bllsht

One other quick check while it's hooked up. If the diaphragm has ruptured, you
can feel vacuum on the signal nipple while the engine is idling, due to the
manifold vacuum that's applied below the diaphragm. Since the ported vacuum to
the canister is the same ported vacuum source for EGR operation, under some
conditions, it could cause excessive EGR. Just a little trivia...

Not sure about the warranty on over-the-counter parts. If you bought it in '99,
I wouldn't expect any. :-)

In message <4043AA9B.800082AA@sympatico.ca>, "Mike Romain" wrote:

>That figures. They are a dealer only item and one of those leaky
>suckers is on my Jeep!
>
>I got mine for less than $70.00 in 1999, then the ****** doubled the
>price in 2001.
>
>Hmm, I wonder how long the warranty is for? I save receipts....
>
>Mike
>
>bllsht wrote:
>>
>> If they were leaking, they were bad. I've come across a few that were defective
>> out of the box, but they are supposed to hold vacuum. It's a solid rubber
>> diaphragm.
>>
>> The test is straight out of the FSM.
>>
>> In message <4040A6D0.20995E5F@sympatico.ca>, "Mike Romain" wrote:
>>
>> >I have seen 4 new canisters and not one of them would 'hold' a vacuum on
>> >that diaphragm port.
>> >
>> >Those are not a solid vacuum part, but have a leak down rate it would
>> >appear, something like some EGR valves.
>> >
>> >That is why I couldn't offer any proper way to test them off the engine.
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> >bllsht wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In message <c1ns2a$1k9hvi$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de>, "William Oliveri"
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Mike,
>> >> >Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
>> >>
>> >> The part that fails is the purge valve diaphragm. It's operated by ported
>> >> vacuum being applied on the smallest nipple on the canister. Apply vacuum to
>> >> that nipple and it should hold. If it doesn't hold vacuum, the diaphragm has
>> >> ruptured and you need a new canister.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
>> >>
>> >> No.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube, throttle
>> >> >body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
>> >> >nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the oil
>> >> >I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
>> >> >couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you discribe.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Bill
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >> Too bad you are so far away.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
>> >> >> money.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Something really strange is going on.....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
>> >> >> just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
>> >> >> oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
>> >> >> amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it. (unless
>> >> >> it is gas wash)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow by
>> >> >> to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in a
>> >> >> week.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
>> >> >> think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
>> >> >> you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
>> >> >> little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
>> >> >> almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
>> >> >> piston.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
>> >> >> 'gas wash'.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Good luck Bill!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I am out of ideas.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mike
>> >> >>
>> >> >> William Oliveri wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
>> >> >injector
>> >> >> > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to be
>> >> >> > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
>> >> >> > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
>> >> >> > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
>> >> >same
>> >> >> > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt and
>> >> >ran
>> >> >> > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
>> >> >stains.
>> >> >> > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle body
>> >> >and
>> >> >> > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to when
>> >> >I
>> >> >> > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got worse
>> >> >in
>> >> >> > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the throttle
>> >> >body.
>> >> >> > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy about
>> >> >> > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting only
>> >> >#2?
>> >> >> > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Bill
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >> > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >> > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to find
>> >> >> > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Mike
>> >> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > William Oliveri wrote:
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
>> >> >pistons.
>> >> >

bllsht

One other quick check while it's hooked up. If the diaphragm has ruptured, you
can feel vacuum on the signal nipple while the engine is idling, due to the
manifold vacuum that's applied below the diaphragm. Since the ported vacuum to
the canister is the same ported vacuum source for EGR operation, under some
conditions, it could cause excessive EGR. Just a little trivia...

Not sure about the warranty on over-the-counter parts. If you bought it in '99,
I wouldn't expect any. :-)

In message <4043AA9B.800082AA@sympatico.ca>, "Mike Romain" wrote:

