Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

DougW wrote:

> Skip did pass the time by typing:
>
>>I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce leaks
>>in the seals...
>>
>>Opinions???
>
>
> What putting a synthetic into an engine will do is
> break down gunk that may be providing a seal and allow
> some oil to leak through. This is an indication you need
> to fix the seal or rebuild since engine seals shouldn't
> rely on crud to prevent leaks.
>

From a practical standpoint, If your engine is in that condition,
there's no point wasting money on expensive synthetic oil, is there?

You're better off sticking with regular oil until a rebuild is required.

Regards,

DAve

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

> Ok are we saying here that it's ok to use a filter other than the mfg
> recommended number as long as it's larger and the threads and size match?
Yes.

In the mid-70s I used to drive a UK-market Lancia Beta 2000. The "correct"
oil filter for it was very hard to get hold of and also expensive. By
trawling the filter manufacturers catalogues I was able to establish that
the same filter was listed as an alternative for one of the engines the in
use in the European Ford Transit van. The standard filter for this was
widely available and _way_ cheaper than the Lancia part. Also considerably
bigger. This car ran with the van engine filter for the rest of its life.
The body rusted away before the engine wore out, but then it WAs a 70's
Lancia :-)

SteveM

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

> Ok are we saying here that it's ok to use a filter other than the mfg
> recommended number as long as it's larger and the threads and size match?
Yes.

In the mid-70s I used to drive a UK-market Lancia Beta 2000. The "correct"
oil filter for it was very hard to get hold of and also expensive. By
trawling the filter manufacturers catalogues I was able to establish that
the same filter was listed as an alternative for one of the engines the in
use in the European Ford Transit van. The standard filter for this was
widely available and _way_ cheaper than the Lancia part. Also considerably
bigger. This car ran with the van engine filter for the rest of its life.
The body rusted away before the engine wore out, but then it WAs a 70's
Lancia :-)

SteveM

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

> Ok are we saying here that it's ok to use a filter other than the mfg
> recommended number as long as it's larger and the threads and size match?
Yes.

In the mid-70s I used to drive a UK-market Lancia Beta 2000. The "correct"
oil filter for it was very hard to get hold of and also expensive. By
trawling the filter manufacturers catalogues I was able to establish that
the same filter was listed as an alternative for one of the engines the in
use in the European Ford Transit van. The standard filter for this was
widely available and _way_ cheaper than the Lancia part. Also considerably
bigger. This car ran with the van engine filter for the rest of its life.
The body rusted away before the engine wore out, but then it WAs a 70's
Lancia :-)

SteveM

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

Holy smokes! I haven't seen this much urination since my last trip to
Bolivia!!! :)
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
"Rich Hampel" <RhmpL33@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:020220042346410987%RhmpL33@nospam.net...
> But when I had my SAE 'ticket' the root source that information was
> acceptance of the ASTM OSU-F2 method. The beta value given is beta=100
> @ 20uM.
>
> ;-)
>
> In article <401F1E05.70B1ED74@cox.net>, ßill <----------@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > You would have sounded more informed if you had said "The Society
> > of Automotive Engineers approved an industry standard test called the
> > "Single Pass Efficiency Test" (SPE) to measure a filter's ability to
> > remove contaminants from the engine's system. The SPE Test is one of the
> > industry standards for evaluating and comparing oil filter performance,
> > and measures a filter's ability to remove less than 20 micron-sized
> > particles of dirt the first time through." -Fram
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Rich Hampel wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, then let me offer the facts that such oil filters will (or wont)
> > > qualify for compliance of the ASTM standard "OSU F-2 test stand" for a
> > > beta reduction value of ~100 (logrithm of the influent versus effluent
> > > particles) at rated particles per micron (micrometer) size. OSU being
> > > an acronymn for Oklahoma State University who designed the currently
> > > acccepted oil filter test stand methodology. If such a manufacturer
(or
> > > rebranded labeler) woudnt comply to these 'industry' standards, then
> > > those in competition would be as visciously vocal as Howard Dean
versus
> > > Kerry, Edwards, Clark, the rest of world, etc.
> > >
> > > With respect to 'recirculation' filtration the filter media of a more
> > > 'open' (larger) retention size will operate under less differential
> > > pressure (remaining laminar in throughput) hence filtering a vastlly
> > > greater total thoughput and particle capture (on a weight basis) per
> > > 'lifetime'. That the larger retention media's capability is larger
> > > does not mean less capture effeciency as it still has smaller particle
> > > retention capability at a lesser %; but, since is can handle MORE
> > > volumetric flow, the net effect of particle removal (per size) will be
> > > faster turnover to the desired resident particle distribution that is
> > > deemed non-injurious to the bearing, etc. clearances, etc. ... where
> > > the typical base line or resident particles deemed to be sufficiently
> > > small and non-injurious are at ~1/5 the diameter of the smallest
> > > 'equivalent' orfice of the system to be protected - electrostatic
> > > 'bridging' of the particles being a principal source of plugging,
> > > scoreing, etc.
> > >
> > > Since the principal function of a hydrodynamic bearing ( oil served
> > > plain journal) is to provide 'lift' versus the developed hydrodynamic
> > > pressure, the effect of particulate at less than 1/5 the operational
> > > bearing clearance is small, hence recirculating oil filtration can be
> > > quite 'coarse' and still do a reasonable job of extraneous wear
> > > protection.
> > >
> > > how's that?
> > >
> > > ;-)

