Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
03-06-2004, 11:12 AM
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
cactuscowboy did pass the time by typing:
> If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> has worked hard to earn it. A highly skilled mechanic, *if he stays busy*
> can make an above average to excellent income. There's nothing wrong with
> flat rate pay for service work on vehicles. It's been the industry standard
> for many years. It's a difficult and demanding job. For every 'gravy'
> brake job our technicians do, there are other jobs they don't get paid for,
> e.g. a very minor problem is corrected and the customer is not even
> charged..... but the return is huge in customer loyalty and goodwill.
And there is the key, customer loyalty. The old adage is "One happy customer
might tell 2-3 others, but one unsatisfied customer will tell hundreds."
On Usenet it's just a factor of thousands greater. I've had work done at
the local dealership even if it was cheaper to do it myself. It's a matter
of how much my time costs and having the tools.
Once a mechanic (and myself) spent about two hours trying to figure out why
the ABS kept failing on the 93 ZJ. Long story short, it was a bad connector.
The dealership wasn't going to charge me for all the effort but that would
have taken away the mechanics pay. I paid the full hourly rate and the
diagnostics fee. (plus gave the mechanic a $50 for his time). Fowler in
Norman OK, no longer does Jeep, but I sent quite a few people down there
because of that experience.
> In sales, I work for straight commission. Sounds easy and profitable, huh?
> If it were, everyone would be doing it.
Heh. Sales is one of the most demanding occupations but as you say, one of
the most lucrative providing you work harder and smarter.
> As for higher prices for OEM oil filters and such at the local dealership,
> well there's always NAPA and Carquest down the street. In fact, at our
> dealership, some of the parts we use are bought down the street, so we can
> pass savings on to our customers. If we weren't competitive, we'd go out of
> business.
Actually, oil changes are competitive at most dealers. It's the other
work that gets pricy.
> I'm damn proud to be working for Fremont Motors, the largest dealer network
> in the state of Wyoming. We didn't get to be the largest by ripping off
> people. Besides providing good, high paying jobs to me and my coworkers,
> Fremont gives generously to the local community, supporting youth groups,
> service clubs, sponsoring the county fair, etc.....
Glad to hear you like your job. I wish you well.
> Making broad sweeping generalizations and condemning car stores as
> "stealerships" based soley on the price of an oil filter or one bad
> experience is unfair.
Who ever said Usenet was fair? :)
> Sorry if this is coming off as a rant, but I'm sick
> and tired of the negative stereotypes.
As are a lot of others here. Understand that Usenet is full
of opinions the same way a feedlot is full of.....
--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.***.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
> If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> has worked hard to earn it. A highly skilled mechanic, *if he stays busy*
> can make an above average to excellent income. There's nothing wrong with
> flat rate pay for service work on vehicles. It's been the industry standard
> for many years. It's a difficult and demanding job. For every 'gravy'
> brake job our technicians do, there are other jobs they don't get paid for,
> e.g. a very minor problem is corrected and the customer is not even
> charged..... but the return is huge in customer loyalty and goodwill.
And there is the key, customer loyalty. The old adage is "One happy customer
might tell 2-3 others, but one unsatisfied customer will tell hundreds."
On Usenet it's just a factor of thousands greater. I've had work done at
the local dealership even if it was cheaper to do it myself. It's a matter
of how much my time costs and having the tools.
Once a mechanic (and myself) spent about two hours trying to figure out why
the ABS kept failing on the 93 ZJ. Long story short, it was a bad connector.
The dealership wasn't going to charge me for all the effort but that would
have taken away the mechanics pay. I paid the full hourly rate and the
diagnostics fee. (plus gave the mechanic a $50 for his time). Fowler in
Norman OK, no longer does Jeep, but I sent quite a few people down there
because of that experience.
> In sales, I work for straight commission. Sounds easy and profitable, huh?
> If it were, everyone would be doing it.
Heh. Sales is one of the most demanding occupations but as you say, one of
the most lucrative providing you work harder and smarter.
> As for higher prices for OEM oil filters and such at the local dealership,
> well there's always NAPA and Carquest down the street. In fact, at our
> dealership, some of the parts we use are bought down the street, so we can
> pass savings on to our customers. If we weren't competitive, we'd go out of
> business.
Actually, oil changes are competitive at most dealers. It's the other
work that gets pricy.
> I'm damn proud to be working for Fremont Motors, the largest dealer network
> in the state of Wyoming. We didn't get to be the largest by ripping off
> people. Besides providing good, high paying jobs to me and my coworkers,
> Fremont gives generously to the local community, supporting youth groups,
> service clubs, sponsoring the county fair, etc.....