>That figures. They are a dealer only item and one of those leaky
>suckers is on my Jeep!
>
>I got mine for less than $70.00 in 1999, then the ****** doubled the
>price in 2001.
>
>Hmm, I wonder how long the warranty is for? I save receipts....
>
>Mike
>
>bllsht wrote:
>>
>> If they were leaking, they were bad. I've come across a few that were defective
>> out of the box, but they are supposed to hold vacuum. It's a solid rubber
>> diaphragm.
>>
>> The test is straight out of the FSM.
>>
>> In message <4040A6D0.20995E5F@sympatico.ca>, "Mike Romain" wrote:
>>
>> >I have seen 4 new canisters and not one of them would 'hold' a vacuum on
>> >that diaphragm port.
>> >
>> >Those are not a solid vacuum part, but have a leak down rate it would
>> >appear, something like some EGR valves.
>> >
>> >That is why I couldn't offer any proper way to test them off the engine.
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> >bllsht wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In message <c1ns2a$1k9hvi$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de>, "William Oliveri"
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Mike,
>> >> >Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
>> >>
>> >> The part that fails is the purge valve diaphragm. It's operated by ported
>> >> vacuum being applied on the smallest nipple on the canister. Apply vacuum to
>> >> that nipple and it should hold. If it doesn't hold vacuum, the diaphragm has
>> >> ruptured and you need a new canister.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
>> >>
>> >> No.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube, throttle
>> >> >body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
>> >> >nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the oil
>> >> >I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
>> >> >couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you discribe.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Bill
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >> Too bad you are so far away.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
>> >> >> money.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Something really strange is going on.....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
>> >> >> just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
>> >> >> oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
>> >> >> amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it. (unless
>> >> >> it is gas wash)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow by
>> >> >> to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in a
>> >> >> week.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
>> >> >> think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
>> >> >> you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
>> >> >> little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
>> >> >> almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
>> >> >> piston.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
>> >> >> 'gas wash'.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Good luck Bill!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I am out of ideas.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mike
>> >> >>
>> >> >> William Oliveri wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
>> >> >injector
>> >> >> > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to be
>> >> >> > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
>> >> >> > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
>> >> >> > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
>> >> >same
>> >> >> > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt and
>> >> >ran
>> >> >> > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
>> >> >stains.
>> >> >> > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle body
>> >> >and
>> >> >> > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to when
>> >> >I
>> >> >> > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got worse
>> >> >in
>> >> >> > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the throttle
>> >> >body.
>> >> >> > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy about
>> >> >> > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting only
>> >> >#2?
>> >> >> > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Bill
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >> > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
>> >> >> > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to find
>> >> >> > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Mike
>> >> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > William Oliveri wrote:
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
>> >> >pistons.
>> >> >

Mike Romain

That would be like pinching the tube to the manifold closed while
idling. If the idle changes, it is toast.

I will give mine a check.

Mike

bllsht wrote:
>
> One other quick check while it's hooked up. If the diaphragm has ruptured, you
> can feel vacuum on the signal nipple while the engine is idling, due to the
> manifold vacuum that's applied below the diaphragm. Since the ported vacuum to
> the canister is the same ported vacuum source for EGR operation, under some
> conditions, it could cause excessive EGR. Just a little trivia...
>
> Not sure about the warranty on over-the-counter parts. If you bought it in '99,
> I wouldn't expect any. :-)
>
> In message <4043AA9B.800082AA@sympatico.ca>, "Mike Romain" wrote:
>
> >That figures. They are a dealer only item and one of those leaky
> >suckers is on my Jeep!
> >
> >I got mine for less than $70.00 in 1999, then the ****** doubled the
> >price in 2001.
> >
> >Hmm, I wonder how long the warranty is for? I save receipts....
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >bllsht wrote:
> >>
> >> If they were leaking, they were bad. I've come across a few that were defective
> >> out of the box, but they are supposed to hold vacuum. It's a solid rubber
> >> diaphragm.
> >>
> >> The test is straight out of the FSM.
> >>
> >> In message <4040A6D0.20995E5F@sympatico.ca>, "Mike Romain" wrote:
> >>
> >> >I have seen 4 new canisters and not one of them would 'hold' a vacuum on
> >> >that diaphragm port.
> >> >
> >> >Those are not a solid vacuum part, but have a leak down rate it would
> >> >appear, something like some EGR valves.
> >> >
> >> >That is why I couldn't offer any proper way to test them off the engine.
> >> >
> >> >Mike
> >> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> >
> >> >bllsht wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> In message <c1ns2a$1k9hvi$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de>, "William Oliveri"
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Mike,
> >> >> >Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> >> >>
> >> >> The part that fails is the purge valve diaphragm. It's operated by ported
> >> >> vacuum being applied on the smallest nipple on the canister. Apply vacuum to
> >> >> that nipple and it should hold. If it doesn't hold vacuum, the diaphragm has
> >> >> ruptured and you need a new canister.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> >> >>
> >> >> No.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube, throttle
> >> >> >body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> >> >> >nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the oil
> >> >> >I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> >> >> >couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you discribe.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bill
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> >> >> >> Too bad you are so far away.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> >> >> >> money.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Something really strange is going on.....
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> >> >> >> just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> >> >> >> oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> >> >> >> amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it. (unless
> >> >> >> it is gas wash)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow by
> >> >> >> to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in a
> >> >> >> week.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> >> >> >> think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> >> >> >> you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> >> >> >> little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> >> >> >> almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> >> >> >> piston.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> >> >> >> 'gas wash'.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Good luck Bill!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I am out of ideas.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Mike
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> William Oliveri wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> >> >> >injector
> >> >> >> > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to be
> >> >> >> > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> >> >> >> > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> >> >> >> > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> >> >> >same
> >> >> >> > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt and
> >> >> >ran
> >> >> >> > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> >> >> >stains.
> >> >> >> > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle body
> >> >> >and
> >> >> >> > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to when
> >> >> >I
> >> >> >> > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got worse
> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the throttle
> >> >> >body.
> >> >> >> > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy about
> >> >> >> > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting only
> >> >> >#2?
> >> >> >> > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Thanks,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Bill
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> >> >> > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> >> >> >> > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to find
> >> >> >> > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Mike
> >> >> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> >> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> >> >> >pistons.
> >> >> >

