Maybe slightly OT. trailer winch wiring
05-29-2006, 09:26 AM
#111
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Maybe slightly OT. trailer winch wiring
That is a totally different animal and needs to be treated the same as
putting a dual battery system into any vehicle. Let's not get the
'engineers' going on that one eh....
As you mention, they make some sweet off the shelf isolators these days
that sense the second batteries voltage so it never gets over charged or
cooks out the primary battery. I have seen some 'amazing' rube goldburg
designs for this that require a University degree and really specialized
equipment to set up, come out of 'engineers' posts.... LOL!
Mike
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> That's what I'm thinking. But I would definitely wire in an isolation
> circuit. The kind I am thinking of is diode based, and assures that the
> trailer electrics only get power from the vehicle alternator, not from the
> vehicle battery. Any camping supply store should have one in stock,
> complete with wiring diagram.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:447A253B.4B4CCF8E@sympatico.ca...
> > Then the OP has no worries if the Jeep/Ford starter solenoids he bought
> > should already be 'safe' to use on vehicles eh? Especially on his
> > 'Jeep'... ;-\
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Earle Horton wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > The diode is not in series with the load. It is in parallel with the
> > > solenoid, to bleed off the rather large voltage spike that can come off
> of
> > > it, when the power is removed. That spike can bypass the battery and
> > > anything else in your system, and operating via Murphy's Law will seek
> out
> > > the most fragile electronic component it can find. Even a vehicle
> battery
> > > does not "instantly" absorb a voltage spike of the kind we are talking
> > > about. Otoh, this discussion is probably academic. I haven't cut apart
> a
> > > Ford starter solenoid lately, but it probably has something inside of it
> to
> > > avoid lawsuits from fried stereos and PCMs.
> > >
> > > Lon,
> > >
> > > I mentioned the isolation switch way back near the beginning of this
> thread.
> > > They are great to have with any trailer electrical system. They give
> one
> > > the option to drive home, in the event the trailer system drains its
> > > battery.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:8ridnXbpMdoLYuTZ4p2dnA@comcast.com...
> > > > Mike Romain proclaimed:
> > > >
> > > > > You guys keep talking about electronics..... We are talking winches
> and
> > > > > starters hooked up to guess what? A battery, which as you say can
> > > > > handle most any spike that comes out of a starter solenoid.
> > > > >
> > > > > You post like an engineer. I am one of the poor techies that has to
> fix
> > > > > what you engineers overdesign all to ----. LOL!
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, to quote a fellow engineer...involving a major magic smoke
> > > > situation where someone decided to redesign a power circuit:
> > > > "One can only admire the creativity of this field solution...."
> > > > >
> > > > > Why in the world would someone want to put a diode in a freaking
> winch
> > > > > circuit that resides on a trailer with its own independent battery
> > > > > power???
> > > > >
> > > > > For that matter even trying to find a diode that can handle a winch
> at
> > > > > full load, well....
> > > >
> > > > Available, but the suggested diode is not in series so a cheap GE
> > > > glass/ceramic is overkill. Or just leave them off and use a staged
> > > > switch where a commercial auto relay already has everything needed.
> > > >
> > > > If that battery trailer is connected to a main vehicle during
> operation,
> > > > then I'd probably add isolation as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > I like the KISS principle myself....
> > > >
> > > > I like the KISSbutnottooSS.
> > >
> > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
>
> *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
putting a dual battery system into any vehicle. Let's not get the
'engineers' going on that one eh....
As you mention, they make some sweet off the shelf isolators these days
that sense the second batteries voltage so it never gets over charged or
cooks out the primary battery. I have seen some 'amazing' rube goldburg
designs for this that require a University degree and really specialized
equipment to set up, come out of 'engineers' posts.... LOL!
Mike
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> That's what I'm thinking. But I would definitely wire in an isolation
> circuit. The kind I am thinking of is diode based, and assures that the
> trailer electrics only get power from the vehicle alternator, not from the
> vehicle battery. Any camping supply store should have one in stock,
> complete with wiring diagram.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:447A253B.4B4CCF8E@sympatico.ca...