Glad to hear you like your job. I wish you well.
> Making broad sweeping generalizations and condemning car stores as
> "stealerships" based soley on the price of an oil filter or one bad
> experience is unfair.
Who ever said Usenet was fair? :)
> Sorry if this is coming off as a rant, but I'm sick
> and tired of the negative stereotypes.
As are a lot of others here. Understand that Usenet is full
of opinions the same way a feedlot is full of.....
--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.***.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
03-06-2004, 12:05 PM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
cactuscowboy wrote:
>
> If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> has worked hard to earn it.
Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
off.
No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
has a really bad reputation.
My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
colors!
I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
government doesn't get, eh?
That is theft.
Mike
>
> If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> has worked hard to earn it.
Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
off.
No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
has a really bad reputation.
My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
colors!
I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
government doesn't get, eh?
That is theft.
Mike
03-06-2004, 12:05 PM
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
cactuscowboy wrote:
>
> If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> has worked hard to earn it.
Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
off.
No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
has a really bad reputation.
My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
colors!
I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
government doesn't get, eh?
That is theft.
Mike
>
> If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> has worked hard to earn it.
Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
off.
No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
has a really bad reputation.
My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
colors!
I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
government doesn't get, eh?
That is theft.
Mike
03-06-2004, 12:05 PM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
cactuscowboy wrote:
>
> If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> has worked hard to earn it.
Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
off.
No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
has a really bad reputation.
My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
colors!
I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
government doesn't get, eh?
That is theft.
Mike
>
> If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> has worked hard to earn it.
Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
off.
No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
has a really bad reputation.
My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
colors!
I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
government doesn't get, eh?
That is theft.
Mike
03-06-2004, 04:20 PM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
you are getting HOSED BIG TIME! first the coil pac is a expected to last
a lifetime part. and there is no plug wires just boots that go onto the
plugs from the coil pac, so unless there was a specific fault code for a
coilpac failure it's replacement is very doubtful full in my eyes, i have
only replaced one at my work in the last 4 years it's been out and it was
damaged from a wreck
make dam sure the tech put champion plugs in it, the 4.0 engine doesn't
like other brands of plugs
i would bet the t stat is bad and needs replacing !
is there, was there any fault codes that would be a big help.
there was a few thousand 4.0 engines that had camshaft lobe problems and
and that would set a misfire fault code and make a already rough idle
worse
the 4.0 are not a smooth as silk idling engine to begin with
the 4.0 is a very hardy engine and can take some short-term overheating
with out fear of a head gasket failure or cracking head
the cooling system also has to be bled or it will overheat after draining
it out
Eric B wrote:
> I appologize if this is a cross post. People over in alt.jeep-l
> suggested i post here...
>
> Let me preface this by saying I only know a bit about cars. I can
> change a serpentine belt and replace disk brakes, but that's about
> where it ends. Sorry for the length of the post, I'm just trying to be
> clear. Anyway ...
>
> I purchased a used 2000 Cherokee Sport i6 4.0, 55K miles. I've had a
> number of problems with it. The biggest problem is overheating.
>
> About a month a ago the car started to overheat on a 15 minute ride
> around town. The latch on the hood broke when I went to take a look,
> so I couldn't inspect. So i took it to my local mechanic. He said
> the coolant was nasty so he flushed my radiator and replaced the
> thermostat. $165
>
> The problem reappeared. I was on a long drive and the car overheated.
> This time I could open the hood :-) The car was out of antifreeze.
> I was able to add anti-freeze and make it home with the temperature
> just a notch above normal. So I take it to mechanic #2 because I
> wasn't comfortable with the first. This might not be my smartest move
> ever, read on…
>
> Mechanic #2 tells me the water pump is leaking. He replaces the water
> pump. I also complained of the idle not being smooth (seemingly
> unrelated). He tells me bad coil pack so I'm only running on 3-5
> cylinders. He performs a full tune up replacing all spark plugs, air
> filter, spark plug wires and the coil pack. $550.
>
> About 2 weeks later the car start overheating. Again low on
> anti-freeze I take it back to mechanic #2. This time I can see some
> steam coming out of the radiator where one of the hoses attaches (top
> left if I'm standing at the grill). He tells the joint on the
> radiator broke, radiator needs to be replaced. So he replaces
> radiator, radiator cap and hoses. I also complain that its still not
> idling correctly, they make adjustments. It's a bit better, but not
> nearly as smooth as it was right after the tune up, so it goes. $475.