Mike Romain

That would be like pinching the tube to the manifold closed while
idling. If the idle changes, it is toast.

I will give mine a check.

Mike

bllsht wrote:
>
> One other quick check while it's hooked up. If the diaphragm has ruptured, you
> can feel vacuum on the signal nipple while the engine is idling, due to the
> manifold vacuum that's applied below the diaphragm. Since the ported vacuum to
> the canister is the same ported vacuum source for EGR operation, under some
> conditions, it could cause excessive EGR. Just a little trivia...
>
> Not sure about the warranty on over-the-counter parts. If you bought it in '99,
> I wouldn't expect any. :-)
>
> In message <4043AA9B.800082AA@sympatico.ca>, "Mike Romain" wrote:
>
> >That figures. They are a dealer only item and one of those leaky
> >suckers is on my Jeep!
> >
> >I got mine for less than $70.00 in 1999, then the ****** doubled the
> >price in 2001.
> >
> >Hmm, I wonder how long the warranty is for? I save receipts....
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >bllsht wrote:
> >>
> >> If they were leaking, they were bad. I've come across a few that were defective
> >> out of the box, but they are supposed to hold vacuum. It's a solid rubber
> >> diaphragm.
> >>
> >> The test is straight out of the FSM.
> >>
> >> In message <4040A6D0.20995E5F@sympatico.ca>, "Mike Romain" wrote:
> >>
> >> >I have seen 4 new canisters and not one of them would 'hold' a vacuum on
> >> >that diaphragm port.
> >> >
> >> >Those are not a solid vacuum part, but have a leak down rate it would
> >> >appear, something like some EGR valves.
> >> >
> >> >That is why I couldn't offer any proper way to test them off the engine.
> >> >
> >> >Mike
> >> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> >
> >> >bllsht wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> In message <c1ns2a$1k9hvi$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de>, "William Oliveri"
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Mike,
> >> >> >Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> >> >>
> >> >> The part that fails is the purge valve diaphragm. It's operated by ported
> >> >> vacuum being applied on the smallest nipple on the canister. Apply vacuum to
> >> >> that nipple and it should hold. If it doesn't hold vacuum, the diaphragm has
> >> >> ruptured and you need a new canister.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> >> >>
> >> >> No.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube, throttle
> >> >> >body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> >> >> >nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the oil
> >> >> >I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> >> >> >couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you discribe.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bill
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> >> >> >> Too bad you are so far away.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> >> >> >> money.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Something really strange is going on.....
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> >> >> >> just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> >> >> >> oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> >> >> >> amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it. (unless
> >> >> >> it is gas wash)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow by
> >> >> >> to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in a
> >> >> >> week.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> >> >> >> think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> >> >> >> you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> >> >> >> little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> >> >> >> almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> >> >> >> piston.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> >> >> >> 'gas wash'.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Good luck Bill!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I am out of ideas.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Mike
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> William Oliveri wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> >> >> >injector
> >> >> >> > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to be
> >> >> >> > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> >> >> >> > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> >> >> >> > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> >> >> >same
> >> >> >> > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt and
> >> >> >ran
> >> >> >> > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> >> >> >stains.
> >> >> >> > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle body
> >> >> >and
> >> >> >> > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to when
> >> >> >I
> >> >> >> > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got worse
> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the throttle
> >> >> >body.
> >> >> >> > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy about
> >> >> >> > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting only
> >> >> >#2?
> >> >> >> > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Thanks,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Bill
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> >> >> > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> >> >> >> > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to find
> >> >> >> > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Mike
> >> >> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> >> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> >> >> >pistons.
> >> >> >

