Discovered Bore
02-27-2004, 04:58 PM
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Discovered Bore
What a great idea!!!!
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:403FB90F.8730D319@***.net...
> Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
>
http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Steve G wrote:
> >
> > From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over
doesn't
> > mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at
the
> > top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate
for a
> > re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack
those
> > pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> > under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil
dripping
> > in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> > Yourself)world.
> > Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are
marked.
> > Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> > side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If
they're
> > not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> > punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it
and so
> > on for all rods.
> > Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to
measure
> > for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it
for
> > you and tell you what oversize if any.
> > Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as
there
> > appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good
head
> > back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> > If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and
you
> > determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> > disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your
bench
> > grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to
the
> > cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> > valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> > procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between
valve
> > and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> > back together and you're good to go.
> > This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your
buying
> > level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200.
Again, go
> > to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul.
An
> > old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> > routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high
cost
> > of labor and the longevity of engines.
> > Steve
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:403FB90F.8730D319@***.net...
> Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
>
http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Steve G wrote:
> >
> > From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over
doesn't
> > mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at
the
> > top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate
for a
> > re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack
those
> > pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> > under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil
dripping
> > in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> > Yourself)world.
> > Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are
marked.
> > Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> > side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If
they're
> > not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> > punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it
and so
> > on for all rods.
> > Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to
measure
> > for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it
for
> > you and tell you what oversize if any.
> > Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as
there
> > appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good
head
> > back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> > If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and
you
> > determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> > disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your
bench
> > grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to
the
> > cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> > valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> > procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between
valve
> > and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> > back together and you're good to go.
> > This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your
buying
> > level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200.
Again, go
> > to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul.
An
> > old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> > routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high
cost
> > of labor and the longevity of engines.
> > Steve
02-27-2004, 04:58 PM
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Discovered Bore
What a great idea!!!!
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:403FB90F.8730D319@***.net...
> Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
>
http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Steve G wrote:
> >
> > From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over
doesn't
> > mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at
the
> > top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate
for a
> > re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack
those
> > pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> > under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil
dripping
> > in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> > Yourself)world.
> > Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are
marked.
> > Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> > side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If
they're
> > not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> > punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it
and so
> > on for all rods.
> > Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to
measure
> > for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it
for
> > you and tell you what oversize if any.
> > Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as
there
> > appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good
head
> > back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> > If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and
you
> > determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> > disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your
bench
> > grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to
the
> > cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> > valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> > procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between
valve
> > and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> > back together and you're good to go.
> > This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your
buying
> > level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200.
Again, go
> > to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul.
An
> > old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> > routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high
cost
> > of labor and the longevity of engines.
> > Steve
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:403FB90F.8730D319@***.net...
> Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
>
http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Steve G wrote:
> >
> > From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over
doesn't
> > mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at
the
> > top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate
for a
> > re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack
those
> > pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> > under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil
dripping
> > in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> > Yourself)world.
> > Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are
marked.
> > Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> > side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If
they're
> > not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> > punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it
and so
> > on for all rods.
> > Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to
measure
> > for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it
for
> > you and tell you what oversize if any.
> > Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as
there
> > appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good
head
> > back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> > If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and
you
> > determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> > disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your
bench
> > grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to
the
> > cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> > valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> > procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between
valve
> > and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> > back together and you're good to go.
> > This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your
buying
> > level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200.
Again, go
> > to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul.
An
> > old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> > routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high
cost
> > of labor and the longevity of engines.
> > Steve
02-27-2004, 06:12 PM
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Discovered Bore
One of his first complaints was no spark on that cylinder. I said gas
issues.
He has not changed injectors.
Mike
Steve G wrote:
>
> I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
> loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading it
> there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
> complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he did
> the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
> first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to have
> that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have that
> problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
> cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
> first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
> remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
> would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of the
> intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't recall
> if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
> that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if the
> take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
> My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often enough
> to say that's what they look like.
> Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would have
> wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
> cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
> etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil above
> the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
> gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
> mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I think
> about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it a
> severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
> dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
> He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
> Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the rings
> or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
> valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
> entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would lead
> to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
> rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
> excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when first
> starting until oil pressure came up.
> I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the looks
> of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're so
> gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
> replaced.
> One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
> second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
> ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
> indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
> problem.
> Steve
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> > The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> > and at speed.
> >
> > If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> > oil blows into the air filter.
> >
> > The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> > PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> > canister purge is dead.
> >
> > A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> > and down and surge slightly.
> >
> > No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> > believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> > bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> > the cylinders.
> >
> > When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> > lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> > or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> > have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
> >
> > I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
> >
> > How was the gas mileage on that engine?
> >
> > If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> > happens before spending a dime on it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> > >
> > > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
> throttle
> > > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the
> oil
> > > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> > > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
> discribe.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > > >
> > > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > > money.
> > > >
> > > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > > >
> > > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > > >
> > > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> > > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > > >
> > > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> > > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > > >
> > > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > > >
> > > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
> (unless
> > > > it is gas wash)
> > > >
> > > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow b
> y
> > > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in
> a
> > > > week.
> > > >
> > > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> > > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> > > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > > >
> > > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> > > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> > > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> > > > piston.
> > > >
> > > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> > > > 'gas wash'.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck Bill!
> > > >
> > > > I am out of ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > > injector
> > > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to
> be
> > > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> > > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> > > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> > > same
> > > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt
> and
> > > ran
> > > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> > > stains.
> > > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle
> body
> > > and
> > > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
> when
> > > I
> > > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
> worse
> > > in
> > > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
> throttle
> > > body.
> > > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
> about
> > > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting
> only
> > > #2?
> > > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
> find
> > > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> > > pistons.
issues.
He has not changed injectors.
Mike
Steve G wrote:
>
> I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
> loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading it
> there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
> complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he did
> the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
> first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to have
> that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have that
> problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
> cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
> first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
> remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
> would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of the
> intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't recall
> if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
> that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if the
> take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
> My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often enough
> to say that's what they look like.
> Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would have
> wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
> cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
> etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil above
> the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
> gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
> mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I think
> about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it a
> severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
> dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
> He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
> Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the rings
> or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
> valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
> entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would lead
> to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
> rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
> excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when first
> starting until oil pressure came up.
> I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the looks
> of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're so
> gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
> replaced.
> One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
> second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
> ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
> indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
> problem.
> Steve
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> > The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> > and at speed.
> >
> > If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> > oil blows into the air filter.
> >
> > The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> > PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> > canister purge is dead.
> >
> > A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> > and down and surge slightly.
> >
> > No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> > believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> > bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> > the cylinders.
> >
> > When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> > lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> > or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> > have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
> >
> > I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
> >
> > How was the gas mileage on that engine?
> >
> > If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> > happens before spending a dime on it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> > >
> > > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
> throttle
> > > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the
> oil
> > > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> > > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
> discribe.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > > >
> > > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > > money.
> > > >
> > > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > > >
> > > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > > >
> > > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> > > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > > >
> > > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> > > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > > >
> > > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > > >
> > > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
> (unless
> > > > it is gas wash)
> > > >
> > > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow b
> y
> > > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in
> a
> > > > week.
> > > >
> > > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> > > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> > > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > > >
> > > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> > > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> > > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> > > > piston.
> > > >
> > > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> > > > 'gas wash'.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck Bill!
> > > >
> > > > I am out of ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > > injector
> > > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to
> be
> > > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> > > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> > > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> > > same
> > > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt
> and
> > > ran
> > > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> > > stains.
> > > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle
> body
> > > and
> > > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
> when
> > > I
> > > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
> worse
> > > in
> > > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
> throttle
> > > body.
> > > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
> about
> > > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting
> only
> > > #2?
> > > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
> find
> > > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> > > pistons.
02-27-2004, 06:12 PM
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Discovered Bore
One of his first complaints was no spark on that cylinder. I said gas
issues.
He has not changed injectors.
Mike
Steve G wrote:
>
> I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
> loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading it
> there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
> complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he did
> the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
> first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to have
> that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have that
> problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
> cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
> first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
> remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
> would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of the
> intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't recall
> if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
> that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if the
> take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
> My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often enough
> to say that's what they look like.
> Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would have
> wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
> cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
> etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil above
> the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
> gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
> mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I think
> about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it a
> severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
> dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
> He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
> Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the rings
> or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
> valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
> entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would lead
> to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
> rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
> excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when first
> starting until oil pressure came up.
> I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the looks
> of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're so
> gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
> replaced.
> One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
> second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
> ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
> indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
> problem.
> Steve
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> > The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> > and at speed.
> >
> > If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> > oil blows into the air filter.
> >
> > The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> > PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> > canister purge is dead.
> >
> > A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> > and down and surge slightly.
> >
> > No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> > believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> > bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> > the cylinders.
> >
> > When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> > lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> > or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> > have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
> >
> > I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
> >
> > How was the gas mileage on that engine?
> >
> > If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> > happens before spending a dime on it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> > >
> > > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
> throttle
> > > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the
> oil
> > > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> > > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
> discribe.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > > >
> > > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > > money.
> > > >
> > > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > > >
> > > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > > >
> > > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> > > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > > >
> > > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> > > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > > >
> > > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > > >
> > > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
> (unless
> > > > it is gas wash)
> > > >
> > > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow b
> y
> > > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in
> a
> > > > week.
> > > >
> > > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> > > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> > > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > > >
> > > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> > > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> > > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> > > > piston.
> > > >
> > > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> > > > 'gas wash'.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck Bill!
> > > >
> > > > I am out of ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > > injector
> > > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to
> be
> > > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> > > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> > > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> > > same
> > > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt
> and
> > > ran
> > > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> > > stains.
> > > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle
> body
> > > and
> > > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
> when
> > > I
> > > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
> worse
> > > in
> > > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
> throttle
> > > body.
> > > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
> about
> > > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting
> only
> > > #2?
> > > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
> find
> > > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> > > pistons.
issues.
He has not changed injectors.
Mike
Steve G wrote:
>
> I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
> loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading it
> there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
> complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he did
> the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
> first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to have
> that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have that
> problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
> cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
> first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
> remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
> would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of the
> intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't recall
> if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
> that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if the
> take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
> My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often enough
> to say that's what they look like.
> Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would have
> wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
> cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
> etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil above
> the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
> gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
> mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I think
> about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it a
> severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
> dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
> He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
> Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the rings
> or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
> valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
> entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would lead
> to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
> rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
> excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when first
> starting until oil pressure came up.
> I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the looks
> of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're so
> gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
> replaced.
> One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
> second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
> ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
> indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
> problem.
> Steve
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> > The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> > and at speed.
> >
> > If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> > oil blows into the air filter.
> >
> > The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> > PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> > canister purge is dead.
> >
> > A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> > and down and surge slightly.
> >
> > No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> > believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> > bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> > the cylinders.
> >
> > When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> > lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> > or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> > have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
> >
> > I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
> >
> > How was the gas mileage on that engine?
> >
> > If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> > happens before spending a dime on it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> > >
> > > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
> throttle
> > > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the
> oil
> > > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> > > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
> discribe.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > > >
> > > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > > money.
> > > >
> > > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > > >
> > > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > > >
> > > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> > > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > > >
> > > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> > > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > > >
> > > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > > >
> > > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
> (unless
> > > > it is gas wash)
> > > >
> > > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow b
> y
> > > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in
> a
> > > > week.
> > > >
> > > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> > > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> > > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > > >
> > > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> > > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> > > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> > > > piston.
