On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:07:05 -0500, Dan Gates
<dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:

>Bill Funk wrote:
>> On Thu, 04 Dec 03 10:09:39 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What does that mean? There are plenty of innovations. Airbus now is outdoing
>>>Boeing in orders, for example. Why? Innovative ideas.
>>
>>
>> Sure.
>> Like Britain, France & Germany giving economic incentives (money) to
>> their airlines to buy Airbus.
>> That's on top of the economic incentives those governments gave to
>> Airbus (subsidies) to help Airbus products.
>> Boeing doesn't get such help. They have to sell their products on
>> merit.
>>
>
>Bwahahahahahahahaha
>
>Only an American would believe that the US is subsidy free. Take a look
>from outside the fishbowl for a change.
>
>Dan

No one said otherwise.
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:07:05 -0500, Dan Gates
<dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:

>Bill Funk wrote:
>> On Thu, 04 Dec 03 10:09:39 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What does that mean? There are plenty of innovations. Airbus now is outdoing
>>>Boeing in orders, for example. Why? Innovative ideas.
>>
>>
>> Sure.
>> Like Britain, France & Germany giving economic incentives (money) to
>> their airlines to buy Airbus.
>> That's on top of the economic incentives those governments gave to
>> Airbus (subsidies) to help Airbus products.
>> Boeing doesn't get such help. They have to sell their products on
>> merit.
>>
>
>Bwahahahahahahahaha
>
>Only an American would believe that the US is subsidy free. Take a look
>from outside the fishbowl for a change.
>
>Dan

No one said otherwise.
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:51:18 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <qhhvsv401vumnf643lop4c5rgjsno9v655@4ax.com>,
> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 04 Dec 03 10:09:39 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Besides, if the gov't pays for health care instead of the employer, that's
>>>reducing the costs to the employer.
>>
>>I guess taxes don't count as a cost.
>>
>When Europe pays less for health care per capita, that would reduce employer
>expenses.

It also reduces health care to a lower common denominator.
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:51:18 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <qhhvsv401vumnf643lop4c5rgjsno9v655@4ax.com>,
> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 04 Dec 03 10:09:39 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Besides, if the gov't pays for health care instead of the employer, that's
>>>reducing the costs to the employer.
>>
>>I guess taxes don't count as a cost.
>>
>When Europe pays less for health care per capita, that would reduce employer
>expenses.

It also reduces health care to a lower common denominator.
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:51:18 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <qhhvsv401vumnf643lop4c5rgjsno9v655@4ax.com>,
> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 04 Dec 03 10:09:39 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Besides, if the gov't pays for health care instead of the employer, that's
>>>reducing the costs to the employer.
>>
>>I guess taxes don't count as a cost.
>>
>When Europe pays less for health care per capita, that would reduce employer
>expenses.

It also reduces health care to a lower common denominator.
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:52:15 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <8shvsvk8ps6p0pau7khu159ridpfhtp5pi@4ax.com>,
> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 04 Dec 03 10:20:24 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <6atssv4pjatpjf2bmiqc1jv17o0dnte89l@4ax.com>,
>>> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>>>On Wed, 03 Dec 03 10:54:53 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <2c7qsvgrtldnv0d50g0u57c2j0cadcc7if@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>>>>>On Tue, 02 Dec 03 15:37:02 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <Us5zb.282500$275.1000782@attbi_s53>,
>>>>>>> tetraethyllead@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:
>>>>>>>>In article <bqinb6$him$8@puck.cc.emory.edu>, Lloyd Parker wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, it'd be terrible if everybody were covered and we spent less on
>>>>>>>health
>>>>>>>>> care, as Europe, Canada, and Japan do, wouldn't it? Terrible for
>>>>>insurance
>>>>>>>>> companies, drug companies, HMOs, etc, that is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>How would we spend "less on health care" ? Instead of paying for health
>>>>>>>>insurance we would pay *AT LEAST* that much in additional taxes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why is it, then, that every western European nation, plus Canada and
>>>Japan,
>>>>>>>spend less per capita on health care than the US yet still cover
>>>everybody?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Lloyd, you might want to do a Google search on the keywords:
>>>>>>canadian health care problems
>>>>>>This would let you see reality instead of the utopia your liberal
>>>>>>friends promise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh great, he wants me to absorb his right-wing propaganda.
>>>>>
>>>>>Try this:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.e...tics/HealthCar
>e/
>>>Co
>>>>>nsumerReports-Sep92.html.gz#Does%20Canada%20Have%20The%20Answer?
>>>>
>>>>Consumer Reports???
>>>>You've GOT to be kidding.
>>>>
>>>Why is it all the right-wing Taliban here would believe anything an HMO or
>>>drug company tells them but reject the main voice for the consumer?
>>
>>Lloyd, you must be on drugs. The illegal kind.
>>CR is "the main voice for the consumer"??
>
>Yes.
>
>>Where did you get that from??
>
>Common sense, the fact that consumer columns and consumer shows always cite
>them...