> > Then the OP has no worries if the Jeep/Ford starter solenoids he bought
> > should already be 'safe' to use on vehicles eh? Especially on his
> > 'Jeep'... ;-\
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Earle Horton wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > The diode is not in series with the load. It is in parallel with the
> > > solenoid, to bleed off the rather large voltage spike that can come off
> of
> > > it, when the power is removed. That spike can bypass the battery and
> > > anything else in your system, and operating via Murphy's Law will seek
> out
> > > the most fragile electronic component it can find. Even a vehicle
> battery
> > > does not "instantly" absorb a voltage spike of the kind we are talking
> > > about. Otoh, this discussion is probably academic. I haven't cut apart
> a
> > > Ford starter solenoid lately, but it probably has something inside of it
> to
> > > avoid lawsuits from fried stereos and PCMs.
> > >
> > > Lon,
> > >
> > > I mentioned the isolation switch way back near the beginning of this
> thread.
> > > They are great to have with any trailer electrical system. They give
> one
> > > the option to drive home, in the event the trailer system drains its
> > > battery.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:8ridnXbpMdoLYuTZ4p2dnA@comcast.com...
> > > > Mike Romain proclaimed:
> > > >
> > > > > You guys keep talking about electronics..... We are talking winches
> and
> > > > > starters hooked up to guess what? A battery, which as you say can
> > > > > handle most any spike that comes out of a starter solenoid.
> > > > >
> > > > > You post like an engineer. I am one of the poor techies that has to
> fix
> > > > > what you engineers overdesign all to ----. LOL!
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, to quote a fellow engineer...involving a major magic smoke
> > > > situation where someone decided to redesign a power circuit:
> > > > "One can only admire the creativity of this field solution...."
> > > > >
> > > > > Why in the world would someone want to put a diode in a freaking
> winch
> > > > > circuit that resides on a trailer with its own independent battery
> > > > > power???
> > > > >
> > > > > For that matter even trying to find a diode that can handle a winch
> at
> > > > > full load, well....
> > > >
> > > > Available, but the suggested diode is not in series so a cheap GE
> > > > glass/ceramic is overkill. Or just leave them off and use a staged
> > > > switch where a commercial auto relay already has everything needed.
> > > >
> > > > If that battery trailer is connected to a main vehicle during
> operation,
> > > > then I'd probably add isolation as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > I like the KISS principle myself....
> > > >
> > > > I like the KISSbutnottooSS.
> > >
> > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
>
> *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
05-29-2006, 09:26 AM
#112
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Maybe slightly OT. trailer winch wiring
That is a totally different animal and needs to be treated the same as
putting a dual battery system into any vehicle. Let's not get the
'engineers' going on that one eh....
As you mention, they make some sweet off the shelf isolators these days
that sense the second batteries voltage so it never gets over charged or
cooks out the primary battery. I have seen some 'amazing' rube goldburg
designs for this that require a University degree and really specialized
equipment to set up, come out of 'engineers' posts.... LOL!
Mike
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> That's what I'm thinking. But I would definitely wire in an isolation
> circuit. The kind I am thinking of is diode based, and assures that the
> trailer electrics only get power from the vehicle alternator, not from the
> vehicle battery. Any camping supply store should have one in stock,
> complete with wiring diagram.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:447A253B.4B4CCF8E@sympatico.ca...
> > Then the OP has no worries if the Jeep/Ford starter solenoids he bought
> > should already be 'safe' to use on vehicles eh? Especially on his
> > 'Jeep'... ;-\
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Earle Horton wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > The diode is not in series with the load. It is in parallel with the
> > > solenoid, to bleed off the rather large voltage spike that can come off
> of
> > > it, when the power is removed. That spike can bypass the battery and
> > > anything else in your system, and operating via Murphy's Law will seek
> out
> > > the most fragile electronic component it can find. Even a vehicle
> battery
> > > does not "instantly" absorb a voltage spike of the kind we are talking
> > > about. Otoh, this discussion is probably academic. I haven't cut apart
> a
> > > Ford starter solenoid lately, but it probably has something inside of it
> to
> > > avoid lawsuits from fried stereos and PCMs.
> > >
> > > Lon,
> > >
> > > I mentioned the isolation switch way back near the beginning of this
> thread.
> > > They are great to have with any trailer electrical system. They give
> one
> > > the option to drive home, in the event the trailer system drains its
> > > battery.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:8ridnXbpMdoLYuTZ4p2dnA@comcast.com...
> > > > Mike Romain proclaimed:
> > > >
> > > > > You guys keep talking about electronics..... We are talking winches
> and
> > > > > starters hooked up to guess what? A battery, which as you say can
> > > > > handle most any spike that comes out of a starter solenoid.