> > > >
> > > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> > > > 'gas wash'.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck Bill!
> > > >
> > > > I am out of ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > > injector
> > > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to
> be
> > > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> > > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> > > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> > > same
> > > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt
> and
> > > ran
> > > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> > > stains.
> > > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle
> body
> > > and
> > > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
> when
> > > I
> > > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
> worse
> > > in
> > > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
> throttle
> > > body.
> > > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
> about
> > > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting
> only
> > > #2?
> > > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
> find
> > > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> > > pistons.
02-27-2004, 06:12 PM
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Discovered Bore
One of his first complaints was no spark on that cylinder. I said gas
issues.
He has not changed injectors.
Mike
Steve G wrote:
>
> I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
> loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading it
> there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
> complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he did
> the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
> first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to have
> that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have that
> problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
> cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
> first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
> remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
> would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of the
> intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't recall
> if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
> that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if the
> take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
> My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often enough
> to say that's what they look like.
> Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would have
> wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
> cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
> etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil above
> the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
> gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
> mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I think
> about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it a
> severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
> dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
> He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
> Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the rings
> or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
> valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
> entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would lead
> to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
> rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
> excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when first
> starting until oil pressure came up.
> I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the looks
> of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're so
> gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
> replaced.
> One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
> second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
> ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
> indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
> problem.
> Steve
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> > The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> > and at speed.
> >
> > If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> > oil blows into the air filter.
> >
> > The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> > PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> > canister purge is dead.
> >
> > A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> > and down and surge slightly.
> >
> > No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> > believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> > bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> > the cylinders.
> >
> > When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> > lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> > or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> > have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
> >
> > I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
> >
> > How was the gas mileage on that engine?
> >
> > If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> > happens before spending a dime on it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> > >
> > > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
> throttle
> > > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the
> oil
> > > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> > > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
> discribe.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > > >
> > > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > > money.
> > > >
> > > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > > >
> > > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > > >
> > > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> > > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > > >
> > > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> > > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > > >
> > > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > > >
> > > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
> (unless
> > > > it is gas wash)
> > > >
> > > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow b
> y
> > > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in
> a
> > > > week.
> > > >
> > > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> > > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> > > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > > >
> > > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> > > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> > > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> > > > piston.
> > > >
> > > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> > > > 'gas wash'.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck Bill!
> > > >
> > > > I am out of ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > > injector
> > > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to
> be
> > > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> > > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> > > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> > > same
> > > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt
> and
> > > ran
> > > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> > > stains.
> > > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle
> body
> > > and
> > > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
> when
> > > I
> > > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
> worse
> > > in
> > > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
> throttle
> > > body.
> > > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
> about
> > > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting
> only
> > > #2?
> > > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
> find
> > > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> > > pistons.
issues.
He has not changed injectors.
Mike
Steve G wrote:
>
> I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
> loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading it
> there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
> complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he did
> the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
> first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to have
> that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have that
> problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
> cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
> first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
> remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
> would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of the
> intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't recall
> if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
> that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if the
> take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
> My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often enough
> to say that's what they look like.
> Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would have
> wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
> cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
> etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil above
> the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
> gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
> mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I think
> about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it a
> severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
> dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
> He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
> Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the rings
> or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
> valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
> entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would lead
> to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
> rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
> excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when first
> starting until oil pressure came up.
> I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the looks
> of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're so
> gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
> replaced.
> One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
> second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
> ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
> indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
> problem.
> Steve
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> > The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> > and at speed.
> >
> > If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> > oil blows into the air filter.
> >
> > The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> > PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> > canister purge is dead.
> >
> > A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> > and down and surge slightly.
> >
> > No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> > believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> > bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> > the cylinders.
> >
> > When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> > lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> > or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> > have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
> >
> > I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
> >
> > How was the gas mileage on that engine?