>
> About 2 weeks after this I'm driving on the highway and as I'm nearing
> my destination the car starts running a notch hot. I stop and look
> the anti-freeze is low. I put anti-freeze in. On my drive home the
> car overheats a number of times. I bring it back to mechanic #2
> …fuming at this point …. He performs what he called a "full leak
> down test". He said they could not find any leaks. He also tested
> the head gasket, said that was fine. His conclusion? The engine is
> bad, replace it. Even though the car is out of warranty (65K miles)
> he suggested I could fight with Chrysler over the engine.
>
> So I'm searching Google, trying to come up with information and
> determine if I am getting railed. I came across this story. It
> seems remarkably similar.
> http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/failure.htm
>
> Am I getting hosed?
> Are there really grounds for me to get Chrysler to fix it?
> Did the mechanic strip something putting in a spark plug (see external
> story)?
> Do I really need to replace the engine?
>
> Any input would be really appreciated. Spending $3500 to replace the
> engine just doesn't seem like a viable options right now.
>
> Could it be the fule injection system be messed up and running really
> really lean?
>
> I tried to look at the fan clutch, but it seems like the fan stops as
> soon as i turn the engine off. Is that still an option ?
>
> Thanks in advance for you help /advice.
> -eric
a lifetime part. and there is no plug wires just boots that go onto the
plugs from the coil pac, so unless there was a specific fault code for a
coilpac failure it's replacement is very doubtful full in my eyes, i have
only replaced one at my work in the last 4 years it's been out and it was
damaged from a wreck
make dam sure the tech put champion plugs in it, the 4.0 engine doesn't
like other brands of plugs
i would bet the t stat is bad and needs replacing !
is there, was there any fault codes that would be a big help.
there was a few thousand 4.0 engines that had camshaft lobe problems and
and that would set a misfire fault code and make a already rough idle
worse
the 4.0 are not a smooth as silk idling engine to begin with
the 4.0 is a very hardy engine and can take some short-term overheating
with out fear of a head gasket failure or cracking head
the cooling system also has to be bled or it will overheat after draining
it out
Eric B wrote:
> I appologize if this is a cross post. People over in alt.jeep-l
> suggested i post here...
>
> Let me preface this by saying I only know a bit about cars. I can
> change a serpentine belt and replace disk brakes, but that's about
> where it ends. Sorry for the length of the post, I'm just trying to be
> clear. Anyway ...
>
> I purchased a used 2000 Cherokee Sport i6 4.0, 55K miles. I've had a
> number of problems with it. The biggest problem is overheating.
>
> About a month a ago the car started to overheat on a 15 minute ride
> around town. The latch on the hood broke when I went to take a look,
> so I couldn't inspect. So i took it to my local mechanic. He said
> the coolant was nasty so he flushed my radiator and replaced the
> thermostat. $165
>
> The problem reappeared. I was on a long drive and the car overheated.
> This time I could open the hood :-) The car was out of antifreeze.
> I was able to add anti-freeze and make it home with the temperature
> just a notch above normal. So I take it to mechanic #2 because I
> wasn't comfortable with the first. This might not be my smartest move
> ever, read on…
>
> Mechanic #2 tells me the water pump is leaking. He replaces the water
> pump. I also complained of the idle not being smooth (seemingly
> unrelated). He tells me bad coil pack so I'm only running on 3-5
> cylinders. He performs a full tune up replacing all spark plugs, air
> filter, spark plug wires and the coil pack. $550.
>
> About 2 weeks later the car start overheating. Again low on
> anti-freeze I take it back to mechanic #2. This time I can see some
> steam coming out of the radiator where one of the hoses attaches (top
> left if I'm standing at the grill). He tells the joint on the
> radiator broke, radiator needs to be replaced. So he replaces
> radiator, radiator cap and hoses. I also complain that its still not
> idling correctly, they make adjustments. It's a bit better, but not
> nearly as smooth as it was right after the tune up, so it goes. $475.
>
> About 2 weeks after this I'm driving on the highway and as I'm nearing
> my destination the car starts running a notch hot. I stop and look
> the anti-freeze is low. I put anti-freeze in. On my drive home the
> car overheats a number of times. I bring it back to mechanic #2
> …fuming at this point …. He performs what he called a "full leak
> down test". He said they could not find any leaks. He also tested
> the head gasket, said that was fine. His conclusion? The engine is
> bad, replace it. Even though the car is out of warranty (65K miles)
> he suggested I could fight with Chrysler over the engine.
