On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:12:42 -0500, Dan Gates
<dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:

>Bill Funk wrote:
>> On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:55:00 -0500, Dan Gates
>> <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Let me just add:
>>> Can US
>>>
>>>
>>>Infant mortality/ 1,000
>>>live births 5 7
>>>
>>>Prob. of dying/1,000
>>>Age 5, Males 6 8
>>>Age 5, Females 5 8
>>>
>>>Age 15-59, Males 104 148
>>>Age 15-59, Females 59 85
>>
>>
>> Point out, while you're at it, that these figures say absolutely
>> nothing about health care, one way or another.
>>
>
>
>They certainly must, because to listen to any number of Americans, life
>is so tough up here what with the cold and snow and the high taxes and
>the low dollar and the poor productivity and the poor democracy, our
>lives are much harder to live, we should have much poorer life expectancies.

That's hogwash, and you know it.
Hyperbole isn't to be taken seriously.
>
>The figures cited are pretty standard measures of health care efficacy.
> Since the US and Canada are so similar, demographically, health care
>must be the difference.

As has been pointed out far too many times for you to NOT have seen it
by now, correlation does not equal causation.
>
>Dan

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:41:02 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <tdudnV1yI7gtDFKiRTvUqA@texas.net>, Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
>>Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Jenn Wasdyke wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>So your perception of Canadian healthcare is based on the experience of a
>>>>>friend of yours who was warned off the system by some unknown other
>>>>>individuals.
>>>>>Mine is based on getting very suddenly struck down with a large and lodged
>>>>>kidney stone at 4 in the morning while in Toronto. Extremely painful, but
>>>>>not life threatening. I was diagnosed, treated, operated upon and
>>>>>prescribed suitable meds in a fast, efficient, capable, thorough manner.
>>>
>>>
>>>>As opposed to the American health care system where kidney stone
>>>>patients are tossed out on the street and beaten before being put out of
>>>>their misery...
>>>
>>>
>>> Try getting a lodged kidney stone in America without medical coverage or
>>> lots of money, then get back to us.
>>>
>>> DS
>>>
>>
>>Dan, living in America without medical coverage is stupid. I don't have
>>any patience for people who are deliberately stupid, nor do I want to
>>subsidize them. Decent health care is affordable here, so let's stick to
>>comparing someone in the US who HAS coverage (not lots of money) to
>>someone in Canada. At least you get to PICK your coverage and your
>>doctor here.
>>
>>
>>
>
>And the poor can crawl off and die, is that it?

Gee, Lloyd, not even your liberal friends can come up with such a
scenario actually happening.
Doesn't it feel lonely out there all alone?
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:41:02 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <tdudnV1yI7gtDFKiRTvUqA@texas.net>, Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
>>Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Jenn Wasdyke wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>So your perception of Canadian healthcare is based on the experience of a
>>>>>friend of yours who was warned off the system by some unknown other
>>>>>individuals.
>>>>>Mine is based on getting very suddenly struck down with a large and lodged
>>>>>kidney stone at 4 in the morning while in Toronto. Extremely painful, but
>>>>>not life threatening. I was diagnosed, treated, operated upon and
>>>>>prescribed suitable meds in a fast, efficient, capable, thorough manner.
>>>
>>>
>>>>As opposed to the American health care system where kidney stone
>>>>patients are tossed out on the street and beaten before being put out of
>>>>their misery...
>>>
>>>
>>> Try getting a lodged kidney stone in America without medical coverage or
>>> lots of money, then get back to us.
>>>
>>> DS
>>>
>>
>>Dan, living in America without medical coverage is stupid. I don't have
>>any patience for people who are deliberately stupid, nor do I want to
>>subsidize them. Decent health care is affordable here, so let's stick to
>>comparing someone in the US who HAS coverage (not lots of money) to
>>someone in Canada. At least you get to PICK your coverage and your
>>doctor here.
>>
>>
>>
>
>And the poor can crawl off and die, is that it?

Gee, Lloyd, not even your liberal friends can come up with such a
scenario actually happening.
Doesn't it feel lonely out there all alone?
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:41:02 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <tdudnV1yI7gtDFKiRTvUqA@texas.net>, Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
>>Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Jenn Wasdyke wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>So your perception of Canadian healthcare is based on the experience of a
>>>>>friend of yours who was warned off the system by some unknown other
>>>>>individuals.
>>>>>Mine is based on getting very suddenly struck down with a large and lodged
>>>>>kidney stone at 4 in the morning while in Toronto. Extremely painful, but
>>>>>not life threatening. I was diagnosed, treated, operated upon and
>>>>>prescribed suitable meds in a fast, efficient, capable, thorough manner.
>>>
>>>
>>>>As opposed to the American health care system where kidney stone
>>>>patients are tossed out on the street and beaten before being put out of
>>>>their misery...
>>>
>>>
>>> Try getting a lodged kidney stone in America without medical coverage or
>>> lots of money, then get back to us.
>>>
>>> DS
>>>
>>
>>Dan, living in America without medical coverage is stupid. I don't have
>>any patience for people who are deliberately stupid, nor do I want to
>>subsidize them. Decent health care is affordable here, so let's stick to
>>comparing someone in the US who HAS coverage (not lots of money) to
>>someone in Canada. At least you get to PICK your coverage and your
>>doctor here.
>>
>>
>>
>
>And the poor can crawl off and die, is that it?