Always?
Try again, and this time look outside your liberal handbook.
>
>I guess you buy into "whatever a business says, shut up and take it"?

Where do you get this stuff?
You sure have a healthy imagination.
Oh, sorry, I'm wrong there. You just read this straight from your
handbook, and can't actually back it up.
When the handbook fails, you use namecalling to tryt o make a point.
Taliban? Do you even know what the Taliban was? Can you actually make
a valid comparison between the Taliban and consertavism?
Let's see, what page would that be on... ?
>
>>No wonder you're the laughing stock you are.
>
>
>
>>Anytime you want to step out of that ivory tower you live in and join
>>the real world, you're welcome. Be prepared for a shock, though.
>>

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:52:15 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <8shvsvk8ps6p0pau7khu159ridpfhtp5pi@4ax.com>,
> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 04 Dec 03 10:20:24 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <6atssv4pjatpjf2bmiqc1jv17o0dnte89l@4ax.com>,
>>> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>>>On Wed, 03 Dec 03 10:54:53 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <2c7qsvgrtldnv0d50g0u57c2j0cadcc7if@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>>>>>On Tue, 02 Dec 03 15:37:02 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <Us5zb.282500$275.1000782@attbi_s53>,
>>>>>>> tetraethyllead@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:
>>>>>>>>In article <bqinb6$him$8@puck.cc.emory.edu>, Lloyd Parker wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, it'd be terrible if everybody were covered and we spent less on
>>>>>>>health
>>>>>>>>> care, as Europe, Canada, and Japan do, wouldn't it? Terrible for
>>>>>insurance
>>>>>>>>> companies, drug companies, HMOs, etc, that is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>How would we spend "less on health care" ? Instead of paying for health
>>>>>>>>insurance we would pay *AT LEAST* that much in additional taxes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why is it, then, that every western European nation, plus Canada and
>>>Japan,
>>>>>>>spend less per capita on health care than the US yet still cover
>>>everybody?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Lloyd, you might want to do a Google search on the keywords:
>>>>>>canadian health care problems
>>>>>>This would let you see reality instead of the utopia your liberal
>>>>>>friends promise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh great, he wants me to absorb his right-wing propaganda.
>>>>>
>>>>>Try this:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.e...tics/HealthCar
>e/
>>>Co
>>>>>nsumerReports-Sep92.html.gz#Does%20Canada%20Have%20The%20Answer?
>>>>
>>>>Consumer Reports???
>>>>You've GOT to be kidding.
>>>>
>>>Why is it all the right-wing Taliban here would believe anything an HMO or
>>>drug company tells them but reject the main voice for the consumer?
>>
>>Lloyd, you must be on drugs. The illegal kind.
>>CR is "the main voice for the consumer"??
>
>Yes.
>
>>Where did you get that from??
>
>Common sense, the fact that consumer columns and consumer shows always cite
>them...

Always?
Try again, and this time look outside your liberal handbook.
>
>I guess you buy into "whatever a business says, shut up and take it"?

Where do you get this stuff?
You sure have a healthy imagination.
Oh, sorry, I'm wrong there. You just read this straight from your
handbook, and can't actually back it up.
When the handbook fails, you use namecalling to tryt o make a point.
Taliban? Do you even know what the Taliban was? Can you actually make
a valid comparison between the Taliban and consertavism?
Let's see, what page would that be on... ?
>
>>No wonder you're the laughing stock you are.
>
>
>
>>Anytime you want to step out of that ivory tower you live in and join
>>the real world, you're welcome. Be prepared for a shock, though.
>>