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

Holy smokes! I haven't seen this much urination since my last trip to
Bolivia!!! :)
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
"Rich Hampel" <RhmpL33@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:020220042346410987%RhmpL33@nospam.net...
> But when I had my SAE 'ticket' the root source that information was
> acceptance of the ASTM OSU-F2 method. The beta value given is beta=100
> @ 20uM.
>
> ;-)
>
> In article <401F1E05.70B1ED74@cox.net>, ßill <----------@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > You would have sounded more informed if you had said "The Society
> > of Automotive Engineers approved an industry standard test called the
> > "Single Pass Efficiency Test" (SPE) to measure a filter's ability to
> > remove contaminants from the engine's system. The SPE Test is one of the
> > industry standards for evaluating and comparing oil filter performance,
> > and measures a filter's ability to remove less than 20 micron-sized
> > particles of dirt the first time through." -Fram
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Rich Hampel wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, then let me offer the facts that such oil filters will (or wont)
> > > qualify for compliance of the ASTM standard "OSU F-2 test stand" for a
> > > beta reduction value of ~100 (logrithm of the influent versus effluent
> > > particles) at rated particles per micron (micrometer) size. OSU being
> > > an acronymn for Oklahoma State University who designed the currently
> > > acccepted oil filter test stand methodology. If such a manufacturer
(or
> > > rebranded labeler) woudnt comply to these 'industry' standards, then
> > > those in competition would be as visciously vocal as Howard Dean
versus
> > > Kerry, Edwards, Clark, the rest of world, etc.
> > >
> > > With respect to 'recirculation' filtration the filter media of a more
> > > 'open' (larger) retention size will operate under less differential
> > > pressure (remaining laminar in throughput) hence filtering a vastlly
> > > greater total thoughput and particle capture (on a weight basis) per
> > > 'lifetime'. That the larger retention media's capability is larger
> > > does not mean less capture effeciency as it still has smaller particle
> > > retention capability at a lesser %; but, since is can handle MORE
> > > volumetric flow, the net effect of particle removal (per size) will be
> > > faster turnover to the desired resident particle distribution that is
> > > deemed non-injurious to the bearing, etc. clearances, etc. ... where
> > > the typical base line or resident particles deemed to be sufficiently
> > > small and non-injurious are at ~1/5 the diameter of the smallest
> > > 'equivalent' orfice of the system to be protected - electrostatic
> > > 'bridging' of the particles being a principal source of plugging,
> > > scoreing, etc.
> > >
> > > Since the principal function of a hydrodynamic bearing ( oil served
> > > plain journal) is to provide 'lift' versus the developed hydrodynamic
> > > pressure, the effect of particulate at less than 1/5 the operational
> > > bearing clearance is small, hence recirculating oil filtration can be
> > > quite 'coarse' and still do a reasonable job of extraneous wear
> > > protection.
> > >
> > > how's that?
> > >
> > > ;-)