>
> So I'm searching Google, trying to come up with information and
> determine if I am getting railed. I came across this story. It
> seems remarkably similar.
> http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/failure.htm
>
> Am I getting hosed?
> Are there really grounds for me to get Chrysler to fix it?
> Did the mechanic strip something putting in a spark plug (see external
> story)?
> Do I really need to replace the engine?
>
> Any input would be really appreciated. Spending $3500 to replace the
> engine just doesn't seem like a viable options right now.
>
> Could it be the fule injection system be messed up and running really
> really lean?
>
> I tried to look at the fan clutch, but it seems like the fan stops as
> soon as i turn the engine off. Is that still an option ?
>
> Thanks in advance for you help /advice.
> -eric
03-06-2004, 04:20 PM
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
you are getting HOSED BIG TIME! first the coil pac is a expected to last
a lifetime part. and there is no plug wires just boots that go onto the
plugs from the coil pac, so unless there was a specific fault code for a
coilpac failure it's replacement is very doubtful full in my eyes, i have
only replaced one at my work in the last 4 years it's been out and it was
damaged from a wreck
make dam sure the tech put champion plugs in it, the 4.0 engine doesn't
like other brands of plugs
i would bet the t stat is bad and needs replacing !
is there, was there any fault codes that would be a big help.
there was a few thousand 4.0 engines that had camshaft lobe problems and
and that would set a misfire fault code and make a already rough idle
worse
the 4.0 are not a smooth as silk idling engine to begin with
the 4.0 is a very hardy engine and can take some short-term overheating
with out fear of a head gasket failure or cracking head
the cooling system also has to be bled or it will overheat after draining
it out
Eric B wrote:
> I appologize if this is a cross post. People over in alt.jeep-l
> suggested i post here...
>
> Let me preface this by saying I only know a bit about cars. I can
> change a serpentine belt and replace disk brakes, but that's about
> where it ends. Sorry for the length of the post, I'm just trying to be
> clear. Anyway ...
>
> I purchased a used 2000 Cherokee Sport i6 4.0, 55K miles. I've had a
> number of problems with it. The biggest problem is overheating.
>
> About a month a ago the car started to overheat on a 15 minute ride
> around town. The latch on the hood broke when I went to take a look,
> so I couldn't inspect. So i took it to my local mechanic. He said
> the coolant was nasty so he flushed my radiator and replaced the
> thermostat. $165
>
> The problem reappeared. I was on a long drive and the car overheated.
> This time I could open the hood :-) The car was out of antifreeze.
> I was able to add anti-freeze and make it home with the temperature
> just a notch above normal. So I take it to mechanic #2 because I
> wasn't comfortable with the first. This might not be my smartest move
> ever, read on…
>
> Mechanic #2 tells me the water pump is leaking. He replaces the water
> pump. I also complained of the idle not being smooth (seemingly
> unrelated). He tells me bad coil pack so I'm only running on 3-5
> cylinders. He performs a full tune up replacing all spark plugs, air
> filter, spark plug wires and the coil pack. $550.
>
> About 2 weeks later the car start overheating. Again low on
> anti-freeze I take it back to mechanic #2. This time I can see some
> steam coming out of the radiator where one of the hoses attaches (top
> left if I'm standing at the grill). He tells the joint on the
> radiator broke, radiator needs to be replaced. So he replaces
> radiator, radiator cap and hoses. I also complain that its still not
> idling correctly, they make adjustments. It's a bit better, but not
> nearly as smooth as it was right after the tune up, so it goes. $475.
>
> About 2 weeks after this I'm driving on the highway and as I'm nearing
> my destination the car starts running a notch hot. I stop and look
> the anti-freeze is low. I put anti-freeze in. On my drive home the
> car overheats a number of times. I bring it back to mechanic #2
> …fuming at this point …. He performs what he called a "full leak
> down test". He said they could not find any leaks. He also tested
> the head gasket, said that was fine. His conclusion? The engine is
> bad, replace it. Even though the car is out of warranty (65K miles)
> he suggested I could fight with Chrysler over the engine.
>
> So I'm searching Google, trying to come up with information and
> determine if I am getting railed. I came across this story. It
> seems remarkably similar.
> http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/failure.htm
>
> Am I getting hosed?
> Are there really grounds for me to get Chrysler to fix it?
> Did the mechanic strip something putting in a spark plug (see external
> story)?
> Do I really need to replace the engine?
>
> Any input would be really appreciated. Spending $3500 to replace the
> engine just doesn't seem like a viable options right now.