> >
> > If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> > happens before spending a dime on it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> > >
> > > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
> throttle
> > > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the
> oil
> > > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> > > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
> discribe.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > > >
> > > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > > money.
> > > >
> > > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > > >
> > > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > > >
> > > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> > > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > > >
> > > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> > > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > > >
> > > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > > >
> > > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
> (unless
> > > > it is gas wash)
> > > >
> > > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow b
> y
> > > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in
> a
> > > > week.
> > > >
> > > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> > > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> > > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > > >
> > > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> > > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> > > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> > > > piston.
> > > >
> > > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> > > > 'gas wash'.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck Bill!
> > > >
> > > > I am out of ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > > injector
> > > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to
> be
> > > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> > > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> > > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> > > same
> > > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt
> and
> > > ran
> > > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> > > stains.
> > > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle
> body
> > > and
> > > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
> when
> > > I
> > > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
> worse
> > > in
> > > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
> throttle
> > > body.
> > > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
> about
> > > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting
> only
> > > #2?
> > > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
> find
> > > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> > > pistons.
02-27-2004, 06:20 PM
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Discovered Bore
I have just put a mattress down and flipped a vehicle over like that for
work... It was an Austin Mini that needed off road skid plates though
not a Jeep.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> What a great idea!!!!
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:403FB90F.8730D319@***.net...
> > Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
> >
> http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Steve G wrote:
> > >
> > > From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over
> doesn't
> > > mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at
> the
> > > top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate
> for a
> > > re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack
> those
> > > pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> > > under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil
> dripping
> > > in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> > > Yourself)world.
> > > Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are
> marked.
> > > Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> > > side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If
> they're
> > > not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> > > punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it
> and so
> > > on for all rods.
> > > Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to
> measure
> > > for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it
> for
> > > you and tell you what oversize if any.
> > > Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as
> there
> > > appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good
> head
> > > back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> > > If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and
> you
> > > determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> > > disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your
> bench
> > > grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to
> the
> > > cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> > > valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> > > procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between
> valve
> > > and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> > > back together and you're good to go.
> > > This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your
> buying
> > > level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200.
> Again, go
> > > to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul.
> An
> > > old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> > > routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high
> cost
> > > of labor and the longevity of engines.
> > > Steve
work... It was an Austin Mini that needed off road skid plates though
not a Jeep.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> What a great idea!!!!
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:403FB90F.8730D319@***.net...
> > Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
> >
> http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Steve G wrote:
> > >
> > > From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over
> doesn't
> > > mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at
> the
> > > top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate
> for a
> > > re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack
> those
> > > pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> > > under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil
> dripping
> > > in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> > > Yourself)world.
> > > Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are
> marked.
> > > Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> > > side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If
> they're
> > > not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> > > punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it
> and so
> > > on for all rods.
> > > Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to
> measure
> > > for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it
> for
> > > you and tell you what oversize if any.
> > > Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as
> there
> > > appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good
> head
> > > back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> > > If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and
> you
> > > determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> > > disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your
> bench
> > > grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to
> the
> > > cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> > > valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> > > procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between
> valve
> > > and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> > > back together and you're good to go.
> > > This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your
> buying
> > > level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200.
> Again, go
> > > to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul.
> An
> > > old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> > > routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high
> cost
> > > of labor and the longevity of engines.
> > > Steve
02-27-2004, 06:20 PM
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Discovered Bore
I have just put a mattress down and flipped a vehicle over like that for
work... It was an Austin Mini that needed off road skid plates though
not a Jeep.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> What a great idea!!!!
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:403FB90F.8730D319@***.net...
> > Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
> >
> http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Steve G wrote:
> > >
> > > From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over
> doesn't
> > > mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at
> the
> > > top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate
> for a
> > > re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack
> those
> > > pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> > > under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil
> dripping
> > > in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> > > Yourself)world.
> > > Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are
> marked.
> > > Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> > > side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If
> they're
> > > not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> > > punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it
> and so
> > > on for all rods.
> > > Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to
> measure
> > > for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it
> for
> > > you and tell you what oversize if any.
> > > Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as
> there
> > > appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good
> head
> > > back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> > > If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and
> you
> > > determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> > > disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your
> bench
> > > grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to
> the
> > > cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> > > valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> > > procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between
> valve
> > > and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> > > back together and you're good to go.
> > > This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your
> buying
> > > level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200.
> Again, go
> > > to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul.
> An
> > > old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> > > routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high
> cost
> > > of labor and the longevity of engines.
> > > Steve
work... It was an Austin Mini that needed off road skid plates though
not a Jeep.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> What a great idea!!!!
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:403FB90F.8730D319@***.net...
> > Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
> >
> http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Steve G wrote:
> > >
> > > From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over
> doesn't
> > > mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at
> the
> > > top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate
> for a
> > > re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack
> those
> > > pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> > > under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil
> dripping
> > > in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> > > Yourself)world.
> > > Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are
> marked.
> > > Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> > > side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If
> they're
> > > not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> > > punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it
> and so
> > > on for all rods.
> > > Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to
> measure
> > > for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it
> for
> > > you and tell you what oversize if any.
> > > Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as
> there
> > > appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good
> head
> > > back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> > > If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and
> you
> > > determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> > > disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your
> bench
> > > grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to
> the
> > > cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> > > valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> > > procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between
> valve
> > > and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> > > back together and you're good to go.
> > > This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your
> buying
> > > level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200.
> Again, go
> > > to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul.
> An
> > > old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> > > routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high
> cost
> > > of labor and the longevity of engines.
> > > Steve
02-27-2004, 06:20 PM
#88
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Discovered Bore
I have just put a mattress down and flipped a vehicle over like that for
work... It was an Austin Mini that needed off road skid plates though
not a Jeep.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> What a great idea!!!!
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:403FB90F.8730D319@***.net...
> > Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
> >
> http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Steve G wrote:
> > >
> > > From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over
> doesn't
> > > mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at
> the
> > > top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate
> for a
> > > re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack
> those
> > > pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> > > under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil
> dripping
> > > in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> > > Yourself)world.
> > > Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are
> marked.
> > > Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> > > side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If
> they're
> > > not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> > > punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it
> and so
> > > on for all rods.
> > > Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to
> measure
> > > for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it
> for
> > > you and tell you what oversize if any.
> > > Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as
> there
> > > appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good
> head
> > > back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> > > If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and
> you
> > > determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> > > disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your
> bench
> > > grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to
> the
> > > cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> > > valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> > > procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between
> valve
> > > and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> > > back together and you're good to go.
> > > This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your
> buying
> > > level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200.
> Again, go
> > > to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul.
> An
> > > old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> > > routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high
> cost
> > > of labor and the longevity of engines.
> > > Steve
work... It was an Austin Mini that needed off road skid plates though
not a Jeep.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> What a great idea!!!!
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:403FB90F.8730D319@***.net...
> > Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
> >
> http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Steve G wrote:
> > >
> > > From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over
> doesn't
> > > mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at
> the
> > > top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate
> for a
> > > re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack
> those
> > > pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> > > under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil
> dripping
> > > in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> > > Yourself)world.
> > > Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are
> marked.
> > > Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> > > side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If
> they're
> > > not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> > > punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it
> and so
> > > on for all rods.
> > > Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to
> measure
> > > for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it
> for
> > > you and tell you what oversize if any.
> > > Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as
> there
> > > appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good
> head
> > > back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> > > If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and
> you
> > > determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> > > disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your
> bench
> > > grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to
> the
> > > cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> > > valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> > > procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between
> valve
> > > and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> > > back together and you're good to go.
> > > This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your
> buying
> > > level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200.
> Again, go
> > > to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul.
> An
> > > old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> > > routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high
> cost
> > > of labor and the longevity of engines.