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

Holy smokes! I haven't seen this much urination since my last trip to
Bolivia!!! :)
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
"Rich Hampel" <RhmpL33@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:020220042346410987%RhmpL33@nospam.net...
> But when I had my SAE 'ticket' the root source that information was
> acceptance of the ASTM OSU-F2 method. The beta value given is beta=100
> @ 20uM.
>
> ;-)
>
> In article <401F1E05.70B1ED74@cox.net>, ßill <----------@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > You would have sounded more informed if you had said "The Society
> > of Automotive Engineers approved an industry standard test called the
> > "Single Pass Efficiency Test" (SPE) to measure a filter's ability to
> > remove contaminants from the engine's system. The SPE Test is one of the
> > industry standards for evaluating and comparing oil filter performance,
> > and measures a filter's ability to remove less than 20 micron-sized
> > particles of dirt the first time through." -Fram
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Rich Hampel wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, then let me offer the facts that such oil filters will (or wont)
> > > qualify for compliance of the ASTM standard "OSU F-2 test stand" for a
> > > beta reduction value of ~100 (logrithm of the influent versus effluent
> > > particles) at rated particles per micron (micrometer) size. OSU being
> > > an acronymn for Oklahoma State University who designed the currently
> > > acccepted oil filter test stand methodology. If such a manufacturer
(or
> > > rebranded labeler) woudnt comply to these 'industry' standards, then
> > > those in competition would be as visciously vocal as Howard Dean
versus
> > > Kerry, Edwards, Clark, the rest of world, etc.
> > >
> > > With respect to 'recirculation' filtration the filter media of a more
> > > 'open' (larger) retention size will operate under less differential
> > > pressure (remaining laminar in throughput) hence filtering a vastlly
> > > greater total thoughput and particle capture (on a weight basis) per
> > > 'lifetime'. That the larger retention media's capability is larger
> > > does not mean less capture effeciency as it still has smaller particle
> > > retention capability at a lesser %; but, since is can handle MORE
> > > volumetric flow, the net effect of particle removal (per size) will be
> > > faster turnover to the desired resident particle distribution that is
> > > deemed non-injurious to the bearing, etc. clearances, etc. ... where
> > > the typical base line or resident particles deemed to be sufficiently
> > > small and non-injurious are at ~1/5 the diameter of the smallest
> > > 'equivalent' orfice of the system to be protected - electrostatic
> > > 'bridging' of the particles being a principal source of plugging,
> > > scoreing, etc.
> > >
> > > Since the principal function of a hydrodynamic bearing ( oil served
> > > plain journal) is to provide 'lift' versus the developed hydrodynamic
> > > pressure, the effect of particulate at less than 1/5 the operational
> > > bearing clearance is small, hence recirculating oil filtration can be
> > > quite 'coarse' and still do a reasonable job of extraneous wear
> > > protection.
> > >
> > > how's that?
> > >
> > > ;-)

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

The beauty of my 258 is that it is held together with crude and still
keeps running. Its like a yard full of weeds; if you keep them cut they
look like grass. I usually switch out some of the crude in my 258 every 3
or 4 thousand miles and it stills looks good from the outside.

Dan Ferrell
84 CJ-7



"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:0uETb.29125$L_4.15052@okepread01...
> Skip did pass the time by typing:
> > I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce
leaks
> > in the seals...
> >
> > Opinions???
>
> What putting a synthetic into an engine will do is
> break down gunk that may be providing a seal and allow
> some oil to leak through. This is an indication you need
> to fix the seal or rebuild since engine seals shouldn't
> rely on crud to prevent leaks.
>
> --
> DougW
>
>

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

The beauty of my 258 is that it is held together with crude and still
keeps running. Its like a yard full of weeds; if you keep them cut they
look like grass. I usually switch out some of the crude in my 258 every 3
or 4 thousand miles and it stills looks good from the outside.

Dan Ferrell
84 CJ-7



"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:0uETb.29125$L_4.15052@okepread01...
> Skip did pass the time by typing:
> > I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce
leaks
> > in the seals...
> >
> > Opinions???
>
> What putting a synthetic into an engine will do is
> break down gunk that may be providing a seal and allow
> some oil to leak through. This is an indication you need
> to fix the seal or rebuild since engine seals shouldn't
> rely on crud to prevent leaks.
>
> --
> DougW
>
>

Re: Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?
 

The beauty of my 258 is that it is held together with crude and still
keeps running. Its like a yard full of weeds; if you keep them cut they
look like grass. I usually switch out some of the crude in my 258 every 3
or 4 thousand miles and it stills looks good from the outside.

Dan Ferrell
84 CJ-7



"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:0uETb.29125$L_4.15052@okepread01...
> Skip did pass the time by typing:
> > I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce
leaks
> > in the seals...
> >
> > Opinions???
>
> What putting a synthetic into an engine will do is
> break down gunk that may be providing a seal and allow
> some oil to leak through. This is an indication you need
> to fix the seal or rebuild since engine seals shouldn't
> rely on crud to prevent leaks.
>
> --
> DougW
>
>