Gee, Lloyd, not even your liberal friends can come up with such a
scenario actually happening.
Doesn't it feel lonely out there all alone?
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:36:33 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <vsv15g1jlv50f8@corp.supernews.com>,
> "The Ancient One" <onlytheone@thetopknows.com> wrote:
>>
>>"David J. Allen" <dallen03NO_SPAM@sanNO_SPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
>>news:a1Lzb.3199$WT6.3101@twister.socal.rr.com. ..
>>>
>>> "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>>> news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312031922420.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>>> > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Bill Putney wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Canada's healthcare system sucks.
>>> >
>>> > I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American
>>living
>>> > here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
>>> > better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
>>> > exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the
>>Canadian
>>> > system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs
>>of
>>> > most of the people at a reasonable cost.
>>> >
>>> > DS
>>> >
>>>
>>> That's great. My experience in a French system was that it did fine for
>>> everyday stuff: bandages, pain killers, antibiotics. Even then it could
>>be
>>> a littel scary depending on the doctor you see. I was in an accident and
>>> hurt my hand and wrist. No big deal, but I was rushed to the hospital in
>>a
>>> scary ambulance ride (for sprain wrist!) and then when I got there, they
>>> took my vitals and then took care of my hand. All went well enough until
>>> the doctor saw my pulse rate. She thought is was too slow, dangerously
>>so,
>>> and so perscribed some pills (in a plastic bag) to speed my heart up.
>>When
>>> I got home I promply threw them away. I think my heart rate was in the
>>> 50's, which is not too slow. I felt great. No different than I ever did.
>>>
>>> A friend of mine had a more serious condition and even though he had the
>>> money to see a private doctor, went to the clinic. He went home in a box
>>> because they didn't misdiagnosed his condition.
>>>
>>> The problem was, in my view, that the best doctors wouldn't come near the
>>> socialized system, which paid poorly and rationed care. You cannot avoid
>>> the trade-offs of a socialized system and a private competitive system. A
>>> private system will leave some behind. A socialized system will give
>>> everyone less quality and quantity overall. It's true with any "product".
>>
>>For a local example just look at the VA hospitals.
>>
>>
>Ask any veteran if he or she would give that up. Please. Then duck.

Have you ever actually done that yourself?
Try it, you will be very surprised.

You continually demonstrate that you really don't get out much. Your
view of the world seems to be extremely limited by that ivory tower
you live in.
The fact that you are a teacher doesn't mean you actually know more
than others, you know. A little life experience would do wonders for
you.

You can even visit a VA hospital. Talk to the people there waiting for
services. They won't hurt you at all.
But I can guarantee that they will give you answers that contradict
what you're saying here.

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:36:33 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <vsv15g1jlv50f8@corp.supernews.com>,
> "The Ancient One" <onlytheone@thetopknows.com> wrote:
>>
>>"David J. Allen" <dallen03NO_SPAM@sanNO_SPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
>>news:a1Lzb.3199$WT6.3101@twister.socal.rr.com. ..
>>>
>>> "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>>> news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312031922420.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>>> > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Bill Putney wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Canada's healthcare system sucks.
>>> >
>>> > I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American
>>living
>>> > here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
>>> > better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
>>> > exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the
>>Canadian
>>> > system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs
>>of
>>> > most of the people at a reasonable cost.
>>> >
>>> > DS
>>> >
>>>
>>> That's great. My experience in a French system was that it did fine for
>>> everyday stuff: bandages, pain killers, antibiotics. Even then it could
>>be
>>> a littel scary depending on the doctor you see. I was in an accident and
>>> hurt my hand and wrist. No big deal, but I was rushed to the hospital in
>>a
>>> scary ambulance ride (for sprain wrist!) and then when I got there, they
>>> took my vitals and then took care of my hand. All went well enough until
>>> the doctor saw my pulse rate. She thought is was too slow, dangerously
>>so,
>>> and so perscribed some pills (in a plastic bag) to speed my heart up.
>>When
>>> I got home I promply threw them away. I think my heart rate was in the
>>> 50's, which is not too slow. I felt great. No different than I ever did.
>>>
>>> A friend of mine had a more serious condition and even though he had the
>>> money to see a private doctor, went to the clinic. He went home in a box
>>> because they didn't misdiagnosed his condition.
>>>
>>> The problem was, in my view, that the best doctors wouldn't come near the
>>> socialized system, which paid poorly and rationed care. You cannot avoid
>>> the trade-offs of a socialized system and a private competitive system. A
>>> private system will leave some behind. A socialized system will give
>>> everyone less quality and quantity overall. It's true with any "product".
>>
>>For a local example just look at the VA hospitals.
>>
>>
>Ask any veteran if he or she would give that up. Please. Then duck.