>
> Could it be the fule injection system be messed up and running really
> really lean?
>
> I tried to look at the fan clutch, but it seems like the fan stops as
> soon as i turn the engine off. Is that still an option ?
>
> Thanks in advance for you help /advice.
> -eric
a lifetime part. and there is no plug wires just boots that go onto the
plugs from the coil pac, so unless there was a specific fault code for a
coilpac failure it's replacement is very doubtful full in my eyes, i have
only replaced one at my work in the last 4 years it's been out and it was
damaged from a wreck
make dam sure the tech put champion plugs in it, the 4.0 engine doesn't
like other brands of plugs
i would bet the t stat is bad and needs replacing !
is there, was there any fault codes that would be a big help.
there was a few thousand 4.0 engines that had camshaft lobe problems and
and that would set a misfire fault code and make a already rough idle
worse
the 4.0 are not a smooth as silk idling engine to begin with
the 4.0 is a very hardy engine and can take some short-term overheating
with out fear of a head gasket failure or cracking head
the cooling system also has to be bled or it will overheat after draining
it out
Eric B wrote:
> I appologize if this is a cross post. People over in alt.jeep-l
> suggested i post here...
>
> Let me preface this by saying I only know a bit about cars. I can
> change a serpentine belt and replace disk brakes, but that's about
> where it ends. Sorry for the length of the post, I'm just trying to be
> clear. Anyway ...
>
> I purchased a used 2000 Cherokee Sport i6 4.0, 55K miles. I've had a
> number of problems with it. The biggest problem is overheating.
>
> About a month a ago the car started to overheat on a 15 minute ride
> around town. The latch on the hood broke when I went to take a look,
> so I couldn't inspect. So i took it to my local mechanic. He said
> the coolant was nasty so he flushed my radiator and replaced the
> thermostat. $165
>
> The problem reappeared. I was on a long drive and the car overheated.
> This time I could open the hood :-) The car was out of antifreeze.
> I was able to add anti-freeze and make it home with the temperature
> just a notch above normal. So I take it to mechanic #2 because I
> wasn't comfortable with the first. This might not be my smartest move
> ever, read on…
>
> Mechanic #2 tells me the water pump is leaking. He replaces the water
> pump. I also complained of the idle not being smooth (seemingly
> unrelated). He tells me bad coil pack so I'm only running on 3-5
> cylinders. He performs a full tune up replacing all spark plugs, air
> filter, spark plug wires and the coil pack. $550.
>
> About 2 weeks later the car start overheating. Again low on
> anti-freeze I take it back to mechanic #2. This time I can see some
> steam coming out of the radiator where one of the hoses attaches (top
> left if I'm standing at the grill). He tells the joint on the
> radiator broke, radiator needs to be replaced. So he replaces
> radiator, radiator cap and hoses. I also complain that its still not
> idling correctly, they make adjustments. It's a bit better, but not
> nearly as smooth as it was right after the tune up, so it goes. $475.
>
> About 2 weeks after this I'm driving on the highway and as I'm nearing
> my destination the car starts running a notch hot. I stop and look
> the anti-freeze is low. I put anti-freeze in. On my drive home the
> car overheats a number of times. I bring it back to mechanic #2
> …fuming at this point …. He performs what he called a "full leak
> down test". He said they could not find any leaks. He also tested
> the head gasket, said that was fine. His conclusion? The engine is
> bad, replace it. Even though the car is out of warranty (65K miles)
> he suggested I could fight with Chrysler over the engine.
>
> So I'm searching Google, trying to come up with information and
> determine if I am getting railed. I came across this story. It
> seems remarkably similar.
> http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/failure.htm
>
> Am I getting hosed?
> Are there really grounds for me to get Chrysler to fix it?
> Did the mechanic strip something putting in a spark plug (see external
> story)?
> Do I really need to replace the engine?
>
> Any input would be really appreciated. Spending $3500 to replace the
> engine just doesn't seem like a viable options right now.
>
> Could it be the fule injection system be messed up and running really
> really lean?
>
> I tried to look at the fan clutch, but it seems like the fan stops as
> soon as i turn the engine off. Is that still an option ?
>
> Thanks in advance for you help /advice.