Mike Romain

That would be like pinching the tube to the manifold closed while
idling. If the idle changes, it is toast.

I will give mine a check.

Mike

bllsht wrote:
>
> One other quick check while it's hooked up. If the diaphragm has ruptured, you
> can feel vacuum on the signal nipple while the engine is idling, due to the
> manifold vacuum that's applied below the diaphragm. Since the ported vacuum to
> the canister is the same ported vacuum source for EGR operation, under some
> conditions, it could cause excessive EGR. Just a little trivia...
>
> Not sure about the warranty on over-the-counter parts. If you bought it in '99,
> I wouldn't expect any. :-)
>
> In message <4043AA9B.800082AA@sympatico.ca>, "Mike Romain" wrote:
>
> >That figures. They are a dealer only item and one of those leaky
> >suckers is on my Jeep!
> >
> >I got mine for less than $70.00 in 1999, then the ****** doubled the
> >price in 2001.
> >
> >Hmm, I wonder how long the warranty is for? I save receipts....
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >bllsht wrote:
> >>
> >> If they were leaking, they were bad. I've come across a few that were defective
> >> out of the box, but they are supposed to hold vacuum. It's a solid rubber
> >> diaphragm.
> >>
> >> The test is straight out of the FSM.
> >>
> >> In message <4040A6D0.20995E5F@sympatico.ca>, "Mike Romain" wrote:
> >>
> >> >I have seen 4 new canisters and not one of them would 'hold' a vacuum on
> >> >that diaphragm port.
> >> >
> >> >Those are not a solid vacuum part, but have a leak down rate it would
> >> >appear, something like some EGR valves.
> >> >
> >> >That is why I couldn't offer any proper way to test them off the engine.
> >> >
> >> >Mike
> >> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> >
> >> >bllsht wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> In message <c1ns2a$1k9hvi$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de>, "William Oliveri"
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Mike,
> >> >> >Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> >> >>
> >> >> The part that fails is the purge valve diaphragm. It's operated by ported
> >> >> vacuum being applied on the smallest nipple on the canister. Apply vacuum to
> >> >> that nipple and it should hold. If it doesn't hold vacuum, the diaphragm has
> >> >> ruptured and you need a new canister.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> >> >>
> >> >> No.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube, throttle
> >> >> >body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> >> >> >nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the oil
> >> >> >I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> >> >> >couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you discribe.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bill
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> >> >> >> Too bad you are so far away.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> >> >> >> money.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Something really strange is going on.....
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> >> >> >> just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> >> >> >> oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> >> >> >> amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it. (unless
> >> >> >> it is gas wash)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow by
> >> >> >> to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in a
> >> >> >> week.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> >> >> >> think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> >> >> >> you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> >> >> >> little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> >> >> >> almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> >> >> >> piston.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> >> >> >> 'gas wash'.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Good luck Bill!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I am out of ideas.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Mike
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> William Oliveri wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> >> >> >injector
> >> >> >> > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to be
> >> >> >> > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> >> >> >> > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> >> >> >> > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> >> >> >same
> >> >> >> > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt and
> >> >> >ran
> >> >> >> > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> >> >> >stains.
> >> >> >> > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle body
> >> >> >and
> >> >> >> > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to when
> >> >> >I
> >> >> >> > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got worse
> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the throttle
> >> >> >body.
> >> >> >> > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy about
> >> >> >> > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting only
> >> >> >#2?
> >> >> >> > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Thanks,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Bill
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> >> >> > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> >> >> >> > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to find
> >> >> >> > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Mike
> >> >> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> >> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> >> >> >pistons.
> >> >> >