Have you ever actually done that yourself?
Try it, you will be very surprised.

You continually demonstrate that you really don't get out much. Your
view of the world seems to be extremely limited by that ivory tower
you live in.
The fact that you are a teacher doesn't mean you actually know more
than others, you know. A little life experience would do wonders for
you.

You can even visit a VA hospital. Talk to the people there waiting for
services. They won't hurt you at all.
But I can guarantee that they will give you answers that contradict
what you're saying here.

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:36:33 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <vsv15g1jlv50f8@corp.supernews.com>,
> "The Ancient One" <onlytheone@thetopknows.com> wrote:
>>
>>"David J. Allen" <dallen03NO_SPAM@sanNO_SPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
>>news:a1Lzb.3199$WT6.3101@twister.socal.rr.com. ..
>>>
>>> "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>>> news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312031922420.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>>> > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Bill Putney wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Canada's healthcare system sucks.
>>> >
>>> > I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American
>>living
>>> > here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
>>> > better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
>>> > exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the
>>Canadian
>>> > system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs
>>of
>>> > most of the people at a reasonable cost.
>>> >
>>> > DS
>>> >
>>>
>>> That's great. My experience in a French system was that it did fine for
>>> everyday stuff: bandages, pain killers, antibiotics. Even then it could
>>be
>>> a littel scary depending on the doctor you see. I was in an accident and
>>> hurt my hand and wrist. No big deal, but I was rushed to the hospital in
>>a
>>> scary ambulance ride (for sprain wrist!) and then when I got there, they
>>> took my vitals and then took care of my hand. All went well enough until
>>> the doctor saw my pulse rate. She thought is was too slow, dangerously
>>so,
>>> and so perscribed some pills (in a plastic bag) to speed my heart up.
>>When
>>> I got home I promply threw them away. I think my heart rate was in the
>>> 50's, which is not too slow. I felt great. No different than I ever did.
>>>
>>> A friend of mine had a more serious condition and even though he had the
>>> money to see a private doctor, went to the clinic. He went home in a box
>>> because they didn't misdiagnosed his condition.
>>>
>>> The problem was, in my view, that the best doctors wouldn't come near the
>>> socialized system, which paid poorly and rationed care. You cannot avoid
>>> the trade-offs of a socialized system and a private competitive system. A
>>> private system will leave some behind. A socialized system will give
>>> everyone less quality and quantity overall. It's true with any "product".
>>
>>For a local example just look at the VA hospitals.
>>
>>
>Ask any veteran if he or she would give that up. Please. Then duck.

Have you ever actually done that yourself?
Try it, you will be very surprised.

You continually demonstrate that you really don't get out much. Your
view of the world seems to be extremely limited by that ivory tower
you live in.
The fact that you are a teacher doesn't mean you actually know more
than others, you know. A little life experience would do wonders for
you.

You can even visit a VA hospital. Talk to the people there waiting for
services. They won't hurt you at all.
But I can guarantee that they will give you answers that contradict
what you're saying here.

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 15:00:57 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>And if he'd had no insurance or lots of money, how far do you think he would
>have gotten in trying to get a private hospital to do this?

Read what Anthony Principi, Secretary of Veterans Affairs, has to say
about VA healthcare:
http://www.fra.org/mil-up/milup-arch...-02-milup.html

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 15:00:57 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>And if he'd had no insurance or lots of money, how far do you think he would
>have gotten in trying to get a private hospital to do this?

Read what Anthony Principi, Secretary of Veterans Affairs, has to say
about VA healthcare:
http://www.fra.org/mil-up/milup-arch...-02-milup.html

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 15:00:57 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>And if he'd had no insurance or lots of money, how far do you think he would
>have gotten in trying to get a private hospital to do this?

Read what Anthony Principi, Secretary of Veterans Affairs, has to say
about VA healthcare:
http://www.fra.org/mil-up/milup-arch...-02-milup.html

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"