> -eric
03-06-2004, 04:20 PM
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
you are getting HOSED BIG TIME! first the coil pac is a expected to last
a lifetime part. and there is no plug wires just boots that go onto the
plugs from the coil pac, so unless there was a specific fault code for a
coilpac failure it's replacement is very doubtful full in my eyes, i have
only replaced one at my work in the last 4 years it's been out and it was
damaged from a wreck
make dam sure the tech put champion plugs in it, the 4.0 engine doesn't
like other brands of plugs
i would bet the t stat is bad and needs replacing !
is there, was there any fault codes that would be a big help.
there was a few thousand 4.0 engines that had camshaft lobe problems and
and that would set a misfire fault code and make a already rough idle
worse
the 4.0 are not a smooth as silk idling engine to begin with
the 4.0 is a very hardy engine and can take some short-term overheating
with out fear of a head gasket failure or cracking head
the cooling system also has to be bled or it will overheat after draining
it out
Eric B wrote:
> I appologize if this is a cross post. People over in alt.jeep-l
> suggested i post here...
>
> Let me preface this by saying I only know a bit about cars. I can
> change a serpentine belt and replace disk brakes, but that's about
> where it ends. Sorry for the length of the post, I'm just trying to be
> clear. Anyway ...
>
> I purchased a used 2000 Cherokee Sport i6 4.0, 55K miles. I've had a
> number of problems with it. The biggest problem is overheating.
>
> About a month a ago the car started to overheat on a 15 minute ride
> around town. The latch on the hood broke when I went to take a look,
> so I couldn't inspect. So i took it to my local mechanic. He said
> the coolant was nasty so he flushed my radiator and replaced the
> thermostat. $165
>
> The problem reappeared. I was on a long drive and the car overheated.
> This time I could open the hood :-) The car was out of antifreeze.
> I was able to add anti-freeze and make it home with the temperature
> just a notch above normal. So I take it to mechanic #2 because I
> wasn't comfortable with the first. This might not be my smartest move
> ever, read on…
>
> Mechanic #2 tells me the water pump is leaking. He replaces the water
> pump. I also complained of the idle not being smooth (seemingly
> unrelated). He tells me bad coil pack so I'm only running on 3-5
> cylinders. He performs a full tune up replacing all spark plugs, air
> filter, spark plug wires and the coil pack. $550.
>
> About 2 weeks later the car start overheating. Again low on
> anti-freeze I take it back to mechanic #2. This time I can see some
> steam coming out of the radiator where one of the hoses attaches (top
> left if I'm standing at the grill). He tells the joint on the
> radiator broke, radiator needs to be replaced. So he replaces
> radiator, radiator cap and hoses. I also complain that its still not
> idling correctly, they make adjustments. It's a bit better, but not
> nearly as smooth as it was right after the tune up, so it goes. $475.
>
> About 2 weeks after this I'm driving on the highway and as I'm nearing
> my destination the car starts running a notch hot. I stop and look
> the anti-freeze is low. I put anti-freeze in. On my drive home the
> car overheats a number of times. I bring it back to mechanic #2
> …fuming at this point …. He performs what he called a "full leak
> down test". He said they could not find any leaks. He also tested
> the head gasket, said that was fine. His conclusion? The engine is
> bad, replace it. Even though the car is out of warranty (65K miles)
> he suggested I could fight with Chrysler over the engine.
>
> So I'm searching Google, trying to come up with information and
> determine if I am getting railed. I came across this story. It
> seems remarkably similar.
> http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/failure.htm
>
> Am I getting hosed?
> Are there really grounds for me to get Chrysler to fix it?
> Did the mechanic strip something putting in a spark plug (see external
> story)?
> Do I really need to replace the engine?
>
> Any input would be really appreciated. Spending $3500 to replace the
> engine just doesn't seem like a viable options right now.
>
> Could it be the fule injection system be messed up and running really
> really lean?
>
> I tried to look at the fan clutch, but it seems like the fan stops as
> soon as i turn the engine off. Is that still an option ?
>
> Thanks in advance for you help /advice.
> -eric
a lifetime part. and there is no plug wires just boots that go onto the
plugs from the coil pac, so unless there was a specific fault code for a
coilpac failure it's replacement is very doubtful full in my eyes, i have
only replaced one at my work in the last 4 years it's been out and it was
damaged from a wreck
make dam sure the tech put champion plugs in it, the 4.0 engine doesn't
like other brands of plugs
i would bet the t stat is bad and needs replacing !
is there, was there any fault codes that would be a big help.
there was a few thousand 4.0 engines that had camshaft lobe problems and
and that would set a misfire fault code and make a already rough idle
worse
the 4.0 are not a smooth as silk idling engine to begin with
the 4.0 is a very hardy engine and can take some short-term overheating
with out fear of a head gasket failure or cracking head
the cooling system also has to be bled or it will overheat after draining
it out
Eric B wrote:
> I appologize if this is a cross post. People over in alt.jeep-l
> suggested i post here...
