like Mobil 1 do not have the same
> > sort of interaction that dino oil does in the combustion chamber, it
> > never gets the "varnish" that eventually turns into sludge. In addition
> > it is extremely good as devolving away any sludge that already exists
> > (if you're putting it in an engine that is already sludged up).
> > Basically dino oil no matter how well it's refined has organic matter
> > that burns at combustion temps, the oil traps it and most of it is too
> > small to get filtered eventually like sediment it ends up in nooks and
> > crannies, and you eventually get clogged oil galleys sludged up valves
> > etc. Synthetics don't produce the combustion by products in the first
> place.
> >
> > However it does have additives that become less effective over time just
> > like dino oil, and that is why it's generally recommended to change it
> > and the filter at normal 3000 miles intervals, even though it may look
> > just as clear as the day you put it in there.
> >
> > It is also considered much better for hard driving (towing and off-road)
> > tends to leave a good layer of oil on parts that dino oil drains off of
> > faster (in terms of start up friction). This is supposedly where pure
> > synthetics add most of their wear reduction benefit. It has a much lower
> > friction coefficient at startup and remains much slicker while warming
> > up until more is pulled up and is flowing into all the vital spots.
> >
> > --
> > Simon
> > "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

Skip did pass the time by typing:
> I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce leaks
> in the seals...
>
> Opinions???

What putting a synthetic into an engine will do is
break down gunk that may be providing a seal and allow
some oil to leak through. This is an indication you need
to fix the seal or rebuild since engine seals shouldn't
rely on crud to prevent leaks.

--
DougW

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

Skip did pass the time by typing:
> I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce leaks
> in the seals...
>
> Opinions???

What putting a synthetic into an engine will do is
break down gunk that may be providing a seal and allow
some oil to leak through. This is an indication you need
to fix the seal or rebuild since engine seals shouldn't
rely on crud to prevent leaks.

--
DougW

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

Skip did pass the time by typing:
> I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce leaks
> in the seals...
>
> Opinions???

What putting a synthetic into an engine will do is
break down gunk that may be providing a seal and allow
some oil to leak through. This is an indication you need
to fix the seal or rebuild since engine seals shouldn't
rely on crud to prevent leaks.

--
DougW

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

yeah that was my thought...

--
Skip


"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:0uETb.29125$L_4.15052@okepread01...
> Skip did pass the time by typing:
> > I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce
leaks
> > in the seals...
> >
> > Opinions???
>
> What putting a synthetic into an engine will do is
> break down gunk that may be providing a seal and allow
> some oil to leak through. This is an indication you need
> to fix the seal or rebuild since engine seals shouldn't
> rely on crud to prevent leaks.
>
> --
> DougW
>
>

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

yeah that was my thought...

--
Skip


"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:0uETb.29125$L_4.15052@okepread01...
> Skip did pass the time by typing:
> > I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce
leaks
> > in the seals...
> >
> > Opinions???
>
> What putting a synthetic into an engine will do is
> break down gunk that may be providing a seal and allow
> some oil to leak through. This is an indication you need
> to fix the seal or rebuild since engine seals shouldn't
> rely on crud to prevent leaks.
>
> --
> DougW
>
>

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

yeah that was my thought...

--
Skip


"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:0uETb.29125$L_4.15052@okepread01...
> Skip did pass the time by typing:
> > I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce
leaks
> > in the seals...
> >
> > Opinions???
>
> What putting a synthetic into an engine will do is
> break down gunk that may be providing a seal and allow
> some oil to leak through. This is an indication you need
> to fix the seal or rebuild since engine seals shouldn't
> rely on crud to prevent leaks.
>
> --
> DougW
>
>

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

You would have sounded more informed if you had said "The Society
of Automotive Engineers approved an industry standard test called the
“Single Pass Efficiency Test” (SPE) to measure a filter's ability to
remove contaminants from the engine’s system. The SPE Test is one of the
industry standards for evaluating and comparing oil filter performance,
and measures a filter's ability to remove less than 20 micron-sized
particles of dirt the first time through." -Fram
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Rich Hampel wrote:
>
> OK, then let me offer the facts that such oil filters will (or wont)
> qualify for compliance of the ASTM standard "OSU F-2 test stand" for a
> beta reduction value of ~100 (logrithm of the influent versus effluent
> particles) at rated particles per micron (micrometer) size. OSU being
> an acronymn for Oklahoma State University who designed the currently
> acccepted oil filter test stand methodology. If such a manufacturer (or
> rebranded labeler) woudnt comply to these 'industry' standards, then
> those in competition would be as visciously vocal as Howard Dean versus
> Kerry, Edwards, Clark, the rest of world, etc.
>
> With respect to 'recirculation' filtration the filter media of a more
> 'open' (larger) retention size will operate under less differential
> pressure (remaining laminar in throughput) hence filtering a vastlly
> greater total thoughput and particle capture (on a weight basis) per
> 'lifetime'. That the larger retention media's capability is larger
> does not mean less capture effeciency as it still has smaller particle
> retention capability at a lesser %; but, since is can handle MORE
> volumetric flow, the net effect of particle removal (per size) will be
> faster turnover to the desired resident particle distribution that is
> deemed non-injurious to the bearing, etc. clearances, etc. ... where
> the typical base line or resident particles deemed to be sufficiently
> small and non-injurious are at ~1/5 the diameter of the smallest
> 'equivalent' orfice of the system to be protected - electrostatic
> 'bridging' of the particles being a principal source of plugging,
> scoreing, etc.
>
> Since the principal function of a hydrodynamic bearing ( oil served
> plain journal) is to provide 'lift' versus the developed hydrodynamic
> pressure, the effect of particulate at less than 1/5 the operational
> bearing clearance is small, hence recirculating oil filtration can be
> quite 'coarse' and still do a reasonable job of extraneous wear
> protection.
>
> how's that?
>
> ;-)