> > > Steve
02-27-2004, 10:35 PM
#89
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Discovered Bore
There is lots of good advice here for you Bill. I don't know which way you
are leaning on this right now, but let me suggest this to you: get a
rebuilt engine from a reliable source, and put it in yourself. If you can
pull a cylinder head, you can replace the engine. An engine hoist doesn't
cost much to rent for a day, or weekend, and you can pocket all that extra
cash instead of paying a mechanic to install it. It seems intimidating at
first, but once you tear into it, it actually isn't as much work as you
might think.
The plus side, beyond the obvious cash advantage, is the tremendous knowlege
you will gain by having done it yourself, and the job satisfaction when you
turn the key and know that YOU made it fire. There may not be any more
gratifying sound than that of a newly-fired engine which you installed
yourself.
Jerry
"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c1mmnd$1jbtk1$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I contacted the shop closely after I bought the jeep to try to determine
> what they did and they couldn't give me an answer because of the time
> between when it was done and when I asked.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to find
> > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> >
> > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> >
> > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> >
> > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
pistons.
>
>
are leaning on this right now, but let me suggest this to you: get a
rebuilt engine from a reliable source, and put it in yourself. If you can
pull a cylinder head, you can replace the engine. An engine hoist doesn't
cost much to rent for a day, or weekend, and you can pocket all that extra
cash instead of paying a mechanic to install it. It seems intimidating at
first, but once you tear into it, it actually isn't as much work as you
might think.
The plus side, beyond the obvious cash advantage, is the tremendous knowlege
you will gain by having done it yourself, and the job satisfaction when you
turn the key and know that YOU made it fire. There may not be any more
gratifying sound than that of a newly-fired engine which you installed
yourself.
Jerry
"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c1mmnd$1jbtk1$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I contacted the shop closely after I bought the jeep to try to determine
> what they did and they couldn't give me an answer because of the time
> between when it was done and when I asked.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to find
> > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> >
> > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> >
> > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> >
> > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
pistons.
>
>
02-27-2004, 10:35 PM
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Discovered Bore
There is lots of good advice here for you Bill. I don't know which way you
are leaning on this right now, but let me suggest this to you: get a
rebuilt engine from a reliable source, and put it in yourself. If you can
pull a cylinder head, you can replace the engine. An engine hoist doesn't
cost much to rent for a day, or weekend, and you can pocket all that extra
cash instead of paying a mechanic to install it. It seems intimidating at
first, but once you tear into it, it actually isn't as much work as you
might think.
The plus side, beyond the obvious cash advantage, is the tremendous knowlege
you will gain by having done it yourself, and the job satisfaction when you
turn the key and know that YOU made it fire. There may not be any more
gratifying sound than that of a newly-fired engine which you installed
yourself.
Jerry
"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c1mmnd$1jbtk1$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I contacted the shop closely after I bought the jeep to try to determine
> what they did and they couldn't give me an answer because of the time
> between when it was done and when I asked.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to find
> > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> >
> > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> >
> > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> >
> > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
pistons.
>
>
are leaning on this right now, but let me suggest this to you: get a
rebuilt engine from a reliable source, and put it in yourself. If you can
pull a cylinder head, you can replace the engine. An engine hoist doesn't
cost much to rent for a day, or weekend, and you can pocket all that extra
cash instead of paying a mechanic to install it. It seems intimidating at
first, but once you tear into it, it actually isn't as much work as you
might think.
The plus side, beyond the obvious cash advantage, is the tremendous knowlege
you will gain by having done it yourself, and the job satisfaction when you
turn the key and know that YOU made it fire. There may not be any more
gratifying sound than that of a newly-fired engine which you installed
yourself.
Jerry
"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c1mmnd$1jbtk1$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I contacted the shop closely after I bought the jeep to try to determine
> what they did and they couldn't give me an answer because of the time
> between when it was done and when I asked.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to find
> > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> >
> > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> >
> > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> >
> > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
pistons.
>
>