>
> Let me preface this by saying I only know a bit about cars. I can
> change a serpentine belt and replace disk brakes, but that's about
> where it ends. Sorry for the length of the post, I'm just trying to be
> clear. Anyway ...
>
> I purchased a used 2000 Cherokee Sport i6 4.0, 55K miles. I've had a
> number of problems with it. The biggest problem is overheating.
>
> About a month a ago the car started to overheat on a 15 minute ride
> around town. The latch on the hood broke when I went to take a look,
> so I couldn't inspect. So i took it to my local mechanic. He said
> the coolant was nasty so he flushed my radiator and replaced the
> thermostat. $165
>
> The problem reappeared. I was on a long drive and the car overheated.
> This time I could open the hood :-) The car was out of antifreeze.
> I was able to add anti-freeze and make it home with the temperature
> just a notch above normal. So I take it to mechanic #2 because I
> wasn't comfortable with the first. This might not be my smartest move
> ever, read on…
>
> Mechanic #2 tells me the water pump is leaking. He replaces the water
> pump. I also complained of the idle not being smooth (seemingly
> unrelated). He tells me bad coil pack so I'm only running on 3-5
> cylinders. He performs a full tune up replacing all spark plugs, air
> filter, spark plug wires and the coil pack. $550.
>
> About 2 weeks later the car start overheating. Again low on
> anti-freeze I take it back to mechanic #2. This time I can see some
> steam coming out of the radiator where one of the hoses attaches (top
> left if I'm standing at the grill). He tells the joint on the
> radiator broke, radiator needs to be replaced. So he replaces
> radiator, radiator cap and hoses. I also complain that its still not
> idling correctly, they make adjustments. It's a bit better, but not
> nearly as smooth as it was right after the tune up, so it goes. $475.
>
> About 2 weeks after this I'm driving on the highway and as I'm nearing
> my destination the car starts running a notch hot. I stop and look
> the anti-freeze is low. I put anti-freeze in. On my drive home the
> car overheats a number of times. I bring it back to mechanic #2
> …fuming at this point …. He performs what he called a "full leak
> down test". He said they could not find any leaks. He also tested
> the head gasket, said that was fine. His conclusion? The engine is
> bad, replace it. Even though the car is out of warranty (65K miles)
> he suggested I could fight with Chrysler over the engine.
>
> So I'm searching Google, trying to come up with information and
> determine if I am getting railed. I came across this story. It
> seems remarkably similar.
> http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/failure.htm
>
> Am I getting hosed?
> Are there really grounds for me to get Chrysler to fix it?
> Did the mechanic strip something putting in a spark plug (see external
> story)?
> Do I really need to replace the engine?
>
> Any input would be really appreciated. Spending $3500 to replace the
> engine just doesn't seem like a viable options right now.
>
> Could it be the fule injection system be messed up and running really
> really lean?
>
> I tried to look at the fan clutch, but it seems like the fan stops as
> soon as i turn the engine off. Is that still an option ?
>
> Thanks in advance for you help /advice.
> -eric
03-06-2004, 04:59 PM
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
mike you are still missing the whole point of my original post!
but you need to really read the fine print of the purchase contract/ warranty
paper work when buying a new car. esp lease paper work regardless who makes it,
they all say we the manufacture can and will void parts or all your warranty if
necessary and once you sign the paper work you agreed to their terms of that
contract. regardless of what the law states and that makes it legally binding and
that's the point i was trying to make, that you can't seem to get !
stupid ------- ------- do you get it now!
Mike Romain wrote:
> cactuscowboy wrote:
> >
> > If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> > has worked hard to earn it.
>
> Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
> tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
> off.
>
> No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
> vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
> at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
> have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
>
> You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
> has a really bad reputation.
>
> My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
> emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
> into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
> recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
> colors!
>
> I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
> emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
> un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
>
> I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
> that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
> government doesn't get, eh?
>
> That is theft.
>
> Mike
but you need to really read the fine print of the purchase contract/ warranty
paper work when buying a new car. esp lease paper work regardless who makes it,
they all say we the manufacture can and will void parts or all your warranty if
necessary and once you sign the paper work you agreed to their terms of that
contract. regardless of what the law states and that makes it legally binding and
that's the point i was trying to make, that you can't seem to get !
stupid ------- ------- do you get it now!
Mike Romain wrote:
> cactuscowboy wrote:
> >
> > If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> > has worked hard to earn it.