> > > > >
> > > > > You post like an engineer. I am one of the poor techies that has to
> fix
> > > > > what you engineers overdesign all to ----. LOL!
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, to quote a fellow engineer...involving a major magic smoke
> > > > situation where someone decided to redesign a power circuit:
> > > > "One can only admire the creativity of this field solution...."
> > > > >
> > > > > Why in the world would someone want to put a diode in a freaking
> winch
> > > > > circuit that resides on a trailer with its own independent battery
> > > > > power???
> > > > >
> > > > > For that matter even trying to find a diode that can handle a winch
> at
> > > > > full load, well....
> > > >
> > > > Available, but the suggested diode is not in series so a cheap GE
> > > > glass/ceramic is overkill. Or just leave them off and use a staged
> > > > switch where a commercial auto relay already has everything needed.
> > > >
> > > > If that battery trailer is connected to a main vehicle during
> operation,
> > > > then I'd probably add isolation as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > I like the KISS principle myself....
> > > >
> > > > I like the KISSbutnottooSS.
> > >
> > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
>
> *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
putting a dual battery system into any vehicle. Let's not get the
'engineers' going on that one eh....
As you mention, they make some sweet off the shelf isolators these days
that sense the second batteries voltage so it never gets over charged or
cooks out the primary battery. I have seen some 'amazing' rube goldburg
designs for this that require a University degree and really specialized
equipment to set up, come out of 'engineers' posts.... LOL!
Mike
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> That's what I'm thinking. But I would definitely wire in an isolation
> circuit. The kind I am thinking of is diode based, and assures that the
> trailer electrics only get power from the vehicle alternator, not from the
> vehicle battery. Any camping supply store should have one in stock,
> complete with wiring diagram.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:447A253B.4B4CCF8E@sympatico.ca...
> > Then the OP has no worries if the Jeep/Ford starter solenoids he bought
> > should already be 'safe' to use on vehicles eh? Especially on his
> > 'Jeep'... ;-\
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Earle Horton wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > The diode is not in series with the load. It is in parallel with the
> > > solenoid, to bleed off the rather large voltage spike that can come off
> of
> > > it, when the power is removed. That spike can bypass the battery and
> > > anything else in your system, and operating via Murphy's Law will seek
> out
> > > the most fragile electronic component it can find. Even a vehicle
> battery
> > > does not "instantly" absorb a voltage spike of the kind we are talking
> > > about. Otoh, this discussion is probably academic. I haven't cut apart
> a
> > > Ford starter solenoid lately, but it probably has something inside of it
> to
> > > avoid lawsuits from fried stereos and PCMs.
> > >
> > > Lon,
> > >
> > > I mentioned the isolation switch way back near the beginning of this
> thread.
> > > They are great to have with any trailer electrical system. They give
> one
> > > the option to drive home, in the event the trailer system drains its
> > > battery.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:8ridnXbpMdoLYuTZ4p2dnA@comcast.com...
> > > > Mike Romain proclaimed:
> > > >
> > > > > You guys keep talking about electronics..... We are talking winches
> and
> > > > > starters hooked up to guess what? A battery, which as you say can
> > > > > handle most any spike that comes out of a starter solenoid.
> > > > >
> > > > > You post like an engineer. I am one of the poor techies that has to
> fix
> > > > > what you engineers overdesign all to ----. LOL!
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, to quote a fellow engineer...involving a major magic smoke
> > > > situation where someone decided to redesign a power circuit:
> > > > "One can only admire the creativity of this field solution...."
> > > > >
> > > > > Why in the world would someone want to put a diode in a freaking
> winch
> > > > > circuit that resides on a trailer with its own independent battery
> > > > > power???
> > > > >
> > > > > For that matter even trying to find a diode that can handle a winch
> at
> > > > > full load, well....
> > > >
> > > > Available, but the suggested diode is not in series so a cheap GE
> > > > glass/ceramic is overkill. Or just leave them off and use a staged
> > > > switch where a commercial auto relay already has everything needed.
> > > >
> > > > If that battery trailer is connected to a main vehicle during
> operation,
> > > > then I'd probably add isolation as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > I like the KISS principle myself....
> > > >
> > > > I like the KISSbutnottooSS.
> > >
> > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
>
> *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
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