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 03 10:52:15 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <8shvsvk8ps6p0pau7khu159ridpfhtp5pi@4ax.com>,
> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 04 Dec 03 10:20:24 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <6atssv4pjatpjf2bmiqc1jv17o0dnte89l@4ax.com>,
>>> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>>>On Wed, 03 Dec 03 10:54:53 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <2c7qsvgrtldnv0d50g0u57c2j0cadcc7if@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Bill Funk <bfunk33@pipping.com> wrote:
>>>>>>On Tue, 02 Dec 03 15:37:02 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <Us5zb.282500$275.1000782@attbi_s53>,
>>>>>>> tetraethyllead@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:
>>>>>>>>In article <bqinb6$him$8@puck.cc.emory.edu>, Lloyd Parker wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, it'd be terrible if everybody were covered and we spent less on
>>>>>>>health
>>>>>>>>> care, as Europe, Canada, and Japan do, wouldn't it? Terrible for
>>>>>insurance
>>>>>>>>> companies, drug companies, HMOs, etc, that is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>How would we spend "less on health care" ? Instead of paying for health
>>>>>>>>insurance we would pay *AT LEAST* that much in additional taxes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why is it, then, that every western European nation, plus Canada and
>>>Japan,
>>>>>>>spend less per capita on health care than the US yet still cover
>>>everybody?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Lloyd, you might want to do a Google search on the keywords:
>>>>>>canadian health care problems
>>>>>>This would let you see reality instead of the utopia your liberal
>>>>>>friends promise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh great, he wants me to absorb his right-wing propaganda.
>>>>>
>>>>>Try this:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.e...tics/HealthCar
>e/
>>>Co
>>>>>nsumerReports-Sep92.html.gz#Does%20Canada%20Have%20The%20Answer?
>>>>
>>>>Consumer Reports???
>>>>You've GOT to be kidding.
>>>>
>>>Why is it all the right-wing Taliban here would believe anything an HMO or
>>>drug company tells them but reject the main voice for the consumer?
>>
>>Lloyd, you must be on drugs. The illegal kind.
>>CR is "the main voice for the consumer"??
>
>Yes.
>
>>Where did you get that from??
>
>Common sense, the fact that consumer columns and consumer shows always cite
>them...

Always?
Try again, and this time look outside your liberal handbook.
>
>I guess you buy into "whatever a business says, shut up and take it"?

Where do you get this stuff?
You sure have a healthy imagination.
Oh, sorry, I'm wrong there. You just read this straight from your
handbook, and can't actually back it up.
When the handbook fails, you use namecalling to tryt o make a point.
Taliban? Do you even know what the Taliban was? Can you actually make
a valid comparison between the Taliban and consertavism?
Let's see, what page would that be on... ?
>
>>No wonder you're the laughing stock you are.
>
>
>
>>Anytime you want to step out of that ivory tower you live in and join
>>the real world, you're welcome. Be prepared for a shock, though.
>>

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:12:42 -0500, Dan Gates
<dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:

>Bill Funk wrote:
>> On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:55:00 -0500, Dan Gates
>> <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Let me just add:
>>> Can US
>>>
>>>
>>>Infant mortality/ 1,000
>>>live births 5 7
>>>
>>>Prob. of dying/1,000
>>>Age 5, Males 6 8
>>>Age 5, Females 5 8
>>>
>>>Age 15-59, Males 104 148
>>>Age 15-59, Females 59 85
>>
>>
>> Point out, while you're at it, that these figures say absolutely
>> nothing about health care, one way or another.
>>
>
>
>They certainly must, because to listen to any number of Americans, life
>is so tough up here what with the cold and snow and the high taxes and
>the low dollar and the poor productivity and the poor democracy, our
>lives are much harder to live, we should have much poorer life expectancies.

That's hogwash, and you know it.
Hyperbole isn't to be taken seriously.
>
>The figures cited are pretty standard measures of health care efficacy.
> Since the US and Canada are so similar, demographically, health care
>must be the difference.

As has been pointed out far too many times for you to NOT have seen it
by now, correlation does not equal causation.
>
>Dan

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

 

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:12:42 -0500, Dan Gates
<dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:

>Bill Funk wrote:
>> On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:55:00 -0500, Dan Gates
>> <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Let me just add:
>>> Can US
>>>
>>>
>>>Infant mortality/ 1,000
>>>live births 5 7
>>>
>>>Prob. of dying/1,000
>>>Age 5, Males 6 8
>>>Age 5, Females 5 8
>>>
>>>Age 15-59, Males 104 148
>>>Age 15-59, Females 59 85
>>
>>
>> Point out, while you're at it, that these figures say absolutely
>> nothing about health care, one way or another.
>>
>
>
>They certainly must, because to listen to any number of Americans, life
>is so tough up here what with the cold and snow and the high taxes and
>the low dollar and the poor productivity and the poor democracy, our
>lives are much harder to live, we should have much poorer life expectancies.

That's hogwash, and you know it.
Hyperbole isn't to be taken seriously.
>
>The figures cited are pretty standard measures of health care efficacy.
> Since the US and Canada are so similar, demographically, health care
>must be the difference.

As has been pointed out far too many times for you to NOT have seen it
by now, correlation does not equal causation.
>
>Dan

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"