>
> Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
> tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
> off.
>
> No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
> vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
> at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
> have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
>
> You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
> has a really bad reputation.
>
> My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
> emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
> into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
> recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
> colors!
>
> I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
> emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
> un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
>
> I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
> that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
> government doesn't get, eh?
>
> That is theft.
>
> Mike
03-06-2004, 04:59 PM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
mike you are still missing the whole point of my original post!
but you need to really read the fine print of the purchase contract/ warranty
paper work when buying a new car. esp lease paper work regardless who makes it,
they all say we the manufacture can and will void parts or all your warranty if
necessary and once you sign the paper work you agreed to their terms of that
contract. regardless of what the law states and that makes it legally binding and
that's the point i was trying to make, that you can't seem to get !
stupid ------- ------- do you get it now!
Mike Romain wrote:
> cactuscowboy wrote:
> >
> > If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> > has worked hard to earn it.
>
> Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
> tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
> off.
>
> No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
> vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
> at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
> have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
>
> You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
> has a really bad reputation.
>
> My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
> emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
> into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
> recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
> colors!
>
> I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
> emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
> un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
>
> I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
> that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
> government doesn't get, eh?
>
> That is theft.
>
> Mike
but you need to really read the fine print of the purchase contract/ warranty
paper work when buying a new car. esp lease paper work regardless who makes it,
they all say we the manufacture can and will void parts or all your warranty if
necessary and once you sign the paper work you agreed to their terms of that
contract. regardless of what the law states and that makes it legally binding and
that's the point i was trying to make, that you can't seem to get !
stupid ------- ------- do you get it now!
Mike Romain wrote:
> cactuscowboy wrote:
> >
> > If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> > has worked hard to earn it.
>
> Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
> tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
> off.
>
> No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
> vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
> at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
> have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
>
> You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
> has a really bad reputation.
>
> My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
> emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
> into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
> recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
> colors!
>
> I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
> emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
> un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
>
> I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
> that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
> government doesn't get, eh?
>
> That is theft.
>
> Mike
03-06-2004, 04:59 PM
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
mike you are still missing the whole point of my original post!
but you need to really read the fine print of the purchase contract/ warranty
paper work when buying a new car. esp lease paper work regardless who makes it,
they all say we the manufacture can and will void parts or all your warranty if
necessary and once you sign the paper work you agreed to their terms of that
contract. regardless of what the law states and that makes it legally binding and
that's the point i was trying to make, that you can't seem to get !
stupid ------- ------- do you get it now!
Mike Romain wrote:
> cactuscowboy wrote:
> >
> > If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> > has worked hard to earn it.
>
> Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
> tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
> off.
>
> No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
> vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
> at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
> have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
>
> You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
> has a really bad reputation.
>
> My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
> emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
> into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
> recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
> colors!
>
> I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
> emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
> un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
>
> I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
> that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
> government doesn't get, eh?
>
> That is theft.
>
> Mike
but you need to really read the fine print of the purchase contract/ warranty
paper work when buying a new car. esp lease paper work regardless who makes it,
they all say we the manufacture can and will void parts or all your warranty if
necessary and once you sign the paper work you agreed to their terms of that
contract. regardless of what the law states and that makes it legally binding and
that's the point i was trying to make, that you can't seem to get !
stupid ------- ------- do you get it now!
Mike Romain wrote:
> cactuscowboy wrote:
> >
> > If a mechanic works 40 hours and gets paid for 80 hours, he deserves it and
> > has worked hard to earn it.
>
> Yup, then this 'hard working' ------- calls up Daimler Chrysler and
> tries to get peoples warranties removed because the customer pissed him
> off.
>
> No matter that the law in the USA states the dealer cannot void a
> vehicle warranty because the owner put a lift on or because they got mad
> at the stealership's mechanic. He got them black listed so now they
> have to sue to get what they rightfully paid for and are owed.
>
> You have picked a tough job to do there cactus, because your industry
> has a really bad reputation.
>
> My local Stealership tried to charge me for 4 different tries at
> emissions while tossing expensive parts at it rather than put my Jeep
> into the computer to find out the main emissions component was under
> recall. Fix the 'free' recall and gee guess what, I passed with flying
> colors!
>
> I then also realized they were illegally charging me taxes on the
> emission test and raised some ----. They gave me my money back on the
> un-needed tests just to shut me up and make me go away.
>
> I wonder how much more money they have point blank stolen from people
> that don't read the invoices?? Tax money they collect that the
> government doesn't get, eh?
>
> That is theft.
>
> Mike